Im not super happy with it (the art lol), honestly

Earlier there was a post of how some trans gals find The Boy from Venus offensive. And I thought it would be nice to show another point of view.

First of, I dont care if Audry is trans, non binary, or a femboy. Either way his struggles are very relatable, and either way its much needed representation.

In specific I disagree with the notion that Audry is offensive for perfectly passing. Or that he is in some way doing disjustices to the struggles of gender non conforming folks.

For me the whole "not defined by hurt" is clear indication that whatever his gender identity might be, he has faced a lot of hate for it, and are still standing proud of who he is, and a find that amazing and inspiring :)

In specific I very much related with the whole thing of Audry not being able to go to most swimming pools because of the hate comment, and having had to look for a safe one at night with little people in there so they could swim in peace. As trans gal that loves swimming, the struggle is real lol, and finding those safe places is both extremely hard and incredibly rewarding for one's self steem and peace of mind.

So thats it, Shen if you see this, please keep the good work going! Audry is both super relatable and inspiring! <3

Edit: Forgot Audry uses He/Him pronoums. Changing accordingly :)

Officially subbed to his patreon :,D i couldn't resist, i NEED to know what happens next, i need these two scrunklies so badly.

Cats

https://gofund.me/e6a193ca9

Pats

https://patreon.com/SueThecat?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink

Yeah,

I know that some boys can undoubtely look feminine.

But, I mean. This hypothesis would make a lot of sense here.

The fact Audrey is so fem passing without anything else could be easily explained if they were AFAB to begin with.

And the scene in the pool kinda gave me the impression that he did wear his swimsuit not only because he likes feminine stuff, but also because he want to hides his forms.

Hence why I suspect Audrey is transmac at the beginning of his own journey.

Any recommendations for comics similar to The Boy from Venus? I'm pretty new to Web comics but this one is so good!

I completely glossed over this the first time I read the comic, but is Audrey not actually a new hire, like Val assumes?

I thought maybe I was overthinking this at first, but the person Val assumes was replaced by Audrey has the same hair colour and the same starry eyes that Audrey does.

Is it possible that between the summer and when Boy From Venus starts, Audrey grew out his hair and became more comfortable dressing how he wants to? And Val simply didn’t realise that these two people are in fact the same person?

Mods can nuke this post if it doesn't fit in here, I don't know where else to post this. I also want to clarify that I'm a cis man, so my opinion might not even matter here, but I honestly don't care. I really love the comic, so I just wanted to post this thing that's been in my head for a while. I will try to be brief so I don't waste anyone's time.

Basically, I find it sad that I've seen so many people REFUSE to acknowledge Audrey as a man, despite the character defining himself as such multiple times, even going as far as misgendering him on purpose. What the hell happened with the "gender is a spectrum" thing? Is it suddenly okay to misgender someone because you disagree with what they are? I have seen people call Audrey a character who doesn't make sense. What the hell does that mean? This is not me saying that anyone who has a problem with the way Audrey's identity is portrayed is wrong. Like that person who made a 2400-word essay on this topic, they actually made understandable points. They also did something I respected a lot: they never disrespected the character's gender identity while criticizing them. Which I thought was the bare minimum, but apparently it isn't? I'm glad I could get this off my mind, even if I think it's going to get downvoted to hell.

I'm going back to lurking now. Bye everyone, see y'all in the next chapter release.

They're cool visions, I promise.

Program: mspaint :]

Thinking of doing some line art and color

Hello, fans of Shen's comics and whatnot. I know analyses like this are not often very well liked, but I'll seriously ask you to bear with me while I explain why The Boy From Venus does not work down to its very basic concept: "Man-hating femcel grows to change her prejudices by befriending and falling for a GNC man".

Now, all of this is well and good. The idea of the comic can be understood from pretty much the first part. Val hates men, manhood and the general idea of a man, Audrey is a man that breaks from that idea, and so her preconceptions of cis men are broken and her more self destructive behaviours heal. However, there is one important distinction to add:

Aubrey's "breaking of gender norms" is just conforming to a woman's gender norms.

