r/SubredditDrama • u/Arvydas_Saboner • 10h ago
"Heterosexual sex is patriarchal and phallocentric." r/AntiSex ponders the question of why women would ever want to have sex.
I am stealing this brief description of r/AntiSex from this drama post a few years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1axl71h/the_systematic_persecution_of_antisexuals_an/
r/antisex is a very bizarre, small, isolated, but rather active subreddit that is against sex in all/nearly all its forms. Most of its users are asexual so it's best to conceive it as a sort of asexual supremacist subreddit, although there are a few (presumably unwell) “sexuals” in there too. I highly encourage you to check it out for yourself, it’s quite the rabbit hole.
Here is also a link to the subreddit's FAQ: https://www.reddit.com/r/antisex/comments/tanu5c/faq_for_newcomers/
The subreddit's sidebar description is as follows:
A subreddit for the discussion of antisexuality/antisexualism.
Antisexuality is the broad class of ideas that oppose sex and sexuality. Notable related examples include sex-negative feminism, the anti-porn and anti-prostitution movements, voluntary celibacy, and some sex-repulsed asexuals. This is not an incel space.
This sub is intended as a space for developing anti-sexual philosophy, and a safe space for those that are sex-repulsed.
Now for the drama. I've bolded some of the particularly juicy bits that might make for a good flair:
Why would heterosexual women have sex?
All sex is nasty, but sex between a cis man and a cis woman is the ultimate act of power imbalance. Women have everything to lose and very little to gain. The mere act symbolizes humiliation and even masochism. A woman gets stabbed repeatedly in her orifice by a dirty, grotesque appendage. The orgasm gap is a well-documented fact. Add to that the risk of pregnancy and the innumerable types of STDs (so many women have STDs and they don't even know it). Why on earth would a woman have sex?
.
Because they enjoy it? 😭
Honestly I agree with you even though I hate the whole thing and it disgusts me. It shouldn’t be hard to understand that people do specific things because they enjoy it.. so I don’t get the replies here.
I find it incredibly ironic that users in a subreddit dedicated to an extremely uncommon view of sex one that many outsiders would look at and think, "there must be something wrong with these people" are so baffled by the idea that others might genuinely enjoy things they don't.
Apparently we're supposed to dismiss women's own experiences when they say they enjoy sex. It can't possibly be sincere, there must be some conspiracy, social conditioning, or other nefarious explanation at work.
I am not baffled by the idea that MEN enjoy sex. I specifically asked about women. Women don't reach an orgasm with penetrative sex. You, like all men, desperately want to believe that we crave dick and that we live to take dick in our vaginas. That is not true.
I love how you are here arguing about something you clearly have never researched or looked into in any meaningful way.
Heterosexual sex is patriarchal and phallocentric. I'm a woman and I don't like penetration. It's degrading, invasive and overrated.
Thanks for letting me know your opinion on this. You are allowed to not like something most heterosexual women like.
Most don't, they just do it to please the man. If you ask them, you'll notice that a lot of the "pleasure" they get from penetration is psychology. The vagina only has nerve endings in the entrance because that's part of the clit. Actually, penetration should not be the main focus when it comes to women.
Just a reminder for the 15th time in this thread, the majority of women report enjoying penetrative sex.
This is a fact. You are factually wrong.
Before you say:
"Its a conspiracy, my vibes and feelings tell me they are liars!!! They are just saying they enjoy it, but they actually dont! Trust me bro!"
I dont care what your vibes and feelings tell you about what other women think.
They report that because of the psychological aspect, but anatomically, a phallus is not needed for women's pleasure. At all. And the psychological aspect and engagement is because women have been socialised to like penetrative sex. We have been expected to like penetrative sex. And due to patriarchy, we are psyched into believing we like it. But penetration is and will always be for men's enjoyment.
