r/valheim • u/Handy_Handerson Builder • 18h ago
Discussion Forge of Potential update
So, does that mean no more save scumming?
Guess I won't be interacting with it anymore until they adjust the success rate and/or refund all mats on failure.
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u/Upset-Secretary-4644 17h ago
i just tried it. saved scum 10+ times and failed every time. looks like save scumming is no more or im extremely unlucky.
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u/Common_Function3093 17h ago
could you update this in case you do. If not , thanks for the info
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u/Upset-Secretary-4644 17h ago
tried another 20+ since the comment and yeah its patched. i did have 1 success before all those fails. i think once you hit a fail its over.
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u/notmyworkaccount5 16h ago
I can understand this fight against save scumming it if the idols were craftable or you have a renewable source of them, but to make it "rng" where it hard locks you like this when idols are limited is just so antithetical to the game?
It's a design decision that I think fully justifies cheats/mods to work around.
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u/Scorpio185 Happy Bee 14h ago edited 14h ago
With save scumming, you can also duplicate items, including Idols.
All you need to do is to is fill your inventory with items you want to duplicate, save, put those items into a chest, log out, then go "manage saves>characters" and load the backup of your character.
Now you have the items both in your inventory AND in the chest.
And save scumming isn't something they can fix without taking away access to backups, both in-game and in game files..
Edit: The duplication aspect of it, they could solve by tying the character to the world AND preventing "world hopping", but I don't think they'd do that.
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u/Zeydon 10h ago
Seems like the best fix would just be to make it so players are not incentivized to save scum in the first place (mostly the chance for equipment to break). No real reason for it before the Forge. I've just avoided using it altogether, waiting to see what their final fix for it is. And the OG caps seem fine to me.
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u/Scorpio185 Happy Bee 10h ago
I would make Idols craftable, cap the upgrades from the forge to about quality 10 AND have at least 3 of those forges spawn in the world. Only one forge active, and instead of a chance to break an item, I'd add a chance to deactivate the forge and activate another one.
But yea, I'd take any system which doesn't break the item :)
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u/DunkynTheTerrible 15h ago
kinda shitty for people who play vanilla, anyone who was able to savescum was able to use mods to fix it anyways.
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u/MostlyNoOneIThink 12h ago
Apparently now every item has a hardcoded maximum upgrade. It can never go above that value. The value is random for each item you create.
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u/sho_ffs 10h ago
Do you know how to find that out? I never saved scummed, I just like gambling, and got my staff to level 7, and wouldn't like to lose it is it's already maxxed out. 🥺
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u/gamesterdude 16h ago
How were you save scumming? Like if you backup the file elseware then drop replace surely they can't prevent that?
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u/SharlowsHouseOfHugs 15h ago
I think this may be saving the success chance to the item on a forge use. So instead of rolling the dice on your current upgrade, it's rolling it on your next upgrade. So if you save every upgrade, you've locked in a failure. It could be saving it to the character, not the item as well. So, you'd always be destined to break whatever you upgrade next, like crafting debt but.. with the forge. If so, decoy items would have to be made just to break.
I'm going to play with it tonight. Make 5 copies of the same item, see how far I can take them individually.
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u/Upset-Secretary-4644 15h ago
i was save scumming with the ingame save back up. i play on ps5. might be different backing up the save outside the game on pc.
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u/ph00tbag 16h ago
The devs could wage an escalating war of exploits and patches with their players, or they could make a mechanic people actually want to engage with without exploits.
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u/LunarHentai 13h ago
first time?
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u/average_gwenjoyer 12h ago
Oof didn’t need to remind me of that disaster
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u/emelecfan2048 Encumbered 11h ago
Especially since they just announced a form of transmog, that is only tied to the brand new skins you can buy!
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u/LunarHentai 11h ago
Coincidentally, they released those new skins after lots of discourse in the games community about the growing popularity of cosmetic mods that let you change your armor skins.
Make a problem, sell a solution…
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u/StableManticorePilot 15h ago
But that'd mean they'd have to admit the mechanic was crap from the start and they'll never do that.
