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My $200,000 semi truck has car stereo button panel for a shifter.
I need to downshift 2 or 3 gears by pressing the “-“ button before starting down a steep hill (At 80,000 lbs, not using engine breaks will fry my break pads). I either need to take my eyes off the road or pray my muscle memory hits the right button. If I accidentally hit “M”, the automated manual transmission will go into manual mode and won’t automatically shift, requiring me to unexpectedly take my eyes off the road to upshift before I blow the engine.
2024 Volvo VNL860. This all happened when I bought the truck 3 years ago, so I might be a little foggy on some of the details.
I only took delivery of this truck because they didn’t have any with the seat mounted shifter available on the lot. The dealership assured me it could be retrofitted into my truck, but I was over $12,000 into truck payments before I learned they’d charge me $2,500 to do it. I could just install the parts myself, but the truck’s computer would need to be updated to recognize the seat mounted shifter’s inputs. The software to do that costs $3,000 plus a $500/month subscription.
It will go to park, but won't actually be in "park" for a bit. They just wait until they coast down to below 10 mph then slam on the parking pawl and make you eat steering wheel
My 24 expedition slams the electronic parking brake if you going slow and select park. Checked out a 27. It’s even worse. The brake controller is where the shifter was on the 24.
The newer Freightliner Cascadia semis have a dial knob on the steering column for shifting. It looks like something you would use to change the speed of your windshield wipers.
That's such a ridiculous feature. My gfs car has everything on a digital screen besides the shifter knob so just trying to turn on the heat you have to take your eyes off the road. Idk why anyone thought these features were a good idea
same here, parts havent been made since 2011 but im still kicking w her, a base model too so i even have crank windows which is my favorite feature (besides the funky sound system the crackhead owner before me put in, shits boomin when the wiring likes to stay intact)
my car locks from the inside only (outside if have my main key) and the amount of people that get mad at me for reminding them to lock my doors is insane. and then tell me “no ones stealing it anyways”🙄
I can't believe how insane New truck's are and you can't get 8ft beds no more unless it's a dually. I wanted one since outside commercial construction for my day work I do handyman and remodeling work
You can get a Bluetooth head unit installed for a few hundred bucks. I had an aftermarket one installed on our '14 subaru crosstrek because the Bluetooth was just super intermittent and required removing the device and adding it each time you connected. Updated display is nicer, but a different kind of annoyance, but my wife loves it so it was an easy $250 win.
Heck if you have an auxiliary jack you can get these handy little Bluetooth devices that connect to your phone and just play what your phone is playing into the aux jack. They’re like $20-30. I have a couple in mine and my GF’s “classic” 2000s rigs.
My 2018 Ford Focus is still surprisingly pretty basic in terms of technology. One small little reverse camera and a digital dashboard but everything else is still knobs and buttons. Which I’m glad, because I definitely don’t need to re-learn my car just to drive lol
My car has the right balance of new/old tech. Has a 10.25 touchscreen for the infotainment system (with a few performance settings buried in, but you'd dial those in beforehand), while everything else is a tactile knob, switch, or button. It's rad.
There was a streach of a few years about a decade ago that it was a good balance. Looked at new cars for an hour a few months ago and it seemed like such a downgrade.
How hard is it to give an employee a week to build a spreadsheet with the stuff that needs to be physical, the stuff that's perfectly fine digital, and the gradient in-between. Most of the time would be spent on the later. When nearly done bring in the oldest and youngest guy in the building to tweak it. Then when you go to build a budget pickup truck you just click those two boxes and you have your answer, then you work from there. Have a little extra space for buttons? List. Short on space? List. Want to make the dashboard look more minimalist? The spreadsheet sayest no.
