It sucks that guys get gaslit about dating struggles

[u/racecar67885]

I’m 22 years old and straight up… Dudes just aren’t allowed to talk about any male dating struggle especially the struggles surrounding looks. They get made fun of or told just go workout and fix yourself. Why are guys the only people who are not allowed to complain about anything. My cousin is 18 and my uncle gave him the work on yourself and girls will give you a chance talk. He did all of that and developed actual hobbies, still gets rejected because he is short for his age (5’2.) Once no other advice worked he was finally told “oh it’s because of the stuff you repost on social media” yeah I’m sure his beliefs are such a big deal. Hell, I also get rejected a lot despite expanding my personality. I’m not saying anyone else should be blamed for shortcomings, I’m just saying we should be able to vent lol

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[u/theMcallen]

"Be yourself, everyone else is already taken" - Oscar Wilde

[u/AgentAxillary → u/theMcallen]

"If you want to know who you are, figure out who everyone else is, and then you're who's left."

[u/wesborland1234 → u/theMcallen]

“Not so fast”

• Oscar Wilde’s twin brother

[u/Notentirelysane86 → u/wesborland1234]

“I said it as slowly as possible.”

-Oscar Wilde

[u/mankytoes → u/theMcallen]

Lol he absolutely did not say that cheesy bumper sticker line.

[u/Anxious_Zone_6222 → u/mankytoes]

"You should believe everything on the internet" – Vladimir Lenin

[u/ItsTomorrowNow → u/Anxious_Zone_6222]

"Yeah exactly, why would the internet lie?" - William Shakespeare

[u/Regulardumbguy]

Well what's he posting on social media? Because I can think of a lot of things a young guy could post right now to scare a young girl off. Dismissing it as no one caring seems shortsighted

[u/Temporary_Resident45 → u/Regulardumbguy]

Uhh yeah politics is actually really important to a lot of young women. Maybe not in like the macroeconomic policy way but in the “do you think I count as people” way 

[u/ShermanCookout → u/Regulardumbguy]

Going with a 90% chance this is a rage bait post

[u/Regulardumbguy → u/ShermanCookout]

Unfortunately I have had my own little cousin look me in the eye before and tell me Andrew Tate was not in jail (the first time he was locked up). Some of the things young men tell themselves literally defy logic (i was a young man defying logic in my own way at one point too, but not to this level)

[u/yeetgodmcnechass → u/ShermanCookout]

Yeah this post seems to be attracting a few incel types, or at least incel adjacent

[u/TaylorMonkey → u/yeetgodmcnechass]

It's also attracting the exact type of gaslighting person it's talking about, so successful?

[u/pollomimano → u/Regulardumbguy]

OP himself is active in the r/itsthatbad sub so I imagine his cousin is likely into similar content. That sub is militant about their dislike of women to the point where they are completely on board with stripping their rights. Probably one of the more hateful subs I’ve seen on here.

[u/Icy-Basis-5144 → u/pollomimano]

That place was BAAD. I have a weird fascination with those types of subs

[u/pollomimano → u/Icy-Basis-5144]

lmao same

[u/Winter_Box_1162 → u/pollomimano]

Shocking…

[u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie → u/pollomimano]

Yikes I just checked it out and need to cleanse my eyeballs

[u/Iloveanime2007 → u/pollomimano]

I am telling you most men having issues with dating I swear it is always a reason behind it

[u/eekkgg_eekkgg → u/Iloveanime2007]

Nah. Most misogynists I've know are married. I know guys with prominent nazi tattoos who are married. Terrible people date all the time.

The most common traits among guys who have issues with dating are autism, social anxiety, AvPD, OCD, PTSD, childhood abuse, social isolation. Stuff like that. Not their morality and politics.

[u/BrightSpring12 → u/Iloveanime2007]

by your logic all women on r/evilwomeninc should be single.

your comment doesn't make any sense when OP himself hasn't said anything wrong.

[u/Iloveanime2007 → u/BrightSpring12]

This is just deflection and avoiding accountability. Getting defensive doesnt change the facts. Also another man's (you) opinion on OP's Reddit history isnt relevant in this context. OP wants to date women, meaning women's preferences are the only ones that actually count. Speaking as a woman yes those specific subs like those OP posts in are a massive turn off. You dont get to dictate what women are allowed to find unappealing

[u/mrmcbobinsnuggles → u/pollomimano]

There's a sub called grippysocksjail where it's nothing but memes and jokes about abusing men physically and mentally

[u/No-Yam-9178 → u/mrmcbobinsnuggles]

What's your point? That's also bad and completely irrelevant to the conversation.

[u/ForCaste → u/Regulardumbguy]

His cousin sounds like a chud lol

[u/Contagious_Cure]

I think the concept of getting hobbies and being an interesting person in order to impress girls or get a date is just dogshit advice. You should do that for yourself. If you're doing it for other people it's very likely going to be very obvious that it's entirely performative unless you're some Patrick Bateman level psychopath who just exists in a shell of a human. I mean isn't that literally being a pick me?

[u/YankeeMagpie → u/Contagious_Cure]

“Become the person you’d want to date” was one of the most formative pieces of advice I received at 19. Definitely applies to hobbies! I started working out, reading more, etc etc. Met my wife that summer.

[u/TimeMilk7408 → u/Contagious_Cure]

I thought the advice of getting hobbies was because you could either meet people doing your hobby, or just mainly be happy and confident about yourself. 

I have rarely heard people recommend hobbies to impress women. More often the opposite e.g. guys saying weight lifting and cars attracts more guy attention than girl attention.

[u/Blothorn → u/TimeMilk7408]

Originally yes, but I keep seeing posts complaining about how getting into (male-dominated) hobbies to impress women isn’t working that suggest that either the advice has been corrupted in repetition or it’s being widely misinterpreted.

[u/brohymn85 → u/Blothorn]

Agreed, I’ve always taken that advice to mean, “if you independently develop yourself into the man you want to be, you will increase your chances of meeting someone to share mutual attraction.”

Personally, that meant losing a hundred pounds, putting on some muscle, developing a career, getting into yoga, etc…

[u/Contagious_Cure → u/TimeMilk7408]

I've definitely heard the "join a hobby group" advice too for the purpose of meeting other people in your already existing hobby, but I'm referring to the "get a hobby and be interesting" advice which is what I'm talking about and since OP worded it as "developed actual hobbies" it sounds like it may be closer to what I'm talking about, but maybe OP chose weird wording.

I've heard the advice quite a bit, and it's not so much that they think the hobby itself will impress women (maybe some will), but more so something along the lines of "women like it when you're passionate about something... anything". But again... I think people should do that for themselves not for women or getting laid. Because getting a passion just to get laid sounds pathetic lol. Like c'mon guys be passionate for it's own sake!

[u/Ok-Produce-5235 → u/Contagious_Cure]

Exactly like a hobby is attractive because typically the people who have passions are usually more well rounded and socialized and thus are more attractive.

But it’s the well rounded and socialized aspect, not the hobby part, and you can be that without any hobbies

[u/TNFX98 → u/TimeMilk7408]

I chose some of the worse hobbies to meet women but they definitely make my life worth living for me even though I haven't got a partner for so long

[u/Advanced-Gur-8950 → u/TNFX98]

Yeah…. I can promise you my deep hobby of long range precision shooting and guns has scored me zero poon 😂

[u/TNFX98 → u/Advanced-Gur-8950]

Same goes for motorcycles, only ever received compliments from other men, and kids, lots of kids, which i guess sounds weird but it's really great when they wave at you all excited and you can rev it out to make them happy. Happened to me the other day, poor kid was basically trying to launch himself out the window to look at us, redlined it a few times and saw him jumping back in the car to tell his father basically jumping on the seat, made my day.

[u/Working_Cucumber_437 → u/TNFX98]

It doesn’t really matter much what the hobby is though. My partner’s hobbies are nothing I’m into but I love that he’s so passionate about what he loves.

[u/Advanced-Gur-8950 → u/Working_Cucumber_437]

Oh yes I know haha, I get that. Not being passionate or caring about anything is unattractive, regardless of your sex

[u/TNFX98 → u/Working_Cucumber_437]

Obviously, the problem is meeting someone who loves your hobbies too but said hobbies do not help in that, while there are others who are much more helpful.

