The PS5 system itself is running on pc

[u/3nnb]

Recently, we have seen massive developments in PS5 emulators (such as shadPS4 and Kyty), and how rapidly they have progressed in a short period.

​Now, developers have successfully booted the actual PS5 system software on PC.

​If this momentum continues in the future, it will eventually allow players to run PS5 exclusives directly on PC, marking the end of the era of console exclusivity.

[u/gibagger]

If you think software development is not a creative job, then you have never developed software.

It's not creative in the whimsical freedom sense, but it's all about using creativity to solve problems.

[u/GenderGambler → u/gibagger]

Software development is absolutely a creative job, but reverse engineering is not; and it is actually one of the things AI actually excels at

Which is worrying in and of itself, due to several other things we take for granted about software development as a whole.

[u/Toodlez → u/gibagger]

Very few people consume code as art, though, so its kind of a moot point.

[u/LeoRidesHisBike → u/Toodlez]

By that logic, the degree that art is popular determines how much it is "art". That... doesn't track.

Unless I missed your point.

[u/Toodlez → u/LeoRidesHisBike]

Im not worried about the definition of art. Im talking about peoples feelings towards AI replacing actors and musicians as opposed to AI replacing programmers.

[u/LeoRidesHisBike → u/Toodlez]

The fact that you're calling them "programmers" instead of something more faithful to the craft like "software developer", paired with your lack of concern about the impact to that craft represents an opportunity for you to learn that it IS craftsmanship. Software creation is creative expression in an extraordinarily unique way that no other medium can express.

This is not about "AI replacing actors and musicians vs. AI replacing programmers". It's about AI changing the way we create everything.

[u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow → u/Toodlez]

What do you think a video game is?

[u/ShotgunShine7094 → u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow]

You're not looking at the code when you play a video game. You don't even have access to the source code, only machine code.

[u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow → u/ShotgunShine7094]

You aren't looking at someone wave a paint brush around when you look at the Mona Lisa. Therefore painting, the act of waving a paint brush around, isn't consumed as art and isn't a creative process.

Sculpting is the act of hitting stuff with with a chisel. Very few people consume twitch live streams of sculpting. And yet, sculpture is an art form.

Often there is a layer of seperation between what an artist does and what other people appreciate.

Code is the central piece of video games. There are a lot of other pieces, 3d modelling, music, voice acting and textures for example. But game code is the central piece that makes a videogame a videogame and not a movie. How can something be a creative/artistic endeavor if the defining element is not creative?

[u/ShotgunShine7094 → u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow]

Choosing where to put the paint and how to do your strokes is a creative process. The act of moving your hand with the brush and putting paint in the canvas is not a creative process. It's a means to an end. If you could control the paintbrush with the power of your mind no one would say it detracts from the art.

Code is a means to an end, too. If you could somehow make a game without code no one would say it makes it less artistic. People care about game design, aesthetics, story, etc. No one is reading the code for your game and admiring the aesthetics of it.

And to be clear, I'm not just saying "people don't enjoy looking at you coding" (despite it being true). I am saying they don't enjoy looking at your code even after it's finished. No one cares. Which is what makes it different from the examples you gave where people are not interested in the process but are interested in the finished piece.

[u/Arnas_Z → u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow]

Mostly the plot, characters, and gameplay. The code running things like a physics engine is irrelevant and you wouldn't even notice if it was AI code or not.

[u/EnvironmentClear4511 → u/Arnas_Z]

So if AI could create art and plot that was human-like enough to pass, that'd be kosher? 

[u/ObiLAN- → u/EnvironmentClear4511]

Depends really, theres a ton of nuance with the tool like AI.

For art: Was the data sets it was trained on stolen, thus the result being a cumulative outcome based within that dataset? AI cant create new concepts, only makes results on the most likely outcome based on its rules sets and data that already exists.

Was it a model trained on a writer or artist themselves in a closed private system and producing outputs based on their personal ruleset?

In my opinion, the first is theft, the seconds using a tool.

Its like programing a CNC machine, the tools making its cuts based on an input. The person programmed the parameters to turn a round stock into a cube. But the operator didn't make the part. Noone cares about the programing, they care about the shiny new cube.

Either way the end user can't tell the difference nor would they care, assuming its not obvious slop.

Also it wasn't that long ago people where mad about artist creating digital art on a computer vs. Paper/canvas/etc.

[u/EnvironmentClear4511 → u/ObiLAN-]

But you aren't upset about possible code theft? 

[u/ObiLAN- → u/EnvironmentClear4511]

Again, there's nuance there. Even more so with code.

So in the world of programming, it mainly lives within an already built set of instructions that people follow (languages). They're just manipulating the underlying languages to translate what they want to be outputting from a computer. It's very rarely we ever see something genuinely new/different at a deep systems level.

I do think stealing closed source code is theft 100%.

But also FOSS exists and code is shared constantly openly.

So depends on where the data around the code comes from.

[u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow → u/ObiLAN-]

LLMs are trained on code with specific licensing and ignore that licensing. In my opinion, any company producing code with an LLM and not open sourcing it is in blatant violation of the GPL license the LLM companies stole their training data from.

[u/Hohenheim_of_Shadow → u/Arnas_Z]

Gameplay is code bruh. When you click to shoot in COD, all the netcode, hit reg, recoil, state synchronization between you the server and your enemy is code. Sufficiently large and complex games often have Domain Specific Languages to simplify some of the repetitive code, but it's all code.

Like if you just have plot, characters and art, you have an animated movie. Not a videogame. Your interaction with game code is the defining element of the video game medium

Like maybe you want to say that LLMs are good enough at video game code that you don't mind it. That's a fair take. Just have the same attitude to other usage of GenAi.

[u/silentrawr → u/Toodlez]

They "consume" the experience they have with the resulting software, however.

[u/Chris275 → u/Toodlez]

Yeah, people don’t enjoy video games, you’re totally right.

[u/ShotgunShine7094 → u/gibagger]

When a person uses software, or any engineering product, they don't care that you were creative. They care that you solved a problem.

That is different than a piece of art in which creativity is kinda the entire point.

[u/ScubaSteve2324 → u/gibagger]

So…an engineer?

[u/harbourwall → u/gibagger]

But you still do that bit. The AI does all the boring stuff for you.

[u/Dick-Fu → u/harbourwall]

The AI has been doing all of the problem solving too

[u/harbourwall → u/Dick-Fu]

It can, but you get better results if you supervise and do the creative thinking.

[u/Dick-Fu → u/harbourwall]

It's significantly and meaningfully less than we had to previously. Claude's taking the place of several juniors, and a lot of the responsibility of a senior

[u/harbourwall → u/Dick-Fu]

For me at least they're not taking anything that I'm not gladly giving it. My function is dramatically more fulfilling.

[u/Dick-Fu → u/harbourwall]

Yeah that's how it's going in most workplaces, and it's management/owners choosing what to give

[u/harbourwall → u/Dick-Fu]

Sorry I thought you were implying there was some sort of problem?

[u/Dick-Fu → u/harbourwall]

Then you should read the thread again, I'm just correcting you so you can make your own judgement

[u/harbourwall → u/Dick-Fu]

Correcting what? I think maybe you misunderstood what I was saying.

[u/themoosh → u/gibagger]

Lots of things require creativity. Grouting tile can involve creativity. That doesn't mean my bathroom is art