Just in time for the law/rules that requires your car to monitor you is supposed to be in full effect. In the name of "safety" all new cars are required to monitor drivers for impairment or distraction by 2027 (or a few years later who knows). So enjoy the experience of your car refusing to start because you seem "impaired" at 7am before your coffee kicks in. Enjoy the experience of your car pulling over because you looked to the side or the car's infotainment screen so the sensors decided you were 'distracted". Enjoy the experience of your car limiting itself to 10 mph because it's determined you need to stop driving and it's giving you a chance to pull over. Enjoy the experience of a single sensor acting up causing the whole system to disable your car. Enjoy the experience of spending thousands to repair/replace said sensor(s). Details are still being determined which will probably result in car makers guessing what will be required in their early implementations.
So while you might get physical buttons back you're also going to have your conversations recorded and parsed. Every movement of you and your passengers monitored. So all those new "safety sensors" will be part of a bigger overal monitoring system for ADs and sold to third parties.
All in the name of "safety" and "convenience".
I can't even imagine what this will do to the already skyrocketing vehicle prices.
Such bullshit. Everyone better buy their cars now before the 2027 models have this mandated shit in it. I predict the used car market is going to explode when people catch on.
I haaaate the “everything on a touch screen” shit so much. It’s literally so dangerous. Can’t do anything without looking directly at it. GIVE ME THE FUCKING BUTTONS so I can WATCH THE DAMN ROAD and use tactile feedback to control the mf car. Absolutely asinine feature.
Noone thought it was a good idea. It's just the cheapest way to get stuff done.
In a modern car you need some kind of screen anyways so why not save money on phisical knobs and all the wiring that comes with it and load all the functionality onto the screen?
No product designer thought "oh yes put features you need while driving into sub menus on this screen right here"
More than likely they were given a list of stuff (which is most of the cars functions) and were told to somehow package all of that into the screen.
The result of which we sadly have to deal with in most modern cars.
Because Volvo is so confident their I-shift works well those are just backup controls. I don't know about this pedicular case but driver reviews are the system works very well and manually using those buttons is never needed. Even with heavy load the system handles the downshifting and engine braking correctly. I suppose this person could be a corner-case where it's needed.
Got picked up in a new mustang on a cool night and the window started fogging. The driver hit the wrong screen button and the heat was blasting, fogging the window more. We were already on the highway and she had to keep looking at that screen, which by then somehow put the heat in the default mode, and keep searching to undo it. So it was nerve wracking for the first part of the drive.
I got a new car recently and the exact same thing happened to me. I ended up pulling over to figure it out. I realized that there are a few buttons for the defrost and stuff and all have individual texture to them, so I no longer have to deal with that struggle lol
These were fitted cause overweight truck drivers were always breaking the selector next to the seat, or being broken getting into the cab even though they folded flat. We kept new shifters as standard breakdown parts cause it was so frequently broken. That dash panel with the buttons can also be moved to anyplace on the dash that accepts that size panel, even overhead. The switches don't need to be where they are in that picture, can be moved easily. They communicate on the trucks CAN system along with the other switch panels. You can move any switch anywhere and the truck knows where it is and what it's for without re wiring.
Sounds about right, our drivers bitch about our company trucks not being nicer, but in my experience they need a durable rubbermaid bin with wheels because they'll literally grind doritos into the floormats.
Using your phone while driving is dangerous. Having to use basically an ipad to go through four menus to turn off the heated seats? Perfectly normal and safe!
"Features" like this probably earn them more money, not just saves it, whether through selling replacement parts or nudging people to upgrade sooner once the buttons start failing. Gotta love planned obsolescence.
Sales people at dealerships, no matter the brand or vehicle type, I've discovered know barely anything about the products they sell.
If you ever want to actually learn about the vehicle you'll only get REAL information from maintenance techs. This does NOT include the maintenance reps (service writers), like the people setting up your maintenance appointment or who run the front desk in the maintenance department they are as bad as sales floor personnel.
Put googly eyes or those silicone nubs to keep speakers off the ground on the buttons, then you can feel for it instead. Cheap option for an annoying problem.
