r/valheim • u/Handy_Handerson Builder • 1d ago

Discussion Forge of Potential update

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So, does that mean no more save scumming?

Guess I won't be interacting with it anymore until they adjust the success rate and/or refund all mats on failure.

297 Upvotes

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0

u/EreckShun 20h ago

Honest question, why are people so up in arms about the Forge of Potential? It is an entirely optional mechanic in a game that can be beaten with the weapons and armor provided. The forge seems like a means of burning excess resources if you have them. Why is there so much disdain for it?

21

u/SheriffWoody37 19h ago

they basically added something that no one asked for and no one wanted and did it in a way that no one likes. It was a waste of everyone's time.

3

u/NCRNerd 16h ago

Actually the concept is something people wanted: the ability to use a particular weapon type (say... atgeirs) at every biome tier. Theoretically an iron atgeir raised to quality 5, 6, 7 or 8 would be approximately as strong as a theoretical silver atgeir would have been. Then once you hit the Plains you can either keep upgrading the Iron one, or switch to a black metal atgeir.

The problem of course is the whole "and then your sword explodes" roughly a third of the time. At 1/3 chance to lose the weapon most people will just avoid it, except those who don't know, and THOSE players will stop using it as soon as they lose a piece of gear, barring a spectacular run of luck that leaves someone not in the know believing that the Forge has some lower than reality chance of exploding their gear.

1

u/Hairy-Thought6679 11h ago

Not quite in line with what your comment says but relevant somehow

We switched our game to creative so i did the only obvious thing and brought many dozens of items to the forge of potential for its blessing. I didn’t do any exact numbers but i can tell you that i know for certain i brought close to if not more than 100 draugr fang bows and by the time it was finished i was left with a single level 12 and a single level 11. Even in creative this took several hours. However it did yield us 3.5 full wardrobe chests of silver so there are some positives to the frustrations

2

u/laserclaus 19h ago

Harsh but true

1

u/RD_White 10h ago

Personally i like the idea of the forge, idk if the success rate is perfect but i pretty much just don't upgrade anything unless i have enough mats for a second item, then i try to level 2 of the same item up at a time so i keep say a level 6 drauger bow when i try upgrading one of them to 7 and it breaks. if it breaks ill level a 3rd one to 6 before i continue to 7.

Think most people are trying to jack their stuff up to insane levels and that's fine but like then your actually risking your stuff.

1

u/D3Masked 17h ago

I feel okay with it. Got my Root Harnesk up to level 7 for 20 armor and still using it in the Ashlands.

1

u/SkwerlMonkey 15h ago

Insanity! Wearing armor that reduces fire resistance to a fire based area.... I like the way you think

4

u/D3Masked 15h ago

Fire Resistant Potions are super easy to make and negate the slight weakness in exchange for the pierce resistance that is useful throughout the game starting from swamp.

1

u/SkwerlMonkey 14h ago

Yeah I always forget about those until I die a fiery death lol

-1

u/MewsashiMeowimoto 16h ago

You are playing a survival game that takes hundreds of hours to play through.

What is the premium on your leisure time that you are still spending playing a game.

14

u/Selacha 19h ago

It's because of the fact that it isn't required to beat the game that makes its flaws so egregious. You 100% never need to use it, you can beat every boss and biome without it. It's only purpose is to make a favorite weapon or armor set viable in late-game areas instead of having to discard your preferred items, and then it has a 1/3 chance to punish you for it. They're basically going "Hey, we know how much you love using that Frostner hammer, I bet you'd love it if it were strong enough to give it a go on some Ashlands enemies, right? Well here's a crappy mechanic requiring hard to find/limited resources that has a chance to upgrade your hammer, or destroy it entirely!"

If they just want it as a resource-sink to pad runtime, then either make Idols craftable, or refund the base materials on breakage. It's just a gaacha mechanic for no real reason.