Like dancing or acting for example, or other group/social activities are way more likely to help you meet new people even if you're shy or an introvert.

Meanwhile hobbies like gaming, motorcycles, skiing or like the other redditor said guns can be practiced alone or without much opportunities to meet new people unless your really going out of your way to do so. Meanwhile they're also generally male dominated

[u/clericone- → u/TimeMilk7408]

That's definitely the advice. Also learning a variety of things just makes you smarter, more well versed, interesting, and confident, which ultimately has the bi-product of making you more appealing to the opposite sex.

In 2026 you have to spell out everything to people though. 🤷‍♂️

[u/succulent_ape → u/Contagious_Cure]

I mean sometimes you end up finding out you really enjoy that hobby. I took up dancing mostly to meet and impress chicks, and I found out I actually really love it! It’s compounded too cuz girls really like that I’m so into it.

[u/Lepelotonfromager → u/Contagious_Cure]

I think it's the other way around. You need to work on yourself for yourself. Improving yourself will then make you attractive to women as a side-effect.

[u/therealnokiii]

I’m 17, so a year below your cousin. Can I be fully honest? It probably is his social media. I’m not gaslighting (not sure why people casually use this psychological word) and yes sometimes things can suck for dudes. What I want to explain in a neutral way, is that Gen Z males are chronically online and fall into circlejerk content that promotes certain beliefs about girls/women. Girls do stalk profiles and that stuff can drive them away. I think when some guys claim they’ve “worked on their personality” they really haven’t done that much. It can be hard especially if you’re young because we’re all awkward, but learning to be a more genuine person actually is really good advice even if it’s cliche or repetitive. I have no issues with approaching/being approached. My recent ex girlfriend 19f didn’t go to my school, I met her at our job. Shes moving for university so we had a mutual breakup, and I’m very proud of her, but there’s no realistic way I would have been with her if I was stuck in online circles harboring certain beliefs. This current anti-woman era needs to be challenged by the rest of males. Otherwise we’re just complacent.

[u/spongebobisha → u/therealnokiii]

If I’d give any advice to any young man out there, it’d be to absolutely not be online. Develop hobbies, learn skills, do things in the real world. Remain a mystery that people need to unravel by meeting you and interacting with you, rather than a book that people could read and review without you.

[u/YouHaveToGoHome → u/spongebobisha]

It's really sad. When I was growing up the web used to be filled with wonderful sites where I spent hours each week truly diving into my academic passions far, far beyond what my public school at the time could offer (and not like janky Khan Academy, I mean niche sites maintained by pure enthusiasts). It made an immense difference in my academic career and probably meaningfully impacted which college I got into and where I've gotten in life today. That version is so far gone now...

[u/Rynewulf → u/YouHaveToGoHome]

Wikipedia might not be 100% but it's better than a lot of things out there right now

[u/spongebobisha → u/YouHaveToGoHome]

Yup. Current internet exists to dumb people down rather than uplift them.

[u/BigDracula_ → u/spongebobisha]

Yeah you got to spend as little time as possible engaging with social media for sure, and hobbies that aren't anime and video games. You have to do real world stuff. Not that that guarantees an easier dating life, more that only being into nerd stuff and the internet is going to hurt you.

As an aside, it's weird how often you see the "nobody can tell you're posting weird shit by looking at you" take, because people who are good at reading people can smell weird vibes from almost any element of presentation. It's just that not being hyper-aware of social shit is a big part of being bad at dating, so it seems impossible to them.

But yes you should be able to vent, just be aware that if how you vent makes people think you're a problem they're going to tell you that.

[u/spongebobisha → u/BigDracula_]

Yeah, and you develop that intuition and ability to read people by meeting more people irl. That’s something else that social media has negatively impacted.

[u/havetofindaname → u/therealnokiii]

I agree. Some people just follow and repost the weirdest (not in a good way) stuff out there. Its best to just avoid social media altogether.

[u/No-Wish-7258 → u/therealnokiii]

As someone who is much older, when I even think about dating a guy, the first thing I vet is his social media.
If he is following too many pretty girls (who aren’t his friends, but he’s obviously following just because he finds them attractive) that’s an automatic no for me when it comes to dating. I see that that man’s attention is too spread out and there is no room for me.
I also pay attention to memes guys repost because people often tell on themselves through jokes. If there is something in the joke that I find very disturbing, there is a high chance that the person actually thinks like that.
Now if he just follows normal things and people he knows, that’s cool.

[u/Conscious_Waltz_5314 → u/No-Wish-7258]

What if he doesn't really have social media?

[u/No-Wish-7258 → u/Conscious_Waltz_5314]

If he doesn’t have it then that’s fine.

[u/AlpsSuspicious8737 → u/therealnokiii]

Good point! I was just thinking how, where I lived, around 2000 (so early days of a widely available Internet), there was no raging gender war going on. Was I miserable at times, at about your age, because I didn’t date? Yeah, but that was naturally my own problem and that was it, and it was pretty clear that it was mostly rooted in my own insecurities (which, spoiler, it always is).

[u/racecar67885 → u/therealnokiii]

Actually I do think you’re right and I appreciate your insight. Yes I agree our generation is a little odd. And for me being 22 right now in this current world feels weird in general I guess. Maybe 16-24 is a weird spot in general.

[u/therealnokiii → u/racecar67885]

Yeah it’s all a weird time. I looked through your account (sorry) and have seen some comments you made. Seems like you and your cousin might be on the same scale when it comes to scaring girls away. You’ve made comments about not being the preferred type for girls in your area because of your race, and you participate in some.. Subs. I think it would be healthy to disengage from all that. I am brown (Indian) With all the hate we’re facing right now and the microaggressions I have received living here in Texas, I can relate to your struggles. But how did you equate it to the fault of women? Most racism that’s presented in an extremist format is usually from other men. I may not be at the “top of the hierarchy” like the white guys, but my brown skin is not a disability and it has never hindered me. Yours is not a disability either. I get attention from everyone. Believing your race is an issue can make it an issue. I am rooting for you either way :)

[u/plaeydso → u/therealnokiii]

I responded to you separately but, you do well in a majority white area like Texas because you are handsome. Especially in the height of current racism towards South Asians, your face protects you from that. Not saying the other guy is right for whatever he partakes in. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted because Reddit for whatever reason refuses to acknowledge looks do matter for everybody and it’s not a bad thing, it’s completely natural.

[u/lighttenup → u/plaeydso]

You made me look for myself.

…Gahdayum.

[u/Overall-Table4572 → u/lighttenup]

Dude is real life Aladdin. Elegant looking.

[u/lighttenup → u/Overall-Table4572]

His picture has almost 200 likes for a reason 🤣

[u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie → u/therealnokiii]

Yep my friend was very attracted to this guy, then we stalked his social media and found out he followed Trump, Andrew Tate, etc. Her interest in him immediately vanished

[u/lighttenup → u/therealnokiii]

You’re definitely spitting facts but you are not the average guy, my dude. You look like a model. Of course you get approached. When you wanna get through to certain men, try to better understand the viewpoint of below average looking men (even if some of them are saying stupid things.) Doing great though!

[u/Overall-Table4572 → u/therealnokiii]

Hey little brother. So first off I totally agree with you. Second off most males do not look like you

[u/lelpd]

If your cousin is reposting questionable shit on social media, to the point his own family have pointed it out to him. Then yeah, maybe that’s a problem?

If he’s posting that stuff boldly online, it’s clearly part of his personality. The only guys I know who post that sort of thing on social media are losers irl. The guys I know who have some questionable views, but are overall decent people, don’t share those things online because they have the social awareness and empathy to understand how poorly it can be perceived, they don’t let those views control their life and know there’s a time and a place for discussing controversial opinions.

So yeah. Your cousin has some work to do on himself.

[u/YetAnotherJake]

Show us what he's posting on social media

[u/superginseng]

Im so fucking over the incorrect use of the therapyspeak like “gaslighting/gaslit.”

The word has evolved so much from original meaning that apparently in OPs mind, it means mild disagreement or not allowing to do whatever he wants.

