(Hated)changing somenthing to be more "progressive" ends up being a bad thing

[u/Morr4Seiya]

Now to be clear,i am not one of these "anti-woke" losers that complain some people exist,and i am also not the type to complain about changing somenthing in a new version or adaptation,however there are cases where it did ended up being a bad idea.

-In the anime of Cowboy Bebop there is the character Gren,despite being short lived the character is very memorable specially thanks to his tragic story.Basically his story was that he was a soldier from the titan war who was a great friend with Vicious(the main bad guy)after the war he was emprisioned thanks to Vicious who testified against him and he was forced to take a experimental drug that caused him hormonal problems,giving him a feminine appearence and even breasts.

In the Netflix live action,for some reasons they decided Gren was going to be non-binary,which wouldn't be a problem(some people believe he was gay in the anime)if it wasn't for the fact that they also removed all the nuances and complexities that made the character memorable and interesting,instead of a tragic war veteran that was betrayed and had his body changed against his will,Gren is just kinda there.

-The original Rugrats cartoon had the couple Betty and Howard,Betty was a big and masculine woman while Howard was a smaller and nervous man,it was a genuine interesting relationship that stood out from the other couples who were the standard straight couple.

In the new series however they replaced Howard with a woman named Trish,two things,first off why?What was the problem with having a woman being the stronger in a straight relationship?Second why does Hollywood seem to think that every tomboy or masculine woman is a lesbian?

Overall not the worst thing but it is jarring that they had a gender reverse roled that was progressive and decided that wasn't enough.

-Oh man,this one pisses me off the most so i am gonna have to break it down

So back in the late 80s and 90s there was this anime called Saint Seiya also knows as Knights of the zodiac,it tells the story of knights who fight for the Goddess Athena to protect earth,being divided in the golden,silver and bronze knights,the anime was a huge hit in latin america and Europe and while it floped in the US it still has a loyal fanbase.

Being a fan myself i can't recommend it enough,now granted the story does have a fair share of flaws,and that's because the author was honestly just making stuff up as he went along(also a lot of side characters are poorly used or even forgotten about)still it is a great story you should check out

But then a couple of years back Netflix got the rights and decided to a 3D reboot,in this reboot they decided to make the story more "american" to try to bring more american viewers,now i could go on and on a big rant about how that was a bad idea and the execution was so terrible that it made me want to strangle someone but this post is about one specific change.

So Saint Seiya has five main characters,those are Pegasus Seiya,Dragon Shiryu,Cygnus Hyoga,Phoenix Ikki and finally Andromeda Shun.

While the other four characters were the standard masculine and brute male characters who were always ready to throw punches,Shun was smaller,more sensitive and even feminine looking,a pacifist who didn't liked fighting,but don't mistake that for weakness because Shun was loyal to his friends and was extremely powerful.

Then Netflix decided to change Shun into a girl named Shaun.

So wait,you have a male character who goes against every male stereotype and you turn him into just another generic female character?

When asked about it,the showrunner Eugene Son said he made that change because there was no girl in the group and having a all boys group wouldn't be acceptable nowadays

First off that's not true because Athena was also part of the main cast,yeah she wasn't the fighting type but she still helped quite a lot in the story even saving the knights on several occasions,second if you wanted to add a girl to the main group why not use Marin or Shaina?Hell,if you were going to change the story anyway why not turn Seiya sister into a knight?

Thankfully this monstrosity was cancelled(so much for trying to bring more fans)

[u/MrSnippets]

In the original Avatar Animation, Sokka was a sexist douchebag when you meet him. But he learns and grows beyond his childish viewpoints.

In the Netflix adaptation, Sokka isn‘t sexist to begin with, robbing him of an essential part of his character development.

[u/abadstrategy → u/MrSnippets]

Why can't we let characters be problematic anymore? Let em be bags of dicks, and learn to be better! Sokka was awesome specifically because he stuck out and grew

[u/Trident_True → u/abadstrategy]

The most recent Dragon Age was just a bunch of people that should theoretically hate each other all getting along like it's no big deal. So unbelievably boring.

[u/KingCuerno → u/Trident_True]

Made me miss Dragon Age 2, some of the party members outright hated each other.

[u/trimble197 → u/KingCuerno]

Even Dragon Age Origins. Allistair and Morrigan were constantly bickering at each other

[u/Altruistic_Ninja_148 → u/trimble197]

Yeah, I know some people saw that and thought Alistair and Morrigan were like that because they were attracted to each other or something. Nah, those two hated each other.

[u/TerranImperium → u/Altruistic_Ninja_148]

They do genuinely just dislike each other but they bond over the course of the game.

The idea of a ship between the two is not entirely baseless. That said, you can't change Morrigan at her core. She's quite a selfish person.

[u/trimble197 → u/TerranImperium]

I love how much of a contradiction Morrigan is. She’s selfish and acts cold, but she does love her mother and respects you if you respect her back. Then there’s her romance where she absolutely doesn’t want to lose you.

