r/nextfuckinglevel • u/Grouchy_Debate_8546 • 1d ago

Tic tac toe ,he even won

8.8k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

165 comments sorted by

1.7k

u/Weekly-Ratio-230 1d ago

If you notice, the guy lost deliberately. But I guess the takeaway here is, the raven knows how to win.

919

u/SatyrAngel 1d ago

And knows that he won.

73

u/ssracer 1d ago

does he know when he loses?

96

u/SatyrAngel 1d ago

If the owner has both eyes that means the crow never lose.

21

u/HoS_CaptObvious 1d ago

That would've been the next video but the crow killed the guy after it lost

8

u/Stwike_Him_Centuwion 1d ago

Quoth the Raven, "Why'd you throw that game? I watched you do it. Do you think I'm an idiot?".

284

u/Jeggu2 1d ago

It knows how to take turns, the rules, and the win condition. Quite smart little birds

3

u/Pixel_Knight 1d ago

We can’t prove any of that from this video. She knows how to drop the red tiles into a spot. Who knows how many times he filmed games for this outcome.

Not saying it is impossible to teach a raven the game, but I am saying that is a lot less likely than him teaching her how to just drop a tile into the board. 

13

u/TeblowTime 1d ago edited 1d ago

Or, the more likely scenario, he trained the crow to drop the pieces in those locations to receive a treat.

Guys, I never said it was impossible for the bird to know the game mechanics, I said it was less likely. Please stop conflating less likely and impossible.

72

u/Moggetti 1d ago

Is it more likely? Corvids in general are highly intelligent. 

-26

u/TeblowTime 1d ago

Than an animal understanding the full mechanics of a game? Yes, yes it is more likely. I didn't say it was impossible for the bird to understand it, but it's definitely not the more likely explanation. If they played again with a different configuration, sure, but we only see one game... That they've probably played 1000 times in that exact order.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/TeblowTime 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm aware and not discounting their intelligence. Could this crow fully understand the mechanics? Sure, but that's definitely not the more likely scenario because it'd be far easier to just train them to do this step-by-step process.

I feel like a lot of people here need to Google the definition of "more likely."

9

u/janedeedee 1d ago

People are not listening to you.. I get what your saying. It's not a hard concept. And bird intelligence is a special interest of mine. Doesn't discount what your saying.

14

u/TeblowTime 1d ago

Thank you, definitely didn't expect that many people to not comprehend something so simple. I offered another explanation for the outcome, that's it. I think it's because I was kind of raining on the parade.

3

u/janedeedee 1d ago

Story of my life haha. Facts before fun I say!!! 😅

-9

u/Tantrum2u 1d ago

It’s because you kinda come off like a dick. I mean take what you just said, “definitely didn’t expect that many people to not comprehend something so simple.” That’s literally not what’s going on.

People understand what you’re saying, they just disagree with it. You may be right here, but instead of just accepting that two people can have separate ideas of which thing is more likely you act as if you are definitively correct and if people understood what you are saying they would agree with you.

We don’t know what this scenario is. You think there is a greater chance that the bird was taught to do specifically this video. Other people think there is a greater chance the bird was taught to play tic tac toe. That’s it.

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u/onrocketfalls 1d ago

I got what you were saying too and I do agree that just teaching the bird to put those pieces in those specific slots is easier. That said, if you think it required 1000 practice runs, you might be discounting their intelligence just a bit. Maybe that much if the bird actually is playing the game, but "pick this up and put it there for food" seems to be one of the easier things to teach them.

0

u/Mothramaniac 1d ago

They actually are methodical. They can be extremely petty as well, teaching other crows who to despise and target. They definitely have object permanence which to me indicates that they have enough intellect to play games.

I've seen a crow put rocks in a glass of water to raise the water level so it could drink. You can also teach them to look for loose change and steal dollar bills off tables by giving them rewards which is a kind of game.

5

u/TeblowTime 1d ago

It's possible, but just because some birds are intelligent as kids, doesn't mean all are. They'd have a spectrum of intelligence, just like humans.

Also, humans typically gain object permanence by 18-24 months. I don't think many 2 year old will fully understand the mechanics of tic-tac-toe. Again, nothing I have stated criticized their intelligence. The comment I responded to was stating that the bird 100% understood the game. They made the more rigid claim. I offered a counter to it that would have resulted in the same outcome without the bird knowing the game. Reddit is very weird some times. I guess because I rained on the parade I was targeted?

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Moggetti 1d ago

I mean, yeah. This is a short video meant for amusement. They did not post a series of tic tac toe games with a bird. Because that would be less interesting. 

3

u/VariousAir 1d ago

Because that would be less interesting. 

more likely because it would break the illusion the crow is actually playing the game and not just trained to pick up pieces and drop them.