1

u/EreckShun 16h ago

I am a bit confused. I feel like if it were a necessary mechanic, that would be far more bothersome. As far as I'm concerned, the game has always been about changing your gear to overcome new challenges. That much hasn't changed. I do agree that it could be implemented more effectively though.

12

u/Killer1236 19h ago

Optional or not, its a cool concept... but a terrible gambling implementation. So yes, many people just outright never use it. If you add something to your game, then 90% of the player are just avoids it entirely... its a bad addition to the game that needs a major change.

0

u/Outrageous_Apricot42 19h ago

POE with its giga rare uniques would like a word.

4

u/ThisIsntOkayokay Sailor 19h ago

Introduced something NEW that feels broken or made for a Korean gaccha game system.

5

u/DesignerLocal3212 19h ago

Honestly the reason the forge is dumb is because the coloured glows you get from upgrading are really cool and go up to 20+ the chances of you rolling a level 20 weapon are so statistically improbable that you are practically better off buying a lotto ticket. (less then 0.0021% chance)

10

u/Hiimzap 19h ago

Because it feels like such an unfinished game mechanic. Why put that in like that with the failure chance, it goes against everything valheim was so far and adds some nonsense rng shit into the game when everything was predetermined.

-3

u/SubjectWorry7196 19h ago

Losing your shit is VERY on theme for Valhiem.

10

u/Hiimzap 19h ago

Yea but i want to lose my shit because i fucked up not because the game said “fuck you for interacting with the new mechanic”

3

u/SubjectWorry7196 18h ago

Gambling is a fuck up

-2

u/Serious-Elderberry65 19h ago

It’s optional and has a mile long progress bar to cancel anytime you want. I think more than anything it’s to give a reason to explore more to find the idols

5

u/tofubirder 18h ago

The idols aren’t a reward though as evidenced by the comments regarding this mechanic

4

u/Serious-Elderberry65 18h ago

Just saw this

https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/s/t8Lh2vkzwi

My stance has changed from its optional to it just shouldn’t be used and needs a full rework, using it in its current state is asking for ur shit to poof

2

u/Hiimzap 15h ago

But why would i explore more if its entirely optional and better to just ignore it? I think it would be better if i could choose to use more idols to increase the chances up to 100% or additional materials because you’d given the choice and an incentive to explore more.

-1

u/mdenglish 17h ago

Then dont gamble?

2

u/Hiimzap 15h ago

A mechanic thats best to be ignored isnt exactly good game design.

-1

u/mdenglish 17h ago

Then dont gamble?

-2

u/Uefeti 18h ago

I mean, it was your choice?  It’s not like the game doesn’t warn you about it. 

2

u/StardropIslandTours 16h ago

Typically when you interact with a mechanic in a game, there's at least some level of counterplay or ability to mitigate bad outcomes. Who the hell asked for a mechanic that actively punishes you for even attempting to interact with it? It's a beginner's trap and actively harms your experience at worst, and at the very best it could possibly be, it's a mild novelty for people who know how to (partially) circumvent the actively hostile design of the mechanic.

0

u/Uefeti 13h ago

It doesn’t?  It’s also not a beginner trap? What?  It’s a gamble, and the chances are decently positive, getting 1-2 upgrades will sometimes save you 1-2 stacks of metal, which is extremely valuable. 

This mechanic is also stupidly strong with cheap/easy items. You can take the Fine-Wood you get in Dark Forest, bow, upgrade it to level 7+, at it will be good enough stats-wise to serve you even in smth like Mistlands. 

At least that’s how I used it.  Honestly, with some specific items it might even be kinda broken.

It also gives you some sort of semi-endless endgame, with an option to endlessly upgrade your gear. Not the most exciting thing ever, but can make for a cool challenge.

2

u/Hiimzap 15h ago

Yea the choice i made so far was to ignore it. But is it a good mechanic if players rather just ignore it? I dont think so

-1

u/Uefeti 13h ago

I mean it’s your choice?  It helped me save a lot of resources I would otherwise spend on upgrades.

