That they’re so fucking good, and it’s been so fucking long!
Honestly, when I read the first book, it was just after the second had come out. I was so blown away it was insane. About a year later, I was bought the second. I devoured that and was yet more blown away. But I could see it had taken Patrick four years to write the second, so I was mentally prepared for the wait.
Then, when The Slow Regard of Silent Things came out, I was like, nice, exciting, we have new material! That must mean the third book is around the corner. I reread both books, along with the new stuff, hopefully.
Then, in 2016, I got a new girlfriend, and I used to read The Name of the Wind to her down the phone (she is now my fiancée, so defo a hot tip). And at every interval, every reading, every single consideration, I have thought, my God, this is so good, I can’t wait for book three.
And it’s been 15 fucking years, and still no book, no updates, and nothing in sight. At least Rothfuss isn’t getting on like Martin, so hopefully he won’t pop his clogs before it’s done, but Christ alive! How long?
And this is my point. This is what’s so shit about the books: they are actually so good. I haven’t read them in about eight or nine years, and I’m rereading them now. The number of fantasy books I have read since then has grown so unbelievably, but reading them again now, I can honestly say there is just nothing else like them.
This world he has made is so real, so lived-in, so vibrant. The myths, music, legends, religion. The way he writes and the fantasy world itself, its magic and lands and transitions, the races and creatures. It is too good. When compared against almost everything else I have read, there are so many ways in which it stands head and shoulders above them.
And that, honestly, is the worst thing about the books. They are so good, and yet so far from finished.

I'd like help with collecting the references and quotes to the book cataloging system of the archives, the history of it, comments on it. I know this is spread over a few different chapters, one with Fela describing it to Kvothe (when he says he's been thinking of a better way to do it), and probably a few others.

The reason is that I have a friend who in real life just took a job as an archivist for a company with long history (such that historians will use their records for research), and it sounds hilariously like the university's archives. I would like to provide him with Rothfuss quotes from time to time.

From my friend:

The current archivist says anything that happened under X or Y archivist is accurate, but take anything else with a grain of salt. She has a full shelf of catalogues that got made redundant about 20 years ago when a sub-catalogue got discarded. It’s actually hilariously bad and I can’t wait to go quietly insane trying to make sense of it.

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but there is a question that has been staying rent-free in my head: How did Cinder vanish when he ran back to the tent during the attack of Kvothe's group?

As far as I remember, it was night time during the attack and if we were to assume that Haliax had granted every Chandrian member to be able to teleport in the dark (since Haliax is able to use his shadow curse to teleport) then that wouldn't explain Cinder going back into the tent.

We know that there are only 6 revealed magic systems in the world of Temerant and maybe there's an ancient magic system that allows you to teleport from one place to another with the use of symbols that are engraved on the floor (maybe?). That would explain how Cinder managed to get away without a trace.

Maybe their outpost is located on the Stormwal Mountains and they are able to hide from anyone's sight thanks to the symbols that are engraved on their outpost, allowing them to operate in secret missions on their own without needing Haliax to teleport them back to wherever they need to be.

I’ve been thinking about Felurian, Laurian, and the possibility that some of the names we encounter are remnants of an older naming tradition.

So straight off- I’m not saying that Laurian IS Felurian. I’m not saying that Fela is secretly her daughter. I mean something much more ordinary. People name children after religious figures, legendary people, and things they find beautiful. Those names get shortened, adapted, and passed down until the original association isn’t necessarily something anyone thinks about.

Felurian is ancient. She’s also known through human songs and stories. Could some women’s names have come from hers?

Laurian was the resemblance that initially caught my attention. Fela seems worth considering too. There’s also Rian, the student Hemme humiliates during Kvothe’s first sympathy lecture, who goes by Ria. None of those similarities establishes a derivation by itself, but there’s an actual example of someone applying Felurian’s name to a human woman.

When Kvothe meets Denna again at the Eolian, he says: “I could keep thinking of you as Felurian,” I said. “But that could lead to unfortunate confusion.”

And she responds: “Felurian? I might like that if I didn’t think you were a liar.”

Obviously he’s flirting, not filling out a birth certificate. But the association works. He can invoke Felurian as a flattering comparison, and Denna understands exactly what he means. Her name already has legs outside the stories about her.

The geography is interesting too. Fela is Modegan. If Laurian is Netalia Lackless, as seems heavily implied, she has an eastern family connection as well. Felurian is encountered through the Eld. That doesn’t locate her original home, but it does put her within the same broad region of influence.

There’s even a historical connection between those human regions. Caudicus says: “Pieces of what are now Vintas, Modeg, and a large portion of the small kingdoms were all Lackless lands at one point.”

That gives us a possible setting for names and traditions to have circulated before the current borders. I currently can’t establish where Rian comes from, so I won’t count her as evidence for the geographical part.

There’s also a complication with Laurian that I think is worth keeping rather than brushing aside. If she was originally Netalia, Laurian would then obviously be an adopted name. Which means the question could be whether she chose a name with that association. We don’t know, so any further questions down that rabbit hole are speculative (the W questions especially- like why? when? Etc).

There’s also a flower component to this.

Kvothe explicitly connects Verainia’s name to the verian flower. We also have Lily at the Eolian, Aaron’s sweetheart Rose, Holly in Tarbean, and Laurel at Anker’s. So botanical names are an actual convention in the world.

Felurian has a lot of floral imagery around her. Her oath “by my flower” has an obvious sexual meaning, especially since she uses “the woman’s flower” elsewhere. Im pointing towards this so no one corrects me like I didn’t know this. I’m not ignoring it. I just don’t think they’re mutually exclusive.

In the Suvudu crossover Rothfuss wrote, she describes her immortality this way: “I am forever unfurling. I do not wither, neither do I rot. I live forever bright and lithe until I die. and then there is an end to me.”

I wouldn’t use crossover events as KKC history. But it’s still Rothfuss choosing that language to describe her. Forever unfurling is a pretty striking way to characterize someone already associated with beauty, desire, and flowers.

Queen Rinne (Roderic’s wife) and the Rhinna flower might be another example of botanical naming, though that’s a separate possible connection, not evidence that Rinne’s name comes from Felurian.