Bro, I’m an asexual man and your arguments against her are literally proving her point. I don’t disagree that women like heterosexual sex but the reason they bring up for it is usually a) the ✨experience✨ and b) the "pleasure" of pleasing the man and being wanted. Be serious dude, if you were told that you gotta eat out your wife all your life and only get your balls simulated in return, yeah, your balls are gonna feel good but would you really be enjoying it and wanting to stay in that relationship if you never reach orgasm? No, realistically most men don’t say shit like sex is for the experience and the orgasm isn’t the end goal but women do because they will be having penetrative sex all their lives and this does show that women are conditioned for penetrative sex. You would never do that because you ain’t conditioned to.
No. Orgasm gap.
I know plenty of straight women who say they have orgasms during sex with men. I’m a lesbian who’s never had one with a partner and likely never will. The orgasm gap is a statistical analysis of data, not a reflection of every woman’s lived experience.
Irrelevant to my point.
That doesn't mean every woman doesn't orgasm.
People still enjoy sex even without an orgasm.
Being unsatisfied with many of your sexual encounters doesnt mean you don't enjoy sex.
Its a literal fact that a majority of women report that they enjoy sex lol.
This must have been written by a man.
Genius level response.
I know its hard to think outside your own worldview, but a majority of people do in fact enjoy sex.
Most women complain that the sex is dirty and nasty. Most men are unattractive anyway and their appendage is nasty.
.
Because what most people dont know is sex has more biological reasons other then to have kids. Sex Removes harmful mutations and slows their buildup In other words sex helps the prevention of cancer
Sex promotes DNA repair and genome maintenance. Sex is one of only a very ways for us to fix our damaged DNA. mind you, damaging your DNA is as easy as being deficient on vitamin b12 or vitamin b6.during sex lost DNA segments are getting reloaded and deletions restored. Its a lot lile data recovery on a computer.
Sex helps to expell overproduced cortisol. Cortisol is the hormone thats the reason why too much stress will eventually be deadly. When we are stressed we produce WAYYYYY too much of it with not a lot of ways to get rid of it again. But during sex we expell a lot of it
Sex helps balance brain chemistry aka helps with mood disorders
In short sex maintains genomes, repairs your DNA, strengthens your immune system, balances brain chemistry,helps preventing cancer , expells cortisol and is also a healthy escape from reality.and all of us humans escape reality one way or the other from time to time, sex is at least a healthy way to do so
All made up.
.
I genuinely don't understand it. The vagina has to be stretched the first time a woman has sex which usually hurts and is painful, even with foreplay and a lot of lube. Then it has to be regularly trained (stretched) to get used to it. Then women don't even orgasm from PIV intercourse. It sounds painful, dangerous and useless all around. I can't imagine it feels good. Maybe women gaslight themselves that it feels good because even they say that they can't orgasm from PIV. But then I seriously wonder what the point even is?
.
It does not feel good. It feels fucking terrible. Like a nightmare that never ends. It’s so painful
Then why do ladies feel they get empowered by sex and stuff?
because it’s a white liberal feminist framework that is meant to mantain structural power dynamics intact and portray intimate proximity with a historical and current opressor as liberation without questioning anything of material substance
.
These comments are NOT it No, sex should NEVER hurt or be uncomfortable the female body is capable of full body orgasms men are just socialised into being selfish and not giving into our needs in bed. Women aren't "doomed" into bad sex. Like be antisex all you want but don't try to make it that all women are meant to suffer during sex, we're not. It's supposed to feel good, amazing even. We can be anti sex without minimising women's bodies
Okay, then explain why the first time always hurts for women even with the most and best prep. Explain why men ALWAYS get off but for women it takes so much "you need a sex partner that's not selfish", "you need to find the right position" blablabla... If sex was that great for women just like it is for men, we should be able to orgasmn as easily as men and orgasm every single time we have sex just like them but we don't.
Could be many reasons such as fear regarding sex, vaginismus, ect
[deleted]
Give me some scientific resources saying women are doomed to pain during penetration. The pessimism here is insane
Keep gaslighting and deluding yourself. Your cognitive dissonance is insane.
Keep staying miserable I guess, meanwhile I'm here enjoying my dildo 👅
I'm not miserable, I'm asexual. Ew. No one wants to know your masturbation stories. Have some decency. WTF are you even doing here then? Are you aware that this is an antisex sub?
.
