r/ArcRaiders • u/travhimself • 12h ago

Discussion Alternate PvE Proposal: Temporary Ceasefire map condition (see caption for details and reasoning)

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THE IDEA

Create a Temporary Ceasefire major map condition. Put it in the rotation with other major map events. Keep the loot super limited: no items beyond blue (rare) quality. Increase the arc presence. You can do your quests and hunt arc, but you can't gain a big power advantage.

THE REASONING

Why this, instead of an always-available PvE mode? Low-risk raiding should be a reprieve; a small treat. Not the standard.

If you remove most of the risk, you remove most of the reward. The danger is the whole point in a game like this.

Without danger, we lose lose the serendipity. You don't need to make friends or find out who people are and what they're up to. You don't have the little moments like accidentally shooting someone and then trying to make it up to them. Or the dilemma of deciding whether to defib a stranger who could be an adversary.

PvE also removes a lot of hard and soft gaming skills. I don't have to mind my aim in order to stay friendly. I don't have to say "Hey I'm friendly, what's up dude." There's no more flashlight friend-or-foe indicator. The sound of a powerful weapon no longer gets my hackles up. I don't need to listen for footsteps.

Lastly, open PvE could wreck the economy. You shouldn't be able to free-farm materials.

Adaptive matchmaking works. If you've earned your way deep into the friendly ranks, you can play all evening without getting shot at. This should suffice for most dads and uncles. But the risk is always there in the back of your mind.

And for those that need a boost now and then, we have a rotating Temporary Ceasefire map condition.

3.4k Upvotes

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148

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 12h ago

Counterpoint: If you don't want to play a PvE-only mode, don't.

Problem solved!

13

u/west-tek_ 12h ago

i do want to play a pve mode, i love it, it needs some work though. griefing is way worse now because before you could feasibly just fight back, now you just deal with it.

-2

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 12h ago

Eh, griefers are "having fun" trying to break the system during what is technically a test. Kind of interesting to see what they are coming up with, tbh.

But:

  1. As another thread pointed out, they are showing their cards too early - Embark is watching, and will know what to tweak/nerf before they release a new game mode. It's a low-key trap.

  2. The novelty will wear off pretty quickly. It's a lot of work to PvP in a PvE mode. At some point the return on investment won't be worth it.

1

u/Budget_Half982 12h ago

The main reason is not PvP at all. Their main goal is annoying and ragebaiting PvE players. You can't even see their viewpoint.

-1

u/MrChromatographer 12h ago
  1. It doesn't matter what embark does, griefers will find a way to grief
  2. The novelty will never wear off. I guess you've never met a troll before

4

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 12h ago

  1. Yep, but the return on investment won't be worth it for most of them

  2. Yep, but the percentage of trolls will be insignificant.

0

u/Inexquas 10h ago
  1. Weren’t people claiming just a day ago that people would spend potentially hours rubber banding back and forth between carebear lobbies just to get the chance to rat a weak target? The investment seems much lowered here and if your goal is to get a reaction, much easier tonfind.

2.the percentage of trolls abmm was even less as there was a punishment in place for rats killing a target people put back into pvp matches, and rats stealing from your kills and key rooms by being killed for the transgression.

0

u/BtheBST 12h ago

seen a video of a cheater killing people in pve. it might get worse.....

2

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 12h ago

You are always going to have bad actors.

-3

u/NuffinSerious 12h ago

I don't think pve mode has abmm, which is why the griefers aren't being matched with other griefers. Unless they are, which is even more hilarious because because that means the biggest complainers of griefers are other pvp enthusiasts. So it's toxic people complaining about toxicity.

1

u/Tiddy18 12h ago

Just because someone likes PvP, doesn't make them toxic...

22

u/-Badger3- 12h ago

I mean, I don't want the PvPvE game I bought being split into PvE and defacto PvP

I like how most people are chill, but you still have to stay on your toes. That's the game I bought, that's the game I want to keep playing.

-6

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 12h ago

Well I have good news for you, then: you will be able to keep playing the game you bought and want to keep playing. It won't be split into PvE and PvP only.

5

u/-Badger3- 12h ago

Like I said, adding a PvE mode turns the main game mode into defacto PvP.

I don't want to play the baby mode, I don't want to play the bloodbath mode.

5

u/maibr 12h ago

but it doesn't? ive been playing the regular mode and still am in 100% care bear lobbies

6

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

How, does adding a PvE mode turn AR into "defacto PvP"?

I keep being told we already have a PvE mode with carebear lobbies. And as somebody who exclusively plays in those lobbies, I think that's a valid assessment.

Those players weren't in your lobbies last week, and the game didn't turn into PvP.

1

u/ryd3rstr0ng 10h ago

I think it’s worth noting player numbers are highest they’ve been in months right now. I’ve not noticed a difference in my lobbies, but when that dwindles I doubt that would be the case with a permanent PVE mode separating the overall base.

-3

u/360_No-Scope_Upvote 12h ago

Yes it will, that's why he used the term "de facto". As long as a PVE toggle exists, PVPVE will simply become PVP (over time, for the commenter who wants to tell me his lobby last night was normal).

Playlists aren't defined by the label the devs assign to them, they're defined by the behavior of the players who participate in them.

Mixed lobbies work because those that only want to engage in PVE are forced to share their lobbies with people looking for PVP, and must take the necessary precautions with this in mind. If you give them an option that presents a path of least resistance, they are going to take it, it's human nature.