So the thought isn’t that all these women are secretly related. It’s that the naming culture might preserve associations with ancient figures long after those associations stopped being obvious. A legendary woman becomes an ideal of beauty. Her name becomes something people borrow or adapt. Flower names and names associated with her might overlap, without everyone using them knowing why.

The resemblance alone wouldn’t convince me. The existing botanical names, Felurian’s antiquity, the eastern connections, and Kvothe actually using her name for Denna are what make me think it’s worth looking at together.

Maybe they really are just ALL named after flowers and that’s that. I’m not sure. There are other obvious instances of the -rian suffix. So it seems related, but I totally admit this is speculation and I could be making a pattern out something that’s a coincidence.

Has anyone noticed other examples of ordinary names that might preserve older religious or legendary associations? Especially male names. I’d be interested in whether this is a broader convention we’ve been overlooking. I might follow up with a post about males, but I also thought that could be good conversation here.

I strongly believe the three men we know spoke to Cthaeh are all Lacklesses.

__

KVOTHE IS A LACKLESS

Arliden's song about Laurian calls her 'Tally', and the phrase 'Not tally a lot less' sounds very similar to Netalia Lackless.

• My sweet Tally cannot cook. But she keeps a tidy ledger-book For all her faults, I do confess It’s worth my life To make my wife Not tally a lot less . . .

Laurian grew up a noble but was seduced away by a Ruh, like Netalia.

• Save perhaps that my mother was a noble before she was a trouper. She told me my father had lured her away from “a miserable dreary hell” with sweet music and sweeter words.
• I’d started a second bottle of wine by the time I read that young Netalia Lackless had run away with a troupe of traveling performers. Her parents had disowned her, of course, leaving Meluan the only heir to the Lackless lands.
• My lady has had unfortunate dealings with the Ruh in the past
• A trouper’s tongue has gotten her to bed more quickly than her sister.

Laurian implies she might be Lady Lackless, or one of the Lady Lacklesses.

• I imagine you could make it up to both Lady Lackless and myself if you found some sweet nettle for the pot tonight.

__

LANRE IS A LACKLESS

Lanre was at Drossen Tor, as Lady Lackless' husband was, presumably.

• Then came the Blac of Drossen Tor.
• Seven things has Lady Lackless Keeps them underneath her black dress ('Black dress' is a sound-alike of Blac of Drossen, confirmed in the Spanish translation: The Spanish translation confirms Lady Lackless' "black dress" refers to Blac of Drossen Tor. : r/KingkillerChronicle)

Lanre/Haliax is pictured with a candle that produces black flame, much like the 'candle without light' that belongs to Lady Lackless' husband.

• Right beside her husband’s candle There’s a door without a handle
• One a candle without light
• The other candle sat underneath his outstretched hand: it was grey with a black flame, and the space around it was smudged and darkened.

Lady Lackless' husband's rocks are kept inside a lockless box. Kvothe says the object inside Meluan's lockless box is 'glass or stone'. The mountain glass Selitos uses to break Lanre's binding is a perfect match, since obsidian is an igneous rock and a volcanic glass.

• In a box, no lid or locks Lackless keeps her husband’s rocks
• Selitos stooped to pick up a jagged shard of mountain glass, pointed at one end.
• By the weight of it, perhaps something made of glass or stone.
• Obsidian - Wikipedia Obsidian is a naturally occurring volcanic glass..... It is an igneous rock.

__

IAX IS A LACKLESS

Iax is called unlucky three times. The Lackless family are called 'the luckless'.

• He was an unlucky boy..... Or perhaps it was just that Jax was unlucky as ever..... Or perhaps he was simply unlucky in all things.
• Small wonder they are often called the “Luckless” by their detractors.

Kvothe and Iax both have dark and changing eyes. Kvothe's eyes are like an angry God's.

• this shaper of the dark and changing eye stretched out his hand against the pure black sky.
• But your eyes really do change color.
• the same dark eyes that Chronicler had seen before. Eyes like an angry God’s.

Kvothe and Iax both get a lot of holes in their shirts.

• When he got a new shirt, he would tear a hole in it.
• I seem to be going through a lot of shirts lately.

Kvothe and Iax both are clever.

• My first mentor called me E’lir because I was clever and I knew it.
• Jax made his own way, and he grew up clever and sly.

Kvothe and Iax both have fae qualities.

• Some said he had a drop of faerie blood in him
• He’s a little fae around the edges.

Kvothe also shares a lot with Lanre. Both speak to Cthaeh, both are called above reproach, both kill a black iron scaled beast, both wear shadow, both lose a singer they love, both die or are rumored dead, both change their name, etc.

__

THE YLLISH CONNECTION

I'm not sure of the importance, but Yll seems to be related to the Lackless family somehow.

The Lackless box has Yllish writing on it.

• A thought struck me. “It might be a Yllish story knot.”

The Lackless rhyme uses Yllish dual ownership. Lady Lackless has seven things, but also, 'seven things has Lady Lackless.'

• Seven things has Lady Lackless
• All ownership was oddly dual: as if the Chancellor owned his socks, but at the same time the socks somehow also gained ownership of the Chancellor.

Kvothe calls Denna 'cousin' as a cover story, but sometimes Kvothe's sleeping mind gets things right by accident. Denna knows Yllish, goes to Yll, and her ring appears to have Yllish knots on it.

• “My cousin was here for a wedding,” I said, “and I heard there was some trouble.”
• You stole the silver, or something similar, then ran off to the city. (Denna's white gold ring would be 'something similar' to silver) Denna's Ring in 14k White Gold - DaVinci Emporium

Iax walked east down the great stone road. That puts his starting point near Imre and Tarbean, but also very close to Yll.

• Still he walked, following the great stone road east toward the mountains.
• Map: Temerant | Kingkiller Chronicle Wiki | Fandom

Kvothe has red hair, like Yllish people are known for. Illien is also known for his red hair, and Illien might have once been 'Yllien' (which is possibly a sound-alike for 'alien'). Was Illien a Lackless?

• You looked Yllish. The red hair fooled me.