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u/Splatacular 13h ago
Nonsense. We intended the drawbridge to not allow the only means of land based transportation thrugh it. Your being silly.
They really seem to be furious people want to play their game its so bizarre.
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u/Gr1mmald Cook 17h ago
How about fixing THE REASON PEOPLE EXPLOIT THAT SHIT
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u/FykDaddy 14h ago
Naah, now it wont return mats neither and just to be sure destroys 1 random item and 1 gets downgrade, and chance for that is now 95% instead of 35% kek
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u/Japoots Sailor 18h ago
I do not see how they could prevent save scumming.
But then again I'm not aware of any other exploits for the forge.
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u/usuallysortadrunk 18h ago
They could make it pre load an outcome. So even if you savescum the outcome has already been determined for the next roll. So maybe you could save scum but youd have to use another object to upgrade to see if its a pass or fail and then save scum again to get the upgrade.
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u/TheExistential_Bread 18h ago
Oh that would be tricksy, but there are ways of gaming that too like you mentioned. Would be funny if they added in a modifier that counted loaded saves and further decreased the success rate by that modifier.
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u/Figorix 17h ago
Just remove the forge at this point. Clearly it's just disconnect point between Devs and players.
Or fucking make it usable without exploits. The only way I use it rn in my casual playthrough is as gear only obliterator
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u/ConstableAssButt 17h ago
> I do not see how they could prevent save scumming.
Saved, seeded PRNG state that only pulls from forge rolls. Still manipulable though. If you savescum, you can know the position of the next PRNG roll and burn up X shitty items until you know a favorable roll is coming. See elite gameplay of Final Fantasy 1. Because of the way that the random number generator works in that game, elite speedrunners have learned to map and manipulate the random number generator.
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u/Sven_the_great 15h ago
Has anyone done testing on it? Is the seed tied to the idol level, the world or the item itself?
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u/Handy_Handerson Builder 18h ago
Same here, idk any other "exploit" other than savescum.
Unless there was supposed to be an upgrade limit?
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u/Petan65 17h ago
Just rework whole idea...make them harder to achieve and make forge without RNG
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u/PineapleGG 16h ago
I mean, the idols are still pretty fucking rare and takes a lot of time to get? The time you spend just on finding them is enough of a drawback for you to not need the RNG involved
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u/Snurgisdr Hoarder 16h ago
That would work for me. At the moment I’m just using the idols for decoration.
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u/Specialist_Tax4265 17h ago
Now more useless than before. I upgraded my shit to lvl 5 and I have no bad feelings about save scumming. Bad design is bad.
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u/wdtpw 5h ago
Why don't they just add an option to the server settings? Play game with random chance of destruction y/n?
I genuinely don't understand the dev's philosophy. What's the downside of giving the user more control? Their artistic vision still exists for those that want it.
If they're bothered by overlevelling items, just put a max on them.
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u/JonPileot 18h ago
Do we know what they are talking about or is it all just speculation?
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u/Handy_Handerson Builder 18h ago
Speculation at this point. What we see in the patchnote is what we have so far.
No extra detail afaik.
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u/Bob_the_peasant 18h ago
Probably something like the chance is progressively calculated off your world seed or character ID. Which won’t change if you reload. Or the idols spawn with their chance… although I guess you could save scum that and have a box of known “bad” idols
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u/TheExistential_Bread 17h ago
It feels like it's security through obscurity tbh. They fixed something but they suspect it's still vulnerable so they won't release details. We won't find out till the moders and data miners figure out the change.
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u/jjman2313 15h ago
I fucking knew they would patch save scumming lmao the second people started saying it should be more lenient I knew the devs would go in the complete opposite direction
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u/IceEnvironmental2630 Miner 16h ago
i guess i will be using mods now to get my level 100 wooden club
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u/ardotschgi 17h ago
Sometimes the devs make decisions that just seem like a joke... The entire forge itself was already a joke, but if they seriously predefined the breaking point, instead of making the forge useable in the first place, that's just sad.