Now, now, put down your torches. I am NOT claiming Audrey is a trans woman right now (that's a different argument for a different post), so listen to what I have to say: Aubrey's life pretty much perfectly conforms to the idea of what a woman should be, and therein lies the problem. He's an extreme exception, the kinds that do not change perceptions of a larger demographic because he's *that* different from the average cis man.

Let's do a thought exercise here. In the very first panels of the comic, do you think ANY of the misogynistic men that Val daily suffers through on comms do any of the following:

• Dress according to feminine fashion
• Have stereotypical "girl" hobbies like shopping
• Constantly pass both physically and through voice as women (Val never assumed Audrey was a man despite hearing his voice a lot)
• Have a female name they keep for themselves as the main way to refer to them
• Have all the typical characteristics of a "manic pixie dream girl"

If you said, "they do not", you're right. In fact, I'd argue there's little, if any cis men you know right now, in real life, that fit the first four bullet points. Not Discord, not specialised twitter femboys, not anime characters. Real life, do you know any man that so dramatically adheres to female gender norms?

I'm not saying this to claim that there are absolutely 150% zero cis men out there that are like Audrey. I'm saying this to emphasise that Audrey is beyond a statistical anomaly and is directly the rare opposite of what being a cis man usually entails.

Now, let's move on as to why Val WILL NOT stop hating men so long as her interest is centered on Audrey. You might raise your hand and say "But, OP, Audrey is the opposite of a cis man, like you said! Shouldn't learning that cis men can act like him fix her hatred of men?"

Nope. It shouldn't. Val's hatred of men seems to come from three things: A general hatred for misogyny, hatred and prejudice towards stereotypical cis men behaviours (she hated the "manly" og clerk despite seemingly being a nice guy from his image, so her distaste extends to general cis men attitudes and looks), and bad experiences from her past. While the first and third aspects are entirely understandable, the second is an unfair prejudice towards men. Even if she hates the bad aspects of male culture, which is valid and agreeable, there are aspects that are simply harmless and should not evoke such intense hatred from her. Ideally, for Val to unlearn that hatred, she'd need to be exposed to a regular cis man, that is different from her expectations of a cis man not in his general manly behaviours but by being openly against misogyny and sympathetic of her past without any ulterior motives. That way, she'd separate the average man from the awful extremes that are harmful.

Audrey is not an average man. Functionally, while he's a cis man, he lives his life as a woman. Audrey's first, and seemingly only friendly interaction with a man is him entirely following the gender norms of a woman. This, does not, work as a way for her to unlearn her hatred of men.

Let's make another example. Let's say, group of people A have ABC traits, while group of people B have XYZ traits. A person in group A scoffs at B, thinking that ABC traits are inherently superior while all XYZ traits are bad. Then, a perfect angel from B arrives. They're different from normal group B people, not because their XYZ traits are actively appealing, but because they exhibit ABC traits. The first person likes this outlier, and so smugly thinks "See? The only good person of group B has ABC traits. ABC traits are superior to XYZ, so group B is worse than group A".

Val should still despise men, and will continue to despise them so long as she hangs out with Audrey. Audrey is the exact opposite of what she thinks a man is, a misogynystic manly asshole, and so she shouldn't associate him with the larger demographic at all. He's "one of the good ones", a man that doesn't act or look or think like what a man "is", but rather how a woman "is". He's not from Mars, he's from Venus, and so all of Mars will continue to be hated, because if a Martian acts and looks like a Venusian, to a hater of Martians it will be just another Venusian.

This was my analysis on why the comic doesn't work. Feel free to counter any of this, I'm actually interested!

program: Kid Pix Deluxe 4 ^__^

this probably makes more sense if ur patron :3c (not sponsored hehehee)

Alright so I've seen a lot of people here ship val and Audry so here's my case for why I'd rather that not happen.

My main point is that Val's and Audrey's relationship, whether romantic or platonic, isn't really (in my eyes) what the comic is *about*. The comic is mainly about the way meeting Audry changes Val, and Val as a person in general. It really does not show a lot of their actual relationship. Every step in their friendship is always about how it affect Val, what she learns from it, not about their relationship as a whole. Notice how the many times that they met where they grew closer but that weren't part of some major change in Val's worldview were skipped over in a montage, and how we've had multiple comics about Val's backstory but only hints at Audrey's.