__

Three men, Iax and his descendants, who speak to Cthaeh which leads to disaster. Which all starts with Iax insulting a Tinker.

• A tinker’s debt is always paid..... Thrice for any insult made.
• Apparently even the Adem know it’s bad luck to be rude to a tinker.

A production is vanishingly unlikely as a unfinished series (I remember reading Lin-Manuel Miranda was close but scuppered by the lack of a final) but it's just occurred to me how difficult it would be to cast Kvothe. The actor would need to be convincingly young but able to slip into different accents and masks seemingly effortlessly, as well as at least doing a great impression of musicianship. The only comparable role I can think of is Jodie Comer's Villanelle in Killing Eve.

Please help me choose between these budget kvothe costumes from some of my favorite parts of the book:

1. Kvothe in the fae.

2. Kvothe in the medica (post whipping)

3. Kvothe sleepover with penthe.

4. Kvothe intimates the clothes shop owner.

5. Kvothe With Elodin on the Roof

I'm also going to pair one of those with a pair of Bast's boots.

If they made a live action , would you prefer they cast 3 actors. About 12, 18 , and 22. For troupe Kvothe, book 1 Kvothe, and Frame story Kvothe.

Or

Just the Troupe Kvothe (12) and Kvothe (18) and just have him with slight make up and padded muscles for future Kvothe

Or

1 actor for a very long shoot like Richard Linklater’s Boyhood. Then edit it together later.

And yes Obviously this is just for 2 seasons and there is no season 3.

This is not so much a formal theory, than more a question.

It's fairly simple. Is Lanre, or rather Haliax, the Iron Law or Tehlin wheel?

The Tehlin Priests are notorious for having a cowl concealing their faces. Just like Haliax. Kvothe even has the irreverent verse of Tinker Tanner which takes a stab at them. "Her morals were hard as a rock - she went to confession, for her true obsession - was in the Tehlin's cassock".

Idk, trivia, amirght. The main obvious thing I've noticed for years is that Lanre says "his is a new and terrible name". And the first Tehlin wheel upon which Encanis was bound and both Tehlu and Encanis passed from the world, was also named; "terrible". Alaxal/Alaxel also sounds phonetically close to "Axle". Kvothe mentions that "Delvari just reinvented the axle and put his name on it". You may note that Hamlets Mill, a book on astrotheology, also names "Koth" or "Kvothe" as the world axle, the pole star, around which the measured turning of the world itself revolves (Pat being cheeky having Kvothe say he can't slap is name on it). Then there is sleeping under the wagon. The under the axle and/or by the (Tehlin) wheels. Mendha[n] axle. Mend an axle. Mendha, son of himself.

Idk. Ofc Kvothe was also brought up before the Iron Law, the infamous story, apparently Chronicler's favorite. The charges were consultation? Lanre also notably wore plate mail forged from the Black Beast of Drossen Tor's corpse. IE, his armor is pure iron and his name is terrible. Just like Tehlu's own iron wheel.

Is the Iron Law a continuation of/founded around Haliax, and NOT Tehlu? And hence why some possible ex-priests abandoned it? Like Trappis? They got too close and found out and abandoned the "faith"? Like Skarpi accuses the ones taking him in, that he doesn't expect them to "go looking for the 7 themselves, small tasks for small men". The priests even specifically say "do not speak Tehlu's name". On the surface it could seem 2B saying what it is saying, "Skarpi's mouth dirties it". But a layer down, the Waystone crowd affirms that "demons" fear Tehlu's name. Kote even seems to shirk at the Waystone when this is said himself. There seems a deeper implication. "There are no demons, only my kind". Kote also notably can mean "disaster" or "dis aster" which means approximately "loss of a star or star of chaos" or whatever you want to associate with Dis/Eris.

Idk. Again. I have no formal theory here, not sure if there is any comprehensive theory on this topic, but it's bothered me off and on for years and I'd love to hear your thoughts! What are we overlooking here? Who really founded or infiltrated/subverted the church of the Iron Law? What is the real significance of the word/name "terrible"? Thanks!

Foi um arco de sentimentos mistos, a cultura dos adem é muito interessante e tem uma forte estética, essa parte do livro deu muito a sensação de um arco de anime, o que foi bem divertido, entretanto eu realmente não gostei dos adem como sociedade, a cultura deles, sua filosofia e estilo de lutas são muito interessante e legais, mas os adem são muito arrogantes, eles são extremamente xenofobicos com todo mundo que não seja do povo deles e acham que apenas as ideias deles são as certas, e o livro parece concordar com isso de certa forma, eles chamam os outros povos de bárbaros por terem expressões faciais pois expressões faciais são coisas naturais e não da sociedade, entretanto os adem são completamente casuais com nudez e sexo, que também são coisas extremamente naturais e instintivas, eles são extremamente hipócritas, além do preconceito deles contra homens, tipo a última conversa do kvouthe com a penthia, entendo que a sociedade dos ademre teve o intuito de representar uma sociedade contrária a nossa em termos de preconceito, onde homens sofrem os preconceitos que as mulheres sofriam na idade média e até os dias de hoje, entretanto não sei se ela foi a melhor forma de fazer isso, a forma que os adem foram escritos é como "respeitem a cultura deles, mas não tem nenhum problema eles não terem nenhum respeito por nenhuma outra cultura e serem abertamente e extremamente preconceituosos, afinal a sua cultura está errada e é como uma camisa velha e suja que você tem que largar para deixar de ser um bárbaro imundo que bebe mijo e se tornar parte da sociedade"

Dito isso, tempi ainda é incrível e eu amo ele

Deixando esse desabafo de lado, a cultura adem ainda é muito incrível e essa parte do livro foi bem legal de se ler, foi muito interessante ver que os adem realmente não tem nenhuma habilidade mágica e são só muito fodas, foi interessante ver o kvouthe sair da zona de conforto e treinar com algo que ele não é um prodígio, ele é bom, mas não é um gênio, a quebra de expectativa no teste da pedra foi bem legal por isso, na maioria das histórias o kvouthe pensaria em uma estratégia mirabolante e conseguiria vencer, mas aqui ele perdeu pois ele é simplesmente inexperiente e não é um grande gênio nisso

I’ve recently been inspired by commenters and posters discussing the composition of various names in the KKC. I’m a longtime lover of etymology, and looking into the time and energy that folks have spent thinking about these things makes me feel, well, behind. Or more positively, wanting to have something focused to chew during for my ump-teenth re-read / re-listen of the stories we have.

