r/writers • u/TheMetalArchivist • 23h ago
Question Advanced worldbuilding tips?
Hello friends,
I have the main idea for my novel series down, and a decent roadmap for how the story will progress, yet I remain absent to two things; a map (which I posted about in a separate community) and the more in-depth worldbuilding and history.
This is things like the mythology, the religion, slang, more detailed political system, gender roles, and all of that other fun stuff. I have the outline of a language, but I'm not a big fan of it personally. I genuinely enjoy this part of worldbuilding, but always mentally overwhelm myself before I can even begin. So I'm looking mostly for tips on how to do all of that?
Note: high/epic fantasy series with zero human characters
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u/azmarteal 23h ago
The readers should see no more than 10% of your worldbuilding, like a tip of an iceberg, everything else you should keep for yourself. Well, at least that was an advice I saw somewhere.
Also, without a story almost noone would care about the worldbuilding. So you need a story first, and worldbuilding that supports the story.
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u/thewritestory 21h ago
It’s not true that you need a story first. Many great stories were merely world-building at one point.
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u/azmarteal 21h ago
What I meant was first for the reader. Of course you can develop the worldbuilding, but almost noone would be interested in it without a story that take place in that world
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u/James_Crowhearst 10h ago
Larry Niven said, of Known Space, that he'd built the swings and roundabouts, now he had somewhere to play.
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u/James_Crowhearst 17h ago
Yes, I make copious worldbuilding notes. Most never appear in the story at all, and that mostly in dialogue and actions.
For instance, the centaur character in one novel explaining that grooming manes and tails is an extremely intimate act among adults, or centaur parents reminding children to wash their hooves before coming inside (and the human character noticing buckets of water and rags on sticks at the vestibule of every centaur house).
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u/James_Crowhearst 23h ago
I saw a good video on how most fantasy books fail at depicting religions. Even - especially - GRRM. No schisms (Sunni/Shia), no varying denominations (Catholic/Protestants, let alone really obscure sects), no Great People (i.e. Paul, Augustine, Muhammad, Uthman, etc), and very little real impact on the wider world. Certainly none of the really out-of-the-box ideas religions tend to have (transubstantiation, the Night Journey, etc. )
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u/Akuliszi 23h ago
Start with worldbuilding around the story. What towns the characters will visit? What people of these cities do, who do they trade with, who do they believe in? Is there only one temple in each city or maybe there are many? Who has access to education? Who travels between cities? What is between these cities - just wildeness or maybe some farming communities? Are all the cities surrounded by the same farms, or maybe some of them produce more wine and buy wheat from their neihgbours? Maybe one city has their own dragon breeders? Etc.
So - start with what you need for the story and build on that. General ideas at first, and then the little details, interconnections etc. If there are any particular subjects you're more knowledgable about or you enjoy them more, you can also start with them.
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u/Forward-Swimmer-8451 23h ago
Draw from real life history and societies so it's easy to remember. Eg island nations often have boats and excel in maritime . Often raiders by nature due to limited resources of own country. Often fish cuisine etc or hilly terrain might have goats and mining cultures . Strong defense because tactical advantage from a high point etc
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u/Itsme082016 21h ago
I've done it in stages so as not to overwhelm me. Names and their meanings first (rules around names--which I have many). Then mythology--I research and map it all out, with the understanding that it may change. All chapters share one world (the book/plot),but not all chapters share the same sub world (how the magical realism elements/mythology manifests for the relevant character in that particular point of the book. Keeping in mind its the same mythology, I develop the sub world when I'm about to draft the chapter for that character. And so on and so forth.
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u/KittyKayl 20h ago
I usually get my first draft written and build the basics as I go. I have a fantasy that I'm eventually going to start working on revising. I had a basic outline written, but you know, it's amazing how the characters discovered a goblin cave, hidden wizard's tower, or a Big Town... even a freshwater spring in a Shadowlands bog that apparently wasn't supposed to be there and nearly drowned the MC's bog dog...
I decided a long time ago that I could spend my time worldbuilding, then write the first draft, then figure out what worldbuilding was wasted effort and needed to change because it didn't fit the story, or I could write the story and flesh out the world once I knew what the story needed 🤷♀️
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u/looks_at_lines 23h ago
What are your characters going to do? And how will the world help (or hinder) them? If they have to travel, what sort of means of transportation will be available? Teleportation? Giant Turtles? How would those impact the sociology of the various cultures?
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u/Nenemine 23h ago
Starting with worldbuilding if your goal is a story is only as good as it gets you to an actual story as soon as possible. You need characters, you need a conflict, focus on those. The gender roles and the rest will genuinely be easier to figure out once you have the main points figured out, because you'll be more restricted to what actually helps the story.
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u/Important_Pick3371 18h ago
Since you have an (story) idea & also a "roadmap" of where everything is going to happen, ask yourself a few questions:
Who is your hero, heroine or heroes? If they're rich they'll dress one way. If poor, they'll probably be in rags...
What kind of family do they have - if any?
What do they own? Home, weapons, etc.
Who do they worship & ask for guidance from? Whom do they curse for their own bad luck, stupidity &/or lack of skills or knowledge?!
Do they know any lame jokes - that they swear help them pick up new mates?
