No, this isn't a troll post or baiting. As the title says, I liked the story, and it made the cutscenes feel more complete with full context, as is the case for most cutscenes. However, i don't look down on those that dislike it for whatever reason. it is their right to not agree, and I accept that! but the part at the end did surprise me, and made me smile that TWW is going to be made relevant again to a degree.

I've spoken about this on my Twitter account but figured I might as well join on this side of things and express some solidarity with everyone else's utter disappointment.

Anyways, like someone else that posted, the Labyrinth completely broke me because of just how many layers of disappointment it is. It's simultaneously obnoxiously easy and obscenely difficult at the same time somehow

It's easy in the sense that even T11 poses zero challenge whatsoever, but the difficulty is artificially created just from how sloppy the development process was. After today I am 100% confident there was zero quality assurance on this, Valeera is bugged to hell, and having a handful of nemesis boss mechanics rely on an extremely buggy NPC is by far the worst idea I've seen executed to such a shitty degree when it comes to delves.

She dies seemingly on a whim, and she refuses to attack the boss unless you're practically up against Kindo'jan's prostate, which makes this fight agony if you're anything even remotely ranged. Azta'rec was fun at least because his difficulty came from a skill acclimation, but at his core Kindo'jan can be completely oneshot with no prior knowledge, but dealing with the sheer unpredictability of Valeera's instability forced out 14 wipes until I eventually killed him.

Kindo'jan aside, I already had to restart the Labyrinth several times because boss progression bugged out, and when our raid group attempted Kithix tonight, half of our raid group got disconnected and couldn't log back in. It got bad enough that it killed one of our tank's internet connection and we had to call the raid early.

I've been with WoW since late Classic/early TBC, and I don't deny its shortcomings over the years, but I've always stuck with WoW regardless of its ups and downs because it's the game for me, but after today I've genuinely considered just uninstalling the game and finally going outside for once. Maybe it's for the best.

If this is the state of WoW going forward then I fear for the future of Retail.

Anyways, what's everyone else's grievances so far?

I've seen comments of people twisting themselves into pretzels to defend Metzen. It's clear he's in charge and doesn't have the same energy or skill he used to have. Instead of finding someone else to blame blame the guy who is making shit content.

I gotta say, running alts and the most direct path forward to level and gear up being the Vaults have gotta be the most fun I've ever had. Walking around trying to figure out what the next objective is while aggro'ing mobs, getting stuck in acid, or trying to go up a staircase for the 100th time only to realize "that path is actually blocked" or you went up the wrong side of the broken staircase only to have to go back down, makes me feel alive. Dying and then having to find my way through some grey maze (because of course your ghost is in a part of the Vault that you absolutely never go to) only to make it back and die again to the same shitty mobs gives me the wonder and excitement I haven't felt since I was a kid. Having only a couple of flight points and needing to learn that the real way around is gathering these little green things or finding these little air gusts is the challenge I really love in a game. Thank you Blizzard. This is such a special time to play your game. Kudos.

There's been a lot of pushback on the recent patch storyline for Midnight and it's story as a whole, which the pushback is correct because of how bad the narrative has been handle. But at the same time there is this new narrative that's being created that "WoW storyline has always been bad" which is just a straight up a lie.

So I wanted to make this post to set the record straight, the Warcraft Franchise has had some of the most AMAZING stories and Storylines ever told. This idea that "it's always been bad" is a cope out, anyone can Retroactively play Warcraft 3 and even older WoW Expansions/Zones and see how incredibly well they held up and the massive contrast in quality.

And I'm not just saying "old good, new bad"

Forsaken Kingdom LITERALLY came out last month. THEY CAN WRITE, look at Forsaken Kingdoms or even the new stuff of WoW Forever it's AMAZING 10/10

In general too, Blizzard can make good storylines. Look at Diablo 4 lords of Hate which came out this YEAR

There is something else happening that's preventing them from telling a good storyline in retail

Metzen mention once in a interview saying that "the story had been Democratized." I'm curious if he can even really even tell the story he wants with such a process and if that's why the story is in such a rough spot.