Perhaps more personally, I recently started working in hospice care, spending long hours with folks as they reflect on degrading memories of former selves — and so often on their missing perspicacity. Hospice work requires many things, but at its bluntest, I need to stay awake and attentive during hours that my half of the world tends to sleep, and I need to do so relatively silently. So I read. But I want to spend time doing more than consuming or enjoying the books. I want to construct something that reflects my current interests while I still have some facility with exploring them, amateur as it is.

To that end, and as a start, I offer consideration on the name Kvothe. Like many of us, I’m aware this was the name a young Rothfuss adopted and oft applied to DnD characters. It was the first strangeness I remember enjoying way back when, but beside getting friends to pronounce it correctly, I never really explored it. Kvothe’s dad told him it means “to know.”

So we assume that’s wrong, and we invite commentary and direction for future research, though I certainly don’t expect this to be novel. All the same:

Kvothe. Begin with the end. The suffix “-the” is present in several names in the world of KKC. Aethe, Rethe, Penthe. All Ademre. The Sithe, and maybe the Cthaeh. Fae. We have the Centhe Sea. I suppose we have Theden as a unit of time. Since we’re playing with “-the,” might as well mention “teh” and we get Tehlu, though we’re told “teh” is the sygaldry rune for “lock.” Are there others I’m missing?

Depending the language we’re reviewing, the “-the” suffix probably doesn’t indicate an infinitive (nor does Kvo- seem to mean “know”, but we’ll get there). West Germanic tongues like Dutch would use the dental -te to turn adjectives into abstract nouns. Much like -ness, or -th would do in English. Long, Length, Lengte. Deep, Depth, Diepte. Groot, in Dutch, the adjective big, tall, great. Grootte becomes the state of being humongous or greatness. From what I can tell we can trace it back to proto-Germanic -ipo, which Latin turned into -itas, and English -ity. Purity. Gravity. Verity, Veritas…

But what about Gaelic or Celtic languages? For those, -the (or -te) indicates the state of completion, the past participle. Think of those -ed words like ended, but also hidden, or even done. (Irony is a cruel mistress.) Oh, that “do” verb is a fun one, proto-indo-euro “dʰē,” which became something like to make, to cause, to set into motion, to establish. And turns out, Greek took “dʰē” and it became “-the” for passive voice, “-then” for origin words. And we know Arabic and Semitic languages use the “-th-“ and “-t-“ sounds to alter verbs, though I’m less familiar.

That said, we’re going to go with the later half of Kvothe’s name as indicative of the establishment of the abstract. As conception. And maybe that helps us get to “Teh” as lock. We use “-the” to establish and lock something temporary, flowing, or happening into a stable, conceptual, forever idea. Platonic, ideal, mental magic “Forms” of whatever precedes the “-the.” We’re capturing the state of something in our imagination. Since Lu is probably moon, Tehlu is the abstract state of moon locking?

We digress. What is the meaning of “Kvo-“ that we’re capturing with our “-the”? Well, cweðan / quoth, means "to say" and Kvothe himself gives us that as pronunciation assistance. The “State of Saying Things” seems appropriate for a storyteller, a Namer, telling a story about the importance of stories. That meaning is proto-Germanic kweþaną (to say), but we also have “quo” from Latin to consider.

Very different proto root though. Quo like quota, quotient, or quote come from relative pronoun variants of proto-indo-euro kʷo, meaning who or what, in fashions of direction, degree, cause, and MANNER. Quo can refer to something’s absolute condition, as in status quo. Wait, didn’t we already think about status, the state of things on our suffix “-the”? We sure did.

The two pieces of Kvothe could theoretically mean the same thing, something like “The State of Stating.” Stating-ness. More than “to know,” Kvothe could be another one of those doubly named names Rothfuss seems to enjoy. Redundant? Tautological? Or maybe just fun? Kvothe = The State of Stating.

More pulling on the thread and we could unravel Penthe (passion-ness) and the other Ademre. Or check out the Sithe. Old English, Germanic, or Nordic roots Sith or Sið mean “journey, path, forward movement, or crusade.” So then beings eternally devoted to a protective cause are called something like “The State of Forwarding Causes.” Cen- in Gaelic and Germanic roots could mean “gathering, collective, intersection” and so Centhe, “The State of Intersection” is a fine name for a big collected body of water used for commerce and movement.

We’d have to do more work for the Cthaeh — perhaps unpacking “-tha-“ leads down different rabbit holes — and lots to consider in the magic systems of shaping and naming under this lens. But I’ll conclude mentioning that the “-tha-“ word shape shows up in Lethani as well. Trying to capture an abstract, defined form for something that evades concrete articulation may very well be baked into the name of the philosophy itself. Not a path, but maybe “the State of Proper Capturing?” Needs more review, but this type of appreciation and study of the work feels right to me, so perhaps it’s worth following for this year’s re-reads… so I just may.

TL;DR: If we determine the suffix “-the” as creation of abstract concepts for qualities or happenings, Kvothe’s name might mean, somewhat doubly, The State of Stating. Apt for one telling a story that can’t seem to end.

I’m not sure when it changed, but back in the day, Patrick Rothfuss used to have this quote in his Twitter bio: “I'm So Meta, Even This Acronym.”

It’s from a web-comic, but it’s a good example of Patrick Rothfuss’s persona, sense of humor, approach to fiction, interest in metafiction, etc.

Part of me wonders if that quote sheds some light on the real reason for book three’s on-going absence? Is indefinite “silence” of book three (and its author on the subject) some kind of metafictional storytelling choice that concludes the series makes a statement about unreliable narrators of legendary autobiographical accounts?

I couldn’t think of a less reliable narrator than one who falls silent in the third act (either because of natural causes, boredom, depression, anger, or a return to their life as a legend).