And, as you stretch your idea into a lite plot - always ask, how could this be any worse for my hero?
Agatha Christie said, "kill your darlings!!"
But, you should embarrass them first! Or have them lose a wager - even worse - have them misplace a necessary item...
Please try to avoid the usual drunken louts - it's been done to death!!
In a group dynamic, some folk will get along better than others - especially if items are being robbed...
And the leader is both a "lucky" choice (to those that know him) & much too headstrong (for those that don't) or who have different reasons for getting rid of him.
Each new area that they enter should present some kind of danger: no water, poisonous food, uncrossable rivers, etc.
Different folk that have being here before - or who "heard" about it, shouldn't agree with each other...
The group has to be kept in a tense state - with fatal dangers outside & a healthy lack of trust inside. Or, the opposite!
You should only have 3 Main action stages - whatever caused the hero to take up the quest; some early clash with the villain's "henchmen" - that the heroes have to escape from(!); &, that last act of violence that the hero thinks they will lose!!
In between that, you have minor acts of courage, rescue & trust building - in the dangerous environment you're laying across their path...
And, always ask - how can i make this worse physically, psychologically, etc?
Drama & tension building includes rough weather, wild animals, fires, stampedes, floods as well.
And, you can build it all up as you write down your novel...
Anyway, Good Luck & let us know how everything turned out, okay?
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u/Best-Guide2087 6h ago
r/worldbuilding r/conlangs or r/casualconlang r/mapmaking r/FictionalPolitics look around and you'll find it.
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u/misteregent 23h ago
Romeo and Juliet
The One Ring
MCU
Darkmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Even if you only know one of those references, a whole story has been opened to you.
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u/misteregent 23h ago
Let me give you an example. I wrote this excerpt yesterday. I started with a young woman nea roses and I knew I wanted her to find a compass. Everything else was worldbuidling while I wrote.
* * * * *
Walking along the outskirts of town, Vera stopped to smell the wild roses. As she bent down, making sure the hem of her dress didn’t get too dirty from the muddy landscape after the previous night’s rain, she noticed something glistening in the dirt.
Being a proper lady, at least trying to be, she didn’t want to dig the object up with her bare hands. Looking around, she noticed a plank of wood that seemed it would do the trick.
Doing her best to dig carefully around the object, she eventually pried it out of the mud, though it still needed to be washed off. She pulled out her kerchief and wrapped the object.
When Vera stood up to head back to town, she looked down at her dress.
“Didn’t do such a great job of keeping it clean, I guess,” she said to the air. “Father won’t be happy.”
Vera did her best not to rush home to her chambers, even though she felt the weight of the dirty object she carried.
“Vera!” Her name bellowed through the brick-lined hallways. The flames in the sconces seemed to shiver at her name.
She knew that voice all too well. The voice that had raised her since her mother passed away.
Doing her best, she walked ladylike to her father’s chambers.
Careful not to cross the threshold, timidly she asked, “Yes, Father?”
“Where have you been all morning?” he demanded.
“I went for a walk to see how beautiful the roses were after the rain last night, Father. Did you know that when the sunlight hits them just right, they sparkle like jewels or like the night sky?”
“The roses? You went to see those?” her father asked, a bit stunned.
“Yes, there’s a beauty to them that is difficult to find in this drab town.”
“Don’t go near those roses again! I forbid you!”
“But…,” she started, then held up her dirty kerchief.
“Look at you! You’re filthy! Do you know how long it will take to wash that dress and that kerchief? How could you ruin them both…and on the same day?”
Without saying a word, Vera turned on her heel and retreated to her chamber, throwing herself on her bed. Filthy dress and all.
A moment later Vera realized she was lying on top of the dirty object, still wrapped in her kerchief. But the moisture from the mud had soaked through her kerchief and onto her dress.
Looking at the spot, she realized what she had done.
Speaking to the object, she said, “With all the trouble I’ve gone through to get you, you’ve given me nothing but trouble. I hope you were worth it.”
She made her way over to a bucket of water which was sitting next to the small fire burning in the fireplace.
Unwrapping the object, she let it sink into the bucket and swished it around with the end of her brush.
Reaching into the water, she removed some of the dirt from the object before pulling it out. Looking at it, she rubbed off the remainder of the dirt.
“That’s all you are? I ruined mother’s dress and kerchief for…a compass?”
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u/wheretheinkends 23h ago
Be careful about World building disease it's a real thing and if you're trying to write a book World building can help but if you're like me you can also get so lost in it that you tend to work on that more than the book itself.
Remember that if your world building for a book The World building should serve the purpose of the book. Now you don't necessarily need a map and you don't need to map out the entire everything it can be helpful and it can give you ideas but you should tailor the World building to what you're trying to say with your book.
And remember both the World building and destroying the book can be changed what I mean by that is just because your world building says XYZ doesn't mean it's set in stone if this if while riding the book you find yourself going in another Direction you can Change the World building to accommodate it you can also do the same with the World building you can change a World building to accommodate your book.
Basically try to find out what you're trying to say with your story and then Taylor everything to be in service to that I think that's the strongest approach personally because readers are there for the story they aren't there to read it Encyclopedia of Your World building no matter how good it is. Even Tolkien which is the example of great world building did so in the service of his story.