Also if anyone really think that it's because "aging playerbase that's getting older and becoming disenchanted" then why is it people aren't saying that about the new Warcraft 3 Expansion Forsaken Kingdom?

I'll tell you why, it's because it's GOOD unlike this Slop we that we get forced freed with Midnight.

First of all i didnt play during that time so i wouldnt know.

But honestly, im shocked by the level of hostility and passive agressive troll post about the state of retail(twitter and some subreddits). Comenting and practically saying that retail be shut down.

Did something similar happened during the classic launch?

I was saving my gold since bfa in case of another longboi showing up, happy i did! Love how its feets glow when it walks around. Money well spent imo, it's a gorgeous mount.

Now all i need is a customizable Ultradon mount as a midnight meta achi 👀

Considering what just happened to Lady Liadrin, although I really hated how she died, what if she is resurrected as undead and this is how retail gets undead paladins? Not saying this is good story telling, but just throwing a theory here.

Edit: I also thought of this because Alonsus appears in Liadrin's cinematic and he helped resurrecting Calia through the Light. So maybe they would do something similar with Liadrin.

Honestly, why aren't we at this phase yet? I am playing Dracthyr and I'm limited to 10 color options and each one of those options are linked to a preset specific Armor Trim color which then forces you to choose wack options. Let us have more choice in customization. This below is an example I made with paint for Dracthyr specifically. But it shouldn't limit what we do to other races and their hair options, etc...

How is such a massive game feeling lacking in customization when their transmog options are so vast? Blizzard just let us enjoy Dracthyr without having to use Visage form and without being so restricted.

Surely just an oversight and someone at blizzard thought about last 2 bosses giving 344 gear? Is ptr just a joke?

I’ll try to keep this short.
I came back to retail 15 days ago. I’ve played tank roles in all versions of the game, and used to push week 1 progression in Wrath.
Been tanking classic raids for the last 3 years, so not really rusty.
My buddy and I tanked normal raids last week, and decided that we can try out the new raid in heroic after 1-shotting it on normal.
We read up on the heroic mechanics, and decided how we would like to tank it. We specifically joined a “relaxed” group, figuring that since we were still learning the (at the time 5 hours old) content, that there will be a few wipes, and hoped that everyone would be understanding.

Pull 1- I mess up, the add kills 2 guys, and then I die to it.
Pull 2- The caster add was too close to the boss, so I tanked the melee add far away (again, we should have moved the boss instead, our mistake)

Mage in the group: “We need new tanks, we need people who have actually studied the fight. These tanks don’t know what they’re doing”

Pull 3- The DPS couldn’t get the melee add down fast enough, so by the time we swapped tanks (add is still up) my buddy gets hit with a 2nd tank buster. I get hit with the add and the boss. Wipe.

Mage rages more about the tanks not knowing what they’re doing, leader of the group asks everyone if we need new tanks? Some people are supportive of us highlighting that the content is literally 5 hours old, most are silent.

Mage leaves, fill group, 4th pull- We can’t get to the swap, add doesn’t die fast enough, my buddy couldn’t get the golden orb. Wipe.

At this point, there are comments about us not being geared enough (I’m at 304 iLvl and buddy is at 310), watching a video before joining the group as tanks (we did read up on the changes between normal and heroic), and just overall blaming the tanks.
We decided it wasn’t worth it, thanked the group for the attempts and leave.

Is this expected from a group listed as relaxed? Does the rest of the community just expect tanks to be perfect at the game even when the content is literally 5 hours old?

I faced toxicity in the past, but never really for brand new content.

Please just get rid of this writing team committee and give it back to Metzen or someone or something please for the love of god

The new quest chain is clearly lacking on spawn rate (not for the first time) and yet again, we have to have these petty tag-fests that surely in 2026 we're beyond.

