Yeah pretty much. If it had ended like that the story would have been pretty much over for me. Not bad or something. Its even a kind of fitting end. But an end.
Fair enough if that's your honest opinion. You would have struggled through the Winter section of the game, you spend a good hour or two with Ellie on her own with no idea Joel is alive. It's interesting cos I distinctly remember that was the most praised section of the game when it released.
I don’t think it was popular because people thought Joel was dead, it was because the narrative of what Ellie went through in his absence was very compelling
I'm not saying it was popular because people thought Joel was dead, I'm just pointing out that if someone thinks Joel dieing is bad writing and immediately ends the story they're going to struggle with those hours.
It’s not even that I dislike Ellie, it’s just that she was 1 of 2 characters I actually gave a fuck about, and I thought the reason for killing Joel off was kind of stupid, unwarranted, and too early just to push the narrative of dual female protagonists.
Again, don’t care that there are multiple women as main characters, it’s just that I don’t give a fuck about one of them and the other I was there for the interactions with a now dead character.
His arc was complete at the end of TLOU, there wouldn't have been a part 2 at all if he'd been alive, there was nothing left for them to say. The whole story was a direct result of Joel's choice to lie to Ellie at the end of part 1, personally that was the thing I found so riveting, because we discovered Ellie had found out the secret and wanted nothing to do with him, yet was this driven by his death. Finding out at the end that Ellie had forgiven him the very day he'd died was heartbreaking. It's a pity the story didn't work for many people.
What do you mean there is nothing left to say? It’s about them living in a post-apocalyptic world there are always stories to tell, I wasn’t a fan of them walking themselves into a corner when it came to the cure at the end of the first game either.
I was playing the game for Joel and Ellie, and seeing how they survived against adversity, together. What exactly is Ellie’s arc after the first game? She had just as little open and unresolved as Joel did, they completed their journey and it got them a big nothing burger. Based off what you think, why make a second game at all?
TLOU isn't about just random hijinks in a post-apocolyptic world, it's very specifically a character study. There is very little plot, the cure was only a plot device to get the characters on their journey. I'm always surprised to hear people reference it as if it's a major element, just think about how little progression there ever is on that front in part 1, it's not like at any point from Boston to Salt Lake City there's an iota of extra detail on it. It's a very clearly just a McGuffin, what's important in TLOU is character.
At the end of TLOU Joel's arc was complete, they were never ever going to write more for him just for the sake of writing more.
What exactly is Ellie’s arc after the first game?
She has two, one in the past and one in the present. Her arc in the past is her coming to decide that despite Joel's actions with the Fireflies taking away her purpose, she still wants to try to forgive him, because she loves him. In the present, she's traumatised by witnessing Joel's death, and becomes obsessed with the idea that revenge will fix her. It drags her down as everyone around her tries to convince her to turn away (except Tommy), until finally in the moment she knows she can kill Abby she accepts revenge isn't fixing anything. Tommy's arc certainly isn't done, he'll likely be a major character in part 3. And obviously Abby's arc mirrors Joel in part 1.
Based off what you think, why make a second game at all?
Because they had more to say with Ellie (and Tommy) obviously.
The cure isn’t a mcguffin lol, it was the only reason they weren’t holed up in a safe area indefinitely. The reason it wasn’t touched on during the story is because neither Joel or Ellie are doctors and all they knew was “we need to go west”. It still was the entire point of their journey.
As far as Ellie “needing to forgive Joel” being a plot point, honestly I couldn’t care less now, on account of Joel being dead. Kind of killed that point for a lot of people when they killed Joel. To the second point, trauma of watching Joel’s death also didn’t need to be written.
For all intents and purposes, as the first game ends, the only thing left for either of their arcs is “Will Joel eventually tell Ellie he lied” and “Will Ellie figure it out/forgive him”. IMO they both had just as little of a reason to have their stories continued, by your own metrics.
What I’m getting at is, they could have said more with both Joel and Ellie, it was only their unnecessary decision to begin the second game that makes it the way you lay out, and a lot of people hated it for the reasons I’m saying.
That's what a McGuffin is. It's undeniably a McGuffin, there's no argument there.
For all intents and purposes, as the first game ends, the only thing left for either of their arcs is “Will Joel eventually tell Ellie he lied” and “Will Ellie figure it out/forgive him”. IMO they both had just as little of a reason to have their stories continued, by your own metrics.
It isn't about a continuation of their part 1 arcs, it's that Joel's entire character is built around his loss of Sarah and then finding a new surrogate daughter and reason to live with Ellie. To try and say more with that character would have been to force something more from a life story that was complete. Joel had already lost his reason for living and then returned from that in part 1, that was the major story of his life. To try and say more with him would only have been a shadow to what he went through in part 1.
To the second point, trauma of watching Joel’s death also didn’t need to be written.
You can say that about literally every story ever. Nothing "needs" to be written. The writers had more to say with Ellie's story, that was why it was written.
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u/conjureWolff Apr 21 '24
Did you feel the story had ended when he appeared to die at the university in part 1? You know he isn't the only main character right?
It's a hell of an opinion that TLOU isn't the kind of story that kills off characters.