7

u/EchoGolfHotel 1d ago

If the crow were actually any good at it, he would have taken the center square to start. 🤷

-1

u/The_Common_Peasant 1d ago

You underestimate the intelligence of these amazing animals

8

u/VariousAir 1d ago

you might be overestimating.

-2

u/The_Common_Peasant 1d ago

They're as smart as a 7 year old. For an animal that's pretty smart

4

u/VariousAir 1d ago

No. They're not.

You can like crows without pretending they're more than what they are.

-7

u/The_Common_Peasant 1d ago

a simple Google search proves you wrong

Crazy that we live in a world with information at our fingertips yet people like you can't look up a simple factoid about Crows without someone else having to do it for you

7

u/Thaurin 1d ago

"Performances are similar to those of children under seven years of age when solving this task" is not the same as "they're as smart as a 7-year-old."

9

u/VariousAir 1d ago

Yeah, I read that blog post long before you ever sent it. Crazy that we live in a world where you think dropping the first google result that might prove your claim is somehow a slam dunk way to "win" a conversation.

The study compares crows and children on specific water displacement reasoning tasks. It doesn't establish that crows have the general intelligence of a seven year old human. You're taking one task specific comparison and treating it as a universal measure of intelligence, then acting smug about how a google search supposedly proves you right. The research is a lot more nuanced than the claim you're repeating.

"as smart as a 7 year old" is not established scientific fact. Animal intelligence doesn't just neatly translate into human child age. this doesn't mean I think crows are dumb, they're obviously intelligent. just try not to confuse a catchy comparison with an actual measurement.

-5

u/Iron_Elohim 1d ago

right? the younger generation is actually failing to surpass the previous generation in test scores. Even with the most powerful handheld computers with them 24/7...

I cant wait to see Brawndo for what plants crave in 10 years...

-1

u/TeblowTime 1d ago edited 1d ago

You underestimate what people will do for internet clout. I said, "more likely." My explanation is the more likely. Are you suggesting the bird knowing the full mechanics of the game is more likely?

2

u/The_Common_Peasant 1d ago edited 1d ago

nope, I'm not

(For anyone wondering. Doofus here edited his comment to try and make it look like I'm agreeing with him)

1

u/Pixel_Knight 1d ago

Just because that may be true, doesn’t mean the intelligence is the same as humans. Humans have evolved a brain for language for example, so crows may have intelligence similar to that of a 7 year old, but the difference in species means they likely don’t have the intellectual capacity for language that a seven year old does. Just like a seven year old doesn’t have the intellectual capacity for complex flight maneuvers that a crow can complete by barely thinking. Similarly, a crow’s symbolical understanding and abstract thinking may not be elevated enough to understand the concept of playing a game, winning, a game, or the rules of a game. 

You think that we’re underestimating the intelligence of a crow, whereas I think YOU are underestimating how much a difference in species changes how intelligence is effectively expressed. It will not be the same between two species even if there is quantifiable parity between the two. 

1

u/TeblowTime 1d ago edited 1d ago

Cool, glad we agree then that I'm right on what's more likely. Crazy to me that so many people think "less likely" = "impossible."

4

u/The_Common_Peasant 1d ago

Boy I love when people edit their comments in order to try to make the replier look bad. It really let's me know that I'm engaging with someone who totally isn't a bad faith actor. For anyone wondering his original comment was just the first sentence. Everything else after that was added on in some attempt to make me look dumb or something

4

u/TeblowTime 1d ago

Holy deflection! So, what is your response to the first sentence, then? You made yourself look bad by not knowing what "more likely" means.

I added another sentence. THE AUDACITY!!!

2

u/The_Common_Peasant 1d ago

Yet another comment edit. Bros a professional gaslighter

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u/The_Common_Peasant 1d ago

Oh and in response you your original question. Yes I know what people on the internet will do for clout, but you are underestimating how intelligent crows are. Clearly more than you

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u/Ghost2326 1d ago

Less likely/impossible

-1

u/sunrise98 1d ago

Well why wouldn't he teach the bird the proper play? Or the 3rd counter - the clearly obvious best move is to go for the middle for the guaranteed win.

The bird tries to put the second counter in the same spot as the first.

All this to say, it's a bird ffs, just enjoy it.

4

u/TeblowTime 1d ago

I'm saying, it's more likely that the bird is trained and not that he understands the game. As in, if they played again and the human made different plays, the bird wouldn't adjust accordingly.

That's literally it, no need to get all huffy because I rained on the parade of people anthropomorphizing.