I am very sex negative but some of y'all very clearly have vulvodynia or vaginismus, and most women do not
I'm an asexual virgin. I don't know what sex feels like. But from a logical and scientific standpoint my view makes perfect sense.
Plenty of women do orgasm from intercourse alone. Women who are not asexual feel an urge for penetration which overrides any initial pain, which isn't perceived the same way pain would be in other contexts in other parts of the body, due to the arousal. And that's IF there is any pain on first intercourse, which there sometimes isn't, and even if there is, it quickly stops occurring.
In short, one large reason most women have sex is because they feel a compelling urge to do it beforehand, and then subsequently they find the activity feels good.
Most women are pressured and coerced into sex in the first place. Do you have proof that proves that pleasure overrides pain?
I know from personal experience & I know that statistically it's unlikely that I am a freak of nature. I don't think my friends throughout life have been lying, either. However, I cannot prove to someone else what physical sensations exist in my own body. This is an example of a truth that cannot be proven, just like I can't prove to you that I thought about elephants yesterday.
So you're saying you experience pain but it is overridden by your pleasure? There is a study that says 95% of women that are sexually active experience pain during PIV intercourse.
No I experienced minor pain the first couple of times.
There are studies that say literally everything
So you admit that you experienced pain the first time(s).
im 37 now, married for 9 years and have kids. I cannot emphasize enough how inconsequential the existence of mild pain the first 2 times is, for non-asexual women.
Pain is pain, no matter how mild it is. Men NEVER experience pain when they have PIV sex. Women still lose, point proven.
Men experience pain with PIV if it is too dry, too tight, or if they pull out too far and reenter at a bad angle and hit a bone. Like, pain bad enough that they will stop at least briefly if not altogether.
That's bs.
No, ask any grown man, or hetero woman
You're more sex-positive than you claim to be.
Nah, sex positivity is all about consent & eradicating shame. I think sexual shame is an important evolutionary adaptation & I do not believe that consent makes sex moral.
.
Penetration is overrated, degrading and invasive.
I genuinely don't understand women who enjoy it and I'm a woman too. From what I've read, it seems like it's mostly psychological and it's sad women have to psych themselves into it to benefit men.
.
There are women who enjoy penetration. In fact, most women enjoy it. It's how humans are still around today.
There's nothing wrong with not enjoying it, but to say "women have to psych themselves into it to benefit men" is lunacy.
Most women do not enjoy it, that's just false. Biologically there is just not enough nerve endings in there. The center of pleasure of a woman is the clitoris. If you're a man, you're deluding yourself into thinking most enjoy it. If you're a woman and genuinely enjoy it, you're part of the minority.
Most women like sex lol. It's ok if you don't, but understand that's a minority position.
Sex =/= penetration. And if we're talking about female satisfaction, lesbians win there.
This is not a very well-informed reply. The clitoris is a surprisingly large organ going from the visible outside part all the way to the vagina (including the vaginal canal), and has way more nerve endings than the sensitive parts of the penis
The clitoris goes around the entrance of the vagina and that's it. It doesn't cover all the vaginal canal. I think you're not that well-informed if you believe it does (and if you're a man, of course you'll look for ways to think that because it benefits you).
The clitoral area sits so close to the anterior vaginal wall, and is so sensitive, that penetration stimulates it either way, and modern sexuology is trying to do away with them being distinct structures instead of an interconnected erectile complex. Or that's what professors teach at universities anyway, but maybe they're misinformed.
Edit: I am indeed a man. I am also gay and have a strong dislike for misinformation.
The anterior vaginal wall is the zone where the G spot supposedly is, which is not usually stimulated by PIV sex. Specially not with a penis, because to stimulate there you need something that curls (a finger is ideal for that because most penises aren't curved, so in fact, a penis is not what would naturally stimulate it). The spot is also supposedly near the entrance, so no big object is even needed. And even then, not all women have sensitivity in that so called G spot. So it is not even a universal thing.
There is literally no anatomical reason why PIV should be the standard of heterosexual sex (besides reproduction). The only reason it is is because it's central to male pleasure and we have lived in a patriarchal society for millennia (but we don't need that anymore and it's about time to get rid of patriarchal constructs). In fact, men and women's centers of pleasure are different and in an ideal and more equal world, penetration shouldn't be expected in heterosexual sex (at least not always and definitely not as the main thing).