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u/DreisterDino 16h ago
I'm just baffled by their decisions at this point.
Like, they even added unique glows up until level whatnot (was it item level 20, 30?) but it seems their only concern is to make sure noone will ever get there.
Addressing any of the feedback regarding the forge? No, it seems the only takeaway for them was the fact that some people found a way to reach high levels, and that must be prevented of course.
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u/Nuggetsofsteel 14h ago edited 13h ago
IronGate has developed the game with a slight level of hostility towards the players for quite some time.
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u/LovesRetribution 13h ago
Slight?
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u/Nuggetsofsteel 13h ago
Yeah it might be a bit more than slight, but it's sort of contemptuous rather than directly hostile.
I think the easiest way to define IronGate's folly is that they disagree with the fundamental truth of game development: Players are generally very bad at identifying how to fix an issue, but they are very good at identifying the existence of an issue. IronGate says no, we will have our cake and eat it too, you know nothing o' playerbase.
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u/GamersOnlydotVIP 10h ago
Their arrogance is astounding. It's a miracle that this game hasn't been ruined by their hubris
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u/Culsandar 13h ago
BSG did the same thing with tarkov, until they figured out they make way more money not doing that. Now nearly half the game's population plays PVE (a more casual way to play).
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u/InspectorFadGadget 9h ago
Remember when people were mad that "cheated" items (even when they weren't cheated in) were contaminating the tags of all other items if they were in the same stack? So the devs' "solution" was so that "cheated" items were not able to be stacked with other items. Instead of actually getting rid of that stupid fucking tag that never worked properly anyway. They rolled THAT update back quickly though, so it does seem like they can grasp logic, but are usually just allergic to it.
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u/nerevarX 17h ago
"we fixed useless shit on our useless gacha rng forge"
aka the devs just wasted some time on something that most people wont use normally ever.
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u/Sliced_Potato27 15h ago
Damn I’m glad I upgraded at least some of my stuff. I think all this is going to do is make literally no one use the forge. They should make it cost an increased number of idols each upgrade to get to a 100% success rate. I am failing to recall the name, but some other game I played had a similar upgrade mechanic and the way it worked was each material (or idol) in this case increased your success chance up to 100% at maximum.
Ie lvl 1 requires 1 idol and has a 100% success rate
Lvl 2 using 1 idol gets you a 75% success rate but 2 gets you to 100%
And on and on. Simple. No clue why they didn’t do that to start. I love this game and think the devs mostly do a good job but this whole forge was the biggest load of crap I have ever seen
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u/Handy_Handerson Builder 14h ago
I think Tainted Grail: Fall of Avalon had an upgrade system like that. Haven't played it in a while, can't rmmbr for sure.
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u/molpylelfe Builder 14h ago
I vaguely remember Forsaken World had a mechanic like that, where you could upgrade your gear with gems. The more gems, the higher the chance of success, and each level used an increasing amount of increasingly rare gems to get to a decent probability. Functionally made it so only cash shoppers could get max level gear, but everyone could at least get to mid-levels
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u/LTSmash420 13h ago
Yeah, what's up with all these stacks of deep north gems i have sitting around? (I could sell them and make more gold piles I guess)
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u/-Aces_High- 16h ago
Nothing about the forge unlocking a hundred recipes though.....
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u/Spicyhandholding 16h ago
I love that this is what they fixed lol.
The suffering Olympics will now resume.
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u/squidvett 16h ago
Have the devs for this game ever changed anything because the community thought it was bullshit? Have they ever changed anything because of community feedback?
I’ve been playing Valheim a lot since it went early access and I can’t think of any time the devs yielded to complaints about the game not being fair.
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u/NostalgiaInLemonade 16h ago
They nerfed the Ashlands hard shortly after release
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u/infidel11990 15h ago
And it got nerfed again I believe for the 1.0 release. The spawn settings were toned down.
I played Ashlands when it was originally released and the first landing was like a battle field with our corpse markers littered across the map. It was so difficult to get a foothold. But was also some of the most fun we had.
