r/azerbaijan • u/Reasonable-Oil6514 • 16h ago
Söhbət | Discussion Honestly, stop the BS
I swear, some of these Turkish people and the crowd that blames everything on Jews don’t know Azerbaijan at all, yet they talk with such confidence, as if they do. We kept saying this isn’t the first time. In the 2010s, there was a hijab ban in schools, mass Ashura gatherings were banned, the volume of the Adzan in mosques was reduced, and the crackdown was even harsher than anything now. Back then, there were actually more religious people than there are nowadays, Salafis, Wahhabis, pro-Iranian Shias, and women walking around in chadras, especially in the Yasamal/Kubinka/Nizami areas and on the outskirts of Baku. But social media wasn’t a thing like it is nowadays, so there wasn’t much fuss, so yeah. Since then, Azerbaijan has secularized rapidly. I mean, the population was always mostly irreligious, but these people are gone too. The mosques are empty, and there aren’t “Quran courses” and “Arabic language courses” on every other corner like there used to be. I doubt anyone who can’t analyze this even lives in Baku or old enough to observe these events lmao.
Yet now they come and explain the country to those of us who were around for those events, who heard with our own ears what was being said in those circles and saw it with our own eyes. In recent years (or shall I say after Khamenei's death?) these people have started growing again, which is very strange and should raise a lot of questions for fellow Azerbaijanis too. Aliyev is indeed an authoritarian, but how ignorant do you have to be to brush off every conversation with “he’s paranoid” or “he’s going crazy”? This negligence is our biggest problem.
Just food for thought below.
7
u/2sexy_4myshirt Abşeron 🇦🇿 12h ago
as somebody who has lived through those periods i agree. there was a rapid rise in women wearing hjiab in the 2000s and early 10s but it has since plateaud basically (in the 90s if you saw one woman with hijab in a bus or something everybody would stare that them like they are from a different planet). These crackdowns are soft and Aliyev can very easily raise the ante. He is just slow playing the cards. We probably want something from Turkey and they making this play.
10
u/Comfortable-Elk67 14h ago edited 13h ago
During the Karabakh war, Erdoğan stood firmly beside Azerbaijan. Turkiye and Azerbaijan presented themselves as brotherly nations, and the solidarity between the two peoples was visible everywhere. I remember the Turkish and Azerbaijani flags being waved side by side during the war, and Erdoğan was immensely popular among Azerbaijan Turks.
But now that the Karabakh conflict has been resolved and Russia and Iran are constrained, the relationship seems to be changing. In my view, the Azerbaijani leadership may now perceive the growing closeness between Turkiye and Azerbaijan as a potential long-term threat to its own political position and influence.
I have not seen Turkish officials conducting an anti-Azerbaijani campaign or making statements hostile toward Azerbaijan. Yet Azerbaijan state television has deliberately promoted the claim that there is a AKP state-sponsored anti-Azerbaijani propaganda campaign in Turkiye, despite there being no convincing evidence of such a campaign. That is deeply troubling.
There are also contradictions that are difficult to ignore. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus remains internationally unrecognized. Also Azerbaijan maintains close relations with Israel, even as Israel openly regards Turkiye as a major adversary and has strategic interests that directly affect Turkiye security environment.
So who is actually acting in bad faith here?
To me, this is simply unethical and represents one of the lowest forms of politics, deliberately turning peoples who once considered themselves brothers against one another for political advantage.
What shocked me most was seeing some Azerbaijani Turks on social media seemingly make a complete U-turn embracing Israel while suddenly insulting Anatolian Turks and calling them “Arabs.” This is particularly striking when you remember the extraordinary sense of brotherhood and solidarity between Anatolian and Azerbaijan Turks.
10
u/JustSefa_ 14h ago
What shocked me most was seeing some Azerbaijani Turks on social media seemingly make a complete U-turn
Social media never reflects public opinion, as the loudest people usually have radical/extreme views. + Lots of larpers. It isnt any different on reddit. You get the opinion of a portion of the public, not the public in general. Especially with respect to english speaking turks from the middle east, as more educated people tend to have more loaded parents, which in turn tend to be from a specific social class with specific views.
2
u/RedPowerSupreme 6h ago
They are manipulated by white supremacists and zionists, just like ukraine. See how it turned out.
0
u/Extension-Pen1995 11h ago
Not only Turkey But the so called Jihadist FIghters of Syria were used as Frontline Suicide Fighters in 2020 war, I remember Hearing Azaan from Mosque to lift Spirit and do Jihad,nowwe got territory back Real face starts coming out, Everyone will see Hereafter, Blood of Azeri Martyrs will not be in Vain
-2
12h ago
[deleted]
4
u/ClientMany300 9h ago
That’s not what secular or developed means.
Best regards
Someone from an actual secular and developed country
11
u/SyrupMediocre9968 16h ago
meşə qardaşları, şimaldakı vahabilər, nardaran. ölkə həmişə bu radikallara qarşı mübarizə aparıb həmişə də qalib gəlib.
7
u/Alimipac 12h ago
Why unnecessary issues like headscarf bringing up to surface in Azerbaijan? Why now? Why Aliyev making insinuations in his talks? The real issue is not headscarf. Jews playing mind games along the regions of Cyprus, Greece, Iran, Azerbaijan etc. Jewish cliques finds ways to undermine Azerbaijan-Turkiye relations. Israel/Greece/Cyprus making preparations for Turkiye, the smell of war in the air, Turks sense this. And what heartbreaking is Azerbaijan seems to choosing to side with Israel against Turkiye. Thats whats happening.