.
Women benefit from it too, like, wtf. Do you think women do not feel pleasure? Biology is not mysoginistic, YOU are by saying this
Women do feel pleasure, from the clitoris, not from the vagina (or at least not from all the vagina because the nerves are only at the entrance, so a phallus is not needed at all for feminine pleasure). Patriarchy has socialised women for engaging in penetration because it's what benefits men the most.
You're accusing a social construct of giving people their biology? That very strange. What you all here are doing is finding excuses for your lack of sex drive. It's ok if you are afraid of sex or don't want to have it. But understand that normal people do like and do wanna have it. Live and let live. Otherwise you're not better than the "bigot patriarchy" you supposedly fight against.
Biology says the vagina cannal is not the primary source of pleasure for women, the clitoris is. A lot of women have reported they feel nothing during penetration too. And I know you will say "B-But that doesn't mean they don't feel pleasure", true but look at the nature of that "pleasure" from what they report: it points out to psychological pleasure and that... that's actually the result of socialisation and patriarchal influences. Why? Because penetration is the main course of men's pleasure. If women were truly made to naturally enjoy penetration (like men), they would enjoy it physiologically too.
If you're fine with women being influenced by patriarchy to like something just to please men, then congrats, you're fine with patriarchy.
Just gonna drop something here. Not all women are made the same and some naturally have more nerve endings than others. I'm not discounting women who don't feel anything, but it's not like that for everyone and for me it's genuinely pleasurable. And my husband is very woman-focused when it comes to pleasure. Again, I'm not discounting anyone's perspective or saying you shouldn't be anti-sexual, just that your experience is not everyone's and women are not a monolith.
You are confusing orgasm with stimulation. I have trouble having orgasms just from penetration, but DO LOVE penetration and consuming that damn dick’
Yikes you serve men.
My man literally sucks my toes, licks my pussy and if I want to then I eat his dick up! And I feel extremely lustful while doing that
Okay, go be a male-centered elsewhere, this sub is not for you.
OK, I got you. I am in the wrong sub. But I cannot let you speak around fake facts.
It's not a fact, it's your subjective experience. But there is not objective and factual evidence about any anatomical structures that produce that experience and the exact physiological mechanism has not been conclusively identified.
You walk around and tell everyone that having sex as a woman is not lustful for when it comes to penetration, but a lot of women will tell you otherwise. The literal bodied feeling can be very very nice since the penis stimulates the vagina at the edge of the open
Edit: also the feeling inside can be hot as hell. I don’t want to forcefully change your opinion I just want to make sure that a woman who does experience the opposite from what you were talking about, has the right to open up so that you don’t make something up that is not common for most women
It's not common, I know about plenty who don't enjoy it. And scientifically, there is no anatomical nor biological mechanism that has been identified to produce the experience of penetration being pleasurable.
You know plenty and don’t enjoy it, seems like the bubble you are in > antisex. Because I know plenty women who like it. It is not scientifically proven, since it is proven that woman own a lot of nerves on the entry of the vagina and the penis can possible touch that with every move.
Perhaps you're in your bubble because I know plenty of women outside this sub and irl who don't enjoy it. Neither a penis nor deep penetration are needed to stimulate the entry of the vagina.
.
As a man, I have thought very hard about this because it's always the fascinated me that this is something that interests people. It finally dawned on me that straight couples that engage in anal sex are basically engaging in an act of misogyny. Of course, I mean when a male does this to a female.
It is a common lie that women are able to engage in anal sex as the receiver and get pleasure out of it. This is perpetuated by the misogynistic mindset that women are meant to be submissive. It is forcing her to be vulnerable and submissive just to feed his ego. Therefore, is misogynistic. I can't believe I'm 33 years old and I'm only realizing this now
.
[removed]
Likes anal sex...but is an asexual. Interesting.
I'm not attracted to men or women sexually. I have never had sex with a man or woman and never will. So yes I am asexual...