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u/YumAussir 12h ago
They have done that, yes. That said, the attitude they project is that they do it with kind of a pissy attitude. They seem to have a vision of a much more hard-core difficulty than most players tend to want and resent when people don't align with it.
I mean just look at the console command to enable achievements.
And I'm someone who generally enjoys the difficulty! I don't activate increased resources, I've always played on Normal (the intended difficulty), yadda yadda.
Some things in the game just aren't fun though. And usually it's little tedious things. Like the game nowhere tells you the minimum distance required between planted crops, and it gives you no way to ensure you maintain that distance. It just makes you waste seeds. So I use the simple farm grid mod.
And sure, I guess the game is "harder" without it, but there's hard that makes for a good challenge and hard that isn't fun to deal with.
It''s why I haven't been keen on the post-release bosses (the Queen and Fader, haven't done the DN yet). I can handle a tough boss - I've loved Dark Souls and Elden Ring - but these two bosses can basically keep firing abilities at you 24/7, knock you around in the Queen's case, or keep fire around himself 24/7 for Fader, such that there is next to no opportunity to get a hit on them in melee.
And sure, that makes them hard, and I have been able to win by switching to magic, but in my view, that's not good difficulty design. But the devs don't seem to agree when they've made comments on that sort of thing.
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u/FauxGw2 11h ago
But the game isn't hard, it's tedious there is a huge difference.
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u/YumAussir 10h ago
Well that's the distinction I was drawing. I think it's decently difficult in its systems - monsters can be quite dangerous, surviving depends on a system of timed food buffs, the materials needed to progress require more than just one mining trip..
But other parts are tedious, not hard. Having to manually space my crops is tedious. Not being able to take metal through portals - at least previous-biome metals - gets tedious (e.g. why can't I take Tin through portals if I'm progressing the Mountains)? Portals being paired-only is tedious. Having to refill fires and torches with wood and resin is tedious.
I enjoy the difficulty level in the combat and pace of the game's gear progression itself, but don't enjoy the tedium. That's why I mod the tedious parts, but steer clear of changing the fundamental experience.
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u/RanaMahal 8h ago
I’ve basically modded the piss out of Valheim and it instantly become 100 times more fun to play.
Portal mods, building mods, farming mods, etc. I get the devs’ vision for the game but making it less of a slog is so much more fun, and has me playing a lot more than I otherwise would’ve
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u/DreisterDino 15h ago edited 15h ago
Well one thing is for sure, it always felt like you really have to fight for it. It's probably not fair to say that they've never changed anything due to community feedback, but it also appears to always arrive with an "okay, but".
Like inventory. Yes, after 5 years they added more inventory space in the form of buyable slots after a certain point. But it's still not the qol many people wanted to see. Designated slots for your armour was a fundamental part of the feedback, and it wasn't only about the amount of slots you get as a result but simply a clean, user friendly UI that's more easy and convenient to look at and navigate. It's weird that it feels like you have to fight to get something like that. Even in 1.0 i still use an inventory mod, because a big box with everything from gear, loot and consumables in it is not peak design.
I know people tend to dislike enshrouded over here which is fair, it's a different game. But god damn, they released the patch notes for 1.0 and it's huge collection of points addressing player feedback, it literally feels insane after being part of valheim early access. You can dislike enshrouded, but there's no denying that they actually embraced the feedback, tried to understand where the players are coming from and worked with it instead of seeming to work against it. And of course they could still keep their own vision of the game, you don't need to cater to each and every demand some players make. But early access fundamentally is designed to work with player feedback, you can look at the section on steam pages of any ea-game and they say they want to work with player feedback to shape the game. And yes, those words were also part of valheims ea-section. Yet, in valheim it felt like two forces working against each other while in enshrouded it felt like two sides working together.
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u/squidvett 15h ago
All valid arguments. My issue with Enshrouded was the fact that it tells you to build a base at the entrance to the game. And then you get the ability to portal back and forth from anywhere and also use the hang glider to travel. From then on there’s no reason to build a second base anywhere in the game.
