Is this not the same project as the one that runs PlayStation through a translation layer? In that context once the libraries hit 100% it should be able to play any PlayStation game 100%
Not necessarily. Having full translations just means we know how to translate the native PS5 system calls into native PC system calls and vice versa.
Even once that's done, there will still be a lot of optimization to go to make sure that the emulation is stable and has sufficient performance to actually play games on.
Consider it like this. Just because you have a French to English dictionary that has 100% of all words translated in it, that doesn't mean you can go to France and just start conversing with people like a native speaker. It's a slow process of translation back and forth and you're going to miss tons of nuance of casual speech that your dictionary isn't going to tell you. Just because you have all the words doesn't mean you have all the sentences. There's still a lot of work to go before you can converse at a normal pace with someone.
Thanks for this comment! I've been watching from the sidelines; happy for them and the job they're doing, but also simultaneously having no idea what's actually going on, this helps explain it to my dumb dumb brain
Well I guess only because something has been covered and translated doesn't mean it is a perfect implementation. I guess at 100% you would be able to run most games from start to finish but this says nothing about how performant these implementations are either.
This is especially true of emulation projects, SNES emulation was good enough that almost everything was playable in 2000 but BSNES was still not 100% accurate 20 years later.
It doesn’t mean that this project is 87% complete or that 87% of PS5 games are playable etc.
In meetings with people who for whatever reason need analogies to understand simple things, I generally express this as “the top speed of a Corvette that is 93% of the way through the assembly line is still ZERO MPH.”
It’s reverse engineering the game’s compiled binary, not the PS5 itself. They infer the functions, pointers, structures, and libraries from the binary, symbols, SDKs, and other available information. Probably something like IDA to decompile the files.
It's a representation of the amount of resources on the PS5 that have been emulated.
It may be that the last 13% is far more important and/or difficult than the prior few 13%s, but it's a useful metric for how far the collective has gotten.
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u/MiniDemonicJust random stuff to make this flair long, I want to see the cap8d ago
I'm expecting rules for thee not for me laws getting passed over this. Only corporations and rich people are allowed to steal copyrighted works to train their AI models.
You will be buying a mere shell, that streams the games from a cloud.
I really don't understand why people keep peddling this idea. Gaming companies benefit the most when you can play as much as possible, and cloud gaming is egregiously expensive for them to run. Of the big three console makers, only Microsoft is even remotely capable of running cloud gaming at scale, and even they just had to introduce usage caps to limit how much cash they're burning.
Trying to charge the tiny fraction of willing gamers $100 per month for all the cloud gaming usage they need is going to net far less revenue per month than letting people play games on their own consoles. Even if there's a future in which compute becomes much cheaper, it's all just going to get funneled towards AI anyway.
Anyone working on any fan made games / remakes / ports / decomps / emulators, etc, should learn from that classic PSA video from 10 years ago. they need to keep it a secret and "Shut the fuck up until is released.
Him having "how much you need to shut up" be the X-axis and "how sick your fan game is going to be" on the Y-axis just seems wrong. Independent variable (game sickness) on the X-axis, dependent variable (shut up levels) on the Y-axis.
Switch 2 hasn't been jailbroken yet, which is why no one is seeing progress. It has a more difficult to defeat security architecture than PS5 too for several reasons.
early switch 1 consoles had the volnurability to do paper clip method to boot console in some special mode and then push custom firmware, newer switch 1, switch lite, switch oled need a chip to load cusotm firmware on boot. from what I have seen no one has cracked switch 2 to be able to load custom firmware and do fun stuff . there are subreddits dedidated to switch hacks
The problem with the Switch 2 is its architecture. Unlike the PS5 and Xbox Series X, it doesn't use the same foundation as a PC. This means having to build out an emulation layer.
Sony and Microsoft are essentially running custom AMD hardware (Zen 2 and RDNA 2) on the exact same x86_64 architecture we use on our PCs. Because those CPU instructions are already native to our machines, you don't need a heavy emulator translating everything in the background. AnyPS5 works a lot more like Wine over on Linux. Taking the original game code, strips Sony's wrapper off, and swaps out proprietary system calls for ones the PC understands.
The Switch 2, on the other hand, is built on ARM. Your PC can't run that code natively, meaning an emulator actually has to sit in the middle and do the heavy lifting to translate every instruction.
Yes, but ARM JIT is extremely mature at this point. CPU emulation is literally a non-issue. The holdup for Switch 2 is more gated behind reverse engineering the firmware, GPIO addresses, memory controller, graphics card and drivers. Everything but the cpu essentially.
Dynarmic could most likely emulate a switch 2 cpu right now
Sony needs to start “feeling comfortable” with this, just like gamers apparently need to start “feeling comfortable” with not owning the games they buy.