Tl;dr the comic is really about Val, not about their relationship

My second point, is that falling in love doesn't really feel like something Val would let herself do. I mean obviously she's going to change as a person over the course of the comics, but to the degree that she'd admit it to Audrey, or even to herself? I don't think we're anywhere near that. Also Audrey seems like he wouldn't admit feelings without some pretty heavy-handed hints from Val for fear of making her uncomfortable, but I'm not entirely sure of that.

Tl;dr Val would have to change _a lot_ for that.

My last point is that platonic relationships between straight people of different genders are really underrepresented pretty much everywhere and it would be pretty cool to see one, though that's not really a great reason.

In reality I think Shen will leave the relationship between them ambiguous, but I haven't read enough of his comics to really know

edit: this post assumed that they're both straight (or bi), obviously if they're not then they should stay friends, but the post is about about why even if they're straight they should be platonic, even though they're likely not

"I see an annoying boy running toward me from the distance, waving his arms in the air like he’s totally oblivious to any attention he might draw to himself."

I saw a picture of Sayori from Doki Doki Literature Club and for a split second I thought it was Audrey, so I made this drawing inspired by that.

Hi! My name is Clover and I’ve written this… basically essay (2400 words… holy shit) to help explain the grievances that I and some other trans people have with The Boy from Venus. I hope this is allowed as I feel this is an incredibly important post to make especially with how conversation surrounding The Boy from Venus has evolved. Just to make it clear to people who have poor attention spans:

⚠️ CONTENT WARNING: This post is highly critical of the titular comic and goes into discussion on topics like Transphobia. If you don’t wish to hear, do not read! ⚠️

This post will dive into some of the reasons that The Boy from Venus is disliked by a subset of Trans women including myself and attempt to explain how this comic can (likely unintentionally) spread extremely toxic messaging about Transgender people, women especially, to its majority Cisgender audience.

For the sake of transparency, I myself am a Trans woman who finds the comic to be somewhat questionable and occasionally harmful but made in good faith. I have been a fan of Shen for a good while and find it hard to believe he is outright transphobic, but I still believe it is important to call out problematic behavior where I see it.

Finally, before I start, you do not have to agree with everything I say in this post. Whether you are Cis or Trans, you are free to have your own opinions on the comic and Shen, however, I see a lot of reasons as to why certain Trans people dislike this comic get misunderstood to a degree that I feel makes this post important. I understand that people hold a strong distaste of spaces like 4tran and I personally avoid using them but writing off any criticisms made because you believe that any Trans person who hates the story is just a 4chan user who should be ignored is Transphobic and ignorant.

Now let us begin by first explaining what this post is Not. This post and my criticisms about The Boy from Venus are in no way meant to invalidate or harm GNC Men. This topic can be extremely sensitive and people are quick to jump to “Let Men Be Feminine” as a defense yet that is Not what this post is about. Allow me to repeat that: This post and my criticisms of The Boy from Venus as a whole are in no way meant to invalidate or harm GNC Men. It is also not attempting to defend Gender Essentialism, men can wear dresses and women can wear suits as much as they please. The trans and GNC identities are far more complex than just what clothes someone decides to where. People should be free to conform or differ from gender normative clothing however they please. Trans people do not reinforce Gender Essentialism, GNC people do not reinforce Transphobia. This post is also not an attack on Shen or a post analyzing whether he is Transgender. As I said earlier, I do like Shen. I just feel it is necessary to call out the problematic things he may have included in his work, deliberately or not. This is a criticism on a variety of topics such as Femboy vs. Transgender Representation, How Cisgender People view Transgender People, and Transphobia in Internet Culture and how they all pertain to The Boy from Venus

I have stalled for long enough, it’s time to discuss the real meat and potatoes of the comic’s controversy: Audrey.

