r/PoursTea • Timendi Causa Est Nescire • 10h ago

⚠️Trigger Warning⚠️ There's a clear difference.

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u/Shido_Ohtori 10h ago

"Perceived victimhood, authoritarianism, populism, and white identity are the most powerful predictors of support for violence, though military service, conspiratorial thinking, anxiety, and feelings of powerlessness are also related."

Studies also show that "radical acts perpetrated by individuals associated with left-wing causes are less likely to be violent. In the United States, we find no difference between the level of violence perpetrated by right-wing and Islamist extremists.", and numerous investigations show that "right-wing populists are generally more likely to justify political violence compared to mainstream voters and non-voters".

Conservatism -- by definition -- is "a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing the importance of established hierarchies and institutions (such as religion, the family, and class structure), and preferring gradual development to abrupt change".

The sole value of conservatism is respect for and obedience to [one's perception of] traditionally established hierarchy, and hierarchy dictates that those on top (in-groups) are rightfully idolized and receive privileges, credibility, and resources, while those on the bottom (out-groups) are demonized/dehumanized and/or bound by restrictions, scrutiny, and lack of resources.

To them, the second-greatest injustice imaginable is for those [they perceive to be] on top [of social hierarchy] to be bound by the restrictions, scrutiny, and lack of resources reserved for those on the bottom. The first greatest injustice is for those on the bottom to have access to the rights, credibility, and resources reserved for those on top.

Conservatives absolutely need an underclass [for society] to demonize and dehumanize in order to maintain [their] hierarchy, and every single one of their policies and rhetoric work to do exactly that. Unless the accusation is one of disrespecting hierarchy, every right-wing accusation is a confession -- every. single. one; always! -- as it is never the act itself that upsets them, but rather, the social standing of the person doing the act, as said act is a privilege meant for those on top of [their perceived] hierarchy (See also: pedophilia - Trump and the Catholic church versus LGBTQ+ and drag queens; protests - January 6th vs. BLM and No Kings; parental rights - anti-LGBTQ+ vs pro-LGBTQ+; indoctrination - religion vs. education).

Those who believe all people are people see hypocrisy, while those who believe some people are "more/less" people than others see hierarchy. Hypocrisy implies a sense of equality/parity, as the accusation of such is that someone is violating a universal or common standard. Hierarchy directly states that there is no equality/parity, that different social strata have different standards, that the only universal standard concerning hierarchy is that those on top are allowed privileges which are denied to those on the bottom, and that the bottom are held to standards which the top are exempt from.

"Know your place" is their mantra.

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u/CaterpillarJungleGym 8h ago

I once took this morality survey thing. It was intense and took a while. And everything was on a scale, it wasn't a just yes/no. At the end they ask you to rate where you see yourself on a political like spectrum. Those that were conservative tended to value things like obedience and maintaining order. Whereas people who were more in the other side valued individualism and free thinking. That was like 20 something years ago. Can't remember who had the poll but the data visualization was on point.

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u/Shido_Ohtori 8h ago

Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind offer insight from the conservative perspective concerning morality, via five sets of moral intuitions: Harm/care, Fairness/reciprocity, In-group/loyalty, Authority/respect, and Purity/sanctity. Conservatives endorsed all five equally, while liberals consistently showed greater endorsement and use of the Harm/care and Fairness/reciprocity foundations.

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u/CaterpillarJungleGym 8h ago

I'm not sure I fully follow. Are we saying purity/sanctity is one thing? Where is the opposite. Should it be purity/creativity? Loyalty/openness. Fairness/Justice

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u/Shido_Ohtori 8h ago

While those are the terms the study I provided use, Haidt himself used the following dichotomies in his book (elaborated upon on pages 110-126, and summarized on page 127):

Care/harm, fairness/cheating, loyalty/betrayal, authority/subversion, sanctity/degradation.

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u/CaterpillarJungleGym 8h ago

Those don't seem equivalent in neutrality. Sanctity vs degradation are harsh. Sanctity vs change is more neutral. I'm guessing this author came to an interesting conclusion.

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u/Shido_Ohtori 7h ago

The author's politics lean right, so the harshness comes as no surprise. My analysis of conservatism is partly influenced by his concepts of "[moral] purity": how such define the apex of their perceived [social] hierarchy, how they promote illusions that if one strives to become/honor/respect said apex that they will be among the "in-group", how they spend countless amounts of energies to ensure that those who do not strive to become/honor/respect -- or, heaven forbid, work in the opposite direction of -- said apex are among the "out-group".

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u/CaterpillarJungleGym 7h ago

That's interesting because then inherently a trad wife or SAHM would never be be striving for honor, respect, apex of greatness. And therefore would never be considered upper echelon or part of the in-group. Also even more interesting that the Conservative women are of the in group even though they aren't trad wives and SAHMs. So perplexing.

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u/Shido_Ohtori 7h ago

A trad wife or SAHM would be "striving for honor, respect, apex of greatness" within her socially-accepted station; for example, she can rise to be head of a women's church group, but not in any positions of authority that are specifically reserved for a man. She will be among the upper echelons within her social group, and may even be respected outside for her social status, but she will never be allowed to "step out from her place" into something that's perceived as rightfully belonging to a man.

Concerning conservative women -- and "class traitors" in general -- the issue is that most people subscribe to hierarchical institutions [on some level] already -- such as classism, ageism, genderism, religion, machismo culture, corporate culture, military, school, et cetera -- and until they are willing and able to challenge the concepts of hierarchy and consider how such are not only incompatible with -- but diametrically-opposed and anathema to -- the concepts of equality and egalitarianism, they will fall victim into demonizing and dehumanizing an "out-group" at the behest of those they consider socially superior. Each and every single one of them truly believe that by doing so, they secure their place among the in-group, never realizing security is a privilege far above their station.

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u/CaterpillarJungleGym 7h ago edited 7h ago

Makes sense. Psychologically speaking. It's a lot of if/then rationalizing. They have steadfast heirarchies and rules but certain things can not confirm and instead of a gray area, it gets immediately classified within the hierarchy.

Edit: I wonder if there are certain mental disorders related to hyper-rigidity of societal structure and roles. Though I guess those folks would never have been sent to an institution before like 20 years.

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u/Shido_Ohtori 7h ago

From Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

Rational conservatives maintain that a community with a hierarchy of authority is most conducive to human well-being.

Confucius is another possible precursor. His concern with the breakdown of contemporary political institutions led to a cautious, conservative political outlook; his stress on authority and hierarchy prefigures central conservative themes.

With the Enlightenment, the natural order or social hierarchy, previously largely accepted, was questioned.

Western conservatism is a product from the Age of Enlightenment -- specifically, a Counter-Enlightenment, a reactionary challenge to the concepts of Humanism. Its philosophers inherently reject[ed] a society governed by logic and reason, human rights and dignity, science and democracy, as its ideology solely appeal to the authority of traditionally established hierarchies.

The very founder of modern Western conservatism insist[ed] with brutal frankness that “illusions” and “prejudices” are socially necessary, today's conservatives have coined the term "alternative facts"; and while I don't have any studies concerning mental disorders per se, I do have studies that show that [search for] truth and intelligence is inversely correlated with conservative ideology.

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u/filthytelestial 7h ago

They're definitely not, you're right. The author is a moderate at best. I don't know why people keep listening to and quoting him.