The reason I think it’s plausible lies in the recurring, familiar trope in the prologue of each book: “a silence in three parts,” with the third being Kote’s silence. That is, “[t]he patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die"

Kote’s silence is described the same way in the unreleased prologue for Doors of Stone that Rothfuss read on a livestream. With a few changes. Kote undresses beside his bed, which is described as holding the other silences inside itself; deep and wide as autumn's ending, heavy as a river-smooth stone, and "the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die.

Sounds like he’s describing a man that wants to die preparing to climb into his death bed. Alternatively, perhaps it represents Kote’s last night as Kote before deciding to reenter the world as Kvothe. Maybe he took off Kote’s clothes, put on Kvothe’s, and left the Inn behind to close up the loose ends of an unfinished legendary life.

In either case, he wouldn’t be Kote anymore, at the Inn anymore, or focused on relaying his tragic demise if he’s dead or intent on re-emerging as Kvothe.

And so, the third silence belongs to Kote: a man waiting to die who finally retreats into his silence permanently by giving up the ghost (or, if you prefer, a man who took of the mask of Kote, loss interest in telling an unfinished tragedy, and returned to his life to make things right or die trying like the legend he made himself out to be. In either case, he’s no longer available to narrate our narrative.

This book has been signaling from the beginning that the third silence is Kote’s and that it represents a man waiting to die. Whether Kote physically dies or figuratively leaves his false identity behind to be reborn as Kvothe, the third silence from the prologues could signal that Kote’s story was always going to end in silence on the third day because he’d retreat into the silence within him (by dying), or by coming out of hiding.

If either of those two things happen within Rothfuss’s narrative framing, the Chronicler’s manuscript would remain incomplete because there’d be no more narrator (death), or because Kote’s silence (no third book) represents that Kote has re-emerged as Kvothe and is living the active narrative of book three right “now” and the reader will never know the outcome (or which decision Kote made).

This explanation makes sense to me within the narrative, even if it’s unacknowledged and disappointing. Maybe he’s too embarrassed or self-satisfied/condescending to admit that it was his intention to pull the rug out from under his readers in order to have a “clever” twist in order to appear clever. Especially since it didn’t pan out and no one seems to realize it because it’s such a stupid choice that it would never occur to them that an author would do that.

It’s also consistent with the way Rothfuss’s writing style, his real-world personality (that’s not a compliment), how he uses narrative devices, and seems totally plausible for someone like him whose entire persona embodies smugness.

It would also explain why the only thing he’s revealed from book 3 is a slightly updated prologue from the first book that ends on a somber note of Kote climbing into a bed representing the silence of a man waiting to die.

It’s also consistent with the way Rothfuss’s writing style, his real-world personality (that’s not a compliment), his focus on metafiction (stories about stories and storytelling), etc.

Anyway, just a little speculation and my own personal theory. Thought I’d put it out there so other Redditors can criticize me for it lol.

The quote in his former Twitter bio has lingered in the back of my mind as a potential smoking gun for Rothfuss’s intentions with this series. It’s always made me look at the prologue’s with more suspicion.

It’s probably not accurate, but it’s what I’ve landed on. I think this explanation is just my subconscious way of choosing an explanation that provides some semblance of closure for the series and casts an author I once admired in a more respectable (but still disappointing) light.

The third silence belonged to Kote, a man waiting to die. Whether Kote died or Kvothe lives, we’ll never hear from him again. The narrator moved on (both within the narrative frame and in real life).

🤷‍♂️

WMF straight into NOTW?Just finished my third journey through The Wise Man's Fear, this time on Audible, and I'm experiencing the familiar grief of leaving Temerant behind. Might hit up Name of the Wind again?!

So Captured in Words finally finished his in-depth summary for The Wise Man's Fear with a 6 and a half-hour video that brought up a ton of theories and interesting points I missed. Tbh I was worried he was just going to give up on this project, so it's awesome to see it now finished. I think he's making summaries for the novellas now too. Anyway, he brought up something at the end that I NEVER caught in my multiple rereads. Maybe I just have bad comprehension or something and everyone already knows this lol, but in the epilogue of WMF, Kvothe is sneaking around the Waystone inn and it mentions that he "took a single, perfect step". This connects back with I believe Vashet or Shehyn, and how their Ketan was so perfect and fluid. Taking a single, perfect step represents total balance, awareness, and control of one's center of gravity and mind—embodying the Adem ideal of being like a calm stone or a bird rather than a chaotic storm.

So Kvothe/Kote in The Waystone Inn is able to perform the Ketan still, and clearly has complete mastery over it just like his Adem teachers. So why did he let those soldiers that Bast hired defeat him?? Well, as Captured in Words pointed out, it's pretty obvious in that scene that he purposefully gives up and lets them beat him. He even says he "almost forgot who he was there for a moment". And I agree with the video, that he likely did this because he realized Bast put them up to it. Kvothe is playing a beautiful game. Turns out, he is still very capable of himself and is biding his time.... but for what? Does he not trust Bast for some reason? I think there is some piece of him locked away in the thrice-locked chest that he cannot reach, maybe it's Alar or naming abilities, or an actual piece of his true name. Possibly he's only at half-power or something, but he can clearly still perform the Ketan. Why is Kvothe hiding his abilities? Is he waiting for the Chandrian to arrive at the Waystone so that he can sacrifice himself to stop them? Is the Chronicler who he says he is? Idk, the video just brought up a lot of stuff I completely forgot about and now I'm dying to know more again. Hoping CiW makes more theory videos.
What do you guys think about all this?

Through the years I’ve read many theories concerning Bredon,  the Chandrian, Denna’s patron and the most evident links between them. Bredon has a special place in my heart, and it always surprises me when people theorize about him while ignoring basic facts and canon info about his character. In this post I will try to summarize all we know about him and, of course, take a look at all the speculation surrounding him.