Let’s fully explore Audrey’s character in order to understand what the problems trans people may have with him. Audrey is a fully fem-passing person who uses a feminine name, wears feminine clothing, and has a (presumably) fem-passing voice. According to how the story portrays him: “Audrey is a woman, yet he’s actually a man!” Hopefully you can already get an idea as to why some people, people apart of a group who have been told countless times by society that they are merely men pretending to be women, may not be the most receptive to a character like Audrey.

Now I already hear objections so let’s slow down. Audrey is not transgender, that is completely correct, but he is also Not a GNC man. I know that last part may be contentious but The major difference between being Transgender and GNC people is that, at the end of the day, GNC people still wish to continue being their birth gender to at least some degree and it has been shown to us multiple times that Audrey actively prefers being perceived as a woman. Not in that sense that he enjoys being feminine, that is something completely different, but in that he wants to be perceived as a woman but does not view himself as one. So this leads to Audrey being in a completely bizarre situation where she is neither a transgender woman (by admission) nor a genuine depiction of a GNC man (by action). Please stay with me. I swear I will explain.

In this instance, I mean that Audrey is a caricature of a Transgender woman without being a trans woman. Here we have a character who fully passes as a woman and experiences Gender Euphoria/Dysphoria (Enjoys being referred to as a woman, can be inferred that he dislikes presenting as a man), Transphobia (Implied while shopping with Val), and struggles to always express himself in public (Goes to the pool at night) yet he does not believe that he himself is a woman. This is, to put it bluntly, confusing as fuck. Audrey is confirmed to not be transgender but at the same time is not “just” GNC. Instead he occupies a weird middle zone which, while I’m almost certain exists in reality, is likely far different than what Shen intended.

This ties perfectly into the other big issue with Audrey, the fact that he is a sanitization of the experiences faced by Trans people. Now, as of the time of writing, currently The Boy from Venus is on Chapter 14 meaning this is subject to change but, as it stands,

Audrey is a complete spit in the face to the struggles faced by transgender women in order to be more appealing to this comic’s primarily cisgender audience.

I am aware that that is a Loaded statement so I will back it up quickly by going over the issues presented by Audrey in order of appearance.

Firstly, well, Audrey’s appearance itself reads as a bad joke. A surprisingly common trope in media is that of the “Perfect Fem-Passing Femboy” of which Audrey falls into, however, this trope is inherently problematic for a variety of reasons. Primarily and as the focus for this discussion, Audrey has, at least from what we can gather, never used hormones of any kind. This is already a red flag as an AMAB character who is able to fully pass as a woman (at least on the level of Aubrey is drawn. Not denying that some feminine men can look extremely feminine but Aubrey is drawn indistinguishably from a Cis woman) is just complete fiction which is used time and time again not to represent Trans women as beautiful but, instead, to represent femboys who are fully certain in their manhood. Meanwhile most trans women in media are specifically designed to look “clocky” (for those unaware: that is when a trans person who does not pass as cisgender), far more than typical “femboy” characters, in order to reinforce the Transphobic ideals held by a large majority of Cis people, the “We Can Always Tell” crowd.

This is Extremely dangerous as it can easily be interpreted as a way of showing trans people that “see, hormones aren’t necessary! you can pass perfectly without them!” which is just not reality. By showing perfectly feminine men and “clocky” trans women in media, it can greatly diminish the importance of hormones to a large portion the transgender population. Now, it obviously isn’t Shen’s fault that good transgender representation, however, it is still an incredibly important thing to understand when trying to figure out why people may have issues with this comic

To be clear, hormones are an individual choice and there is no medical requirement to be trans, but many trans people benefit greatly from hormones and characters like Audrey can, intentionally or not, be extremely dangerous by discouraging hormones and other gender affirming care.

I am Not saying that any GNC man is an active threat to hormones for trans people. That ignores a large majority of what I just said. There is a clear distinction to be made between real GNC men and “Femboy” characters like Audrey. The vastly different contexts surrounding them and the fact that one is a real person and the other is a drawing make them completely separate discussions.

I am also not under the belief that GNC men or that all GNC male characters are threats to hormones. It is a specific type of perfectly feminine male character that I believe can be harmful due to the content surrounding them. I hope that has been made crystal clear.

