Marines are in a weird place

[u/Impboy83]

Played a few battles with the new Marines and they play weird. The extra thoughness doesnt seem to matter much, they die just as fast as before. Lack of ignore cover makes them hit on 4+ on average. Played a game vs orks and they even shoot more and better then marines...orks shoot better then marines, how weird is that.

Im still looking for tactics that work, but overal Marines feel pretty weak. Im a missing someting? There are some strong combos, but cost alot of points. And when you fail to kill something the unit always dies in return.

[u/Another_Guy_In_Ohio]

Almost all my games since the codex have been against other marine armies(and the new Custodes which obviously they don’t feel tough against them).

I think you’re probably feeling the lack of Oath more than anything else. Orks don’t really shoot better as they’re hitting on 5’s or 6’s for the most part, with a little more volume. I also play Salamanders, so the “hitting on 4’s” I haven’t felt much because Eradicators hit on 2’s into vehicles, and I have infernus marines to strip cover for my non-torrent weapons anyway.

With the defensive Gravis detachment, my Gravis troops are much tougher to dislodge. Terminators also feel tougher with the T6, especially against Bladeguard now, which struggle to wound them.

I think there’s so much flexibility with the datasheets and detachments that it’s hard to find a really big weakness. My Salamanders list went up by 100 points, had to cut a unit and an enhancement and that’s it. I’m not really playing with a lot less models on the board

[u/Impboy83 → u/Another_Guy_In_Ohio]

Orks shooty units hit on 4+ with ignore cover and option to get +1 to hit aswell. The moment you are in the open you take a lot of hits. Tankbustas, gunrig, killakans, nazdrag, shooty enhancment all hit on 4+ and mostly ignore cover, shoot alot, high str/ap/dam. You can tank some, but with that much soothing... its rough

[u/Carl_Bar99 → u/Impboy83]

Ok one thing to say, 99% of the time your units should be receiving cover, steping out into the open should never be a thing you do unless your willing to have the unit die next turn, and even then it should be avoided wherever possibble because it makes the opponent commit more to killing you.

[u/Impboy83 → u/Carl_Bar99]

I agree. But at a certain point you cant avoid it anymore, sooner or later you will get shot. Orks have lots of units to, so even if you would evade an shooty unit an other pops up.