Who makes the software has nothing to do with it. Repairs are being locked behind software by those corporations on purpose. The implementation is the issue. If you want to have to take your truck to the dealer every time and pay through the nose, have fun with that. Just don’t ask me to.
well that makes a lot of sense! I thought this was one of those OEM subscription models, like BMW charging x/month for seat heaters that are already in the car.
charging a subscription for a vehicle to be functional should be illegal. if it's not, they could do the same for steering and breaking and if they don't they are just losing money.
I mean, it‘s not a subscription for the vehicle but for the software. I am completely with you that this should be free but the company charging the subscription here is not the culprit here. The reality what happens here is even worse. The manufacturer restricts these modifications to licensed shops so a third party reverse engineers it and charges this fee for the software.
Over the last three years I’ve driven this truck over a quarter million miles. Countless days spent with nothing but the road and my thoughts, yet I somehow never thought of doing that.
I woke up, posted this just before getting on the road, then drove 6 hours non stop. I’m only just now stopping for my lunch break. Once I’ve eaten and caught up on comments, I’ll be driving another 4 or 5 hours non stop, then dinner and sleep.
With the exception of fueling, loading/unloading, and a couple days off every couple months, that’s my daily life.
We don't have that stuff in Europe, i don't know why the Volvo sold that crap oversees.
It you pull the engine brake lever it will downshift automatically.
Never understood driver's qualms about downshifting the automatic trucks. Slow down to the speed you want and the transmission will hold the gear going downhill. Especially so if you are using the engine brake.
I drive a cascadia (so an actros with a nosejob and without a TRB) for years now, and I don’t trust hill hold descent mode because it’ll take my precious air and overheat my service brakes. I’d rather run the box myself and know deep down I’m only relying on compression release and have nice cool brakes just in case.
I’ve driven a very similar truck to this, and iirc it does. (If it wouldn’t redline the engine).
There’s a lever on the steering column above the wiper stalk that lets you select from levels of engine braking, or automatic engine braking. At level 3 it’s real aggressive
I have seen, well not the stereo-placement thing, but at least push-buttons for the gears in busses here in Sweden. Not only from Volvo but also Scania and Den Oudsten, though they are gone now.
Like this (it has a lever too, maybe for the engine brake, but it has the 1-2-3-D-N-R on the right):
Shifts better than the fuckin Eaton Autoshifts tho doesnt it? This is coming from a mechanic only who has brought dozens of each into the shop. Give volvo/Mack all the shit you want, but that clutch will last 500k mi otr and about 300k vocational. Eatons shift like ass and last maybe 200k
It is, which is why automatic semi trucks aren’t actually automatic but “automated manual”. It has a manual gearbox, but the shift lever / clutch is hidden under the floor. The truck’s computer automatically takes care of shifting and clutching with a set of pistons.
The automated manual is popular in offroad applications such as a mine. You can have a non-CDL person able to drive it and not have to learn how to shift. So they never have to learn things like rev matching. I do think Eaton sells a true automatic version. For long haul, automated manual isn't as popular of an option.
I was going to say, I have seen these push button gear selectors in old 1970s Pacific heavy-haul trucks. It makes the thing buck pretty good when you switch gears, but I guess that makes sense that you could put almost anyone in it.
I don't think there's any actual problem here, just a driver that doesn't bother to learn their truck. Every i shift equipped truck has 3 or 4 different engine brake settings, auto, 1-3, and max brake. If you're concerned about the transmission being in too high of a gear then you need to pull the engine brake lever all the way down until the symbol on the dash flashes 'B' and the transmisison will keep shifting into the lowest gear possible without over speeding the engine. I'd also argue that volvo has one of the strongest engine brakes out there with how they combine the turbo back pressure and use it to build more cylinder pressure when braking.
