Marines are in a weird place

[u/Impboy83]

Played a few battles with the new Marines and they play weird. The extra thoughness doesnt seem to matter much, they die just as fast as before. Lack of ignore cover makes them hit on 4+ on average. Played a game vs orks and they even shoot more and better then marines...orks shoot better then marines, how weird is that.

Im still looking for tactics that work, but overal Marines feel pretty weak. Im a missing someting? There are some strong combos, but cost alot of points. And when you fail to kill something the unit always dies in return.

[u/corporalcasualty]

A huge chunk of the power shifted from the detachments and army rule to the datasheets, and if you're mostly running Tacticus marines it can hurt. I think Tacticus going to T5 doesn't matter much atm as a lot of lists are kinda avoiding them except a few like Bladeguard. They're not even really bad, just kinda overshadowed. Everyth gun except three ranged profiles getting at least AP -1 is the bigger deal, along with termis getting bumped to T6.

The new codex pretty much demands you build into the datasheet roles, and while our buff pieces aren't quite as strong as they were they're really impactful. In my game yesterday, an invictor with ignore cover from a phobos librarian and reroll 1s from incursors killed 18 Ork boz and moved back into cover after shooting with Phobos Shadow Force.

The power is definitely there, it's just gonna take time to figure out the best ways to use it.