Then, players who prefer the "mixed" style are also encouraged to handle all farming and quests in PVE, because it's the path of least resistance, further removing passive actors from the PVPVE pool.

If one playlist allows PVP and the other doesn't, the one that allows PVP becomes the "de facto" PVP playlist, because that's the only space PVP is allowed in. Over time, this playlist becomes less "mixed" and more "PVP", leaving the people who bought the game for PVPVE without a playlist to call home at all.

"Mixed" lobbies are what made Arc special in the first place, and the secret to maintaining this environment is forced participation between opposing groups. If one group pulls out, the entire thing falls apart and Arc becomes another generic "pve coop shooter" or "Battle Royale", depending on the playlist you end up in.

When I play Arc, I play passively in carebear lobbies, but I always have my gun ready for bad actors or loot thieves. That's where the true tension of the game comes from, not knowing who you can trust and the sense of paranoia that creates. It's also what makes the positive interactions so memorable in the first place.

2

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

I disagree.

We already have a "PvE mode" with carebear lobbies, and the game hasn't become "either PvP or Carebear".

I don't think it will become "either PvE or PvP". You do.

I guess we find out in 6 months or so.

EDIT: I am also in carebear lobbies, and intend to stay there. I *might* use PvE for duos/trios, but I think ABMM basically creates a PvE only mode (with a hint of danger!) already.

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18

u/sneezeonturtles 12h ago

Counterpoint: If you don't want to play a PvPvE game, don't buy one!

Problem avoided!

4

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/ArcRaiders/comments/1x5zf8y/comment/pgr7daj/?context=3

-4

u/sneezeonturtles 11h ago

Except it's not as simple as "it's evolving and changing". You didn't (or I would hope you didn't) buy the game ARC Raiders, knowing full well it was a PvPvE game, and thought, "Hm, I sure hope if I complain enough they'll completely change the entire premise of the game".

That's a bit entitled, no? Like, it's one thing if a game naturally evolves into something more a la Fortnite, but to have a percentage of players buy a PvPvE game, get upset that one of the Ps is happening, and then ask for the game to be fundamentally changed for you just seems weirdly entitled.

12

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

Embark isn't testing a PvE mode because people on Reddit complained.

They are testing it because the player data shows that most players want some sort of PvE mode.

The people posting here make up a tiny fraction of the playerbase, and they are a rabidly-vocal (on both sides!) group. They are noise.

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61

u/travhimself 12h ago

Respectfully, I don't think that solves the problem. An always-on PvE mode floods the economy with freely obtained items and gear.

24

u/jeffchicken 11h ago

I don't understand how this is hurting you and others that feel this way though, there isn't an economy to flood. There are no auction houses or markets of any kind. The only thing it could possibly move a little faster with are the expedition material requirements, and the counterpoint to that is PVE is reduced loot value so it will still take longer to get that same amount than running pvpve.

It's 2 days into a beta of a mode that they don't even know if they're going to keep or not, give them a little time to play around with it. The first generation of any idea is never the best one.

0

u/sheephound 10h ago

there absolutely is a market and has been there since the first month.

1

u/jeffchicken 9h ago

I believe you are referring to the market where you can buy ammo and things such as that, but no there is no player trading market. Which is what we are talking about.

-1

u/Parking-Welcome2514 10h ago

The basic problem is that when everyone is rich the game will converge on some meta, and eventually gets stale for everyone. This was a problem with the duplication filled bobcat kinetic meta. They were so common that everyone used them with reckless abandonment. It sucked. 

This was fixed by this update, resetting the power levels. Eventually we will get back to a new meta but the time between now and then is when the game is most enjoyable. 

Sharing loot with the pve mode accelerates this end state because people will reach the peak and converge quicker using the low risk mode (pve) to fuel high risk play (PvP). Embarks update schedule is already  slower then the player base accumulates, so adding more designed features that enable it is poor design 

0

u/jeffchicken 10h ago

The biggest flaw in design with the game is that there's no other ways or things to do with the resources that you can collect, this game long should have had other places you could pump resources into besides the expedition and crafting. I know that they've talked about adding things like that soon, but I've had these feelings about the games for over 6 months. The game itself becomes stale before I meta like that could even form from it.

22

u/RealCameleer 12h ago

No pve mode = pve player gets killed by rat and rat grabs loot to sell.

pve mode = pve player does not get killed and extracts selling their loot.

where does this extra loot come from? how can another gamemode actually flood a market?

14

u/Destithen 11h ago

where does this extra loot come from? how can another gamemode actually flood a market?

Lol, they can't answer this. This sub has a massive critical thinking problem. They're very firm in these beliefs, but struggle to articulate in any logical way why they think the way they do. It's "unfair"...even though they would have access to PvE lobbies at any time they wanted too. It would "flood the economy" despite the fact that there is no economy in the first place and nothing fundamentally changes from a carebear lobby to a PvE one in terms of people getting "free loot".

...and honestly, everyone being flush with cool gear sounds like it would just make PvP moments more exciting and dynamic to me. Maybe people will be encouraged to risk their cool shit when losing them is a softer blow and more easily recovered.

1

u/sheephound 8h ago

there is an economy, there's been a market since the first week of release, and that market has been active since at least a month ago when i last played.

20

u/Dvldog0352 12h ago

I understand the concern, but what economy is supposedly being flooded?