Okay so it is an automatic, you either put it in manual and pick the gear, or let the trans do its thing. You don't want to put it in manual because it won't shift for you, but you don't want to put it in auto because it doesn't read your mind. It can't go to a lower gear to cruise if you don't tell it to.
Doesn’t the Volvo line also allow paddle shifters to be added? That could give you better tactile control without compromising the passage into the sleeper.
It doesn't downshift automatically when you apply the engine brake? That's weird - all the European Volvos do. I'd put it in the workshop for that. Might be a fault with the engine brake.
I drove a newer Mack Pinnacle several years ago hauling grain, and this is the same setup it had for the transmission.
To be 100% fair though, I didn’t mind the transmission. Never had to intervene and downshift myself. The system was actually pretty competent in downshifting on its own whenever I felt the need to drop a gear or two. It’d do it on its own basically right after the thought passed my mind
Wow that's horrible. Volvo NA quality is so much worse than Volvo Europe. Shouldn't the computer automatically downshift when you use the engine brake?
This is weird. In Europe Volvo uses the same shifter in every truck. It's weird that they didn't use them in this generation VNL. I'm not sure if the new one is the same.
The name is pretty much the only thing in common with the European ones. It's just a cheaply made, overpriced, generic truck they slapped a volvo badge on
The engine and transmission is pretty much the same as the European ones, and the VNL has bespoke engineering and isn't based on any other truck. Not sure why you think it's a generic truck with a Volvo badge on it, because that's just a straight up lie?
I have the same transmission just with no manual buttons. Just throw it into max engine brake and lock it into whatever gear it downshifts to. Volvo/Mack had the best auto for semis, so I’d rather live with the weird shifter position.
You shouldn't need to downshift for hills in an automatic. Just let the engine brakes do their thing with only slight input here and there on the brakes. You can further get what you want by dropping throttle just before you go over the hill to trick the system into thinking you're slowing down and downshift. I don't know about Volvo but Kenworth will automatically keep you from coasting over 70mph.
Volvo originally trusted their auto so well they didn't think drivers would want to override gears. They've took the feedback and reverted this design on their new trucks.
When I drove truck these were the European models of transmissions they used this system the ones built out of NA were made with a dumb ass shifter next to the seat, you get used to this a lot easier and it isn’t in the way when you go to get in the back of the cab
Hey that’s like my 2026 Nissan Leaf! Except it doesn’t have a bunch of other buttons right next to them, and I don’t have to worry about downshifting and such. I quite like it, it’s very simple to just press a button!
NA trucks has nothing on EU ones. NA lives in the past, not even close. Check Bruce Wilson on YT if you wanna see his tour in America with a brand new Scania
Just be glad you have the option to select youe gear. I worked for an all Mack fleet for the last cluple years and all our transmission bitton panels were the economy ones you could only lock it into a gear with.
Heavy duty trucks don't have a "park" they use air brakes that are locked by default and have to be actively held open. So just neutral and parking brake
That's why I prefer a manual truck.
Additionally, because it's an i-shift (Volvo), if it ever has to be towed from the front, the towing company will upcharge because the driveshaft HAS to be removed or alternatively all 4 axles HAVE to be removed before moving an inch.
Otherwise it breaks a pin in the transmission, destroying the transmission internally beyond repair.
With a manual, if not going far, a tow truck can just put the transmission into the high side and go.
If any tow truck company worth there weight pulled a unit with the drive tires on the ground without disconnecting the drive shaft or pulling axles should be disowned.
Don't matter the distance, don't pull transmissions from the input shaft.
Had a semi at our work (an international) that was the same. Hated yard-dogging it in the winter. Had no power, plus it was beat to high hell because all of our new drivers started in it before they got upgraded to a Pete.
Our RV has the shifter on a stalk on the right side of the steering column. It is a very frustrating design and took a long time to remember that it isn’t the wiper control.
Seriously? Thats crazy. I know some vehicles that had largely screen based have since reverted to physical controls for some key things like heat / AC. What an odd thing to need the touch screen for.