What's worse is rather than just tagging a mob, people throw every frigging CD they have to annihilate in a heartbeat when there's plenty of others nearby clearly looking for the same things.

This level of entitelent and selfishness is not remotly unexpected, but it's still pityful to have to engage with.

Warhammer Online (which WoW stole plenty from at the time) managed world quest player events that scale to local populations 20 years ago. Guildwars 2 still manages it today. Why do bliz have to throw crumbs and giggle as the peasents trip over eachother trying to eat them :|

--these comments are hysterical :)

This might just be my impression but my thought is that these bosses were supposed to be like introductory mythic bosses to heroic only raiding teams. DO NOT TRY THIS ON MYTHIC AS A HEROIC TEAM.

I did multiple pulls of this last night and it feels harder than at least M Twin Fangs. You can bonus roll all you need off Heroic. So there is no reward reason to even do this on Mythic. I'm not quite sure where this is supposed to fit in the difficulty curve but from my impression it's supposed to be a boss you can pull like 10-15 times as a decent team (which is what Nymrissa was) and feel like you're getting through it, but got nowhere close.

Some issues:
Your tank is getting absolutely blasted by raid mechanics because of how the tank buster works. Hitting a Bomber Beetle early puts an egg in a random place and also melts your raid because you most likely already have a stack rolling. One missed egg is basically a raid wipe. I'm all for difficult bosses but the rewards don't match the difficulty and like who even is this for? Guilds that already killed Ula'tek?

This seemed like a fun break from Coiled Altar prog, but just like how is this supposed to fit in and how does it align with their goals for lair bosses.

Instead of constantly pushing new content, what if Blizzard used one of these patches to focus entirely on fixing the game, both major and minor issues? Or even took a major patch off from raids to tackle bigger projects like updated character models, new skeletons, more animations, and expanded customization options.

I’d rather see WoW take a step back occasionally to improve the foundation of the game than constantly add new content while old issues pile up.

Would you be okay with sacrificing a content patch for meaningful long-term improvements, i know something similar is coming in the Last Titan but i think every expansion could use a patch dedicated to cleaning up!

Although, to be fair, I did Ky'veza on an arcane mage and did this guy on a resto shaman.

I’m a retail player myself and thoroughly enjoy the game end-to-end.

I just see so many posts about how the game isn’t “good” in essence. Ngl it’s disheartening to see, it won’t stop me from playing the game obviously but nonetheless it’s not fun seeing fellow Retailers hate on a product that we all call our virtual home.

I get it, retail will never have the hype/support Forever is coming with but still, why not enjoy what we have with retail?

Pushing aside reward structure, environment design, aesthetics, Torghast was significantly more fun, engaging, challenging, and enjoyable than Delves.

Powers were engaging and made every run feel different. Bosses weren't perfect, but were honestly not much different than Delve bosses currently. The gameplay had some variety with the Jailer's gauntlet boss rush version and the 16 floor Twisted Corridor run to get the Maw Mount.

If Torghast had given Heroic raid equivalent gear at the time instead of timegated legendary slop they'd be one of the most fondly remembered WOW systems of all time.

Delves are the vanilla ice cream version of Torghast with basically nothing interesting going on. Delve companions are a total downgrade versus tower powers.

I'd be curious how you could even argue for Delve gameplay being better than Torghast. What is your reasoning if you disagree with me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKOYV98XFt8

Considering this is literally the only mechanic that I and several other players I know died to, I thought I'd make a quick demonstration of how to deal with the only bad overlap in the fight.

And if you're a death knight, I'm very happy for you :)

I still don’t understand why we have a leveling thing in retail. I wish they would either delete it, or make it enjoyable, and I would very much like a proper leveling journey. Not something like Forever because it wouldn’t make sense. But at least with challenging open world, coherent timeline, without the crazy level scaling etc…

Do you think there is any chance we get content outside of « endgame » in retail ?

For me: Inky Black Potions. Love those things.

Sadge