What's that about then? Also, you clearly still experience sexual desire, even have certain sexual preferences. You're not a real asexual. Why label yourself something you're not?
Sexual orientation is which gender(s) you are sexually attracted to. Or in the case of asexuality, it's being attracted to none of the genders. It has nothing to do with libido or preferences on what I do with my own body. If you want to consider me "not a real asexual" go ahead idgaf 😂
You still have not answered my question.
If you experience sexual attraction/sexual desire, you're not different from the rest of the world; You're not an actual asexual. Claiming this label doesn't make you look special.
But they said they literally said don’t experience sexual attraction.
You need to go back and reread my comment.
If you experience sexual attraction/sexual DESIRE, you are not an asexual.
They’ve literally never even had sex before
And? They "literally" still experience sexual desires - even have sexual preferences.
How does someone who has never once had sex, has no desire to, and doesn’t even experience attraction toward anyone, still have sexual desire? I don’t understand how those two things are compatible.
Since you couldn't read the original comment yourself:
I'm a woman and I like anal penetration with a dildo way more than vaginal (which I actually don't like at all).
A dildo is not a human, you cannot have sex with a dildo.
I can't tell if you're doing this on purpose or if you are actually this slow in the head.
Masturbation counts as a form of sexual activity; If you engage in any kind of sexual activity, you are not an asexual. Simple. She said she desires anal penetration over vaginal penetration; That's a sexual preference - That counts as a sexual desire. If you are unable to grasp that in the mush you have up there I don't know what to tell you. But regardless of what you say, she's not a genuine asexual.
**Masturbation is not sexual activity**. If you masturbate alone in your room and then go around saying you just had sex, I would call you a liar.
She doesn’t prefer vaginal or anal sex. She has made it very clear she does not want any sex at all.
What she does prefer is masturbating anally, which is not sex.
So you expect me to believe that it's logical to assume that because biological females only orgasm from penetrative vaginal sex 21 to 30% of the time, that anal penetration is going to have a significantly higher number?
Also, there is no such thing as anal sex done properly. It is an act of misogyny and the objectification of biological females. To believe otherwise shows indoctrination through porn or internalized misogyny
Nothing I said implied that anal penetration would have a higher number. I never made that claim. My point was that vaginal penetration isn't all that great EITHER when it comes to hetero sex.
And yes there is such a thing as PREPARING for anal sex. It involves douching and starting slow and small with tons of lube. Lmao I'm not gonna have a man tell me I have internalized misogyny for enjoying my own body 😂😂😂 It CAN be (and I'd say it usually is) an act of misogyny and objectification of WOMEN especially when it's pornrotted men wanting to do it on their female partner. But it isn't inherently misogynistic.
Do it to yourself is just the same act except that you're not being subjugated, you're self-deprecating. That's all that really means. Now I'm going to assume, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you would say that if a straight couple besides to engage in this act and they take their time with it. They are consenting adults and I do all the research to make sure that the process is smooth and easy for the both of them. Would you say that that is not an act of massage me because they came to a mutual agreement? Or is it only an act of misogyny depending on who started the conversation? Because the way I see it, even if she was the one that started the conversation out of her own curiosity, it's still internalized misogyny.
So you think I'm self-deprecating only if I do anal, but not if I do vaginal? I'm genuinely asking because you seem to think anal=painful, vaginal=pleasure? You said in your original post that "it's a common lie that women are able to engage in anal sex as the receiver and get pleasure out of it" and I'm telling you, as a woman, that's not true and that was my main issue with your post. The truth is SOME women find anal penetration pleasurable, some don't. AND SOME women find vaginal penetration pleasurable, some don't.
For your hypothetical about a straight couple, I don't know. It could be misogyny based. I think vaginal sex could also be misogyny based. I think it should be 100% up to the receiver to decide since they will be the ones most vulnerable and submissive. I do think it's more of an issue if it's the man asking for it. Why do you think if it's the woman who started the conversation it's internalized misogyny? Also do you think it's internalized misogyny if it involves a lesbian couple instead of a hetero couple?