I'm already pre-coping by just assuming they will quietly stop mentioning it and then eventually pretend that a PC release was never a thing at all, like they did with the single player DLC for GTAV.
Naw.
The plan is to force a double/triple dip situation.
Release at tail end of gen. Re release for next gen and also pc.
Some ppl will either buy current console and pc later. Or current console and then next gen.
Its all counting on fomo and lack of patience for certain gamers.
PlayStation announced that they'd be discontinuing physical discs and it's been varying degrees of chaos on different fronts.
Couldn't have happened to a better company, and that's coming from a diehard PlayStation owner. The only other way that would bring comparable schadenfreude would be if this happens to Nintendo (t's only a matter of time for them)
I'm not even any sort of die hard fan. I've been playing since the original NES. These companies lose their minds whenever they're #1 for the generation and start getting incredibly anti-consumer.
This is so true. I believe they're run by shitty people to begin with. Being #1 gives them the courage to enact their evil desires. Happened to Xbox, then Nintendo, then Playstation.
Also, Sega never got to show us their evil side because they were never #1, but you can tell they were run by shitty people too because they ran the Phantasy Star games with a fuck you attitude towards paying customers.
I mean yeah but it'd be nice if it did, y'know? Plus you can still get them apparently but.. yeah. I think it's a bit different for console games since consoles have always been meant as a "Home entertainment system" where PC has always been a lot more than that. PC isn't just for gaming, you can code, make 3D models, do job stuffs, etc etc.
Consoles are meant specifically for gaming though, and so getting rid of disc production is much more of an issue there. I mean, you used to be able to give your friend a game of yours to play or sell discs you don't use anymore, that kinda thing. You still can, mind you, but Sony wants to kill that. A big part of gaming for many is community, and I know everything is heavily digital now, but having physical media is just good overall, ESPECIALLY for video games. In an age where companies say you don't own the game, and are constantly charging more and more for less and less quality, it feels more important than ever to not allow them to corner the market for their own games.
Physical media good, it should still be a thing for PC and it's sad it's not, but that doesn't mean it's good to remove from everything else too. Just because one thing sucks, doesn't mean we need to make all the other things suck too just to balance it out. We should improve everything else instead
It's not the same, expecially when you compare pricing. Even newly released games are a fraction of the cost on pc. Before the game premium was understandable because you got physical disks which you could potentially resell. Now you have neither, it was all just to kill the resell market so they can make more sales.
That campaign was always funny, because yes, the fuck I would download a car if I could 😂 same goes for a PS5 (especially with them saying that their games aren’t coming to PC, I wanna play the new GoW game when it comes out)
If you use eyes you can see left column is libraries of ps5 code developers use to make game. Right column is the logic the GPU use to render game. All of it makes PS5 brain!
The more green blocks that are filled, the better AnyPS5 is at translating operating system calls in windows or Linux into a format that PlayStations own operating system can understand.
Using an ELI5 analogy, think of your gaming system be it PC or console like a restaurant. The kitchen being your hardware, (CPU GPU, Memory etc). The Head chef that runs the show being your operating systems kernel (the beating heart of your operating system that makes all the calls). And each piece of software running on your system such as a game is like the customers dining at that restaurant.
The green and grey blocks are your operating systems libraries. The libraries can be thought of in this scenario can be thought of as the waiters that take the customers orders into the kitchen. Now the waiters don’t need to know exactly how to prep the food, or cook it in the fashion required with all the ingredients going into the dish in the exact amounts at the right heat and the right timing. The head chef already knows all of those details. All the waiter has to do is write down the name of the order and head to the kitchen.
Windows in this scenario can be thought of as an English only speaking restaurant where all the customers that walk in only speak English, and the wait staff serving them is also English speaking only. Now in walks a native PS5 game customer that looks really hungry but only speaks Japanese. None of the wait staff can understand a single word the Japanese guy is saying and so cannot carry any of those instructions into the kitchen. Those English only waiters are the grey blocks.
What AnyPS5 is doing is when the Japanese guy walks in is instantly shoving the English speaking waiter aside, taking the order in Japanese, and then heading to the kitchen to give the order to the head chef in perfect English. The Instant translating waiters that jump in front of the English only waiters are the green blocks.
It's not an emulator, it's a compatibility layer. It kind of just translates messages between the game and the machine that's running it, without emulating low level hardware behavior.
Think of Wine and Proton for Windows and windows-based software compatibility for Linux. This is the same but for PS5-based software on Windows/Linux.
Technically it will never be absolutely 100% the same speed (there's more code involved in each instruction call), but it can get close enough to it that it doesn't matter. Just see how most games running under Linux via Proton (a silmilar project) have the same performance that when running under Windows.