4

u/Caridor 17h ago

For my part, it's because the idols replace other treasure. So even if you don't interact with the mechanic, you're still being screwed because you're getting useless idols

And honestly, it's also a mechanic you find in shitty cash grabby mobile games and MMOs because it lets them sell you an item that guarantees your item doesn't break. It is not in any game because it genuinely improves the game.

1

u/EreckShun 16h ago

Ok, I understand that. Other loot being replaced could be considered a step backwards. That seems reasonable to me.

I just dont understand why it has garnered such a negative response otherwise. I dont like the risk of losing an item, so I elected not to use it. There are plenty of features added with the 1.0 release that I did enjoy and want to engage with. That seemed like the end of the conversation to me, but other folks seem very bothered. Still, I can agree that it could be improved.

People saying that it "ruins the game" seem to be a bit overdramatic.

2

u/Gnomepunter1 14h ago

It's the fallacy of intent. If a dev does something extra as a little bonus, participants will not view it as excess but, instead, judge it by its absolute value. It is up to the participant to view it as a bonus with little consideration or as a poorly executed mechanic that expresses incompetence.

Like, I'm walking down the sidewalk that has a lot of trash. Not my problem, but by participating in picking up one piece of trash I am beholden to outside judgment. I can be viewed as helpful or someone who should have picked up more trash. It's frankly bullshit and why some devs do not put in the errant bonus from time-to-time.

You have the right perspective, it probably wasn't a main focus and intended as a bonus. Although, it did open them up to criticism in its poor execution.

2

u/Corfal 19h ago

I think in world settings they should just add another bar for "destruction chance" of forge so people can just set that to zero and we can shift all these discussions back to, "Play the game how you want to. Make the settings as easy or as hard as you like"

2

u/saltychipmunk 3h ago

Its a poisonous mechanic which exploits a know dark pattern. Anyone who has encountered it knows its the bread and butter mechanic of the most exploitative Asian games where it become popularized.

But more importantly Its presence in this game is just wierd. It contrasts heavily with every other mechanic in the game.

Anyone with a functioning brain could have predicted that most people would either

Hate the fuck out of it when it pops their expensive weapons

Cheat the system by save summing

Bypass it with a mod.

Or ignore it.

Its sticks out in a game all about incremental progression through tiers of gear and materials.

1

u/Tornado_Hunter24 17h ago

Imo lowers quality of game and makes it look cheap

1

u/sir_stabby_III 14h ago

people are "up in arms" because they can see that a feature like the forge of potential has... potential to be good, its only bad because of how its been implemented in its current state.

I have not seen a single person say "The forge of potential is bad and should be removed!!!" All i've seen is people suggesting changes to make it actually worth using

1

u/Forsaken-Tradition12 10h ago

Well, first, not everyone is skilled enough to beat the game with low leveled gears. Secondly, some are trying Hard or Very Hard mode, so the FoP may do some good there. Last but not least, there are some psychopaths like me who doesn't like the number 3 or 4 on my gear level... I'd prefer mine to be 5 or 7...

1

u/Hikaryuu 6h ago

The RNG-based mechanic feels awkward and unfair.

For example... If you beated all the bosses and want to upgrade your favorite gears because you like them, something like the Forge of Potential is perfect... but the RNG-based system feels contrary to the effort-reward logic of all others Valheim mechanics. So, I think the hate is for having a system we wanted but locked behind a gamble (and even worse, a gamble of high risk and low reward).

Also there is so many ways to fix it, just don't punish the player that hard or remove the failure chance entirely (in exchange put some extra cost). My favorite fix is using a tier system: 100% success chance but every 3 upgrades you would need a higher tier idol: A bronze weapon would consume 3 bronze idol, then 3 iron idols, then 3 silver idols and so on.