[u/Moopies → u/superginseng]

It's so goddamn annoying. Just read the definition. It's not hard.

[u/Alive-Ad-2371]

Yes, beliefs are a big deal

[u/Umaritimus]

Uhhhh yeah his beliefs probably are a big deal??? What are we even doing

[u/goondalf_the_grey]

Okay but what is he posting on social media? Feels like you're burying the lede here

[u/ia332 → u/goondalf_the_grey]

You know, things. 

[u/sleepycobra → u/ia332]

Retweeting Donald Trump probably.

[u/arttagonist → u/goondalf_the_grey]

Yeah it is probably his looks, and his personality, and his desperate vibe, and his ever growing insecurity and resentment that manifests in a telling social media presence - it’s all  interconnected. 

Together makes a charm of a guy I’m not sure why women aren’t swarming him. 

[u/thisoneistobenaked]

It’s all part of it, looks, beliefs, presentation etc what is the “stuff” he’s posting on social media that you weren’t being specific about

[u/Last-Difficulty4265 → u/thisoneistobenaked]

Yeah, that caught my attention too. Conveniently vague.

[u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie → u/Last-Difficulty4265]

It's 100% some Andrew Tate bs

[u/ninjette847 → u/thisoneistobenaked]

Yeah, what a guy posts which reflects his interests, attitude, beliefs, etc is a million times more important than looks to me.

[u/Yoozif]

You can absolutely vent. You’re the only one in charge of the company you keep around you.

[u/AlpsSuspicious8737 → u/Yoozif]

Yeah but what I see is lots of people, and that includes OP here, seem to be looking for scapegoats (whether they’re people or things or concepts), rather than actually trying to understand how they’re feeling, and how to deal with their feelings.

Reddit in particular is fond of taking a few contextless sentences and build whole practical advices around them, when sometimes people need understanding above all, so that doesn’t help either.

[u/Pale_Presence4662 → u/AlpsSuspicious8737]

Exactly right. Also, these stories are told from one person's perspective! A complete stranger you dont know. Peopes own side of a story are ludicrously unreliable and everyone knows that.

But its taken as gospel online and they immediately validate that person. Meanwhile the replies dont know anything about anything with this person. The truth could be and usually is vastly different than how they are presenting it, and all the replies are doing is doubling down on OPs made up story in their head.

Social media is such, such a bad idea.

[u/MutedBeach8248]

I'm short and really I have no problem talking to people, it really is the views. If your 'views' are hating women then why should women talk to you?

[u/Front_Plankton_6808 → u/MutedBeach8248]

He’s, right. Also, any guy that doesn’t show his outward distaste for guys like Andrew Tate if they are ever brought up is an immediate note for me as a partner, as a friend, and just as a general human I wanna associate with. Another red flag, not thinking men and women can have completely platonic, healthy friendships.

[u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie → u/MutedBeach8248]

Yep my friend is 5 feet tall and he does very well with women because he's funny and smart

The height thing is just a scapegoat to stop these dudes from reflecting on their personalities

[u/RakeChapman13 → u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie]

I think height inflation has warped a lot of guys minds. A lot of guys who say they are 6’1 are like not even 5’11, adding 3 inches to their height and so there’s these women online who say they need a guy to be six foot but shes not actually even talking about a legit six ft. Hardly any woman actually requires that. Guys see examples of these women and fixate on and get bitter, blow things out of proportion.

Height matters but it def gets exaggerated. Of course most women would prefer a guy be taller but there’s alot of women who would totally date a guy who is slighty shorter if she finds him attractive enough, including women who say they wouldn’t, for those women there’s shorterguys they would def go for because height is just one of many things.

[u/bonusminutes → u/MutedBeach8248]

Its kind of wild that the dude is just saying how dating is difficult, doesnt say anything negative about women, and this whole thread is just telling him he hates women. Youre kind of proving his point.

[u/MutedBeach8248 → u/bonusminutes]

"oh it’s because of the stuff you repost on social media" just because he knows enough to not say the obvious thing out loud means two things, one he actually knows it's this element of his personality that's driving people away, two he's not self aware enough to not hate women for it and then tries to pin it on height which objectively matters less

[u/nerdinstincts]

Just remember - short dudes get women every day.

Red pilled losers who blame women for their shitty perspectives do not.

[u/Just-Some-Guy-62 → u/nerdinstincts]

Yeah as much as I wanna agree with OP I really can't until I know what his cousin reposted to begin with.

We can't expect women to want to date men who voted anti-women rights party.

[u/Key-Month6651 → u/Just-Some-Guy-62]

Meanwhile many men live in environment where the struggling men are left wingers meanwhile all the right winges have girlfriends. Smfh 🤦‍♂️

[u/DateNightThrowRA → u/nerdinstincts]

Gonna say, right? If he’s posting gross shit on social media, enough to get notice from family, it very well may repel women.

[u/Ott82 → u/DateNightThrowRA]

This! In the current climate all women I know would not date a guy that posted anything that looked right wing. Without more context to what was posted it’s hard to say but absolutely what you post says a lot about you, whether you mean it to, or realize it.

And it also depends on age, in your teens and early 20s you tend to be more shallow and height may be an issue for some, but it really isn’t for the majority. I have maybe two friends that are with tall guys, the rest don’t care. Most are with guys that others would say are a league below them, but they don’t see it that way and the guys are attractive to them and good caring people who you like to be around.

If you find you’re getting rejected for height regularly then change up where you are looking to meet women, and hey, you dodged a bullet. Who wants to be with someone that shallow unless it’s a one night stand. Not the person you can spend your life with or rely on for support.

[u/FusRoDawg → u/nerdinstincts]

Where does this stupid collection of myths even come from? People treat "manosphere" and "incels on 4chan" to be interchangeable now, but that's just dumb and wrong?

For generations, women in particular, have always known that the frat bro/football star type of guy is both 1. Not one to have problems getting laid and 2. Likely to be the biggest predator around and generally mysogynist.

Before the current moral panic about incels, the predominant sentiment used to persuade young men away from "pick up artist" types is to tell them that one night stands are "cheap" and nothing to aim for.

When did this turn into a weird notion that getting laid (or not) is representative of good character (or some kind of character flaw) even come from?

It's a dumb internet circlejerk that relies on the the just world fallacy.

The more I encounter this sentiment in the wild the more it feels like a bunch of dudes with middling romantic/sex lives, who feel like their middling sex lives put them lower on the totempole, that are just happy to find someone else even lower status than them to punch down on.

All this is without even getting into how intrinsically patriarchal it is to treat not getting laid as a bad thing in men and good thing for women.

[u/HallowedGround666 → u/FusRoDawg]

The football player womanizer and the manosphere/incel guy are similar in that they are men of poor character with no integrity. They both place their value as men on how many women they're having sex with and their desirability as partners. It's two sides of the same coin. I wouldn't say it's a moral panic because it's actually happening. The satanic panic was a moral panic, and that was just high schoolers listening to Metallica and fingering each other in the woods. Manosphere content has real, measurable consequences and women are getting hurt.

[u/anarchoblake → u/HallowedGround666]

Nothing more satanic than finger blasting your boys to Metallica in the woods

[u/Key-Month6651 → u/FusRoDawg]

Yep. The moral panic and just world fallacy narrative with dating is actually unironically a bunch of cowards punching down to make themselves feel better.

Pushing the same ol garbage in a new package that lets them appear good and like they are being productive, while being a bunch of weaklings that aren't actually doing anything to make society better or address the issues they claim to care about.

[u/newuser336 → u/FusRoDawg]

>”when did this turn into a weird notion that getting laid (or not) is representative of good character (or some kind of character flaw) even come from?”

Not sure how you ended up with the disposition that this is anything new. Virginity has carried stigma for a long time. I mean, I’m a 90’s baby but the concept is present in movies & shows going back to like, the 70’s at least.

There has always been this social pressure on both men and women (really, boys and girls) to lose their virginity by/before college, otherwise you’re a “loser”.

One motive being, you should be/want to be “experienced” before entering an age known for promiscuity… you don’t want to be “bad” at sex during the time when you’re expecting to be having more than ever before or after.

The other is that, if you’ve been on this earth for more than X amount of time and never managed to get laid, there must be something wrong with you. You’re unattractive or just generally undesirable.