There isn’t a traditional player-driven marketplace where everyone is buying and selling gear. Players are already accumulating blueprints, weapons, and resources at vastly different rates depending on how much time they play.

And PvE doesn’t mean free loot.

You’re still fighting ARC, using ammunition, risking equipment, and spending time gathering resources. The only thing being removed is the threat of another player killing you.

If someone wants to use PvE to gear up for PvP, that’s their choice. Plenty of casual players have absolutely no intention of touching PvPvE again. I don’t see why their preferred way of enjoying the game needs to be restricted because of how someone else might choose to play.

8

u/jakethejewler22 12h ago

That care bare lobbies dont already offer? I like pve for duos and trios because its near impossible to just quest with my boys in trios its always a sweat fest.

10

u/DayDreamer2121 11h ago

It's impossible to do anything other than pvp in trios, you shoot a tick and half the server comes to hunt you down.

1

u/exposarts 12h ago

i think they should just make the abmm extend to duos and trios rather than just solos... Rather than creating an entirely different mode exclusively for pve.. That would be the best compromise between both groups..

2

u/jakethejewler22 11h ago

The problem then be comes queue times because youd be waiting for trio care bares to be playing. Theres no perfect fix for the issues and I dont envy embark at all just wanted to add that there is a reason why I want pve to stay.

65

u/MintyxxFresh 12h ago

Nobody is out here selling gear. There is no economy. Pve players can get good gear then play pvp... who literally cares, if you pvp you should be better then the pve people and then once you kill them atleast you get more then a free kit. All this crying, go play something else or keep playing the mode thats been in the game and hasnt changed. Everyone crying and bitching about something thats added that they literally dont have to interact with, grow tf up and move on.

0

u/heavysixer77 5h ago

Just a week or so ago everyone was crying about the duplication issue saying it’s ruining the game economy and now, magically that PvE released, there’s NO in game economy?

-11

u/Jachim 12h ago

Disagree. PVE should be seaprate - this is as a PVE player. We shouldn't be used as a crutch for PVP players to go in and loot up and then go fuck up the PVP queue with those who had to work their asses off for their PVP only loot.

8

u/only_nuns 10h ago

You act as if there's consistent dueling in PvP when in reality the meta game has always been to just catch people off guard; making gear differences mostly irrelevant. Even in the shoot-on-sight ABMM raids the players complain about freekit users.

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19

u/Hobo-man 12h ago

As if carebear lobbies don't exist

11

u/Dvldog0352 11h ago

As if carebear lobbies are full proof from another player killing you and stealing your loot.

PvE is full proof.

There isn’t a 100% guarantee you won’t run into aggressive players in carebear lobbies. There is a 100% guarantee you won’t get shot in the back by another player in PvE mode.

1

u/exposarts 12h ago

exactly, "pve mode" already existed in the form of abmm, but it was mostly consistent with solos/duo lobbies. Trios was always KOS... All of this really seems redundant, maybe because many still don't know about abmm, I mean i wouldn't if i wasnt on reddit or social media.

34

u/cantizani 12h ago

people openly hacking and cloning on pvp servers and you worried about pve economy lmao

4

u/glad_yo 12h ago

Seriously lol buffoonery of the top tier

3

u/MasterAyy 12h ago

I remember there used to be lots of complaints from PVP players about having to fight free kit players since those players had no loot for them to obtain. Streamers would kill someone and then see they were a free kit and complain that they had nothing on them to loot and had no "goop". But now the complaint is that the opponents will have too much loot on them?

3

u/Ximena-WD 11h ago

Floods economy while duping has been a serious issue. I think the "economy" could never recover unless we have mandatory wipes.

15

u/Aaddaammnn 12h ago

This is literally an invented problem in your head, the mode has been out for a day. There’s no evidence to suggest this.

The only problems are the ones people are making up.

8

u/Mut1gen 12h ago

Ok and? The "economy" isnt really really. Like its just more loot. It really changes nothing.

-2

u/Euphoric_Reading_401 12h ago

It's not even more loot. The actual currency you pay for loot is time and you can definitely get more loot in friendly PvPvE lobbies faster.

3

u/Mut1gen 12h ago

what does it matter if I want to get my loot slower?

6

u/Destithen 11h ago

Respectfully, I don't think that solves the problem.

Respectfully, I don't see a problem that needs solving in the first place.

If people are bringing in lots of good shit, then that will just make PvP more interesting. Win-win as far as I'm concerned.

2

u/Chemical-Sir-7705 11h ago

Fool of you to assume you gonna find any items left in pve mode after the first 5 mins, or see me playing pvp if pve remains permanent

I like your idea regardless. Maybe 2-3 maps being pve every 1 hrs so pve players has some choice

2

u/KobiLDN 11h ago

Flood the economy with...

2

u/NSNIA 11h ago

You never played carebear lobbies huh?

It's exactly the same this entire time, i just loot without care in the world. I tried dedicated PvE mode and it's literally the same thing

2

u/Lavatis 11h ago

what economy? are you selling and buying from other players?

2

u/-r-a-f-f-y- 10h ago

Homie is worried about the 'economy', I work enough as it is, I'm not trying to struggle to farm basic shit just so I can actually play the damn game.