1

u/temp91 1d ago

They used to have chickens at the state fair the public could play tic tac toe with. Even they understood general play. Crows are intelligent enough to make tools. A smart one could probably build the game board, then play you.

2

u/TeblowTime 1d ago

No, they didn't understand the game, they understood that placing a shape in an opening gave them snacks. If the crow understood, the human wouldn't have needed to throw the game. The crow, also, just takes the piece closest to it. When the guy picked up the white X, the crow tried to take it, because it is trained to take a piece and put it in an opening on the board.

Crows are intelligent enough to use tools. Again, not questioning their intelligence, but recognizing faces, using a stick to push out a treat, etc. are not the same as understanding the rules, strategy, and win conditions of a game that has dynamic inputs.

1

u/Eriiya 17h ago

man everyone under this comment sounds absolutely insufferable lmao.

0

u/mrNepa 1d ago

The bird has no idea about the rules, win condition or that it even won a game. It understands the task of putting these things in the holes to get a reward, that's about it.

3

u/VariousAir 1d ago

yeah. the guy uploaded the video where the crow put them down in a row, but discarded the previous videos where the crow just dropped them anywhere.

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u/chukkysh 1d ago

Yeah, let's see how the cocky little shit fares against a noughts and crosses grandmaster, eh? Then tell me it's clever.

(I think I was much more impressed than you.)

7

u/etherealsmog 1d ago

I don’t think this particular video demonstrates that the bird understands how to win.

He may understand that placing three in a row gets him a treat, but we can’t ascertain from this alone that he understands that the other player is also trying to get three in a row.

If we saw him block a move or position the pieces in a way that he has two paths to reaching three regardless of the other player’s next move, I might feel like he understands how to win.

15

u/Weekly_Mark6516 1d ago

yeah he def threw that but the raven still had to spot the line and take it

how do you even teach a bird tic tac toe without it just pecking the screen lol

5

u/drunkenpoets 1d ago

Or he sucks at tic tac toe

2

u/EuphoricCatface0795 1d ago

Why do you assume human didnt do his best thats insult to both the crow and human >:(

2

u/SheriffBartholomew 1d ago

Does it know how to win, or does it know the specific sequence in which to place its pieces? I think probably the latter.

1

u/Chimpmaxxer 1d ago

The crow made a mistake on the third tile, if placed on the center it would've been a sure win

1

u/Fyrus93 1d ago

Maybe the human is a dumbass

1

u/makemeking706 1d ago

Pro tip: always let the corvid win. 

1

u/andreasbeer1981 1d ago

he didn't know to occupy the middle in the third move for a safe win.

1

u/tcpukl 1d ago

Yeah the human was shit at noughts and crosses.

279

u/id8 1d ago
  1. Plays 2. Wins 3. knows he won 4. happy about it

wut

42

u/StaendutBlakk 1d ago

Probably was taught that three in a row of whatever colour it is given means treats as long as the things go in the boxes.

Corvids are smart, but I'm not sure they're smart enough to genuinely understand rules and win conditions of games.

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u/Moggetti 1d ago

Had to be taught to take turns as well. 

6

u/VariousAir 1d ago

is he actually taking turns or just taking his turn when the guy hands the bird a piece to put down? the only time he waits to take a turn is at the 12 second mark, but it's also looking at the guys hand probably wondering if he has a treat.

14

u/Moggetti 1d ago

Yes he’s taking turns. Because the guy handed him multiple pieces at once and he did not place them all at once. It’s right there in the video. 

I’ll add that we can teach dogs to take turns. It’s hardly surprising we can also teach a crow to do it. 

5

u/Prestigious_Spread19 1d ago

I think a corvid could be taught to play something like tic tac toe properly, even if it's not as well as a human might. But it just wouldn't care about winning for the sake of winning, only a reward it gets for winning.

1

u/NimJickles 1d ago

But you just described all the rules of tic tac toe. Other than that you have to place one piece at a time, which it also knew. At this point I think it's just down to how you want to define understanding and knowledge.

1

u/blahblah19999 1d ago

Or the guy's reaction tells him the game is over.

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u/Dartz_Reverse 1d ago

Crows are definitely smart enough to understand a relation like "3 hearts in a row = treat".

2

u/kranker 1d ago

Yeah, I think it was the guy's reaction

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u/grmkrk 1d ago

Tic Tac Crow 😎

10

u/Chamanomano 1d ago

This is Gosha. And Gosha isn't a crow.