1.      The facts

Bredon appears as a character for the first time in The Wise Man’s Fear. An old, polite nobleman, he teaches Kvothe how to play Tak, gives him some courtly advice (along with some rings, useful stuff in Vintish high society) and acts as a supporting, caring friend during Kvothe’s stay at the Maer’s court. Besides that, he’s quite the mysterious character. We know he’s some some sort of noble, or at least rich enough to be around the Maer, but we never see them together or get any hints of their relationship.  He holds lands in Vintas, that’s for sure

Even Bredon made an appearance. He was said to conduct pagan rituals in the secluded woods outside his northern estates

“You may call me Bredon,” he said, looking me in the eye

Names are important. Names hold power in Temerant. Bredon is most surely not his real name, but it can give us some clues about his real identity. After all, we have seen Bredon mentioned before

‘’Bredon,” Wil said, his voice thick with disdain, “is closer to bread than beer’’

So Bredon is an actual place in Temerant. A small country or a city he probably rules or is part of is domains. Or maybe not.

Bredon’s appearance gets described in more detail:

Bredon was older. Not elderly by any means, but what I consider grandfather old. His colors weren’t colors at all, merely ash grey and a dark charcoal*. His* hair and beard were pure white*, and all cut to the same length, making a frame for his face. As he sat there, peering at me with his lively brown eyes,* he reminded me of an owl

His colors: Black, grey, white. Owlish appearance. He also uses a walking stick

the sunlight caught on the polished silver handle wrought in the shape of a snarling wolf's head

What does Bredon tell Kvothe about himself? Not much

I was quite fond of it when I was young. I was even something of a power, as these things go. But at present, I have no machinations to advance. That takes the spice from such maneuverings.” He looked at me again, meeting my eyes directly. “I have simpler tastes now. I travel. I enjoy wines and conversation with interesting people. I’ve even been learning how to dance''
He smiled again, warmly, and rapped a knuckle on the board. “More than anything, however, I enjoy playing tak. However, I know few people with time or wit enough to play the game properly.”

He seems to be living the life of an old, tired nobleman, away from grand machinations. He hints at being more powerful in the past.

But Bredon can be more than just smiles and merry conversation. Especially when playing tak

‘’ Again,” Bredon said, a note of command in his voice I’d never heard before.
I tried to rally, but the next game was worse. I felt like a puppy fighting a wolf. No***. I was a mouse at the mercy of an owl****. There was not even the pretence of a fight. All I could do was run.*
But I couldn’t run fast enough. This game was over sooner than the last.
“Again,” he demanded.
And we played again. This time, I was not even a living thing. Bredon was calm and dispassionate as a butcher with a boning knife*. The game lasted about the length of time it takes to gut and bone a chicken*

Here we get hints of a darker side. But still, no answer to his real identity. At least in TWMF itself

2.      The little known facts

Besides the two books from the Kingkiller Trilogy and the Auri and Bast novellas there’s quite a few other pieces of media that give us information about Temerant and its characters, all of them written or approved by Pat Rothfuss himself. One of them is The Tak Companion Book, a goldmine for Temerant lore (specially Bredon, if you look closely)

Lots of famous and historical characters get mentioned in the Tak Book. But there's one that may sound familiar

the infamous Breon Mercer*, who traveled the world living by his wits and his winnings from Tak. Reportedly, Mercer was capable of playing the subtlest of courtly games, but when money was on the line, he was known to eschew the niceties of play, and destroy his opponents with astonishing tactical brutality*

It is said that Jezzered played with an emerald capstone carved in the shape of flower, until he lost it to Breon Mercer, to whom he later referredas “a beast in the skin of a man’

If you know anything of Tak, you know the stories of Breon Mercer, a charming rogue who traveled the world in high style, financed mainly by his winnings at Tak. […] Toward the end of his life, Breon Mercer reputedly lamented that the thrill had gone out of the game, as people would line up just for the privilege of losing to him.

Breon? Bredon? Hello? Not so subtle, is it?

Moreover, on page 27 of the Tak Book there’s an illustration depicting different Tak capstones. One of the them is the same Wolf head from  Bredon’s walking stick

The Tak companion book is supposed to be written, in-universe, by a certain Re'lar Daramin Centes. Pretty much everything in the text seems to indicate that he lived close to, if not during Kvothe's frame story. He refers to Breon Mercer as a 'legendary figure', rooted in old stories. Breon/Bredon, therefore, is much older than he seems. Unnaturally old. Old beyond human capabilities

3. What Bredon really is

‘’Bredon,” Wil said, his voice thick with disdain, “is closer to bread than beer’’

Bredon, be it the man or the beer, is not normal by any means. It's more than it should be.

Sometimes a person is actually more than one person, technically speaking*. [...] Bredon nodded. “*It happens more often than folk realize

Here Bredon may be hinting to another kind of identity. But more of that later

“Please,” he said, pushing the bag across the table. “I must insist. These are yours without obligation, let, or lien. A freely given gift''
I upended the bag and three rings chimed into my palm. Gold, silver, and iron. Each of them had my name etched into the metal: Kvothe

Bredon gives Kvothe courtly rings. A freely given gift. Sounds familiar? From The Narrow Road between Desires:

I do this, and I will never owe you any other thing,” Bast said, his empty eyes glittering like the stars scattered across the perfect blackness of the sky above. “Any debt or obligation will be squared. Any gifting that you’ve made to me is all unbound and now instead becomes a freely given gift, offered without obligation, let, or lien

Games and bargains have rules, after all. Another piece of wisdom from Bast:

Some of the faen folk are like that,” Bast conceded. “The way you hear in stories. Strength of arms, or charms, or tricks that put an Arcanist’s to shame. But some are powerful in other ways. Like the mayor, or a moneylender.” His expression went sour. “A lot of those types…they’re not good to be around. They like to trick people. Play games with them*.”*
Some of the excitement bled out of Kostrel at this. “Sounds like demons.”
Bast started to shake his head, hesitated, then made a vague gesture instead. “Some are very much like demons,” he admitted. “Or so close as makes no difference

And Bredon himself says:

His curious brown eyes smiled at me again. “Oh yes, I think I’m going to have quite a bit of fun playing with you

Bredon sometimes also speaks in rhymes, like Felurian!

That these things are not given lightly.
It’s not a part of games the gentry play,
and not the sort of ring you should display.” He gave me a look.
“If I were you, I’d tuck it safe away.”