2

u/rejuicekeve 8h ago

ah yes the economy that definitely isnt full of duped items and the already existent non aggressive lobbies

5

u/menkenke 12h ago

How does it flood the economy? When killed in pvp the loot ist still in the economy. Loot is never free and gated through time spend in the game

-5

u/travhimself 12h ago

Suppose you and I both do 10 raids. You do all PvP runs, and I do all PvE runs. My chances of escaping with an inventory full of gear are considerably higher than yours. And I can do my 10 runs faster than you. I'm now able to build more Magnetic Accelerators than you.

Over time, we would see massive gear inflation.

7

u/InformalYesterday760 12h ago

But that inflation only matters if they come back into PvPvE, in which case they bring some of their better gear and you farm them cause they are PvE focused and get that gear

I don't see this as a huge problem

2

u/Spije 11h ago

Unless PvP players use the free loot from PvE queue to fund their PvP anytime their stash is low. Which people will be doing because it’s much more efficient

1

u/Destithen 11h ago

What I'm hearing is we'll likely see geared players more often, which will make PvP more dynamic and fun.

1

u/Spije 9h ago

Gear is what determines people’s goals in this game. If a fully geared loadout isn’t valuable (because it’s easy to get), then the main attraction of the game is compromised for a lot of PvPers. The dopamine moments for most PvP players are big loot losses or big come ups - neither of those situations matter when end game loot is a dime a dozen.

2

u/VanillaRadonNukaCola 12h ago

What loot are you extracting in PvE vs pvp?

How are you finding so much more important loot in PvE in such a short time?

Are you talking just snaking cores?

What about when you do extract a pvp with a backpack full of high tier guns with mods?

2

u/menkenke 12h ago edited 12h ago

Ok but when i get downed someone else has the stuff i looted, it doesnt matter the loot is already in the "economy" after i looted it from some locker or crate - same for pvp or pve

This ist an extraction shooter without major resets, you have gear inflation anyways.

3

u/The_R1NG 12h ago

That’s not how that works because you’re either going to be a PvE player so the influx doesn’t impact PvP uless you’re dying a ton to arc (which then you wouldn’t have that stockpile) or you’re going to go into PvP and get stepped on. Now those guns are spread out to multiple PvPers.

If you do win that doesn’t matter either because you keep your gun and bring it back anyway

1

u/Destithen 11h ago

Over time, we would see massive gear inflation.

Genuine question:

What the fuck does this matter when we don't have forced server wipes ever?

2

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 12h ago

Embark said the test reduces the loot value in PvE, and personally I have noticed the difference.

I've also seen people claim that they are pulling all yellow drops in PvE, which I don't believe BUT who knows, maybe Embark is testing different levels on different servers to get more data. This is a test, after all.

As a supporter of a PvE-only mode, I think it needs to have a reduction in loot values. I would go so far as to say non-cosmetic loot (e.g., stencils) doesn't drop in PvE. And, I don't know, maybe even blueprints? Or yellow items?

In any event, Embark says they are looking at all of the data, and that's what you want something like this to be: data-driven. Not feelings-driven. Not PvE or PvP driven. Cold, hard data driven.

2

u/travhimself 12h ago

I agree with your position, overall. I'm also curious to see what numbers they share with us.

I did one Matriarch run, and the legs were not dropping cores. So that's good.

1

u/PowerDreamer2493 12h ago

How did the Matriarch change? I stopped playing but I was a god at rushing cores. So they’re all in the final ball now? Isn’t that worse?

1

u/travhimself 12h ago

From what I saw, I think cores don't drop at all in PvE mode. But maybe someone can confirm/deny.

1

u/S0ggylemonz 11h ago

I thought they only drop from the body not the legs anyways now?

1

u/mitch68w 10h ago

Legs and body have cores. You can’t farm the armor plates for cores anymore from what I’ve seen. Basically no cores until it’s dead and all those raiders rushing out to loot the armor plates and getting downed are wasting their own time and resources.

2

u/FreshmeatOW 9h ago

There's not reduced loot. I come out with more loot because there's 0 risk in PvE mode. Arc are easy to deal with when you don't have to consider enemy players. Resources spent against arc normally have to be carefully considered due to ther presence of enemy players, but no longer. Now your second weapon can be a hullcracker easily.

People will always choose the path of least resistance. I'm sure you understand what that means if you actually have critical thinking and are an unselfish person who understand how delicate this games economy and ecosystem is.

2

u/clueless_Medic 5h ago

I'm just going to point out that you say "People alw5choose the path of least resistance". People tend to choose the path of least resistance but don't always. If people always went the path of least resistance then who is playing PVPVE right now with this PVE trial run. No one should be playing PVPVE then.

Now one thing I am going to say is people hate change and will normally resist change if it does not benefit them immediately. Especially redditers lol.

1

u/DayDreamer2121 12h ago

Personally my regular loot has been shittier than usual and it's always been shit. My buddy though has been pulling decent loot like always, mf jokes about me being poor and shit while he's yoinking purples outta first containers in spawn on the regular.

Pve loot for emperor might not be changed much, though if it is I think it's still worth it. We did emperor 3 times yesterday first run I got one module he got 5 we didn't finish or start it though. Second we made it to the loot room and he got a bunch of modules amp mats and 2 emperor modulators, while I got 2 modules in the entire area, I opened probably 15+ containers. Next run i got 11 and like 5 purple mats for amping and he gets 5 more modulators and 12 modules. At the end I mentioned it's lame you can't get amp mats from the containers outside the loot room and this mf goes "I've been getting them this whole time what do you mean?" He has 3 full rows.