More recently though, the idea is getting pushed that it’s not your fault you can’t get laid… it’s their fault for not wanting you.

Instead of removing the stigma entirely, we’ve decided that there is still something wrong with being a virgin, but the blame for it has been shifted from the self to the opposite sex. At least, that’s what the influencers are selling now.

[u/FusRoDawg → u/newuser336]

The opposite hasn't always been true. Getting laid "the right amount" was the socially accepted norm. A young man getting laid a lot was considered good by his peers, but not by the rest of society.

And on top of that calling someone a virgin as an insult was seen as meathead/highschool bully behavior. However no such connotation exists if you call someone an incel. It's a socially acceptable way to punch down.

The other is that, if you’ve been on this earth for more than X amount of time and never managed to get laid, there must be something wrong with you. You’re unattractive or just generally undesirable.

Being unattractive and being undesirable are not the same, in that they do not reflect the same thing about one's character. You're only struggling to see the problem with this because it's directed at a group that is seen as "ok to bash". Ugly people, fat people, disabled people, even trans men, have trouble getting laid.

To assume there must be something wrong with them because they couldn't get laid is to assume bad things only happen to bad people. It's that simple. It's the just world fallacy.

That incel could be a bad person, but that must be ascertained seperately, not solely from the fact that he is an incel. (The term was coined by a woman btw).

[u/justanenglishlad → u/nerdinstincts]

Funnily enough I know more short dudes with women currently than tall. Lol

[u/gh0stwrit3r32767]

what are these beliefs tho? maybe he's into the alphamale manoverse bs.

[u/Tanksgivingmiracle]

It is really tough to date at 22. But when you are approaching your 30s and into your 30s it gets way easier. I went from striking out 80% of the time to striking out 10% of the time to the point I had to say no to women way more than they were saying it to me. Now I been happily married with kids for a long time and it doesn't matter. But for you, just hang in there. Even if it sucks now, you will get more and more interest from women as you get more mature and charming.

[u/iJ_A_R]

I have a friend that's 5'1, he's engaged. You know why? Because he went to meet a real person not tried to swoon a girl over social media or some dating app. You need to reconnect with real life, that's the only advice you need.

[u/JeromeBarkly → u/iJ_A_R]

This. I’m 6’5 and my colleague is 5’7. He runs circles around me when it comes to picking up women. IRL is a lot less vapid than social media makes people out to be. You gotta go out into the world OP. No one says you can’t vent about your struggles with dating, men do it on this website all day everyday. But women don’t owe you a date because you “expanded your personality.” You’re 22, you have a lot of life to live and getting rejected is a large part of it. Just go into dating without expectations, have fun and you will eventually meet your person.

[u/iJ_A_R → u/JeromeBarkly]

Yep some people just haven't been out in so long and it's noticable

[u/One-Position4239 → u/iJ_A_R]

Not saying you cannot at 5'1". I'm 5'5" and know the pain. I do get girls but it's not easy and girls outright just asked me "why are you asking me out you're smaller than me?" while being the same height for example. At 5'1" you are living a much much much harder dating life than even me at 5'5". It's astronomically harder and you need to show this guy some sympathy.

[u/ElectronicPangolin96 → u/One-Position4239]

It is absolutely harder, and the dating pool is much smaller. But it's not impossible, and believing that no woman will never date you is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[u/Boring_Adeptness_334]

Looks are probably 80% of dating until you’re 30. Women don’t really care about money or height or being jacked as much as you think. A guy with an 8/10 face but 4/10 height, money, muscles will outperform a guy like myself who’s 9/10 height, 9/10 money, 8/10 muscles, with a 4/10 face.

[u/wanteur → u/Boring_Adeptness_334]

Yeah the face is always most important

[u/MaxDyflin]

What "views"? If that person is mysognistic that could be a red flag for anyone.

Height can be something of a factor for some women. That's true. There still are a lot of women who like short kings out there.

The advice I'd give are work on the things you can work on. That will improve your success. Smell good, dress well, don't be a mysognistic bigot. Ya know. The basics.

But you could be the best looking man in the world. If you get told "no" once and never try again... It doesn't really matter.

We generally have to do the first step. And first steps are a numbers game. Getting to no fast because of your height? Sucks but the silver lining is that you tried. Took a risk, put yourself out there, and you got to "no".

It's frustrating but time efficient: you will build up a tolerance to rejection, and you can move on to someone more interested in you quickly. It's almost like they did you a favour in a way.

[u/LakeCityCrowPills]

Men unfortunately get the “work on yourself” talk because we have been socially conditioned not to do certain things, and in our society there are two socially acceptable outlets for negative emotion for men: anger and physicality.

Basically, “boys will be boys” was the way that men were raised. That we do dumb stuff, get hurt, but nobody should have to care because we will be perfectly fine. After all a “real man” would get back up if he scraped his elbow. A “real man” would figure out how to deal with his situation because a “real man” is able to rely on only himself. He’d “pull himself up by his bootstraps” so to speak.

Women, on the other hand, were raised to express emotions, talk to one and other about their problems and seek out help when they need it. Because of that, women often have certain social skills that men do not.

“Working on yourself” as advice is a byproduct of the way society raises men.

Truthfully, I will say this; sometimes “working on yourself” is giving yourself something to do in order to make the life you are living bearable. We are all dealt certain hands in life, and some of us just have better ones while others have hands that couldn’t win a round of poker on their own. Thing is, you cannot help what you cannot help. But what you can do is find a way to make your life more enjoyable or bearable at the least. You do that by finding things you enjoy, and learning how to connect with others.

You should be learning how to lean on others in a healthy way, and celebrating your fellow person. You should be learning how to be gentle with yourself like you are with others and if you are not gentle with others, you should be learning how to do that as well. You should be learning how to celebrate the incredible fortune that it is to be alive.

Thing is, we are not taught those things as men. We are instead taught that life is supposed to be hard, because “difficult times make strong men.” But that just ain’t true!

[u/TedsGloriousPants]

I mean, complaining is the lifeblood of Reddit, so you're in the right place.

That being said - not liking the advice you get doesn't make the advice invalid or mean you "can't complain". Dating sucks. It's worthy of complaining about. But it's not so much that you complain about it, it's how you complain about it, and whether or not you have realistic expectations.

I hate to be the one to have to tell you this, but your beliefs and attitudes are a HUGE part of attracting and maintaining a partnership with someone.

I'm someone who doesn't stay single for long - it's not because of my looks, it's not because I'm particularly tall, it's not because I follow some "formula" for "pulling girls". It's because I know what I need and want, I'm upfront about those things, I reciprocate in terms of understanding and accommodating people's needs, and I approach dating confidently and honestly as a means to compliment eachothers lifestyle, rather than just trying to get laid or check arbitrary boxes. I don't want to "pull girls", I want to build a partnership - and people can pick up on that attitude right away.

....and I'm not a redpilled shithead. Honestly, I don't think that community understands that's it's their very rhetoric that drives women away from them. But anyway.

There are lots of problems with the "modern dating scene", but it's not impossible, and there's no shortage of people complaining about it.

[u/BigTanq → u/TedsGloriousPants]

You kinda missed the whole point tho, and are perpetuating the very thing the OP was trying to describe. Sometimes it’s just nice to vent and rant without receiving advice or a solution. I’m not saying that what you stated is wrong, it’s just tone deaf to the point being made here. But that’s what usually happens in male convos, we usually don’t let each other “feel” something, instead we go straight to a advice or solution making

[u/Cautious-Kitchen8740 → u/TedsGloriousPants]

It's because of your looks. You just can't see that.

[u/astralplane_wanderer → u/TedsGloriousPants]

People who achieve success always jump to attribute that success to the qualities they believe showcase something great about them. That might be why they succeed, it might not.

Seems like most people who succeed primarily, or in part, due to unseen or unobserved advantages they have love to shout advice at other people, love to root their success (I’m never single too long) in their own work ethic or intentional behaviours, beliefs or choices. Their advice always amounts to being more like them. This is what’s built the entire airport self help book market

This is basically someone who got rich either by being born to the right family or being in a position not afforded to many and then attributing their wealth to hard work and discipline and telling everyone they meet that they should just work as hard as them.