Remember those stories Kvothe read about Bredon?

Even Bredon made an appearance. He was said to conduct pagan rituals in the secluded woods outside his northern estates

Those woods would be the southernmost part of the Eld, or part of it. A little detail from the Name of the Wind:

“What are they afraid of at night in Vintas then?”
“The fae,” my mother said.
My father spoke at the same time. “Draugar.”
”You’re both right, depending on which part of the country you’re in

It makes sense for people bordering the Eld, in the North of Vintas, to fear the Fae, since it seems to be a typical place for Faen encounters. Draugar (associated with barrows) may be more of a southern/western Vintas thing.

Back to Bredon: Apparently immortal (or at least unnaturally old), speaks like a Faen, owlish/beastly/animal traits like other Faen (a goat for Bast, butterflies for Felurian), has been seen in the woods where Faen appear, and eager to play with mortals (be it Tak or grander, more dangerous games). Bredon is one the Fae!

But he touches the iron rings!

Bast and Felurian also touch or manipulate iron without dying or getting injured. It's not nice for them, but not impossible.

4. Bredon's other identities

Sometimes a person is actually more than one person, technically speaking*. [...] Bredon nodded. “*It happens more often than folk realize

Bredon, an old Faen creature, has probably had many names and identities during his long life. He was Breon Mercer. He probably holds different court titles. There's been plenty of speculation about him being other characters, most notably Cinder, Master Ash or even Aculeus Lackless.

-Bredon as Aculeus Lackless

Aculeus gets mentioned only once in the books, as part of the Lackless family, and being quite high in the royal line of succession. He's presumed to be Meluan's father, therefore Kvothe's grandfather (Kvothe's mother being Meluan's sister Netalia has been pretty much confirmed).

1. Both Kvothe and Bredon are described as owlish, which would support this.

2. Kvothe is also described as 'fae around the edges', which makes sense with this theory, having Bredon/Aculeus' blood.

3. The Lackless lands are in the North, same as Bredon's.

What makes this theory complicated is the total absence of mentions of Aculeus by any other character during Kvothe's stay in the court, specially considering the Maer is courting his daughter and Kvothe is helping him. It could be a deliberate omission from Kvothe, but it still would be weird.

-Bredon as Master Ash

1. Master Ash is, or at least looks, like a rich nobleman. Bredon does as well

2. He has white hair. So does Bredon

   1. He has a walking stick, which he has employed to hit Denna. The only character that is seen using a walking stick is Bredon

3. Ash is gray or white, and are usually found along charcoal. Bredon's colors are grey and charcoal black

4. Master Ash is a surprisingly good dancer, according to Denna (note the SURPRISINGLY, he's an old man!). Bredon says he has been learning to dance

5. Master Ash seems to be secretive, and sometimes brutal (like a beast!). Bredon doesn't reveal much of himself, but he revealed to Kvothe how brutal he can be when necessary (when playing Tak at least), and has been described as a beast in the skin of a man (when he was Breon Mercer)

6. Kvothe tried to guess Master Ash's name, and since he has a knack for naming, we can guess he got pretty close:

Frederick the Flippant. Frank. Feran. Forue. Fordale

He almost spelled Ferula, indeed. But we don't know Bredon's real name, which could be similar. Kvothe almost spelled 'Fae', which Bredon is, btw.

1. Bredon is in Severen at the same times as Denna's patron.
   

LAST BUT NOT LEAST. Remember the other Temerant media I mentioned before? There's quite a few Kingkiller card decks where different characters are depicted. Please take a look at this post . Notice the bottom left card? With PATRON written in big letters? Depicting and old man, with white hair and beard, dressed with gray and black colors? That's our Bredon. He's holding a lute with a broken string, btw, whatever that means. Waybe he was present in the Eolian when Kvothe played Sir Savien? He met Denna there, after all.

-Bredon as Cinder

Cinder is the other most notable candidate for being Master Ash. Almost all the signs and clues fit him as well, true. Does that mean he's Bredon? Well, I don't see it.

First of all, a character turning out to be a totally different one feels like the cheapest trick Rothfuss pull out. That's not his style. It sounds like a Scooby Doo episode when they remove the rubber mask from a monster. Bredon is too much of a character himself to have a totally different identity and personality that contradicts most of what we have seen of him (as one of the Chandrian, nonetheless!)

We know there's plenty of creatures that like to disguise themselves in Temerant. Faen folk do it all the time. There's also skin dancers. The Cthaeh tells Kvothe how even the Chandrian manage to hide their signs when necessary. But we have seen Cinder doing this already! Kvothe saw him in the Eld, in the bandit camp. He didn't recognise him right away, but he knew something was off. As bast says in The Narrow Road:

For the most part, faen folk look nearly like we do. But almost all of them have something to them that is slightly slant. Their smile. Their smell. The color of their eyes or skin. They might be just a bit too short, or thin. Perhaps a subtle shine when moonlight hits their hair. Another could be oddly strong or fair

Bast hides his goat legs almost perfectly (almost, unless you look at him under the right shadow), but still retains an overworldy beauty and movements. Bredon seems to be really good at disguising himself, but from time to time people notice his owlishness/ beastly part. Those are his signs.

Cinder, on the other hand, seems to retain his mercurial movements, his weird way of walking. Even if he managed to hide it completely, why would Denna say her patron is a surprisingly good dancer? Isn't he a slender, young-ish man? It is much more surprising for an old, white haired man to be a good dancer, isn't it?

5. What's their plan, what's their plan?

So now we go into the tinfoil zone. We can be sure Bredon is not what he seems. He is a Fae creature who delights in scheming and long term planning. He has vast resources, he owns lands. He likes to use men like tak pieces for his own purposes. When first meeting Kvothe, he speaks cautiously:

I was quite fond of it when I was young. I was even something of a power, as these things go. But at present, I have no machinations to advance. That takes the spice from such maneuverings.” He looked at me again, meeting my eyes directly.“I have simpler tastes now.