So, in the end, if this matures enough, the emulator won't be needed, and you'll be able to just run PS5 games on PC semi-natively.
please someone correct me if im wrong, but like... a couple of weeks ago, they barely could run a game into the emulator, now they can run games at 16 FPS, stable, so probably when all squares = green, the emulator will be even performing better! from that point, it's optimization and improve what the previous state was, in a loop, so yeah... expect better performance in the weeks to come
edit: and funny, probably sony is right now having a board meeting with lawyers to address this, but shit is moving SO FAST, and corporate decisions are pretty slow, by the time they come up with an action, the emulator probably will be in a state completely improved, and more forks, and more private repos running, it’s so over for them
Can't make this happen without a dump of the game which at this point of time we're incapable of getting. The only exploit that would've allowed of us system access to dump games on the latest firmwares was reported to Sony and is already partially patched. By GTA VI's release it will be fully closed. You can thank AI for this.
As a store exclusive game jailbroken consoles capable of dumping games will no longer be able to access the store due to the required version being too low meaning it's not possible for us to dump the game. No dump = no play.
Complicated question. Assuming the emulator is purely reverse-engineered, then no. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Sony engineers are combing through and looking for any cases where AI might’ve unintentionally stolen code. Sony can also issue takedown requests that, while fraudulent, could still affect development and distribution.
No because all games rely on these libraries being consistent. However, system software 14 doesn’t have an exploit yet, which would make it currently impossible to extract the GTA VI binary and decrypt disc games released afterwards. I would be curious if Sony uses this as a legal argument that all emulated copies of GTA VI must be pirated, and therefore emulating the game is piracy. I don’t think it would hold up.
The other guy is bullshitting you. Sony can certainly try to take it down. They don't need to win any judgement either, just threatening the owner is often enough
Sony can absolutely change their compiler target so this doesnt work anymore. In not sure how ps tool chain is distributed, but if it supports some kind of software update, they can change this for every new game without making it much harder for actual devs
More, they can make the next version of their compiler much harder to do this. There are quite a few obfuscation techniques so this kind of translation is no longer so straightforward
You're not no. If you've followed the scene you'd know the only exploit we're aware of that let us dump games is already partially patched and will be fully patched by GTA VI's release date.
Remember, GTA VI is a store only title and exploitable consoles capable of dumping it will not be allowed to access the store to download it on release day. I'm not sure where you're going to get a copy of a game from when we don't have any methods to be able to dump it. There's a reason why they wanted to keep this exploit secret until GTA VI released but someone had to go ahead and ruin it.
I don't own a ps5 but do know this was possible in earlier consoles.
But what is stopping people from downloading the game on launch into an external drive, plugging that drive into the jailbroken ps5 and then trying to dump it that way? Even if it won't let you play it the files should still be there.
I think you'd still have issues as that old firmware can't decrypt the game that requires the newer firmware. However, I imagine more than one person is sitting on an unpatched exploit that may still work on whatever version GTAVI requires. The recent exploit was only released because Sony had patched it.
I also remember backporting newer games to old firmware versions being a thing for PS4, and I'm not totally sure how that was done. Maybe it was done by groups that had unreleased current firmware exploits. I am 90% sure this shit will get leaked fairly quickly.
Yeah, because everyone knows you can just eliminate software from the internet. Nintendo shut down Yuzu and then nobody emulated the switch ever again the end /s
Almost. Because GTA VI isn’t on physical. The only way to get a game dump is by having it downloaded from PS Store to a jailbroken PS5. Ain’t no way we’re getting that for release, and any jailbroken console gets banned faster than you can spell GTA6, as soon as you try connecting to PSN. But let’s hope for a jailbreak soon after the release.
It’s not that hard:
AI ruining big evil corporation = good
AI ruining poor people = bad
It’s the same as how many people enjoyed the “Mangione solution” to predatory healthcare but wouldn’t be ok with him shooting a poor innocent old lady.
It's not that simple though. For example I've seen dozens of free, useful and well-designed utilities, open source, written to perfectly fine coding standards - with AI - being roundly denounced and rejected for being "AI slop". The bar isn't as low as ruining poor people, in fact it seems to be slightly below "ruining big evil corporation". I think that's hypocritical.
I do think people go very overboard with the AI slop branding. To me its just a tool. A tool is not malicious or benevolent on its own. It can be used maliciously, and it can be used benevolently.
Is it really that different if the only fundamental change is who this is happening to?
The technology being used is the same, and if the distaste for AI is based on the inherent nature of it being AI - the reactions should theoretically be consistent.
u/Ser_DanksalotTower 200, 7800X3D, Zotac Ex Airo 4080, Corsair DDR5 32Gb6000Mhz8d ago
Yes. Not only is the hardware of a PS5 PC based but PlayStation's operating system runs on a proprietary version of a PC operating system called FreeBSD. All AnyPS5 does is translate operating system calls on Sony's FreeBSD based OS into a format that either windows or Linux can understand.