Except Enshrouded’s building system is exquisite. Plus the handcrafted world that’s amazing to explore is totally skippable using the hang glider. I couldn’t understand it.
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u/DreisterDino 15h ago
Yeah like I said people can dislike enshrouded since it's a different game with different mechanics. I was mostly talking about how it felt to be part of early access in both of these games.
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u/Thargor33 12h ago
No point to building another base…. ASIDE from finding a really cool area to rebuilt or flat out build on because of the scenery.
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u/Schleimwurm1 4h ago
Exactly! Enshrouded is so weird, because it has the bones to be valheim 2.0, but it is just too (and i hate saying this) "casual".
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u/Far_Young_2666 Fisher 15h ago
Adding difficulty settings to allow turning the game into a walk in the park. I remember how their initial vision was "it's a hardcore game with no compromise" and "there will be no way to portal metals around".
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u/squidvett 15h ago
Ha! I forgot about the stone portals getting added late. Ashlands was kind of a shit show.
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u/Far_Young_2666 Fisher 15h ago
Yeah, and I'm still cautious about Deep North. I mean, I've been waiting for 1.0 for so long, but when it finally came out, I decided to give it more time to cook. Mistlands were nerfed, Ashlands were nerfed, now I watch it waiting for Deep North to get a rework or something.
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u/squidvett 15h ago
Deep North isn’t terrible. It’s already gotten a few adjustments. It has taken the community a few days to figure out some of the mechanics that keep the difficulty from spiraling out of control. It seems super chill at first and then it melts your face but as soon as you figure it out, and you get upgraded, it’s easy like a Sunday morning. Haven’t seen the boss yet, though.
But even grausten build parts from Ahlands seem to scale poorly to the player. I’d never build anything with it outside of ashlands. I don’t see anyone putting their sweet grausten builds on display. At least timber looks good.
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u/FunkyXive 14h ago
you should do the opposite. mistlands and ashlands both got worse with the nerfs, ashlands is now piss easy and mistlands feels very empty, there are just no enemies
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u/Punumbral_Noise 13h ago
Yeah I was noticing the mistlands’ lack of enemies. On a previous play through, it was absolute mayhem- you couldn’t go 100m without two seekers at minimum. There were probably 3x gjall and seeker soldiers. When I check my inventory from that playthrough (same map, different character), I have like two stacks of mandibles. On this one, I’m going well out of my way to even upgrade my weapons, let alone have a surplus.
I feel like that’s a pattern with these patches- an issue finding a good middle ground. The answer to complaints about difficulty/mob volume is not a 90% cut
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u/FunkyXive 7h ago
unfortunately, it's becoming more and more clear, with each update to the game, that irongate made an awesome game by accident, and not because they know what they are doing
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u/throwawaymycareer93 14h ago
- Nerfing mistlands and ashlands
- Adding inventory slots
- Portaling metals
- Difficulty settings and world modifiers
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u/Helldiverticulitis 13h ago
Wait, there used to be FEWER inventory slots?
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u/throwawaymycareer93 13h ago
No. You can buy additional inventory slots at the merchant. This is 1.0 addition.
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u/LovesRetribution 13h ago
Tbf all those changes came after months to years of people complaining.
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u/the_saltiest 13h ago
Stop moving the goalposts. The devs are not the fastest, but their game is art and we have to respect that if there are some things the artist is stubborn about when they are addressing all these other complaints. It ain't bugs--these are stylistic choices. For ex, I think crafting from chests should be in the game, but obviously they don't and it's part of the experience which overall is still the GOAT, even if some elements are becoming outdated at this point.
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u/pacman529 11h ago
While I agree with you for the most part, that doesn't mean they are immune from criticism.
Sure, you can argue that not including crafting from boxes or dedicated equipment slots is a "stylistic choice" on the part of the devs, but what POSSIBLE reason could there be for not adding search/favorite features to crafting menus, the same features they added to the hammer build menu? How did they manage to overlook not being able to mount the final boss's trophy?