Mine sounds pretty bad here but again my loot is dogshit always has been ive played since launch and never wiped, and I'm stilling missing several bps from launch, so this is considerably better.

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u/buffer_overflown 12h ago

In any event, Embark says they are looking at all of the data, and that's what you want something like this to be: data-driven. Not feelings-driven. Not PvE or PvP driven. Cold, hard data driven.

This is a bad take. I'm a software dev, so you might imagine that I am data driven.

But that's not the reasonable case for games; you need to have a context for the data, how it feels to play against and with.

This strategy is how you get dilution towards a mean. Nerfs for fun weapons that seem 'overrepresented' -- Helldivers had this problem! Arrowhead kept nerfing weapons that were fun to use because they interpreted their data that way.

I think it needs to have a reduction in loot values

I think the economies should be separate, with separate progressions. Alternatively, I actually like OP's idea of a 'truce' gamemode that rotates around would be delightful if the economies must be shared.

tldr; you're wrong that 'cold, data-driven' is somehow the solution to fundamental people-driven behavior.

4

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 12h ago

I'm a software dev, so you might imagine that I am data driven.

Hello fellow software developer!

My point is that Embark has a lot of data that shows them how players are playing their game. Of course you can't make changes only based on data, there are other factors that are important.

But the changes should be data-driven. The data should be a guide to decision-making and the direction to go in. Context can - and should - have an impact as well. But the data should point you in a general direction.

I don't have an opinion on separate economies/progression.

The intent of the last line of my post was "Driven by cold, hard data".

Driven, not forced.

1

u/buffer_overflown 11h ago

Then we agree. I've just seen many data-driven changes end up being miserable decisions.

I genuinely want to see this PvE mode after it's had some time to settle and griefing get addressed. From what I've seen of it, there's a subset of players using the opportunity to grief, but that doesn't mean the mode is without its merits.

I'm more of a PvP player myself and am familiar with Carebearing from the old Eve Online days. I've seen the arguments about MP toggles to avoid player pirates in relation to games like Elite, etc.

All told, my big takeaway is that I've generally found a risk gradient to be the healthiest option. Heightened risk / reward for more danger and goodies, but that opt-out only works when the economies are separated.

And if the econ must be pooled and PvP loot gets filled with more 'high value' gear, so what? It just means more runs with rarer gear, less gear fear, and that's hardly the end of the world.

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

For the record, and as somebody who exclusively plays in carebear lobbies, I plan on staying in PvEvP.

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u/[deleted] 12h ago

[deleted]

2

u/Mother-Movie-9411 12h ago

Uhhh your farm the best weapons safely all day in PvE then what's stopping you from taking all of that into a PvP lobby and going ham? (You won't because you are a PvE player)...but in theory it could be abused

1

u/Nirxx 12h ago

If the progress was separate, sure. It's not.

1

u/PowerDreamer2493 12h ago

What a dumb perspective. Whether or not Arc Raiders has something that can be considered an economy is besides the point. There is a real difference between playing a game flooded with duped gear vs not. And to your point about separate stashes, it doesn’t feel that separate when I’m transferring your dead bodies stash into mine, or vice versa. The chances of finding your gun being a godcat vs some other bullshit is what others are calling the “economy”.

3

u/Friendly_Maximum_649 12h ago

That’s fine. The real problem is when the economy is flooded with duped top tier guns and attachments. That’s a much bigger problem imho.

5

u/AenarIT 12h ago

duping and no wipes make any talk of an “economy” completely pointless

5

u/Jon_CockBurn 12h ago

I said that in my post and got downvoted, I guess ppl don’t understand the problem this makes

3

u/Defiant2022NM 12h ago

Yes, not to mention that one of the best parts of the game is being in a friendly solos lobby and not knowing if the free kit next to you is a rat

4

u/NuutsDeeZ 12h ago

"Flood the economy"

Lmao there's no Grand Exchange in this game calm down.

2

u/Llorion 12h ago

Kind of like duping, but harder.

3

u/The_R1NG 12h ago

“The economy” you mean the one they left duped items in that still has items being duped? Gtfo acting like this game as a real economy that isn’t busted already.

Want an economy? Force a wipe.

1

u/Do_N0t_Reply 11h ago

What economy? It is not like we have a player market

1

u/skicki16 11h ago

This is how it worked before too? Carebear lobbies and pve lobbies are like 99% the same

1

u/Icy_Agency923 11h ago

Brother people were already doing that for ages with duping. You can't be serious right? They flooded the economy with endless high tier weapons and made themselves millions in raider coins.

Also... with ABMM you have PvE lobbies already. I came back for the update and didn't get killed one time. So adding a full toggle changes nothing and NONE of you have any actual data that this ruined the game.

I would at least wait until the test is over and see what Embark says about the results, they have some pretty insanely detailed statistic capabilities so I am confident they will know if this actually hurt the PvPvE mode.

I have at least seen quite a few comments saying they still get PvE lobbies in PvPvE so there are likely enough players to fuel both especially in NA and Europe.

1

u/alesserrdj 5h ago

So do the free loadouts that you can just resell for free money and salvage.