On the other hand, every person I’ve met who’s success truly comes from the type of qualities you describe, are humble about it, don’t leave out the possibility that success and outcomes are not something you have control of, remain curious and empathetic and don’t go round telling everyone to just be more like them to find success.
They understand that what’s worked for them might not work for others.
And more so, someone who behaves and is the exact opposite of them might also find success.

[u/De_Vils_Ad_VoCaTe → u/TedsGloriousPants]

The type of advice you get and how it's presented absolutely matters. Because when you are giving an advice it implies that person is behaving in some way it's described in said advice.

Everyone understands that, it's not controversial. Let's say for example a young parent is complaining about how hard it is to rise a toddler. And the advice in comments is following: 1) Don't starve your child 2)Child is not a toy, you can't beat him to get what you want. 3) Dippers have to be changed as soon as needed and not once a week.

Is this wrong advice? No it's not. But is it given in good faith? Also no, because it implies that right now this parent is starving, beating and overall neglecting their child.

Now taking one look at male dating advice online you will soon see that it's filled with bad faith advice about how they should shower more, stop being aggressive, treat woman like humans, and so on. Giving such advice is not only rude, it's dissimisive, that's why some might think it's hard to vent.

[u/BigTanq → u/De_Vils_Ad_VoCaTe]

You articulated something so well that I’ve been trying to say!! The whole point of this post.

From the emotional perspective, very poor quality advice and discussions happen in male spaces around these topics. It’s always how someone needs to be better and they are lacking in some way. When the person might just wanna hear: “yeah that sucks bro, you’re not crazy for thinking that”

[u/TopicFrequent6607 → u/TedsGloriousPants]

This is a lot of the same response that men get when they complain though. Nobody said it was impossible. But they said that the odds are heavily slanted against them. These men were raised to believe that men were the shallow gender and that woman chose based on personality not physical appearance. This is simply not true.

NIH studies, University of Texas and so many other studies have already demonstrated that physical height matters more than literally any other variable in female attention. And they have repeated these studies multiple times.

Is it impossible? No..........but again nobody claimed that. Should society stop telling men that women aren't shallow and it's your personality that is the problem? HELL YES!!!!!

It's about the contradictions and halo effect that women get.

[u/DickertonDiscordson → u/TopicFrequent6607]

tbh the way you speak about psychology studies as if they’re factual is giving science illiterate. (as a neuroscientist)

[u/Wulfman-47 → u/TedsGloriousPants]

So if I just change my attitude the dating apps will magicly start working, even though there designed not to, third spaces will come back and the non existent women that aren't 200lb+ will just magically appear.

[u/Obosratsya → u/TedsGloriousPants]

Ive done non of that and women still threw themselves at me.

Cause I am tall and jacked. Never had to do much really. There was a time in my 20s when I was going thru some personal issues and was a complete shithead, yet, the women didnt mind one bit. What advice should I be giving?

[u/woman-aper → u/Obosratsya]

Same lol. The woman kissing my feet in my pfp was a dating app pull. It's been ridiculously easy even when I put in little to no effort and do all the things reddit tells you not to

Women don't swipe like men do on dating apps. 90% of women only swipe on the top 10% of guys. Lots of condescending nonsense in this thread dancing around that fact

[u/3776356272]

I do agree with the general sentiment that it can be harder to talk about specific issues men face. But the claim that men struggle with dating primarily because of their looks is something I genuinely disagree with. I don’t know where y’all live, but I live in a big city, and I’ve never gotten the impression that women only date a certain type of man. You see “ugly” men with beautiful women all the time. I’m not saying looks don’t matter at all, but I don’t think they matter to the extent a lot of y’all claim they do. At some point, it starts to feel more like cope and a way of becoming bitter than an honest assessment of the situation.

[u/TrowaMask]

I don't mind the venting as long as it isn't framed as if ALL girls / women do whatever the thing is the dude is complaining about + they don't conclude "...and this is why men have it harder".

Can't handle that self-victimizing BS.

[u/Polygnom]

The stuff he posts on social media and his beliefs are way more important than height. You got the priorities completely backwards. 

Be a genuine, kind and empathetic person first and you'll find someone.

Oh and get off socials... its toxic.

[u/Superb_Wealth4092]

Crazy that everyone here is proving your point. I always see the same “Short guys get girls every day, I know someone who is short and has a girlfriend, you just suck”, but you know what you’ll never see?

Go to any post where a woman is complaining that men are shallow and won’t date them because of their weight, you’re not gonna see anyone going “Uh, my fat friend has a boyfriend, you just need to actually get a hobby or better personality.”

It’s always just generalizations about men being shallow and how the OP doesn’t need to change a thing, the perfect man is out there and all of these guys don’t know what they’re missing.

Hell, go find a post where a tall girl is complaining that guys won’t date her because of her height, and give her the same advice all of these people are giving short men, and watch how fast everyone turns on you.

Reddit just doesn’t have empathy for men. I would never take serious advice from this website.

[u/BomTradyGOAT → u/Superb_Wealth4092]

This thread is a perfect example of what OP is saying, and you absolutely nailed the reply.

All the top comments are roasting him for complaining about something he is saying he can't safely complain about.

[u/Affectionate-Act1574]

Patriarchal fallout. In a male-led society, men will be expected to “provide” regardless of how egalitarian your views may be. This comes with certain physical (ie strength) and social (wealth) queues. Is it fair? One may argue life isn’t fair. Also something we’re probably stuck with for a while.

Good news is (I hope, dating wasn’t as weird back in my day…) that people mature. Motivations change. Experience changes people. Young dating is volatile, raw, and nobody knows what they want or what they’re doing. The grass always looks greener. People get impulsive. I know saying “it gets better” isn’t what anyone wants to hear, but it should get better as you get older.

[u/MitFahrGelegen]

No amount of self improvement will keep you from getting rejected, it just might help attract interest from more people or help boost self esteem. If avoiding rejection outright is your goal then you’ll be set up for a lifetime of disappointment.

I do think men deserve more support when it comes to talking about their troubles and feelings. At the same time, both sexes get constructive feedback and sometimes it’s helpful. If those social media posts are hateful then that definitely matters to women.

[u/Hot_Broccoli_2050]

I’m 32 and in a relationship so I have no idea how dating is nowadays for the 25 and younger crowd, but I remember struggling to get dates when I was in my early twenties.

Is it that much different nowadays or is it an age thing? I’m genuinely curious

[u/Sufficient_Ebb_5694]

Since when can men not vent about any problems we have? I get that it used to be kind of taboo and you were supposed to just "man up" but it's 2026. If you have someone to talk to that you trust, just let it out. Venting frustrations in an appropriate manner is healthy.

[u/bloodthirstyshrimp]

I dont wanna say the bad words, but it legit is toxic masculinity. To tell guys not to complain, not voice their emotions and "work on yourself" as if it can solve all your issues

[u/Meydra]

It just bothers me when men get the "work on yourself" talk while women women get the "you're perfect the way you are" talk.

[u/kin0enjoyer → u/Meydra]

Comment section here is the perfect example of this 

[u/Creative_Ninja6488 → u/Meydra]

Different pecking order and social currency/hierarchy between men and women by and in large. The "everyone's a ten" and "you're perfect the way you are Queen" is partially women's group dynamics. Also the whole "body positivity" thing that swept US culture for a while that has partially gotten destroyed by Ozempic. In social media it's algo-fodder engagement bait. IRL it's women putting on the appearance of acceptance and accord while knifing each other in the back. The other part, when it comes to dating/sex/relationships, is mate choice sabotage in the form of mate choice guarding and competition. Add in a dose of psychological relationship self-sabotage too.

[u/isaacclarkdead]

Using phrases like "expanded my personality" tells me what I need to know. Stop looking up to toxic men, and following the doctrine of grifters. Stop trying to be someone you're not, I know plenty of short kings with partners much taller than them, its not impossible. Blaming your circumstances on that is a fast track to never growing past that, and missing out on self reflection. The real problem is the social media red pill junk

[u/nottheblackhat]

what do you mean men are not allowed to vent? every dating-related sub is filled with men venting about their struggles. and it is usually other men dragging them back down into the proverbial crab bucket

[u/Eledridan → u/nottheblackhat]

Men aren’t even allowed to vent in their own sub and it’s clearly one gender that’s bringing the hate.