And a few moments later, seeing Kvothe could be useful, he drops the mask:

I play a longer, more subtle game.” He began to work the drawstring loose on the black velvet bag. “You are a man of some wit. I know this as the Maer does not waste his time with fools. I know you either stand in the Maer’s good grace, or you have a chance to gain that grace. So here is my plan.” He smiled his warm smile again. “Would you like to hear my plan?” [...]
My plan is to insinuate myself into your favor now. I will make myself useful and entertaining. I will provide conversation and a way to pass the time.” He spilled a set of round stones out onto the marble tabletop. “Then, when your star grows ascendant in the Maer’s sky, I may find myself in possession of an unexpectedly useful friend

Oh, so you still love your courtly games, don't you?

We also know Kovthe will return to Vintas at some point , that he will visit Renere (Vintas' capital city), that he will kill a king. Something will happen with Princess Ariel. We also know that the First King of Vintas, Feyda Calanthis, will somehow appear as a draugar/zombie with some unknown purpose.

At the end of the second book, Vintas' political scene is in turmoil. High ranking nobles are dying or getting murdered. And we know that in the frame story, during Kote's times, there's a war of some sorts that's devastating the country. Not only that, but something went horribly wrong due to Kvothe's actions, awakening old powers, opening stone doors that should remain closed, or something like that.

So why did Bredon choose to be Denna's patron anyway ? He listened to her singing in the Eolian.Why would he be in the Eolian, the centre of arts and song in all four corners, if not looking for someone like her? As a Fae , he recognised the magic and power in her voice (Denna's subtle magic has been hinted many times). He's definetly using her for something great and dangerous involving two of the most powerful magics in Temerant: Names and Song. Be it for his own benefit or at someone's else orders. Something big is about to happen in Temerant, and of course Bredon will have some role in it

In conclusion: BEWARE BREDON!!!

Rereading the chronicle and when Kvothe first meets Skarpi there is no revealing of Kvothe’s name, yet less than a day later when Skarpi is arrested by the Tehlin priests he tells Kvothe to run, using his name. Have I missed something?

Can you tell who is who? :D

WHEN the 3rd book comes out, do you think there will be a possibility we will hear the full version of Arliden’s song about Lanre?
Is there a way Kvothe could could hear the rest of it? Either from the Chandrian or Abenthy?

So, a month ago this was posted https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/1wcgdk3/un_poco_de_opium/ and today (marking a month since the first anouncement) channel B posted a poll at X to do a stream the weekend before (I'm guessing no need to make it the after) the suposed "news" come out. This means something will be out the 11th of November. Mind you they haven't specified if it is something of their channel or from Rothfuss but being a kkc centered podcast and they usually don't post anything on socials it could be big.

Again this could be nothing and this is a HUGE COPIUM but does anyone remotely on the american side heard anything about it? This could tie with the translator's forum from last year.

I want to believe for once

Edit 13/10/26: So the channel B finally cleared the things, it's news about their own channel so on their end nothing of Pat's (so forget the 11th thing) BUT the other channel still claims that we should get some kind of news in short time (maybe a month maybe two).

After Kvothe tells the story of the boy with the golden screw, he and Marten discuss the origin of that story. Through that discussion, Kvothe comes to the realization that Elodin is giving Kvothe and the other students unsolvable or ridiculous problems to solve, training their sleeping minds. So given that parallel, was Arliden intentionally training child Kvothe's sleeping mind or was it as Kvothe described and Marten described as "shabby" treatment of a child to give him an unsolvable riddle.

In a more cruel parallel universe where Patrick announced that he’d never continue Kvothe’s story and would instead write novellas about some of the characters from the first two books, whose story would you want to read the most?

One thing that has me a bit confused is Auris name, as given to her by Kvothe.

Kvothe is generally regarded as a good namer, and has a natural ability to find things and persons true names and nature.

Yet he names her Auri, wich is strange to me seeing as how connected to the moon she is. Being called Moon fay and all. Auri is very moon coded. Yet the name Auri brings thought to gold or golden. Aurum being "gold" in Latin, could give Auri a translation as "golden". The moon is seldom compared to gold, more commonly silver, the sun being the golden one.

So as I see it, either we are being deceived and Auri really should be a sun character, or Kvothe was really wrong in giving her the name.

Master Elodin also gives us a hint in how dangerous it is to change ones name. Imagine then how dangerous it could be if someone ells changes your name. Elodin agreed to teach Kvothe after he met him and Auri on top of things. And we are led to believe it is because he is impressed with Kvothes natural ability to name things right. What if that is wrong and he agrees because he sees Kvothe being really wrong in naming her Golden, and recognizing that a person with strong naming ability but little insight is a dangerous thing. Maybe Kvothe altered something in Auri by naming her "wrong" and Elodin recognize the danger he could be if he keeps naming stuff in such a manner.

Just some thoughts, might well be wrong in this but it has bugged me for a while så needed to went. Auri should really be Argi if she is the little moon fay...

Second time reading the books. During the break-up I read the following:

• Red Rising - fun action, but the twists were lazy and lost me
• The First Law - epic characters and beautifully written. TBH this was a great read. The plot didn't matter though, which I know was the point. It doesn't grab the heart strings..
• Blood Over Bright Haven - moving themes, but it falls flat half way through
• Fourth Wing - yawn
• The Lies of Locke Lamora - currently listening to this one, and it's given me many laughs. But I know it's not meant to go deeper.

What I miss most about this series is the mystery. It captures the mystery we all feel as we stare into our own unknown futures. KKC's plot unravels as you go while you stare through Kvothes eyes. It doesn't rely on some lazy plot twists, a fake death, or some reveal that exists primarily as a "gotcha."

I wonder if I would feel the same once (please, gods above, let it be true) it's complete? Maybe we can reach the end with Kvothe, old and weary, and finally understand the shape of the wind we’ve been chasing all along...

That being said, my second time through made me a bit frustrated with Denna!! But she is as difficult as any muse. I cried when she gave Kvothe the Lute, but I cannot understand the weird vibes in the water. I suppose Kvothe is equally to blame. There are so many things left unsaid between those two and that is what feels most real about their relationship. It makes me think about how many things have gone unsaid in my own past relationships...Ugh... Pat, we miss you.