1

u/Jachim 12h ago

I agree actually. Move PVE to a different account system. Two characters one PVE one PVP. :) Like Tarkov. Boost loot back to normal for them and ignore that entire wing if you don't like it. :) Hell, in PVE mode, buff the shit out of ARC. Make them hard as hell. Make them ruthless like they are now and kill you on the ground. Make it so you HAVE to team up or die! :)

0

u/Mother-Movie-9411 12h ago

I think there are games that fill that niche already out there not named Arc Raiders

2

u/Jachim 12h ago

Yeah but Arc is special. I like it. Just not griefing.

0

u/RobHuck 12h ago

It’s not freely obtained. You still have to fight or out maneuver arc and beat others to the chase.

1

u/MatrimAtreides 6h ago

But you have infinity stress free attempts, so the only real cost is time

1

u/RobHuck 6h ago

You need to get this out of your head that it’s stress free my dude. Not everyone is billy badass like you.

1

u/MatrimAtreides 6h ago

It's not badass you're literally fighting predictable NPCs that perform the same attack patterns every time. It's not fuckin Dark Souls. You just gotta turn your brain on. If you get in trouble you just run.

1

u/RobHuck 6h ago

Uh huh. Cool story. None of us have ever come up with that before. It all works until it doesn’t. Doesn’t mean I’m out here treating it like a cake walk. I’m not here to dismiss the work people put in though. I’ve said it before, it’s a cartoony ass sci-fi adventure, but it’s still work put in at a risk. You can feel however you want, but I certainly don’t see it the way you do gamer.

0

u/Astrozy_ 12h ago

Neither of these are challenging

-3

u/RobHuck 12h ago

Well good for you gamer. Smug a lot?

1

u/Cool_cucumber007 12h ago

Also, regular lobbies are fill with PvP demons now no due to the pure PvE players no longer there. So PvPvE players are screwed. 😂

5

u/VanillaRadonNukaCola 12h ago

My lobbies haven't changed from before the toggle.  At least not yet

1

u/LetMeBeGay 11h ago

Mine unfortunately have and I wish I could figure out how to make them not. I had one raid where 15 flairs went off, not even joking. It has never been that bad. A few of them were mostly fine, but I’m saying… At least 50% of my matches yesterday, someone fucking shot at me and that’s not normal. I’m not complaining, really, it’s part of the game, but the pool is definitely skewed, is all I’m saying. This definitely isn’t the right way to go about this.

-1

u/Samwellikki 12h ago

Loot is already like water, if you can’t get loot in this game and your problem is losing it in PvP, you are comically bad

0

u/shittydriverfrombk 12h ago

That is already the case with ABMM being different for solo/trio queue, although yes this will make it worse as now trios and duos can farm together

0

u/-MangoStarr- 8h ago

Is this economy in the room with us right now?

-2

u/M3rc_Nate 12h ago edited 11h ago

And? Go kill the players in PvPvE that brought in loot they got from PvE and then you get it. If you can't, get gooder? I doubt the legit gamers who can consistently smoke people in PvP fights are the ones going to PvE. Even if those ones are to load up on good gear and money, I doubt they were poor and using crap gear before PvE came around providing them with an easy way to get better gear.

This isn't Tarkov (if PvE & PvPvE were connected) where a PvE mode can help low and mid-tier players acquire a lot of good gear and money which then leads to them going into PvP with it and being harder to kill. In that game the skill gap is smaller and importance of gear (especially ammo type) is way bigger. If you're good it doesn't really matter much if the guy who usually runs Ferro + Green Shield now has a level 2 bobcat + blue shield. If you're better you still likely win.

1

u/HSGL69 12h ago

thats just a lie .....you cant bring pve loot in to pvp in tarkov bruh

2

u/M3rc_Nate 11h ago

I know you can't, but if you could that's what it would be like

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8

u/BenneB23 12h ago

No, then it still dilutes the player base

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 12h ago

People keep saying this.

People also keep saying "we already have carebear lobbies, which is essentially PvE". And, as somebody who exclusively plays in carebear lobbies, I agree. I have ~100 hours topside, and have probably been killed by another player 10 times.

Carebear lobbies haven't diluted the player base.

And since most of the PvE-only players will probably be coming from carebear lobbies, why would a PvE-mode dilute the playerbase? It's just the carebears - who you already aren't playing with - moving from one place to another.

2

u/Nirxx 12h ago

Because carebear lobbies are still in the same queue? Mixed friendly players also end up in them often?

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

I think people underestimate the number of PvE players - like myself - who will continue to play PvEvP, not the PvE-only mode. So I don't think there will be a noticeable difference in the PvEvP lobbies.

1

u/Nirxx 10h ago

There has been a difference. Mixed lobbies are dead.

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 10h ago

So the game is either 100% PvP or 100% PvE, no mixing at all?

1

u/Nirxx 9h ago

Pretty much after the toggle

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 9h ago

Wow. That black and white, huh? Interesting.

Certainly hasn't been my experience, but I guess I've just been lucky the past few days.

1

u/Nirxx 6h ago

If you're actually getting mixed lobbies, as in you meet a few friendlies, there's a couple of rats, then yeah you're lucky.

If you mean PvE one round, PvP the next, that's not mixed.

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1

u/Asoxus 11h ago

It dilutes the loot pool. Get rid of ABMM altogether and all lobbies will have more loot to go around.