1
u/Fungiblewatch 9h ago
Yeah it’s weird Muslims who make up most of Azerbaijan’s population aren’t allowed to wear hijab or religious symbols in government-funded schools but Jews get their own government-funded schools where they can wear whatever religious symbols they want (like kippas and Star of David and whatnot).
3
u/Think_Chemistry5453 6h ago
Mate, this covers only governmental schools. Make a distinction between two.
-1
u/Fungiblewatch 6h ago
I’d make a distinction if the Jewish schools were private, but they’re actually funded by Azerbaijani taxpayers.
Well I guess they’re private in the sense only Jews are allowed.
So I guess to be fair, Azerbaijan should fund Muslim-only schools so Muslims can wear whatever they want there.
2
4
u/Upbeat_Section5189 10h ago
Anatolian Turkish here.
I believe Aliyev’s statements. Azerbaijan paid for all the help they got during war. Given the political conditions of the time, I don't think any country other than Türkiye would have come to the help, even if Azerbaijan had paid for it. After all, the Armenian diaspora is powerful in the West. But anyway, the money was paid and the service was rendered—that part is settled.
Erdogan loves money, too. There is no problem with that at all. He both got his money and generated publicity.
The point I don't understand is that Erdoğan has been the same for 25 years. His political and religious views are well-known. If you appear in the same photo with this man, cultivate a good relationship, and call each other brothers, it is assumed that you support him as well.
That leaves two possibilities. Either Azerbaijan, realizing that no one other than Türkiye would come to its aid under those political circumstances, "ayıya dayı dedi'"—to use the Turkish expression.
Or perhaps Aliyev is pursuing other political calculations and paving the way to turn towards Israel and distance himself from Türkiye. Because all this headscarf thing does not make sense at all.
1
-1
u/Dramatic_Bed9236 9h ago
you think hijab ban is something “secular”, “developed” when you’re backward and fascist. going through the same exact thing turkey been through between 70s-90s, and it’s gonna explode in your hands just like it did here.
niqab, burqa ban, hijab ban for children in certain ages is definitely understandable. imprisoning a religious woman to housework because she can’t wear hijab to school or work is fascism.
-3
u/JustSefa_ 16h ago
some of these Turkish people and the crowd that blames everything on Jews don’t know Azerbaijan at all
I dont get your point. You say this and then show a post from a Persian and an Azerbaijani.
Aliyev is indeed an authoritarian, but how ignorant do you have to be to brush off every conversation with “he’s paranoid” or “he’s going crazy”? This negligence is our biggest problem.
I dont get your point here either. We (Turkey) went through multiple radicals, hence we have first hand experience. Hence people are talking. No one is claiming to know the situation of Azerbaijan in detail, but a headscarf-ban is not "paying attention" to anything. You are further increasing resonance with radical views. Not diminishing/controlling them.
How would that even work? Often these radical people are against the education of their daughters anyways, as they get more control over them. You are just playing into the hands of these people. What is that gonna do?
Heck you can forget Turkey, the entire European continent went through this in multiple occations and the big conclusion is: dont be a dick about everyday religious practicies, as long as they dont harm "you".
It is crazy to ignore history, the repetition of the same false actions and the expectation of a different result. Fullstop. Your secularisation happened despite the wrong actions done by your government in the past. Not because of it.
0
u/cinelinger 15h ago
"Heck you can forget Turkey, the entire European continent went through this in multiple occations and the big conclusion is: dont be a dick about everyday religious practicies, as long as they dont harm "you"."
Yeah if you don't fight against radicalism, you will end up like liberal europe, great point.
2
u/JustSefa_ 15h ago
No one says "dont fight radicals". The argument at hand is that baning headscarf is not fighting anything and has a contrary effect.
you will end up like liberal europe, great point.
Clearly Azerbaijan is a much better place to live. What is even your point?
0
14h ago
[deleted]
1
u/vodkasucker 11h ago
You sound like a 14 year old edgy boy with zero understanding of sociology.
Education increases secularisation Oppression increases radicalisation
That simple.
0
u/Hungry-Specific5600 10h ago
Bir iki soysuz türk düşmanının dediğine bakmayın, alınan karar gayet doğru ve yerindeydi. Bizim geldiğimiz hale bakıp bunu rahatlıkla görebilirsiniz.
1
u/Dramatic_Bed9236 9h ago
Türkiye 25 yıl önce olduğundan bin kat daha seküler. Sadece beyaz türkler kendi bubble’larının içinde yaşamıyor artık.
-2
-1
u/RedPowerSupreme 6h ago
It's not about Turkish people. Islam is a culture of a lot people in muslim majority countries. Their roots so to speak. You cannot ban this. Banning this is just shows you work for white supremacists. Im against hijab for kids too but because their parents mistake why you punish the kids? You should've accept the kid no matter what and teach them they can take it out in future if they feel like it.
17
u/lastanimal-intheship 16h ago
I think this is a "two things can be true at the same time" kind of situation. I agree with what you say. There was this guy, the smartest person I have ever met. He was a surgeon, handsome, and all that. He was also religious. The next time we met at an event, he was so gloomy that I was very worried, he would question why I was wearing bright colors while knowing that some general had died in Iran (one I do not even remember now, lol). I was so confused; he mourned for months and kept talking about that general. I think it was the first time that I felt what "İran dindarları" means firsthand. Because maybe I can understand your love for some religious figures, but a general of some country? It does not make sense.
But at the same time, making teachers choose between their bread, money, job, and their hijab is cruel. No one can say that it is right or okay. For a person who has worn a hijab for 10, 20, or 30 years, not wearing it is equivalent to not wearing pants and underwear to the job. Should I be worried that if something happens tomorrow and the government decides that everyone should choose between their jobs or their pants, I will choose my job and put my pants aside because I need to buy something to eat the next day?