The next trans issue that Audrey is faced with is transphobia and, frankly, this is where a lot of my personal grievances come from so please prepare yourself mentally.

In TBFV 4, Val asks Audrey if he is ever harassed for being the way he is to which Audrey responds “No idea. It’s beneath my notice. Even if they did, it wouldn’t bother me. I’m beyond that.” This is further reinforced in TBFV 13 where Val describes Audrey as “…not defined by hurt.”

This is, if I can be crass, absolutely fucking vile. I cannot properly express the distain I hold for… this, but I will try.

On the surface level, this is all well and good: Audrey is perfectly content with himself and his identity and does not let others’ cruelty affect him. But it’s when you begin to look at this from the perspective of a trans woman that it becomes clear why I felt the desire to make this post.

In this comic we have a Man who perfectly passes as a woman and is able to shrug off the personal attacks on his appearance and maintain his own personal identity. A perfectly strong and resilient man all in the body of, as I said earlier, a perfectly feminine AMAB person. This is my primary issue with this comic. It feels like such a slap in the face for this character to exist: He perfectly passes as a woman but is 100% a Cis Man but he also still experiences gender euphoria and dysphoria while using a woman’s name- Just Stop. This is not a character, this is caricature. You’ve made a character combining aspects of Trans and GNC identities in a way which, intentionally or not, comes across as superbly disrespectful to the experiences of transgender individuals. Not every trans character has to fit every box, that isn’t what I’m saying, but a character like Aubrey feels like a cruel joke about how Trans people are treated.

I don’t believe Shen intended to make Audrey this way but what I see in Audrey is the “trans woman” that many Cis people and the internet at large truly want. One who is perfectly feminine, innocent, and resilient to abuse but still never would view herself as a woman. A trans woman without all of the unpleasant feelings that arise from having the Cisnormativity of society be challenged. A trans woman who heard “you can just be a feminine man” and agreed, not because they truly wanted to be GNC (valid) but because they were pressured into being so.

What Audrey really is, at least from my perspective as a trans woman, is a transphobic fantasy of what trans women “should be.” Not someone under any “delusions” of being a “real woman” but instead perfectly content with being a man and merely “pretending” to be a girl. A trans woman who never deludes himself, never goes on medication, never tries to “trick” anyone (Audrey makes sure everyone knows that he’s a man, after all), and is perfectly feminine but still, without a shadow of a doubt, a man. I hope I don’t have to explain how, to someone looking at the comic from this perspective, it can come off as extremely offensive but I do feel the need to say that there are millions of readings of all media. Not all Transgender people would view Audrey in this way but enough do to where I believe it is worth making this post.

Moving on from that intensity, I do want to briefly touch on Val before I conclude as I am aware that there’s many trans And cis people who have an issue with her writing.

Specifically, that since Val is a terminally online Femcel who hates all men until she meets the “right man” who also happens to be perfectly feminine that fixes all of Val’s problems, the comic is reinforcing negative ideas. I don’t believe this to be the case, at least for now. Audrey is, as it stands, a man so it’s moreso just a typical “person hates group x until meeting a x person.” Personally, I find Val to be extremely tone-deaf and the usage of terms like “moid” to be gross but I’m not of the opinion that Val is particularly problematic. There is also an idea that Val is a lesbian who just hates all men which is deeply lesbophobic but I just don’t find that likely. I generally don’t have much to say about Val despite her being the main character since a lot of her writing deals more with her opening up to people emotionally rather than anything pertaining to this post.

And that should be all. I hope you found this informative and, even if it didn’t change your opinion at all, can help explain as to why this comic is somewhat controversial. As I said at the start, this is my own personal subjective opinion and reading of the story. There are numerous ways to view these characters, however, from my personal trans perspective I believe a lot of content in The Boy from Venus is deeply flawed and thought that a post like this could broaden discussion around the comic as well as facilitate better understanding between cis and and trans people.

I am willing to discuss anything pertaining to this post in the comments whether it be clarifying an argument or my opinion on other aspects of the comic but that is all from me for now. If you actually read through this entire post I appreciate your time and I hope you all have a lovely day.