r/SuicideWatch • • Sep 03 '19

New wiki on how to avoid accidentally encouraging suicide, and how to spot covert incitement

1.8k Upvotes

We've been seeing a worrying increase in pro-suicide content showing up here and, and also going unreported. This undermines our purpose here, so we wanted to highlight and clarify our guidelines about both direct and indirect incitement of suicide.

We've created a wiki that covers these issues. We hope this will be helpful to anyone who's wondering whether something's okay here and which responses to report. It explains in detail why any validation of suicidal intent, even an "innocent" message like "if you're 100% committed, I'll just wish you peace" is likely to increase people's pain, and why it's important to report even subtle pro-suicide comments. The full text of the wiki's current version is below, and it is maintained at /r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement.

We deeply appreciate everyone who gives responsive, empathetic, non-judgemental support to our OPs, and we particularly thank everyone who's already been reporting incitement in all forms.

Please report any post or comment that encourages suicide (or that breaks any of the other guidelines in the sidebar) to the moderators, either by clicking the "report" button or by sending us a modmail with a link. We deal with all guideline violations that are reported to us as soon as we can, but we can't read everything so community reports are essential. If you get a PM that breaks the guidelines, please report it both to the reddit sitewide admins and to us in modmail.

Thanks to all the great citizens of the community who help flag problem content and behaviour for us.


/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement


Summary

It's important to respect and understand people's experiences and emotions. It's never necessary, helpful, or kind to support suicidal intent. There are some common misconceptions (discussed below) about suicidal people and how to help them that can cause well-meaning people to inadvertently incite suicide. There are also people online who incite suicide on purpose, often while pretending to be sympathetic and helpful.

Validate Feelings and Experiences, Not Self-Destructive Intentions

We're here to offer support, not judgement. That means accepting, with the best understanding we can offer, whatever emotions people express. Suicidal people are suffering, and we're here to try to ease that by providing support and caring. The most reliable way we know to de-escalate someone at risk is to give them the experience of feeling understood. That means not judging whether they should be feeling the way they are, or telling them what to do or not do.

But there's an important line to draw here. There's a crucial difference between empathizing with feelings and responding non-judgmentally to suicidal thoughts, and in any way endorsing, encouraging, or validating suicidal intentions or hopeless beliefs. It's both possible and important to convey understanding and compassion for someone's suicidal thoughts without putting your finger on the scale of their decision.

Anything that condones suicide, even passively, encourages suicide. It isn't supportive and does not help. It also violates reddit's sitewide rules as well as our guidelines. Explicitly inciting suicide online is a criminal offense in most jurisdictions.

Do not treat any OP's post as meaning that will definitely die by suicide and can't change their minds or be helped. Anyone who's able to read the comments here still has a chance to choose whether or not to try to keep living, even if they've also been experiencing intense thoughts of suicide, made a suicide plan, or started carrying it out.

In the most useful empirical model we have, the desire to die by suicide primarily comes from two interpersonal factors; alienation and a sense of being a burden or having nothing to offer. These factors usually lead to a profound feeling of being unwelcome in the world.

So, any acceptance or reinforcement of suicidal intent, even something "innocent" like "I hope you find peace", is actually a form of covert shunning that validates a person's sense that they're unwelcome in the world. It will usually add to their pain even if kindly meant and gently worded.

How to Avoid Validating Suicidal Intent

Keep the following in mind when offering support to anyone at risk for suicide.

  • People who say they don't want help usually can feel better if they get support that doesn't invalidate their emotions. Unfortunately, many popular "good" responses are actually counterproductive. In particular, many friends and family tend to rely exclusively on trying to convince the suicidal person that "it's not so bad", and this is usually experienced as "I don't understand what you're going through and I'm not going to try". People who've had "help" that made them feel worse don't want any more of the same. It doesn't mean that someone who actually knows how to be supportive can't give them any comfort.

  • Most people who are suicidal want to end their pain, not their lives. It's almost never true that death is the only way to end these people's suffering. Of course there are exceptional situations, and we certainly acknowledge that, for some people, the right help can be difficult to find. But preventing someone's suicide doesn't mean prolonging their suffering if we do it by giving them real comfort and understanding.