[u/FlakyRazzmatazz5 → u/Altruistic_Ninja_148]

We all know the only man for Morrigan is the male Warden.

[u/Trident_True → u/trimble197]

"swooping is bad"

[u/Trident_True → u/KingCuerno]

DA2 had it's flaws but the characters were excellent. I loved that you could max out their relationship with either friendship or rivalry, especially Fenris and Carver.

Everyone hated Anders quite understandably too.

[u/Penakoto → u/Trident_True]

The friendship / rivalry system was brilliant, and I mourn the fact that because it was introduced in such an unpopular game, it's never going to adopted by other games.

It's my personal "Nemesis System", ie a mechanic so cool that it's a huge shame that nobody else can/will use it.

[u/Trident_True → u/Penakoto]

Agreed wholeheartedly. Thought BG3 might have gone that route but it's just approval and disapproval.

[u/National_Smell_5565 → u/Penakoto]

Oh, it was adopted in Tyranny! And i think i saw another one rpg with that sysptem, but i couldn't remember.

[u/Responsible_Mail_113 → u/Trident_True]

Mass Effect 2 had a few character interactions like this too, especially Miranda-Jack and Tali-Legion. Which also lead into OP's Sokka example of giving the characters room to grow and better themselves with your help as seen in Mass Effect 3 with Tali breaking down over Legion's sacrifice and Miranda and Jack bantering with each other at the Citadel party.

[u/Trident_True → u/Responsible_Mail_113]

Good grief the Tali-Legion quest ending had me bawling my eyes out. Must play that again.

[u/Consistent_Boss_9397 → u/Trident_True]

The only thing I didn't like about Mass Effect 3 was that the Geth reverted to a hive mind, whereas in Mass Effect 2 it was the opposite.

[u/Trident_True → u/Consistent_Boss_9397]

ME3 has some questionable story indeed. You could sense the quality had dipped since the 2nd one. I still love the series though and it is probably still my all time favourite. Shame what has happened to Bioware.

[u/FlakyRazzmatazz5 → u/KingCuerno]

I think the companion peaked with Origins.

[u/LichQueenBarbie → u/Trident_True]

And the serious dialogue options don't feel serious, and Rook still had that dumb fucking smirk on their face. Ugh.

[u/omyomo → u/LichQueenBarbie]

According to some of the community ambassadors who playtested during development, Rook used to be outright insufferable before being turned into an HR representative

[u/Trident_True → u/LichQueenBarbie]

Every dialogue has to have some marvel-esque sarcastic quip. Fucking abysmal writing.

[u/AGuyWithTrouble → u/Trident_True]

It's such a gutless game. The elven gods are real and about, and this basically gets no real discussion, far as I know. Ain't gonna talk about whole cultures and religions based around very real and monstrous beings, no sir. That could be problematic.

Like, Inquisition had MANY problems, but the scene of Sera being scared at the thought of her religion being ACTUALLY real, alone, seems to beat the writing of the whole game.

[u/Trident_True → u/AGuyWithTrouble]

Inquisition felt like it had a whole writing team so even if 1 part was badly written the rest made up for it. Veilguard felt like it was written by a single person who was never told their ideas were shit.

I don't even know how you can work on something for years and nobody asks why it's bad? Did the staff just not talk to each other or something?

Like end of Inquisition Dorian goes off to try and end slavery and then in Veilguard his fringe political group have apparently made 0 progress. Also the Venatori have come back from literal annihilation somehow. Like what was the point of the entire previous game then? Infuriating.

[u/trimble197 → u/Trident_True]

Especially when Taash was bullying Emmerich. When you call them out and tell them that you had expected for them to act like adults and stop arguing, they get mad at you because you didn’t do anything.

[u/omyomo → u/trimble197]

Taash in general felt like a swing and a miss. They're a professional dragon hunter, but with the exception of one mission where they act competent, they come off like a petulant teenager. They're a nonbinary second generation immigrant whose literal first words to you are "you don't get to decide who I am," only for their arc to culminate in you picking one of two options for them to be.

[u/trimble197 → u/omyomo]

That’s what was so infuriating. Taash acts like an actual child despite supposedly being in their 20s.

[u/ubersoldat13 → u/trimble197]

Taash bullying Emmerich seemed like a decent setup for some character growth that was completely missed.

Taash says they're NB and requests the party use certain pronouns and respect her chosen identity, which the party does. Then they bully Emmerich, addressing him by names like "Death Mage" and "skull-fucker" and refuses to call him by his name when Emmerich specifically asks them to.

Like, the opportunity is right there, but it doesn't get addressed. You cant call them out on it. So Taash comes across as having zero self reflection, and being an asshat of a character.

[u/trimble197 → u/ubersoldat13]

That shit pissed me off so much. I don’t normally like kicking party members put, but Taash was really making me wish it was an option.