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u/the_saltiest 4h ago
I completely agree with that criticism, among others. They aren't immune. But I was responding to a hysterical statement that essentially "the devs have never addressed anything the fans want" (which is just objectively false), and I'm sick of gamers being the most whiny little victims in the planet. It's exhausting. We have enough of it in politics. Edit: syntax
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u/SirDoofusMcDingbat 12h ago
Yes. You've already gotten a good response, but here's another one. Once upon a time, the devs actually removed the ability to stagger archers by parrying the arrows. People complained because they liked doing it, and it was added back in.
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u/squidvett 12h ago
I love the shock and surprise when you block an arrow! Did you see what that guy just did?! 😂
I didn’t know it was ever temporarily removed! TIL
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u/SirDoofusMcDingbat 12h ago
Yeah it was originally unintended, on account of it actually just making no sense. But everyone loved doing it because it was really fun, so it came back. I don't recall how long it took to get added back in but I don't think it was that long.
But yeah I love the idea that the archer is just so blown away by your timing that it just goes reeling. 😂
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u/gameraven13 15h ago
After pulling multiple mouthfuls of teeth, they finally added the absolute bare minimum of world setting sliders and even then I'm surprised they ever caved on letting us send metal through portals tbh. But other than that, no. Not really.
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u/NickRick 14h ago
They have had to decrease the difficulty of both the mist lands and ash lands. They added a portal that been tele metal, and all the sliders.
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u/Tight-Chard 13h ago
Ashland spawn rate, it's basically a joke now compared what it was before(beta and released)
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u/basoon 15h ago edited 15h ago
The world setting slider bars were introduced about halfway into the early access period (maybe a little before half way, I don't recall exactly). Before that, there were no options other than mods to teleport ore and metal, change combat settings, reduce penalty on death, or increase resource rates. All of these were frequent requests you'd see here and other community forums. They also toned down the Mistlands and Ashlands multiple times (to my mild annoyance) because people who were not great at the game's combat were constantly complaining about those two biomes. I loved them as they were, personally.
So yes. They have. The forge is completely optional though, so I suspect that as long as the devs like it how it works, that wont change substantially.
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u/Confident-Skin-6462 17h ago
that's why i have a mod
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u/ComfortableYellow627 16h ago
Which mod?
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u/Confident-Skin-6462 16h ago
'reforged potential'
can't link it at the moment because I'm on the bus :p
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u/VeterinarianDapper78 15h ago
Does the mod still work after this update though?
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u/ipovogel 15h ago
There are several. I did Forge of Certainty because I was able to set the success rate and break rate. So you can for instance leave success rate at 65 and take off break, so it doesn't break the item but still fails 35% of the time.
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u/Bigazzassassin 16h ago
They spend time doing this instead of fixing Deep North boss spawning mini-bosses outside the arena wall.
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u/blacklung710 14h ago
Just added the mod that improves the forge, best decision ever
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u/Handy_Handerson Builder 14h ago
I haven't checked, but I hear there's a few of them. Which one would you recommend?
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u/GHBmihic Explorer 15h ago
Just make it to consume idol if upgrade fails. Destroying gear is dumb.
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u/the_knotso 14h ago
This! That’s perfect. Failure simply means it didn’t upgrade, but the idol is consumed.
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u/Earl-The-Weeb 16h ago
Is there any mention of perhaps improving performace and trying to resolve crashing issues that just seem to still be there? Or just this absolute waste of development time? Like no one needed this kind of fix lol…
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u/ContactMushroom 12h ago
Devs added the most powerful troll in the game.
It serves no purpose other than to laugh at everyone's misery and be a trap for players who never look things up about the game.
Forge of wasted potential is the best name for it.
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u/Aximil985 18h ago
What are they doing, making the game auto-save when rolling to check if it gets destroyed or not?
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u/WeirFoxcoon Encumbered 15h ago
I hope the forge NoFail mod still works for the new version, I never liked how the forge works.
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u/Malignant_Lvst7 Honey Muncher 18h ago
they could make it have a set loss, say 4th spin is guaranteed to break so even save scumming couldn’t work, maybe it re rolls per forge
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u/DanLorwell Builder 18h ago
yup, could be that the roll is pre-defined, thus doing save scum always giving the same result.