1

u/LetMeBeGay 11h ago

For me it’s the issue that I don’t want to play in a PvE mode, but I also play in peaceful lobbies normally. Most everyone has migrated to the PvE mode, leaving my peaceful lobbies flooded with shoot on sight and bloodbaths. It’s not really the people who were in heavy PvP to begin with—it’s everyone else who played neutrally and passively. Those are the lobbies that adding a PVE mode will impact, and that isn’t fair whatsoever, because now I have to essentially choose between shoot on sight lobbies or lobbies with absolutely no tension or uncertainty.

The tension and uncertainty of this game is what hooked me.

1

u/BenneB23 10h ago

I have the same feeling. I'm left with the trigger happy shoot-on-sight squad, whereas I like the tension of possible PVP, but most players choosing to be friendly with the odd encounter and scramble for your life that raises your heartbeat.

2

u/Aviarn 12h ago

Counterpoint: Keep PvE in its full modifiers and loot potential but have it as a standalone/separate game. Tarkov's PvE v.s. PvP separation is a success because PvE doesn't get nerfed for lacking PvP and nobody can cakewalk their way into good shit other players would have to full-risk for.

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

I've seen other people mention Tarkov, and separate progression/economies. I'm not familiar with Tarkov, so I don't have an opinion.

I will say that whatever PvE in Arc Raiders is, there does need to be downsides (reduced loot value, missing map conditions, more aggressive ARC, open to other ideas).

There needs to be an upside to the risk of PvEvP (which Embark also says), for sure.

1

u/Aviarn 9h ago

To explain there; in Tarkov, PvE is a full separate gamemode. Player levels, inventories, matches, and the player market, are fully separated from PvP. Any progress done in PvE doesn't carry over to PvP and vice versa.

This allows their PvE mode not require to be nerfed, because players that play PvE have their own agency and doesn't affect others.

5

u/PowerDreamer2493 12h ago edited 12h ago

I want to play the normal PvPvE mode with the same pool of players as before, not the remaining pool of players who are deliberately keeping friendly fire on. If you can’t acknowledge this obvious effect that a hard toggle introduces and splitting the matchmaking introduces, just kindly shut the fuck up and keep your head in the sand.

5

u/positive_express 12h ago

The remaining pvp players are just too tough for ya ey. Lol

1

u/Ok-Category147 11h ago

Now we have Stella Montis in every map in PvPvE, people always forget that PvPvE is not suppose to be a exterminate everything live on map, its about decisions, betrayal and cooperation, the last one is way more exciting when it is players decision and not a game strict rule, kind of card game "mafia", strivt PvE just tear off this element and create just a battleroyal with grind system.

1

u/only_nuns 10h ago

I mainly play trios with friends which is shoot-on-sight raids for the most part.

Maybe I'm not understanding how this hurts PvPvE correctly. In my mind I see it as the players who wouldn't fight back are now removed from the experience.

Wouldn't this be a net positive for mixed raids because now when I approach another player to interact with, in the event I decide to go aggro - I am more likely to have an opponent who is actually willing to duel/shoot back?

Killing a player that would never fight back is more boring than killing Arc. That player essentially occupied a slot in the raid that could have gone to someone more willing to fight back or even team up to go fight others etc.

-1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

Good news! You will be playing with the same pool of players in PvEvP!

Carebear lobbies are widely known as 99% friendly, PvE games, and they weren't in your lobbies to begin with. So, no change!

But hey, get defensive and say some mean things. It helps drive your point home.

0

u/TwoSeu 11h ago

Bait used to be believable. You literally just don’t engage with what the person said at all and just say nonsense.

8

u/Mother-Movie-9411 12h ago

Counterpoint: If you don't want any PvP action or threat, don't play a game that was designed around PvPvE interactions lol Problem Solved!

7

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

  1. "You bought a PvEvP game, so there will be PvP."

  2. Things evolve and change.

Both things can be true.

-1

u/Mother-Movie-9411 11h ago

The original Arc Raiders game was developed and tested as a PvE game and they scrapped the whole thing because it got repetitive and boring. Yes, things can change but going back towards a design philosphy that was scrapped for good reason is not the change that needs to happen.

11

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

Yeah, they mentioned that in their development videos.

They also said they were surprised that most players tend to lean PvE and not PvP.

They have data we don't. They wouldn't be testing PvE if they didn't have a good reason to.

1

u/Chance-Resolve-9649 2h ago

Most PvE players were originally interested in the PvPvE. The issue is that PvPvE is insanely bad right now so most of us just don't want to interact with it because it's broken. If PvPvE gets fixed then I'd happily play it but right now it's a dysfunctional mess full of rats with no real counters to such behaviours.

I think putting free kits into a seperate lobby might help fix things but I have no idea how to fix PvPvE.

4

u/bafrad 11h ago

If you don’t want to play a pvepvp game, don’t! Problem solved.

4

u/TatumIsBae 11h ago

Well, you see chief, I don't think Embark agrees with you there, lmao

0

u/bafrad 11h ago

How so?

2

u/Oh_Glorious_Cruster 8h ago

Funny enough I wasn't. I quit after about 60hrs after launch. Now I'm back because of the pve mode. And I'll be gone again as soon as it's over.

0

u/bafrad 7h ago

And that’s A-OK. I want people to play games they want to play. Let’s not make madden a fps or call of duty a city builder. Arc is a pvpve extraction game. If you can’t handle people shooting you, you should not play it.

3

u/theAtmuz *** ******* 12h ago

u/SsssnakePlisssskin

If we go by your logic: Do you not like PvP in your games? Then don’t buy games marketed with PvP in them.