Oh no, vaginal sex is also misogynistic but the difference is that on a biological instinctual animalistic level, it serves a purpose to reproduce the species. And considering that there is degree of hierarchy when it comes to sexual acts, and which ones are more misogynistic than others, because vaginal sex has a purpose that means that anal sex is more misogynistic because it serves no biological purpose. Now if a woman asks to engage in it, it's misogynistic because it's internalized self worthlessness. Even if a straight couple had been together for any amount of time that you can say a considerable amount of sexual trust and communication has been built, even if she were to trust trust him enough that he would suggested, it's still massage me because even if he doesn't want to do it regularly, I suppose it's a sexual curiosity for him, he still engaging in the act of misogyny. As for a lesbian couple, that's a little bit more difficult to quantify
.
Do you really think that there is never any pleasure for any woman when they receive anal sex?
[deleted]
Anal, much like many things, is an acquired taste when it comes to enjoying it. It's something you have to get used to. Initially yeah it's gonna feel like taking a shit. But, much like alcohol, the smell of certain things such as musk, sweat, or weed, or certain foods like hot food, you have to power through the less fun part before you start enjoying it. How it actually works gets into how the brain works.
That said anal is much more fun for gay or bi men than it is for straight couples(aside from pegging, fellas find you a woman who will peg you) as men have a prostate which women lack. Having your prostate poked will give you one of the best orgasms you've ever had. Would reccomend.
Or, here’s a wild idea: some women genuinely don’t enjoy anal sex. They don’t have to get used to it, and many never will. This applies to many other sexual acts.
“Power through the discomfort” the man says to women.
Did... did you just not read my comment? Like I know you're not the brightest but this is just sad. Also my comment was about how ANYTHING that's an acquired taste requires you to power through the AQUIREMENT part. Like good lord please use your brain babe.
It's just sad that you're trying to make this sexist when it's just not. OBVIOUSLY some people just don't like certain things. Duh, no one with two halves of a braincell is disputing that. God it's painful to even have to write that.
When I say you have to power through it I'm speaking from expiriance lmao. I'm a Bi man who has had his prostate poked. It took a LOT of getting used to for it to start feeling good and stop feeling like I was gonna shit myself. But once I got used to it? Best orgasm ever.
I'll repeat myself, I, a man had something shoved up my butt, made myself work through the uncomfortable phase, and now enjoy it because I acquired the taste for it. Holy shit Celatine this is a braindead take even by your incredibly low standards.
Did you not read the post and comments? We’re talking about women engaging in anal sex.
Your comment comes across as dismissive of the reality that not every sexual act is going to be an acquired taste. But you think that anal is an acquired taste.
Some discomforts are just that—discomforts, and no one should have to “power through” something they don’t enjoy. People don’t owe it to themselves or anyone else to push past discomfort. That’s the response to what you were saying. And we’re talking about women, still.
Your personal experience doesn’t matter. People are different.
You clearly lack basic reading comprehension. No one has to power through anything. No one is forcing anyone into anything. If someone is being forced into doing a sexual act they're not okay with that's called rape and that's a bad thing. Duh.
Anal is an acquired taste. Just like alcohol, hot food, and certain smells. But, once again, OBVIOUSLY, not everyone is willing to acquire that taste, and thats not a problem. Most people don't need to have that spelled out to them but apparently you do. I can't stand the smell of weed, I could go out of my way to change that, but I don't want to, so, like a normal person, I'm not going to.
If you can't see why I'm mentioning my personal expiriance then you need to go back to grade school so you can learn how to read. Good lord. Its genuinely painful that you can't or won't understand the point.
Lmao, buddy, you literally wrote in your first comment, “it’s something you have to get used to.” “You have to power through the less fun part”
When we’re talking about women’s pleasure or discomfort with anal sex, your experience as a man is not going to be the same. Did you even know that women are more likely to experience anal sphincter injury when engaging in anal sex? Because they’re not built the same as a man’s.
And it’s not about forcing anyone—it’s about the underlying suggestion that discomfort should be tolerated until pleasure is eventually found.
Some people just don’t want to “acquire” that taste, and they shouldn’t be made to feel like they’re missing out or doing something wrong for not wanting to.
You now say “that’s okay!!11” but you didn’t in your first comment.