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u/piesou 17h ago
So you tell me this got a whole lot cheaper? I just need to build the base item and immediately see to what level it could be upgraded to?
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u/Malignant_Lvst7 Honey Muncher 17h ago
no, if it’s what i’m saying, it’ll be a random number rolled and it could be any number. you have to use idols while save scumming until it breaks and that’s the limit. but they won’t do that, then it’s not actually 33%
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u/Condera0 Encumbered 15h ago
Idk if this was mentioned, but based on the comments it seems the exploit referred to was the save scum method to get a crazy high level. The consensus seems that they made it so the gear item will now always fail on the attempt if it's a failure, even on reload. Has anyone tried dupping the gear item and trying twice in a row to see if it succeeds?
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u/Handy_Handerson Builder 14h ago
Idk how it works, but if the saved outcome is saved on the item and not the character, then wouldn't duping it dupe the outcome as well? Just asking.
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u/Condera0 Encumbered 14h ago
Good point. I may go do some testing myself and report back.
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u/epac2000 13h ago
I play on Xbox and you don't really save scum to exploit it. You just dupe a bunch of idols. Then dupe a bunch of items. And just keep trying to do it normally. So I'm curious to see if it still can be done this way. Its going to be a few hours till I get home to try. Will report back.
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u/Condera0 Encumbered 13h ago
I've been doing some testing the last hour or so and here's what I've determined.
- It does not force a save upon failure/success
The "fix" they implemented seems to carry a predetermined pass/fail on each individual item type. For example, leveling a sword and shield, the sword can fail with the next attempt but not the shield. You can save and reload as much as you want but the pattern will always be that the sword fails and shield succeeds, no matter the order attempted.
The only non-modded way around this seems to be as you said, duping the idols and item to upgrade, only to force the fail chances out. This would be done by duplicating the item to upgrade > Make the attempt > fails then dupe another time and attempt again - succeeds > save and dupe again before another attempt. This method WILL burn more idols, so duplicating those would be required, unless you're fine with the loss of those idols as it (imo) is a fair tradeoff to guarantee the level up.
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u/theUmo 12h ago
Interesting. does the predetermined pass/fail fate dupe with the item? i.e., if a sword is going to fail its upgrade, and I dupe it, and then upgrade fails, is the duped item also guaranteed to fail?
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u/GWB_online 11h ago
Patch it this fast but no changes to how it works. Its obvious they want it to suck lol. No big deal, ill skip it.
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u/ESAcatboy 15h ago
So did this patch save scum, or something else? Save scum was the only way to make this fair.
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u/Skuldafn0 Honey Muncher 13h ago
I have utterly shit luck on the forge of potential and I’ve seen some posts about the actual chances of winning or losing. That being said, it’s optional and because of my shit luck I choose to barely interact with it. I’m not gonna trash talk devs for this because it really isn’t a big issue. (Still want some inventory QOL but that’s just cause I’m spoiled from terraria)
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u/Reasonable-Sun-9881 Necromancer 7h ago
Personally, I think the entire FoP debate could be solved by simply changing it to what was reported at first:
65% success
25% lose level
10% break with half items returned
With this method, a level-1 losing a level to 0 would break it too.
In my mind, that's harsh enough. I mean, once you've cleared out most of the frost caves, you won't be able to get more fenris hair to re-upgrade your fenris set.
And, to make my level-4 crystal battleaxe is 60 silver. Same with a silver sword. That's a STEEP penalty that'll require another boat trip to a NEW mountain to get that silver and then another boat trip to get back home with it. Sure, you can set portal metals, but unless you spawn the stuff in, you still have to go FIND it and mine it.
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u/siberianhaska 14h ago
Tried save scumming today for my trusty frostner until lv 12. It's my first time. Aaand it's patched the same day. Unlucky I guess.
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u/HungryArachnid8899 13h ago edited 12h ago
Duping the item works even if it was from a save scummed item. First one always breaks but the second or third one usually levels up. Uses up a lot of idols though. Save scumming is already cheating anyways so duping the idols should be fine too I guess.