I was also confused but after reading for a few minutes I've learned that AnyPS5 is a bit of software on your computer that will let you play PlayStation 5 games on your PC.
What makes it special is that it's not an emulator, so your computer won't have to waste valuable processing power coding/converting/casseroleing.
Only on the CPU side. The GPU side still has to translate all instructions from the PlayStation API to Vulkan. That’s why we see major performance loss, but also a rapid rate of developers improving performance.
Technically speaking this is actually less complicated than older emulators since the ps5 and Xbox series are basically just PCs with special UI underneath, just took a while to get access to ps5 jailbreaks and from there it’s more or less just ai writing a middle man
So. i'm a layperson, what does this bunch of blocs and whatnot i'm looking at mean?
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u/Ser_DanksalotTower 200, 7800X3D, Zotac Ex Airo 4080, Corsair DDR5 32Gb6000Mhz8d agoedited 7d ago
The more green blocks that are filled, the better AnyPS5 is at translating operating system calls in windows or Linux into a format that PlayStations own operating system can understand.
Using an ELI5 analogy, think of your gaming system be it PC or console like a restaurant. The kitchen being your hardware, (CPU GPU, Memory etc). The Head chef that runs the show being your operating systems kernel (the beating heart of your operating system that makes all the calls). And each piece of software running on your system such as a game is like the customers dining at that restaurant.
The green and grey blocks are your operating systems libraries. The libraries in this scenario can be thought of as the waiters that take the customers orders into the kitchen. Now the waiters don’t need to know exactly how to prep the food, or cook it in the fashion required with all the ingredients going into the dish in the exact amounts at the right heat and the right timing. The head chef already knows all of those details. All the waiter has to do is write down the name of the order and head to the kitchen.
Windows in this scenario can be thought of as an English only speaking restaurant where all the customers that walk in only speak English, and the wait staff serving them is also English speaking only. Now in walks a native PS5 game customer that looks really hungry but only speaks Japanese. None of the wait staff can understand a single word the Japanese guy is saying and so cannot carry any of those instructions into the kitchen. Those English only waiters are the grey blocks.
What AnyPS5 is doing when the Japanese guy walks in is instantly shoving the English speaking waiter aside, taking the order in Japanese, and then heading to the kitchen to give the order to the head chef in perfect English. The Instant translating waiters that jump in front of the English only waiters are the green blocks.
In simple words taking the existing code modifying some part of it, keeping the core working or tech same is known as Fork of a project.
Like SuYu is fork of Yuzu
Big corpo doesnt care whether they have legal ground, they can shut anyone down by throwing so much stuff at them that eventually their opponent cant handle it anymore and folds. Ofcourse they will pay a hefty price to bruteforce their opponent into submission, thus they wont go for small fish usually.
For example Sony didn't win the Bleem case a long time ago, but they did bankrupt the company with legal fees.
Not counting the lawsuit they actually won, Nintendo was also able to slow down Switch emulation progress by threatening expensive lawsuits.
Modern consoles have a lot of security features and circumventing then can open you up to potential lawsuits. Even if you might win there's no way most individuals could afford to fight it.
In fact, they tried this back in the 90s with Virtual Game Station and Bleem, and it was literally those exact lawsuits that set the precedent for the legality of emulators in the first place.
It's too late. It's open source github. If they close this down, 2 more will appear. And because they make progress this fast, it's not like they will set them back any meaningful amount.
Each of the boxes is a different "feature" of the PS5's hardware. The green boxes mean that the feature is emulated 100% correctly. So the system libraries being 87% complete means that 87% of the functions work correctly. This basically means the emulator is 87% complete, but "functional" does not mean "well-optimised."
its better than that: it's not actually emulating: its a program that runs through a games binaries, rewrites previously-ps5-system-calls into windows/vulkan calls, then packages it all back up nicely into an exe! no weird programs in the background acting as middlemen... in theory it outputs just another ordinary program
the difficulty before came with the shear complexity and time required of writing a program to perform thousands of small corrections, fixes and adjustments to align ps5 apis with windows/vulkan apis... but now its possible to spawn hundreds of claude agents to solve all those tasks at scale
People act like this only happened because of no discs.... This legit happens to every damn console. Piracy, jailbreaking been going on for decades. Would have happened regardless. Ai tools just kinda helped make it quicker this time
Every OS and most complex software is built of several parts - some of such are combined into libraries. A library combines functions that do a certain thing. For instance, libkernel handles access to the controller, the SSD and the RAM.
The more libraries are ported/converted/adopted, the more "better" AnyPS5 becomes.
This is obviously a very rough surface explanation - this actually goes quite deep...but I hope it helps. :)
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u/Far-Interest2045 Desktop 9800X3D 9070XT 8d ago
I am invested in this PlayStation drama, but what does it mean 87%? 87% of PlayStation OS has been emulated ?