[u/Mediocre-Ant-7178]

I don't think it's fair to say what is or is not important to someone else. You just wrote that person off because...?

[u/Nervous-Ruin-8149]

If you ask for advice from a toxic person and they give you toxic advice, why are you confused that the advice is toxic?

You need to be a better judge of character when looking for support. Find better men.

[u/iddothat]

there’s something you’re saying that i want to push back on- ‘guys are the only people who are not allowed to complain about anything’

you are allowed to complain.

you can complain all you want.

complaining will not help, though.

no one is preventing you or criminalizing your complaining.

when you’re given advice, work on yourself, go to the gym, develop hobby etc, that’s just the natural response to complaints!

for example: your friend is developing a headache and is complaining about it. you suggest, hey, maybe drink some water and take a tylenol. they say ‘what am i not allowed to complain?’
no, of course they are: complaining is a cry for help! this is the help you’re receiving.

now, that doesn’t mean all the help you get will be actually helpful. not all the advice you get is going to apply to you. someone may suggest taking a tylenol but you’ve already taken a tylenol, they may suggest hydrating and you’ve been drinking water all day! so in that case, you need to look deeper and think what can i do about this? maybe you need to go to a doctor, maybe you just want to tough it out, who knows.

in the end, you can complain, but it won’t always get you the response you’re hoping for.

i grew up with out a mother, but i am told that that is what a good mother is for- someone who will hear your complaints and soothe you, but still gently push you to do the things you need to do to get better.

advice from other men is usually very blunt.

[u/DankoMum]

Nothing puts me off more than a guy/girl desperate to date. It's the same energy as those people who want friends because they need to take pictures for instagram, but they don't care about them at all. It's so... fake and unappealing.

Edit: You can genuinely be interested in dating because you want to cherish and take care of your partner, same thing with friends, but the moment you do it because you need to in order to feel good it becomes selfish and desperate and you don't really care who it is, it makes one feel replaceable.

[u/idkyetyet]

holy shit this whole comment section proving OP's point. Actually insane how there's ZERO compassion extended towards his cousin, a million excuses and dismissal of him while knowing NOTHING about his social media posts, not to mention how any of us who has a life knows people will give you a chance despite social media if they find you attractive.

When op says men are not allowed to vent, this is what he means. Not that they literally aren't allowed, but that their venting, frustrations, etc. are always dismissed. And yes, they get gaslit and told excuses for why it is actually their fault.

honestly grossed out by this thread, im stunned at how i saw a single person in 200 comments extend any form of sympathy.

[u/Obvious-Yogurt8049 → u/idkyetyet]

It’s crazy right? If I was in his position I’d choose Reddit too of all social media sites to complain. And better yet I’d choose this sub too because it’s literally called “boy dinner diaries.” And still he gets shit on… feels like the only options for dudes venting online are getting talked down to by condescending Redditor guys or getting verbally obliterated by blackpilled incels on twitter, insta or weird online forums

[u/Small-Taro-8990 → u/Obvious-Yogurt8049]

The safest online space nowadays for guy talk is probably over videogames discords and casual discords with old friends.

[u/Megaboixxxx → u/idkyetyet]

Exactly this. Everyone jumping on the red pill manosphere shit while completely ignoring the fact that young women do in fact use social media too and have had their minds fucked by it also.

[u/LFP-Throwaway-3982 → u/Megaboixxxx]

It's the favorite boogeyman of those who only want to engage in bad faith without addressing any actual issues.

[u/Larcye → u/Megaboixxxx]

Id argue far more woman have been influenced by it than the entirety of the various pills/manosphere. 

[u/Icy-Dragonfly-7525 → u/idkyetyet]

Reading the comments here made me feel genuinely worse. About how “easy” it should be and that I shouldn’t be struggling even if I am ugly and short. And if I’m struggling so incredibly fucking hard with something that’s supposed to be incredibly easy and failing so bad to the point I’ve never been on a date in my life — it’s like… wow. There is something so innately and fundamentally wrong with me. Like I’m a fuck up on a cosmic scale. And I feel like I try very very hard and that isn’t good enough. Despite all my painstaking efforts I’m still not good enough — it’s a moral failing. This should come like breathing and I’m failing at that.

[u/idkyetyet → u/Icy-Dragonfly-7525]

I'm sorry man. The default response to someone struggling being saying that it's entirely due to some obvious issues in his behavior is incredibly dishonest and ill natured. It comes more from people wanting to reinforce their worldview than them actually trying to speak to the person, most of the time.

Encouraging people to better themselves is more productive than wallowing in despair, but when you dismiss someone's frustrations as simply the fault of some vaguely defined behaviors they may or may not do you are not encouraging them to better themselves, you're doing the opposite. They clearly told you they're trying to better themselves and seeing no results, so you're just pushing them further down the rabbit hole by proving to them nothing is changing and no one will acknowledge their efforts; you're telling them it's pointless.

And then redditors do the surprised pikachu face when people who lost all hope and get no actual acknowledgement from their surroundings go to extremists. And their response isn't to acknowledge their struggles and understand why it happens, it's to bash them more.

My personal advice/perspective is that you can always do better, and there's always room to improve your life, or at least your mindset and perception around it, because while we as humans are starved for others' approval the most important approval is in my opinion your own. Love yourself and if the rest doesn't follow, at least you still love yourself. This obviously isn't easy, but it's something to strive for. Don't love yourself for the results you get out of your efforts, but for putting the effort in the first place, regardless of whether it leads to anything.

[u/Kage_noir → u/idkyetyet]

You are well reasoned. You can hear the post of OP and just understand that it is a struggle everyone has. People have preferences and looks are a large part of that. It is not impossible if you dont fit, it is just harder. I do not think saying it is frustrating is demonstrating a hatred of women. I think OP was just asking for a safe place to simply say man it sucks, so he can get it off his chest rather than bottle it up and then maybe move on because you were able to talk and feel like you were being heard

[u/Kage_noir → u/Icy-Dragonfly-7525]

Apparently that is incel behaviour, who knew... you learn a lot on reddit.

[u/a_hunters_vision → u/idkyetyet]

I'm so disappointed and frustrated by these comments.

People generally agree life isn't fair. You could do everything right and still fail or get nothing. For some reason everyone suddenly does a complete 180 if you even suggest that dating isn't fair, that you did everything right and still got no results. 

These discussions frequently turn into "show me the man and I will find you the crime". Very little empathy and it's treated like an open invitation to bash someone. Commenters love to project on to people and dissect people instead of treating them like a person with actual feelings going through something. 

It's disgusting. It is actual toxic masculinity. 

[u/racecar67885 → u/idkyetyet]

After a few hours I concluded this sub has a lot of women, which isn’t a bad thing but like.. Yeah :/

[u/Small-Taro-8990 → u/racecar67885]

Nah it's also guys who project their own life experiences onto others and aren't capable of imagining how bad it could be if they were unfortunate.

[u/Key-Month6651 → u/Small-Taro-8990]

A complete lack of empathy. It's completely disgusting.

[u/thisoneistobenaked → u/racecar67885]

However, the question still stands:

What are these “beliefs” your cousin is posting on social media? I asked in my other comment and it went unanswered.

Several women jumped in and said it was 100% alt right/Andrew Tate style stuff, and I’m not making that assumption, but it does look odd that you mentioned it without saying what it actually was.

[u/FatherCache → u/racecar67885]

Oh man, you go to their sub, girl dinner diaries, and the conversations are not so equal in representation as it is on this sub. Men are outright not even allowed to participate in many cases and their input is genuinely unwanted there. In contrast, I've often found male social circles far more inclusive (outside the red-pill-retards) than that of the opposite sex. I don't think men are as much of the problem as it is regularly stated... maybe a huge part of the problem is the exclusivity exhibited among the ladies.