Edit: To be clear I duped a cape twice (so technically I have 4) upgraded them in a row until 1 succeeds then dupe the one that succeeded.
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u/gorka_la_pork 17h ago
The only time I use the Forge of Potential is when I've already outlived a favorite piece of gear, so if it breaks I just make the upgrade since I was going to anyway. It's really not that big a deal to me.
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u/Adefice 14h ago
The devs sincerely don't give a shit about what the players want or if their time is respected. I don't know if I've seen a more obstinate dev team in my life.
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u/EreckShun 13h ago
Honest question, why are people so up in arms about the Forge of Potential? It is an entirely optional mechanic in a game that can be beaten with the weapons and armor provided. The forge seems like a means of burning excess resources if you have them. Why is there so much disdain for it?
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u/Selacha 12h ago
It's because of the fact that it isn't required to beat the game that makes its flaws so egregious. You 100% never need to use it, you can beat every boss and biome without it. It's only purpose is to make a favorite weapon or armor set viable in late-game areas instead of having to discard your preferred items, and then it has a 1/3 chance to punish you for it. They're basically going "Hey, we know how much you love using that Frostner hammer, I bet you'd love it if it were strong enough to give it a go on some Ashlands enemies, right? Well here's a crappy mechanic requiring hard to find/limited resources that has a chance to upgrade your hammer, or destroy it entirely!"
If they just want it as a resource-sink to pad runtime, then either make Idols craftable, or refund the base materials on breakage. It's just a gaacha mechanic for no real reason.
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u/SheriffWoody37 12h ago
they basically added something that no one asked for and no one wanted and did it in a way that no one likes. It was a waste of everyone's time.
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u/NCRNerd 9h ago
Actually the concept is something people wanted: the ability to use a particular weapon type (say... atgeirs) at every biome tier. Theoretically an iron atgeir raised to quality 5, 6, 7 or 8 would be approximately as strong as a theoretical silver atgeir would have been. Then once you hit the Plains you can either keep upgrading the Iron one, or switch to a black metal atgeir.
The problem of course is the whole "and then your sword explodes" roughly a third of the time. At 1/3 chance to lose the weapon most people will just avoid it, except those who don't know, and THOSE players will stop using it as soon as they lose a piece of gear, barring a spectacular run of luck that leaves someone not in the know believing that the Forge has some lower than reality chance of exploding their gear.
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u/Killer1236 13h ago
Optional or not, its a cool concept... but a terrible gambling implementation. So yes, many people just outright never use it. If you add something to your game, then 90% of the player are just avoids it entirely... its a bad addition to the game that needs a major change.
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u/ThisIsntOkayokay Sailor 13h ago
Introduced something NEW that feels broken or made for a Korean gaccha game system.
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u/DesignerLocal3212 12h ago
Honestly the reason the forge is dumb is because the coloured glows you get from upgrading are really cool and go up to 20+ the chances of you rolling a level 20 weapon are so statistically improbable that you are practically better off buying a lotto ticket. (less then 0.0021% chance)
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u/Hiimzap 12h ago
Because it feels like such an unfinished game mechanic. Why put that in like that with the failure chance, it goes against everything valheim was so far and adds some nonsense rng shit into the game when everything was predetermined.
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u/Caridor 10h ago
For my part, it's because the idols replace other treasure. So even if you don't interact with the mechanic, you're still being screwed because you're getting useless idols
And honestly, it's also a mechanic you find in shitty cash grabby mobile games and MMOs because it lets them sell you an item that guarantees your item doesn't break. It is not in any game because it genuinely improves the game.
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u/Competitive_Fun_9722 13h ago
Haven’t even got to play more than 3 hrs boss got me on 65hr wrk weeks can’t wait for winter !
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u/Spoozk 17h ago
Imo best way to fix it is to remove the item destruction chance all together and just make it consume the idol. They're already rare enough as it is, destroying your entire item for a chance to get +5 damage and +50 durability is not even close to being worth it