  • An unfixable problem doesn't mean that a good life will never be possible. We don't have to fix or change anything to help someone feel better. It's important to keep in mind that the correlation between our outer circumstances and our inner experience is weaker and less direct than commonly assumed. For every kind of difficult life situation, you will find some people who lapse into suicidal despair, and others who cope amazingly well, and a whole spectrum in between. A key difference is how much inner resilience the person has at the time. This can depend on many personal and situational factors. But when there's not enough, interpersonal support can both compensate for its absence and help rebuild it. We go into more depth on the "it gets better" issue in this PSA Post which is always linked from our sidebar (community info on mobile) guidelines.

  • There are always more choices than brutally forcing someone to stay alive or passively letting them end their lives.

To avoid accidentally breaking the anti-incitement rule, don't say or try to imply that acting on suicidal thoughts is a good idea, or that someone can't turn back or is already dead. Do whatever you can to help them feel cared for and welcome, at least in this little corner of the world. Our talking tips offer more detailed guidance.

Look Out for Deliberate Incitement. It May Come in Disguise.

Often comments that subtly encourage suicidal intent actually come from suicide fetishists and voyeurs (unfortunately this is a real and disturbing phenomenon). People like this are out there and the anonymous nature of reddit makes us particularly attractive to them.

They will typically try to scratch their psychological "itch" by saying things that push people closer to the edge. They often do this by exploiting the myths that we debunked in the bullet points above. Specifically you might see people doing the following:

  • Encouraging the false belief that the only way suicidal people can end their pain is by dying. There are always more and better choices than "brutally forcing someone to stay alive" or helping (actively or passively) them to end their lives.

  • Creating an artificial and toxic sense of "solidarity" by linking their encouragement of suicide to empathy. They will represent themselves as the only one who really understand the suicidal person, while either directly or indirectly encouraging their self-loathing emotions and self-destructive impulses. Since most people in suicidal crisis are in desperate need to empathy and understanding, this is a particularly dangerous form of manipulation.

Many suicide inciters are adept at putting a benevolent spin on their activities while actually luring people away from sources of real help. A couple of key points to keep in mind:

  • Skilled suicide intervention -- peer or professional -- is based on empathic responsiveness to the person's feelings that reduces their suffering in the moment. Contrary to pop-culture myths, it does not involve persuasion ("Don't do it!"), cheerleading ("You've got this!") or meaningless false promises ("Trust me, it gets better!"), or invalidation ("Let me show you how things aren't as bad as you think!"). Anyone who leads others to expect these kinds of toxic responses, or any other response that prolongs their pain, from expert help may be covertly pro-suicide. (Of course, people sometimes do have bad experience when seeking mental-health treatment, and it's fine to vent about those, but processing our own disappointment and frustration is entirely different from trying to destroy someone else's hope of getting help.)

  • Choices made by competent responders are always informed by the understanding that breaching someone's trust is traumatic and must be avoided if possible. Any kind of involuntary intervention is an extremely unlikely outcome when someone consults a clinician or calls a hotline. (Confidentiality is addressed in more detail in our Hotlines FAQ wiki). The goal is always to provide all help with the client's full knowledge and informed consent. We know that no individual or system is perfect. Mistakes that lead to bad experiences do sometimes happen to vulnerable people, and we have enormous sympathy for them. But anyone who suggests that this is the norm might be trying to scare people away from the help they need.

Please let us know discreetly if you see anyone exhibiting these or similar behaviours. We don't recommend trying to engage with them directly.


r/SuicideWatch • • Sep 10 '21

Please remember that NO ACTIVISM of any kind is ever allowed here. No matter what day it is.

718 Upvotes

Activism, i.e. advocating or fundraising for social change or raising awareness of social issues (and suicide is, inescapably, a social issue) is absolutely against the rules here at all times.

Please understand that we're all for smart, strategic mental-health and suicide-prevention activism. It's essential to fight against stigma, misinformation, and discrimination, and to fight for research, treatment, accommodation, acceptance, and understanding. Most of us, one way or another, are mental-health activists IRL.