2

u/Llermn 15h ago

🤓

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u/SonicTheHedgehog99 1d ago

I love how he knows he won hehe

18

u/69_SAITAMA_69 1d ago

Hi sonic

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u/SonicTheHedgehog99 1d ago

Hello Saitama

11

u/Powerful-Chard-6055 1d ago

Put me in the screenshot 

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u/michiganstrange 1d ago

Anyone that doubts this shit has never had these fuckers unlatch a gate to merk your chickens

16

u/BrokenKing99 1d ago

Or watched their neighbour get constantly swarmed by them after said neighbour smacked one with a cricket bat (yeah dude was a c-nt and was so glad he moved)

Cause man corvids carry a grudge, but are also very intelligent having the same problem solving skills as chimps or apparently 7 year old children so whilst this person did let them win it definitely knew what it was doing.

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u/ExecutiveCactus 1d ago

they also pass along hated people across other birds and generations

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u/Enzian_Blue 1d ago

And he even fooled the human player by putting his stone to the right first! Very smart.

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u/pc_gamerguy 1d ago

The guy must have lost deliberately but the impressive part is that the raven knows the rules of the game

2

u/blahblah19999 1d ago

does it?

3

u/Disastrous-Hour2375 1d ago

vsauce theme playing in the background

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u/Capn_Flags 1d ago

RIP, Raven Bro.

4

u/sherlip 1d ago

The crow should've put his third piece in the center. What is he, stupid? /s

4

u/SteroidSandwich 1d ago

The raven looks so happy to have won. Like he can't believe it

3

u/say_weed 1d ago

actually the crow fucked up, tictactoe is a solved game and your first and second moves should always be the same, and he got them wrong

(i'm not saying what the moves are in case people don't want to know)

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u/That-Dragonfruit172 1d ago

You can put a spoiler white out that people who want to know can click.

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u/say_weed 1d ago edited 16h ago

good call
so, whoever starts wins or its a draw.

edit:so i messed up a little, actually first two moves aren't exactly the same all the time, it's a bit more complex then that. ultimately if both play perfectly its a draw, but first player is more in controll if the're not perfect. the original was just a strat i used most commonly since i descovered it in school and was a shithead about it, i also think its the best first and second moves, but second move should actually be played based on the opponents moves.
sorry for missinformation

original comment: (wrong, left in for context)you put the first X in any corner (the crow actually got it right) and the second X goes in the middle, rest is all forced moves until you win. the only way you don't win is if the opponent puts O in the middle, in that case it's a draw

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u/brother_of_menelaus 1d ago

Why would it not be that the first X goes in the middle, and then the next X goes into one of (at a minimum) 3 other available corners?

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u/say_weed 16h ago

yeah i messed up, first in the corner i think still gives you more winning chances, but second more shouldn't always be in the middle

i edited the original response, but i fear i misinformed 390 innocent people, and i am sorry

as an apology here's my definitive guide to tic tac toe with corner opening

2

u/Educational-Tea602 1d ago

Nah, the second move was fine - P2 blundered on move 1, P1’s move 2 was fine, but blundered on move 3 (winning -> losing, centre was best). P2 then blundered - centre was best again.

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u/Different_Gate333 1d ago

Dude this guy suck ass at tic tac toe!

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u/Proof_Escape_813 1d ago

And he kindly let the bird win because if he had put his in the middle on that third move he would have won.

2

u/NoDoOversInLife 1d ago

Now, if he can just figure out how to remove the bindings on his legs 😭

2

u/MustangXIV 1d ago

An IQ too high?

2

u/Melodic_Abalone_8376 1d ago

An IQ too high?

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u/EngineerVirtual7340 1d ago

Iirc they're as smart as 7 year old humans on an estimate.

So incredibly smart.

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u/Pellepuu2397 1d ago

We ALL need a 7 year old kid vs a crow tic tax toe 🥹
https://giphy.com/gifs/PzmwZmvqZA191oqu3L

1

u/Qoppa_Guy 1d ago

The game-winning caw

1

u/wuupah 1d ago

Very happy birb aw

1

u/Supercruise7 1d ago

A Ravensoftware game

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u/Vexzarion 1d ago

he knew what he doing

1

u/DoubleCactus 1d ago

This is the opposite of pigeon chess.

1

u/Bubis20 1d ago

If the raven would be smarter by a notch, he could force the win in 3rd move...

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u/Kimb0_91 1d ago

I love ravens

1

u/Chasing_Sin 1d ago

Tic Tac Crow

1

u/Merry-Leopard_1A5 1d ago

chud birb missed the easiest fork by taking center on his 3rd puck /j

it's kinda impressive it learned the win conidition of tic-tac-toe

1

u/Iamoldsowhat 1d ago

he won and laughed in your face!

1

u/Anon_1__ 1d ago

Imagine getting mocked by a bird for being stupid 😂

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u/plutino- 1d ago

I fucking love crows and ravens

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u/OliverCarrol 1d ago

Yeah the guy purposely lost. The bird is just putting things down