Doesn't it have the shift button on the throttle pedal. All the Mack/Volvo auto shifts Ive driven have had it. Basically push the pedal past 100% throttle and it gives way and tells the truck to downshift. Dropping 3 gears in one shot goes from lugging the engine to over revving real fast
I also drive a 24 VNL, but i have the PRNDL which is inconveniently located near the seatbelt buckle. I trip on it all the time and sometimes I wish I had the radio shifter
I know on an automatic Mack (which is owned and manufactured by Volvo) you can push the Jake brake lever down while it's still on the high position to make the truck downshift while engine braking simultaneously, try that instead of downshifting on the gear select pad.
I worked at a distribution center and had to move the trucks around sometimes. First time I got in one of the automatics it took me a couple of minutes to figure out how to even get the thing in drive lol
My second comment, I'm a PACCAR fan. Volvo maintenance is frequent and expensive in my experience. The trucks are nice and roomy, but I think the maintenance is a big downside.
In theory I agree but with them locking down their ecu behind not only propriety software but having to run it through their servers is a big no go for me im leaning towards freighter for their warrenty network and because alll I need is pirated software to get into my ecu
800,000 mile volvo at work is rock solid. 300,000 mile international is a rattletrap that’s almost unfixable. Brand new KW T680’s are losing air and having constant regen issues.
I do work at Paccar. Don't drive truck though, can't say what's best for drivers, but if you're just wondering "who likes Paccar?"
Paccar is the #1 truck by market share for Canada, and Australia, and only #2 in America by like 2% behind freightliner.
It's also #2 in Europe, but farther behind Volvo (20% v. 14%)
So....a lot of people.
And although I'm clearly kinda biased, (don't make commission though personally idgaf what you buy or like, you do you, and buy what you want)
But statistically it's pretty unsurprising.
Paccar engines have some of the longest B-ratings of any engine, B10 at 1mil, meaning ~10% of Paccar engines will require a major rebuild before 1mil miles.
For reference Detroit's engines, the DD13,15,&16's are B50 at 1mil. So 50% of their engines will require a rebuild.
And CAT is like B80 by 1mil
Paccar engines also, statistically, have the most uptime of any engine.
I hear semi truck guys talking about how MX-13's are always having problems.
But statistically it's the exact opposite. Paccar engines stay up, and on the road, by statistical tracking, more than any other engine.
Guys hate them, I hear they're awful to drive because they're gutless. I'm guessing because they're a 13L instead of a 15L (although I hear they're designing a 15L version currently)
But the numbers say, if you want to make money while driving, then a Paccar is what you want to drive. 🤷♂️
Where does International rank in this? I'm genuinely curious.
Do you think the reliability is due to a detuned engine, but the detuning leads to longevity? Maybe that's why drivers complain about them being gutless? In general, higher power engines seem to wear out faster, but we all know that isn't always true. I'm genuinely asking these questions because I don't know.
The smaller ones are terrible, the Maxxforce 7 literally only rates to 500'000 miles, (B50 at 500'000) they don't even expect it to live to 1mil.
But the larger ones at 11-13L are slightly better than Detroit's, most years of it sit around B30-B40 at 1mil
I can't say for absolute certain what causes the reliability difference. Only my opinion.
But as for my opinion, it's for a lot of reasons, among them:
The MX-13 was designed from the ground up to be what it is. It hasn't been retrofitted, and tweaked, and changed countless times like say, the Cummins. Where the ISX15 came out like 30yrs ago, and they just keep slapping new things on it, and slightly tweaking it for the new EPA needs and such. The original ISX was never even designed with aftertreatment originally involved. It was added on. All those changes add up over time to efficiency and reliability losses.