But activism just doesn't work in a dedicated support space that serves a vulnerable population. We used to allow it but the evidence that it was undermining our primary purpose became overwhelming. We do regret the need for this rule, but the need is inescapable.

Our population is all too well aware of the issues and causes that need support and largely not in a position to take action, so besides the fact that activism is often salt in our community's wounds, it's a waste of the activists' time.

tl;dr Any fundraising, awareness raising, petitions, calls for participation, or any post that's about any cause or issue (rather than a request for personal support) is not allowed here. Please report everything of the nature that you see.


r/SuicideWatch • • 47m ago

LIFE IN NORTH AFRICA ITS LIKE HELL , I WANT TO SUICIDE

• Upvotes

Hello, I am a person living in North Africa, specifically in Algeria. I was born into a conservative Islamic family and I am 19 years old. I suffer from very difficult social and personal circumstances. Living in a conservative Muslim society, while I am essentially a non-religious person, poses a arduous challenge for me.

No one knows that I am not a Muslim, and if I were to reveal that, I might face abandonment or threats, which could even reach the point of murder by my family or people neighboring me. Living with them means adhering to their Islamic rules, such as talking to girls or going out with them being portrayed as a sin or disgrace in my society. In addition, I am forced to go to the mosque and pray despite myself... Furthermore, I am poor and do not have a job despite my severe need for money in my university studies. I suffer from symptoms of severe depression and loss of passion, in addition to being afflicted with extreme obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). I can no longer tolerate it, I want suicide, I did not choose to live like this, I just wanted to live as a human being.


r/SuicideWatch • • 2h ago

There isn’t a single nice person on this planet

19 Upvotes

I hate my entire life and everyone I’ve ever met. No one has ever been there for me when I needed them, no one has ever been nice to me and I can honestly say I’ve never had a happy day in my entire life at 27M it’s completely over for me. I was robbed of my youth I have no real family no friends and a terrible job. At my job I don’t make any real money and I get treated like dirt by customers all day. I should just go back to cutting myself. I genuinely have nothing to look forward to. I can’t afford a car, I can’t afford clothes I can barely afford to live on top of still living with my father. My life is an embarrassment and a joke I can’t afford college and never went after high school. I have nothing but terrible memories in my head and a past where I was alone and failed by everyone around me and I don’t have any meaningful future ahead of me I’ll be alone forever, poor, uneducated, hate filled loser who’s never even had a girlfriend and no matter how hard I try fails at everything with noting to live for I’m dead already my body just hasn’t fallen over yet.


r/SuicideWatch • • 9h ago

Zero Friends

61 Upvotes

How many of you got literally zero friends? Like, absolutely none to reach out in case you got into trouble.


r/SuicideWatch • • 8h ago

I almost died

30 Upvotes

Saturday night I overdosed. Took a bunch of different pills. Unfortunately, my mom was home and found me after I collapsed, though I don’t remember that. I blacked out about 30 minutes after taking the pills and only remember bits of that night. It was so, so peaceful. It was like I was floating. There was no pain at all. I didn’t feel sick. I just fell asleep. Then I started to fade in and out of consciousness. Woke up at one point throwing up and talking to my mom, then blacked out and came to surrounded by the paramedics asking me what I took, then next thing I know I was in the hospital throwing up and having severe hallucinations. At no point did I feel any pain. I’m assuming it’s probably from the mixed pills and the amount I took. The doctors/nurses described it as a ‘bad overdose’ aka- I would’ve died. I SHOULD’VE died. And now, that is all I think about. How I would’ve died and didn’t. How peaceful it felt. No pain.

I literally felt, absolutely, nothing. NOTHING. It was the most beautiful thing I’ve ever experienced. And now, I can’t experience that again. That will haunt me. I was so, so close to it, and it didn’t hurt. Death welcomed me with open arms, and my mother tore me away.


r/SuicideWatch • • 18h ago

Cruelty is becoming more normalized

166 Upvotes

People have always been shitty, but something about how people are acting these days is different. Idk if it’s just me, but I don’t like it and I really don’t want to be around to see it get even worse.


r/SuicideWatch • • 14h ago

I have to die in a few hours and I am again feeling scared

65 Upvotes

I am supposed to die tonight by jumping, in just a few hours. It's night and everybody is asleep. If I want to, I can even do it right now. I just need to make sure no one notices, but I am just so scared.