[u/nappiess → u/racecar67885]

I disagree - that is a bad thing. The women here shouldn't be allowed to comment, just like men aren't allowed to comment in their equivalent sub. They're one of the biggest problems here why you can't post anything to vent or complain without being attacked or told it's your fault. That and the simp guys here, but they would be out numbered if it weren't for all the women. Listen OP, you're completely right about what you say and these people gaslight the fuck out of men when it comes to anything dating related. Just look at the various dating studies, or anecdotal evidences with irl speed dating or other forms of dating, to see the truth. You have guy profiles that say they are women beating criminals in the bio that still get hundreds of matches and messages, because they are tall and attractive or whatever. You should be able to vent and point this stuff out without being insulted and called an incel or something. Everyone already knows guys need to work on themselves 10x as much as their counterparts to have a fraction of the dating success.

[u/Harde_Kassei]

it's one of those, you gotta work with what you got.

if you got not tools to work with, then you gotta make the tools first.

[u/sockalicious]

Male spaces are few and far between these days. And the ones I frequent, men of your generation seem very uncomfortable in.

There's a movie called Lethal Weapon. Product of its time, but it has some good acting. It's from a genre that's almost dead. They call them "buddy movies." Except Lethal Weapon was a weird take on the genre. It was very dark. But in the end, the two protagonists make a space where they can relate to each other.

Find yourself a friend. One true male friend. It's the last male space left. They can't really take it from us.

[u/Creative_Ninja6488 → u/sockalicious]

Did not expect a Lethal Weapon reference today.

And yes, the movie is far less about the action in many many ways. At it's core is about a traumatized, grief ridden SOF Vietnam Vet on the verge of suck starting a 92FS, paired with a straight up family man, the two bonding/finding common ground, and Riggs finding a reason to live instead of trying to get offed in an LOD OIS.

Sequels ruined the franchise, and the original is actually dark AF. The whole Looney Tunes Christmas Special/near self deleting screen is actually particularly well written and acted.

[u/Grouchy_Swordfish364]

Not getting rejected is a pipe dream. Some woman will reject you no matter how good a partner you might be. It's her preference.

Complaining gets you no where. What are you trying to achieve by whining and complaining about dating struggles.

The best advice is to learn the game and figure out what success means to you.

[u/Glittering-Fox3021]

Why do you think his social media posts and beliefs don't matter? That's a stupid take. I think you are leaving some very obvious missing reasons out of this post.

[u/BossNo8538]

Because it’s mostly true, venting doesn’t change reality, you’re better off doing the work. Whinging on the internet or “talking about it” isn’t going to do anything except make you look like an incel (whether you are or not). No one deserves a girl friend or attention from women. You have to make it so that women actually want to talk / be with you.

Go to the gym, take care of yourself, groom yourself. Make actual effort on yourself. Lose the loser behaviour / woe is me attitude (not saying you have it). Women can smell it a mile away. The reason why everyone repeats those tired tropes is because they help you become more confident and happier with yourself. Do you know what attracts women (who aren’t shallow) the most ? Being confident and happy.

Women just want to have fun man. Be fun.

[u/Obosratsya → u/BossNo8538]

Its not even that.

Posts like yours have the right direction but ultimately dont do anything for the person asking. There is a disconnect between advice and how things play out in real life.

Women do not have any kind of magical sense that tells them someones personality, behavior or beliefs. Women like most people will be attracted to good qualities, thats true, but its a numbers game. A bad man who is surrounded by women will have a better romantic life than a good man with few women around him.

So the best advice is to try meet and/or befriend as many women as possible. You'll learn from the interactions and attain a level of comfort that will signal confidence to women. Just make as many female friends as possible and do some female centric activities, purely platonically.

[u/AgentAxillary]

That's a good-lookin pizza. Local joint?

[u/Lepelotonfromager]

It's not about assigning blame but giving practical advice.

Yes it does suck and it's not fair. But if you want to get laid or get a girlfriend, these are the improvements you need to make to get there.

[u/PangolinConscious800]

People like feeling heard. We aren't good at that. I'm here, and I hear you. I'm happy to give advice or I can provide sympathy. Which do you need?

[u/MrJason2024]

I certainly vent about my lack of success in dating but my problems in dating are of my own doing and I accepted that. When I do vent it is usually in that vein. I made a post here on the sub not that many days ago about it coming to terms that maybe I am not meant for dating.

[u/Fit_Raspberry2637]

Stop expecting external validation.

[u/YamHonest2646]

The thing that sucks is that it always seems to get turned around back into how girls have it hard somehow. It’s like we’re not allowed to complain without other things getting brought up.

[u/Vegetable_Hand8674]

I think the real "pill" is that no one owes anyone a date or attraction or sex or any of it. He's 5'2" and maybe that makes him less desirable. In the old days, I think a guy like that would be more comfortable saying "I'm short and no one wants to date me." That's closer to the truth. And there's no blame. No gender war. Nothing about what we are not "allowed" to say. I don't think it's that deep.

[u/Is-Bruce-Home]

Damn, that really sucks, sorry you’re going through that 😭😭

[u/Small-Taro-8990 → u/Is-Bruce-Home]

Lol congrats on being the only empathetic girl in the thread so far.

[u/Falqun]

I love how this comment section confirms OPs point. If that would be a girl posting it would be "oh I know it can be hard" and "yeah men are assholes like that dating sucks" and "we believe in you" and then maybe some of the advice given here. But if it's a guy, nuh uh, no compassion, just straight up "do better" and "deal with it bro" type of stuff.

I get it, you can be critical with some of the stories on here, but please stop reproducing that toxic no compassion allowed for men stuff.

[u/kin0enjoyer → u/Falqun]

Yup, I did a somewhat similar post like OP here, had no hateful or misogynistic "red pill" content whatsoever but not only did I get the same exact treatment (pull yourself up by the bootstraps loser) but the mod also eventually deleted my post because it's "not the right environment for this sort of topic" 🫩

It's just awful to see that point being proven right without people even realizing it. Yes, technically you can vent about stuff like this as a guy (sometimes), but don't u dare expect any supportive comments or sympathy like when women do it. I lurk quite a lot in the womens sub equivalent and I don't remember seeing this type of self-improvement shit and gaslighting even once, it's alwalys about how OP is a queen and should not settle for losers and men are trash etc.

If you're guy, then everyone here (men and women) will just give you shit for it and pretend as if your hardships and struggles are not real because they know some short or ugly guy who is married. The reality is you can be a fine, normal human being and still miss out on dating because of reasons outside of your control. 

Those guys deserve some sympathy too, but they'll never get it. Not surprising that a lot of them get caught by red pill/incel spaces, because the "normal" ones will just try to make you feel like you're some kind of modern day göbbels. 

[u/Obvious-Yogurt8049 → u/kin0enjoyer]

You said it better than I could’ve

[u/SebastianPointdexter]

I'll be honest, your cousin is cooked as the kids say. At 5 foot 2 he is pretty much going to have to accept whomever is willing to give him a chance if he wants to date, and there won't be many takers. Men that are his height have a VERY hard time in life. In everything, even professionally.

[u/Old_Instrument_Guy → u/SebastianPointdexter]

I am 5'4" and while plenty of taller girls turned me away, I found the love of my life 35 years ago. I had to stand on two phone books for our studio wedding photos so I was eye to eye with her.

I found a couple of things to be fundamentally true while I struggled with dating in my 20s.

1. Women are attracted to men who are confident and make eye contact. Having a purpose and direction in your life goes a long way.

2. Gotta make them laugh. Not Joe Pesci Good Fellas Funny, but it shows you have emotional depth.

3. Be aloof. Let things happen organically over time. If you are looking for a quick High in the bedroom you are going to fail more often than you succeed. Sure, you can find a chick who is looking for a quick trick, but it won't last.

4. Get to know her. Literally know who she is, her goals, her wants, etc.. I knew my wife for nearly two years before we started dating. Sure we flirted a lot in that time but we were coworkers.

5. It's the little things. Open the car door for her on the first date. Take her someplace unexpected. You can get a good read by her reaction if she is into you. I took my wife to a country bar two towns away where we did line dancing and threw peanut shells on the floor. It's about building a memory. She still remembers that night.