0

u/SalemWolf 12h ago

You’re so right let me go ahead and cancel the mode since I was the one who made it, specifically.

3

u/PracticalPotato 12h ago

You bought the PvPvE game.

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 12h ago

For the record, I have "You bought a PvEvP game." tattooed on my bicep, so no, that's not my logic.

PvEvP isn't going away. The game isn't going to become either PvE or PvP. The existence of a PvE-only mode won't stop you from playing PvEvP.

6

u/Piyaniist 11h ago

Yes but rack that brain a few times and youll see that the people not likely to shoot you in pvepvp already moved onto pve so only the ones who want pvp are left. This doesnt mean i want to fight friendlies like some think as a gotcha, moreso that the nature of these pvepvp games includes the uneasy alliences.

0

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

Exactly my point.

Carebear lobbies - which are essentially PvE - have existed for a long time, and the game hasn't turned into "PvP or Carebear".

I don't see why that would change with a PvE mode; the carebears would just move there, which wouldn't affect you, since they aren't in your lobbies anyway.

1

u/Piyaniist 10h ago

Well i was against abmm aswell

2

u/xSadistik 12h ago

It's PvPvE 😉

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

Somebody else said I'm afraid to type "PvPvE", but I'm not.

I put the "E" in front of the second "P" becuase:

  1. "E" comes before "P" in the alphabet, and my OCD likes that
  2. "PvPvE" looks like it should be pronounced "PPE", which starts off with "PP", or to extrapolate, "Pee Pee".

0

u/Ikkiuchi 7h ago

Have you ever been outside?

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 7h ago

Yes. Once. In ‘89.

1

u/Prime_Galactic 11h ago

unfortunately this game has an economy that effects every lobby

1

u/Asoxus 11h ago

Nah it takes loot out of the PvPvE mode.

1

u/Smasher1598 11h ago

Don’t buy a PvPvE game if you’re gonna sit and cry about having a PvP experience every now and then

1

u/tuser-reddit 12h ago

Yes I like this idea 💡

1

u/Bulky_Wind_4356 12h ago

While I kinda agree with you, I also gotta say that when I tried PvP properly it was god damn depressing. You lose so much gear and return with very little, in the rare case you do return. You can forget about killing larger arc. Anything bigger than a Leaper you're not doing in PvP lobbies

4

u/EmelineRawr 11h ago

You lose so much gear and return with very little,

Yes, that's an extraction shooter.

1

u/LetMeBeGay 11h ago

This is… An interesting take, considering the whole reason they added a PvE trial is because people were complaining… About losing gear…

You are right. It is an extraction shooter.

1

u/MatrimAtreides 11h ago

Yeah, extraction shooters may not be for them then. That's okay.

1

u/EmelineRawr 11h ago

These people thought they were playing a skin of Helldivers 2 sadly

1

u/LetMeBeGay 10h ago

Omg I thought you yourself were saying that and I was like girl do you hear yourself 😭😭😭

1

u/EmelineRawr 9h ago

XD it's fine nw nw

1

u/Bulky_Wind_4356 11h ago

Why add loot then? Everyone is in free loadouts anyway so what's the point of the loot

2

u/EmelineRawr 11h ago

Because the satisfaction comes from surviving and extracting with big loots, sometimes after fighting players?

I mean, it's literally the game genre, is this your first extraction shooter?

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

I would only use a PvE toggle in Duos/Trios, which are not possible for me currently because of the murder hobos.

1

u/SidneyHigson 11h ago

Counterpoint: if you don't want to play a PvPvE game, don't. Problem solved!

1

u/Educational-Onion357 5h ago

pvp players have a psy ops going on where they are trying to remove pve players because they are the only ones they can kill. god forbid they take fair gunfights

-2

u/Oxygen4Lyfe 12h ago

that doesnt fix the problem of there being no pve players in my pvpve lobbies.

2

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 12h ago

I don't understand this argument.

Most of the PvE players are in carebear lobbies at this point, so they weren't in your lobbies to begin with.

0

u/Oxygen4Lyfe 12h ago

the ones who dont let people loot their key rooms or arc kills were
and its not an argument its reality. Tried playing yesterday.

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

You mean assholes? Yeah, they are in PvEvP, too. And most online multiplayer games.

1

u/Oxygen4Lyfe 11h ago

so not letting some free kit take all the matriarch cores and get away with them makes you an asshole?

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

No, people that loot key rooms or arc kills when they don't participate in taking them down are assholes.

1

u/Oxygen4Lyfe 10h ago

no i mean the people who are PvE except when someone does those things and then they kill them to stop them. Also applies to when people are sayin slurs and stuff.

1

u/Yamjna 12h ago

There are no pvp players in my pvpve lobbies. Fuck ABMM

0

u/SalemWolf 12h ago

So you just want to shoot people who won’t shoot back?

That in lies the problem.

2

u/Sufficient-Heat5214 12h ago

God this argument is so tiring.

I like having PVE people in my game because I like not knowing if they are friendly or not. Teaming up with someone organically is much more rewarding than flipping the PVE toggle on.

2

u/Piyaniist 11h ago

Argument inherently based on "evil pvp murderers" and "innocent casual gamers".

1

u/Oxygen4Lyfe 12h ago

no i want people that wont kos.

-3

u/adofthekirk 12h ago

Missing the point 101

1

u/SsssnakePlisssskin 11h ago

What's the point, exactly?

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