On top of that, all the balcony railings are so high in this house. I need to go to the open corridor and jump from there, which means a double fear of someone catching me, and it will just completely ruin my family's reputation and make life even worse for me.

I wish I had some easier way out. I know that if I am able to just go from here, making sure no one notices, I will be able to succeed; there is no chance of surviving from the 18th floor, but I am so so so scared. What if someone catches me, or what if I am not able to do it? I know that people who actually want to kill themselves just do it rather than typing this nonsense, but I am such a coward.

I really really want to die, but why is this soooo difficult? If only I had a little more courage and another way, but I will try; maybe I will succeed at this too. It's not even that difficult; many people jump from their houses. If they can, I should be able to as well. It will end all the pain permanently


r/SuicideWatch • • 8h ago

I just want to die tonight

15 Upvotes

I don't think I've ever felt more tired in my life. I just want to wake up to see the sunset then run out in the road and get hit by a car. I'm so tired. I'm so done fighting. Please don't tell me it gets better I can't bare to hear that again. I just really want to die.


r/SuicideWatch • • 2h ago

Being a teacher ruined my life

5 Upvotes

I've worked so hard on my mental health for the last couple years as I've been having all sort of suicidal thoughts since my early teenage years.

But since I've become a teacher weeks ago, I've relapsed.

I genuinely don't think I can do it anymore, but quitting is not an option atp.

I tried to hang myself last week but I failed. Now I'm thinking maybe I can throw myself out of my window or try taking different combinations and doses of medicines ... Idk what can actually help me. Even death seems unachievable

I have no one to talk to in real life, people here don't take mental health seriously, they think I'm being immature, brat or just lazy, and that I shouldn't quit this job no matter how horrible the working conditions are.

So this seems like the only solution, I should've ended things earlier tho


r/SuicideWatch • • 3h ago

i can’t

4 Upvotes

everything is going wrong and honestly i shouldn’t be here im not wanted i can’t fight anymore when it never ends i just need to clean and leave things nice for whoever has to deal with them then hopefully soon ill jump 8 stories should be enough right?


r/SuicideWatch • • 10h ago

I can’t live without him

18 Upvotes

Today we put down my dog. It was so sudden. I just can’t live without him. He’s my best friend. He got me through my other dog’s death. He came at a time that was incredibly hard. He was the reason I kept fighting, because he wouldn’t know why I’d done it or where I went. I didn’t want him to feel I’d abandoned him. But now… I have nothing. I don’t want to be here without him. I don’t want to wake up tomorrow and not immediately say good morning to him. I don’t want to come home to an empty house. I want my baby back. I know it was the right decision but the whole time all I could think was that I wanted to go with him. That I should go with him. That if he’s not here then neither will I be. I just can’t make it through this shitty life without him. I don’t think I’ve ever truly been closer to doing it. I don’t know when but I imagine everything will get worse and all it’ll take is one bad day where I need my handsome boy to snuggle with me and he won’t be there.


r/SuicideWatch • • 4h ago

False accusations have ruined my life

6 Upvotes

I have left school, lost all of my friends, and am now isolated from everybody because of them. I (male) went to a party of all Women. One of them brought drugs, most of them used, and some got sick. Somebody started telling other people about it, and they decided they needed a bigger, more shocking story to cover up the drug story.

What was the natural, logical solution?
“___ raped me at that party”
I didn’t have 1 moment alone with any of them at any point. They all know that. Yet they’re all feeding into the rumors, and have caused the people I literally lived for to shun me from their lives. My best friend, who has saved my life many times, explained to me yesterday that she is “getting shit from everyone for being my friend”.

I sit in my room for 20 hours a day. I don’t sleep. I have 2 online friends. That’s it.

I’m planning on quitting my job this January, spending my money on the things I love (Food, Video Games, ect) and spending my final days having fun. My birthday is when I have decided I’ll slit my wrists and move on to whatever awaits me.