6. Be honest. No BS. No games. Just be yourself.

[u/SebastianPointdexter → u/Old_Instrument_Guy]

I'm happy for you, but that doesn't change the fact that a 5 foot 2 man is going to have an uphill battle, and frankly most women aren't even going to be willing to even give him a chance. I am 6 foot 5, and I am well aware that if I was a foot shorter, there is zero chance that ANY of my serious long term relationships would have given me a chance if I wasn't my height. All of the things you mentioned do matter, however, they only matter if the woman is willing to give you a chance. Most women aren't even going to give a 5 foot 2 guy a chance. Its an automatic no thanks.

[u/RakeChapman13 → u/SebastianPointdexter]

If you are a legit 6’5 then you would still be taller than most women if were a foot shorter. I have a buddy who is 5’5 and a total ladies man, besides not being rich he has everything else going for him he’s handsome, great physique, confident , strong, charismatic, funny, kind. Most of the women he dates are petite but he’s dated plenty of women who are taller, he even dated this volleyballer chick who was like 5’11 and he walked aorund with her with such confidence- and that is the key. He says a lot of shorter guys are just looking to make excuses for themselves.

Height matters but it gets exaggerated.
Of course most women prefer a guy to be taller but there’s a difference between a preference and a requirement. Most women would date a guy who is slighty shorter if they dig them enough and find them attractive enough in other areas. My girlfriend doesn’t prefer that she’s taller but it’s whatever compared to everything else. But yes a guy being 5’2 is rough, that’s 2 inches shorter than the average woman, for a lot of women that is a deal breaker but there’s fish in the sea and at that height you gotta work to be the best version of yourself.

Also another issue is how people add inches to their height which people have to take into account. Most of the men who say they are 6’0 ft aren’t acfually 6 ft, it’s not suprising when a guy who says he’s 6’1 is 5’10, a lot of women know this and then there’s women who couldn’t tell the difference. Very few women actually have a legit 6 ft standard but guys can see examples of these women online and then fixate on it.

[u/crashcap]

You are allowed to complain, you are also going to receive the proper advice. Working o. Yourself

[u/Admirable_Scratch363]

I’m pretty short. Never had a problem with women. Got married. Happy (most of the time).

I think the problem is where young men are looking for women.

If you’re using dating apps alone you’re an idiot.

You absolutely have to meet women in person in a non-dating setup. Hobbies, classes, benevolent social groups, watching sports at a bar (premier league / nfl / college football ), church, anywhere you can show yourself to be well spoken, good looking, real, and smart.

The problem I had after I started dating and getting married was still doing the things I like without women asking if I was single.

[u/FusRoDawg → u/Admirable_Scratch363]

As someone in your 40s and happily married, you would definitely have been "out of the game" for a while now.

I'm in my early 30s, and I couldn't see myself having the same romantic success if I were a teenager today because of the internet, the decline in 3rd places, everyone's standards being inflated etc.

It's quite tempting to tell yourself you're built different but statistically, everyone from that age group is having fewer romantic and sexual interactions, so I'm likely not going to buck the trend on account of not being a statistical outlier on any other metric.

[u/Mr_Bob_Dobalina_69]

“I completed a checklist and I haven’t been issued a women yet. What gives?”

OP, women reject you because of your insecurity.

[u/Smrtihara]

You are so utterly wrong.

Men do hardly nothing but complain about that. Look at all the dedicated subs about it. And every single dating sub.

Also, I’m not a handsome man and Im below average height. I have never, ever had any problems romantically. It’s been incredibly easy.

I attribute that to understanding early in my youth that everyone has their audience. No matter your particular composition of features, there’s someone who thinks you’re hot. Be yourself to your fullest and never try to attract other than the ones that can be a match for you.

And please, please communicate with women like they are people, not potential dates.

[u/Pegsareus → u/Smrtihara]

This is actually cruel and disrespectful to say, there are ugly people out there, you setting people up saying shit like this.

[u/Next_Gen_Valkyrie]

I mean, what is he reposting on social media? Because as a woman I can tell you that many women won't date a man if his belief system is actively dismantling our rights

[u/Initial_Zebra100]

This feels like a vent or rage bait. In regards to the cousin, he was still doing it for attention. It might eventually work( get in shape and attract more people) but if he doesn't actually feel good then that might come out in his attitude or conversation.

As for men not being allowed to complain. Depends, if they're just blaming women on so called impossible dtandards, yeah, they should be called out because they're just projecting. Women struggle to date as well, for simliar reasons, and some different; ie safety.

Guys should be allowed to vent about it. And yes some pushback is unfair. It's actually ok to struggle or be a late bloomer. People put ridiculous explanations on themselves regarding societal expectations or milestones. And sometimes people will offer somewhat clichéd advice to try to sound supportive when it's entirely subjective to the individual.

[u/skronk61]

Gaslighting can only happen with someone close to you. You’re just getting some harsh truths and not enjoying them.

[u/FLIBBIDYDIBBIDYDAWG]

I feel this. I’ve been doing everything i can. For the past 4 years ive gone to the gym and im definitely fit now. I’ve been doing the best i can with my personality, genuinely, the best i can, every day, but its so hard to just change. Ive gone so far out of my comfort zone, ive tried therapy, ive tried medication, ive tried to just trick myself into “loving myself” like all these bullshit peddlers keep telling me i need to do in order to deserve love. No one wants my ugly ass socially inept autistic retarded self lol

And i can’t blame them. I see social media, too. I understand why women chase that life with the pretty-eyes tall blond boy or whatever their type of hot guy is.

[u/cheeze2005 → u/FLIBBIDYDIBBIDYDAWG]

  No one wants my ugly ass socially inept autistic retarded self lol

I really suggest starting with not using these words to describe anyone. Let alone yourself. 

[u/Plsntly-Unprdctble → u/FLIBBIDYDIBBIDYDAWG]

yeah see that’s the problem, you can’t trick yourself, you gotta stick to the therapy…I used to hate myself too but with meds and CBT, I love myself so much… first thing you have to do it every time you think a negative thought about yourself say “no, *opposite*” so “no, I’m not ugly“ and then something positive “Im fit af, how many people can say that, I’m proud of me”, just do that for every negative thought and it will stop, you don’t even need to compliment yourself, just stay neutral

I’m autistic too (I’m hoping you’re not using that derisively) and I do think being an autistic man is harder because depending on how you present ppl assume the worse of you, your best bet is being honest abt that and don’t try to mask in dating, because you want to be able to be yourself around them

also social media/dating apps, they’re the enemy, you need to find groups, events, parties centered around your interests, idk what your hobbies are but if any are nerdy, there’s A LOT of action to be had in DND, Larping, anime/ comic cons, and gaming communities

[u/Fine_Winter_5231 → u/FLIBBIDYDIBBIDYDAWG]

When people say “you need to love yourself” they don’t mean for you to “trick” yourself, you genuinely need to like/love the person you are

[u/Alternative_Car_8153]

Like it or not, men aren't respected if they complain. There is a lot of complex social examples of men being dehumanized and expected to just take it, because it builds character.

An example is how basic training used to work in the American military. They deliberately exhausted, humiliated, and dehumanized you into submission. This isn't a tactic that's allowed anymore as women started to become a larger component of the military.

So, as far as some older generations are concerned, you have no right to complain. Because, in their minds, complaining makes you weak.

This has had negative consequences were men do not seek out therapy pretty much at all.

[u/hannelore_pfeffer8]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN AS IF HIS BELIEFS ARE SUCH A BIG DEAL??? 😅 IT'S BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT PART! LOOKS JUST GIVE YOU A FOOT IN THE DOOR. WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS WHAT YOU ARE!

[u/Winter_Box_1162]

Im pretty sure the red pill content is the reason behind it. I’m sorry, but you guys talk about the “men loneliness epidemic” and blame women for it but in reality most women nowadays will not tolerate a man that is misogynistic in any way, even if it’s just a small “joke”.
So work on yourself, LOVE women and LOVE spending time with women because from what I can see, gay men appreciate women WAY MORE than straight men.
Just food for thought

[u/Ok_Solid9770 → u/Winter_Box_1162]

I think, deep down, they think they want to be the kind of man that women just throw themselves at. That's not how it works for the vast majority of people.

[u/TheoneNPC → u/Ok_Solid9770]

Hell, i'd love to be that kind of man too. However, luckily i just need to attract one person for a relationship 😌