As well large differences in the materials, the MX-13 makes use of materials like having a compressed graphite block, allowing for much better heat dissipation, and lack of wear. Something that, when most other engines were designed, was basically unheard of outside of F1 engines. but is very common in the light duty world now, and has become very common because of how well it works.
The MX13 engine is also designed fundamentally differently. for example if you need to shim a Cummins, you just buy a shim and drop it down in there before you drop in your liner. But in an MX, you have to literally buy different liners, no shim. Which is inconvenient for rebuilds, but is a significant boon to longevity. It's a worthwhile tradeoff IMO, because since you're cutting less often, it pays for itself.
There's plenty more small reasons, but that's kinda the overview of the design philosophy differences.
As for detuned engine, yeah, it probably has something to do with it.
The MX-13 is designed to be a lower power engine, that uses less fuel, with the idea that you need to shift earlier, and more often.
So it drives noticeably differently than any othe engine in the north American market.
I'm not a driver, so I'm just talking out of my ass here, but personally I think a lot of drivers hate it because instead of learning to drive the equipment how its meant to be driven, they expect the vehicle to drive the way they already know how to drive.
Higher horsepower engines help cover up the deficiencies of a driver that doesn't actually know how/when to shift.
Didnt you see or knew this when you bought that thing? You could have avoided this by paying better attention to details like this and buying an other truck?
Maybe I’m stupid but is it possible to test drive these thing so you can find out stupid stuff like this? Even if its only 1 mile or something?
Why is it in a different county? You should have flappy paddles on the steering wheel of that's where they're putting the transmission selector. Obviously designed and implemented by someone who doesn't drive or certainly doesn't haul anything?
Buttons for each gear in an automatic is the most simple and makes the most sense imo. You don’t need a shifter for that and every car maker wants to design their own knob or dial to change drive modes, the button is simple. I wish more cars did this.
Yes, I’m sitting in the driver’s seat of my class 8 long haul semi truck right now. When I was a company driver, they had me in a freightliner with a lever on the steering wheel for a shifter.
Under normal circumstances, you’re not actually going to be using those buttons beyond putting it in drive and putting it in neutral. My company doesn’t even option the system with the gear select buttons. You can force the truck to downshift without even touching those buttons by putting the engine brake lever at the maximum brake setting. So everything he’s trying to do can actually be done without having the buttons at all.
Worst part about the Volvo VNL and Mack Anthems. I think the newest generation of VNL has stalk gear select option on Eaton, Allison and inhouse tans if I'm not mistaken. I haven't driven one of the new ones so Idk for sure.
As far as fleet OTR trucks go, You can't convince to move away from the Cascadia. Simple, not suoer comfortable ride, but it's easy to drive, comfy enough, has basically infinite storage space (my last time out, I basically had a whole closet as a clothing closet), has inverter hookups already set up, making installation super simple, the factory fridge (if you option it with one is the best one I've seen in a semi, the mounting place for your own is exceptional, the sliding tray actually works (Volvo's, Inter's, Ken/Pete's all break or get stuck), and the Cascadia handles adverse conditions far, far, far better than any of the others. I drove one through straight up mid with a light load on and had bo trouble. International would have gotten me stuck and gotten me a preventable.
Cascadia is the answer in trucking, the way Miata is the answer in sportscars.
Pretty much all truck manufacturers are being pushed into designing their own automatics these days.
Volvo, Paccar, & Mack all have their own, in-house, purpose built automatics now. (and I'm sure more. Those are just the ones I know of without googling it)
Although I think the I-shift might be volvos automated transmission, not its automatic?
Correct, the I-Shift is Volvo in house transmission design. I’ve had my fair share of dealings with them and I can say they are a stout piece of engineering.
Eaton hasn’t produced a good transmission since the 13 speed manual. The 7 speed procisions were the worst of the worst. I remember the replacement campaign on those. They were easy to change but it was not fun dealing with 5 replacements every week
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u/Lazzyie 1d ago
Semi version of the gear select dial next to the volume dial.