Fuck you, B. You ruined everything.


r/SuicideWatch • • 54m ago

Lonely

• Upvotes

I don’t know why I bother with this world. Im extremely lonely, I don’t have any friends, I never got to be a relationship even as an adult now, my parents still hate and don’t accept me for who I am. I dont understand why I was born if my parents were never going to care about me or even acknowledge how horrible my mental health has always been.

Maybe I should just die at this point. Im literally a waste of oxygen, but instead I just stare at the walls. Maybe it’s just a comfort than thinking about how meaningless life has always been for me.

The world is better off without me.


r/SuicideWatch • • 1h ago

Isolation has ruined my life

• Upvotes

I don’t have anyone now. I don’t have the motivation to go out or try and meet new people. I’ve lost all my friends including my childhood best friend of 15 years. It’s my fault.
The loneliness is driving me insane but not a single bone in my body wants to go out and talk to people.
All I’ve done for the past 4 years is go to and from work at my shitty part time job, then I get home and rot away in my room until my next shift. I don’t have the energy or mindset to break this loop.
No one’s life would change if I died tomorrow.


r/SuicideWatch • • 1h ago

I can’t stand hairloss

• Upvotes

Im a dude, 22, and hairloss has become my breaking point. I have been molested, berated, and treated like utter shit by other. I was isloared on a ranch as a farm hand for 2 years. I can forget about that stuff but I can’t forget about hairloss. My hair feel out due to stress and now I don’t know if it’s receding or if was always like that. I’ll probably stick around a bit longer but after my hairs gone im gone. No reason to hate myself for the rest of my life.


r/SuicideWatch • • 4h ago

My own wasted potential is killing me

4 Upvotes

I used to be a gifted kid. I grew up scoring 100s on everything with little effort and was constantly told that I was going to make it far in life, but when shit went downhill in middle school I was never able to recover. Now I’m attending the very last university I wanted to go to. Hearing about other people kills me because I could have easily had the life they do if people were just a little more attentive to me when I was younger and noticed that I very clearly had clinical depression which I’m still paying the price for years later. I feel like I’m so far behind everyone else. Everyone else seems to know how to be a human being while I didn’t even know how to talk to people until a few years back. I hate being a gifted kid. I spent the most important years of my life doing nothing because I didn’t think that I could. I never learned how to try because things used to come to me so easily, now they don’t at all.


r/SuicideWatch • • 4h ago

slammed 27mg of ativan, an edible and a 7% vodka lemonade NSFW

4 Upvotes

As the title said, took all that about an hour ago. I've taken close amounts to this before and been fine (30+mg of ativan and edibles, no alchohol, and 12mg of ativan, edibles, and 2 drinks before)

I didn't take this all this time with the intention of killing myself, but if I die I also don't care, yk?

I'm just so lonely. My life is literally meaningless. I have absolutely crippling social anxiety and PTSD from childhood SA, and I don't have any close friends or a partner or anything. I wish I had someone.

Idk why I'm even posting this. I just wanted to tell SOMEBODY in case I do actually kick it? dramatic i know lol...

Could anybody just talk to me maybe?


r/SuicideWatch • • 1h ago

Ab to do it

• Upvotes

Ngl the people that wanna kill themselves actually do it vs the “suicidal ones” idk I’m lowkey really suicidal rn and I’ll prob jus hang myself and they will find me tomorrow but like some ppl really don’t wanna die because they post here and wait for comments and stuff telling them to stay it’s lowkey crazy 😂


r/SuicideWatch • • 13h ago

Might take my life NSFW

21 Upvotes

I said to my therapist that my life feels like just about copeable suffering, punctuated by horrendous indescribable anxiety and depression and hopelessness. I’m also chronically ill. I have a partner who I love incredibly. But being in a loving relationship doesn’t change the constant torture in my mind. I’m so so close to making plans to take my life. I obviously would prefer to live and to see if life improves, but there’s so much about my existence and experience that makes continuing feel impossible, and it has been a good few decades now, since I was tiny. I don’t think anyone should have to live like this.


r/SuicideWatch • • 20h ago

Horrible teenage memory is killing me NSFW

63 Upvotes

Hey guys. I don’t expect any sympathy for what I’ve done here but I don’t know what else to do regarding it.

When I was 14, I remember watching a movie called ”mid90s”. It was made in 2018 and directed by jonah hill

In this movie, there’s a scene between 2 characters, a woman 16 and a boy 13. In real life however, The woman was actually 22 and the boy 11 or 12. The 2 make out. I remember at my age I was attracted to the older woman or possibly (and this is what scares me) the whole scenario / situation. I’ve seen a lot of discourse online about how it sickening the scene is and how gross it made people feel. I don’t understand how I could even possibly enjoy it, and I’m not sure how this was even legalized? I understand there’s precautions in making movies regarding child actors but this just seems too far.

I feel tremendously sick to my stomach and awful. I have a tremendous fear of being a pedophile and now I fear I’ve already acted on it and offended. If I’ve offended I don’t deserve to get help. I am more then willing to commit if I’ve crossed that line. What do you guys think?

As I reflect, I think maybe I tried to justify it at the time by looking at the child’s age fictionally (13) and told myself “ he’s only 1 year younger than me “. But again i don’t remember well. its been like 4 years at this point


r/SuicideWatch • • 5h ago

One Simple Thing

5 Upvotes

I’m such a fuck up. I’m so bad at being human. I’m just a pathetic loser who can’t do anything without having an anxiety attack or breakdown first. I’m trying so hard but I can’t stop the panic or the rage, and it ruins everything. I know my wife is hurt and disappointed in me. I wish I could show her I can take care of our family but I’m drowning and I don’t want to take them down with me. I just want to be quiet for awhile.


r/SuicideWatch • • 10h ago

I have a suicidal friend.

8 Upvotes

Im actually gagging and crying . I cant lose them. I cant lose them but i also cant do anything about it. IM SO WORRIED WHAT DO I DO

Im actually worried its not funny please what do i do what do i do what do i do


r/SuicideWatch • • 2h ago

Mash (early help) suddenly saying I don’t need an assessment after previously telling me I did. I feel completely dismissed.

2 Upvotes

I’m honestly so frustrated and I need to vent because I genuinely don’t know what to do anymore.
I’ve been struggling with my mental health for a long time, and I’ve been fighting to get a proper assessment for ages. I suspect I might have BPD, although I’m not trying to diagnose myself, and I just want someone to actually listen to me and help me understand what’s going on.
During my first session with a worker, I was told that I needed a therapist and a mental health assessment. I finally felt like someone was taking me seriously and that I might actually get somewhere with this.
However, things have apparently changed, and now my parents have been told that I don’t need a mental health assessment and that I just need to use the coping strategies I’ve learnt previously.
The problem is that I can’t. I’ve tried using those strategies, and they don’t address the actual issue I’m struggling with. My emotions can change so rapidly that I genuinely struggle to manage them, and it feels like I’m being told to use techniques that aren’t working instead of anyone trying to understand WHY I’m struggling in the first place.
I’m not saying coping strategies are useless, but how am I supposed to make progress when I feel like my concerns aren’t even being properly assessed? How can I go from being told I need an assessment and a therapist to suddenly being told I don’t need either?
It’s especially upsetting because I’ve been trying to get help for so long. I don’t want to self-diagnose, but I do want the opportunity to be assessed by someone qualified who can help me figure out what’s actually happening. I’m scared that everything is being brushed off without anyone properly investigating it.
I keep wondering whether this is all being attributed to autism, but I don’t understand how anyone can confidently conclude that without properly assessing the other difficulties I’ve been describing.
I feel angry, dismissed, and honestly quite hopeless about getting help through CAMHS/MASH at this point. I don’t want someone to simply agree with my suspicions about BPD; I want someone to take my struggles seriously enough to help me understand them.
Has anyone else experienced something similar with CAMHS, where you’ve been told you need an assessment and then suddenly been told you don’t? What did you do, and is there any way to challenge that decision or ask for a proper explanation?


r/SuicideWatch • • 9h ago

i need to be put down like a dog

8 Upvotes

i’m the most desperate person you’ll ever meet

pathetic and loving

just waiting to be loved back

this is cringe asf bye don’t mind me i’m going crazy rn