Discussion
Why does Herbert get so much blame when we know the Chargers are and have always been a garbage organization?
Not only did they accomplish nothing with a Hall of Fame QB, HB, and TE (Gates), but they accomplished nothing with Rivers either… Brees looked WAY better on the Saints IMMEDIATELY after he left the Chargers.
The Chargers organization is so shitty that Eli Manning REFUSED to sign a contract to play there.
So why is Herbert expected to accomplish something even some of the best QBs of recent history could not?
Just an observation from someone who is not a Chargers fan.
Edit: since no one has addressed this… What do you think was the reason Eli Manning didn’t sign there?
Especially qbs who are in the elite qb conversation. As soon as they start faltering, everyone just lets loose. I think a big part of it is that everyone who is a fan of a franchise without a great qb is super frustrated. So if another team’s supposedly great qb starts sucking it’s like cathartic for them. And of course if you’re a fan of the “elite” qb’s team you’re in agony over it and can’t believe the guy let you down.
Brees was drafted by a 1-15 team, and his first year as a starter they won 4 more games than his rookie year on the bench and were 12-4 in his 3rd year.
They got rid of him because he suffered a major major injury for anyone who throws for a living, and it was unknown if he’d ever throw again. The chargers drafted/traded for rivers amid the uncertainty, and let Brees go.
He failed a physical in Miami so clearly SD wasn’t alone in their thought. We give brees all his flowers for the numbers he put up, he was still 9-9 in his playoff career, which is basically one superbowl run better than Rivers.
they didn’t draft Rivers amid uncertainty with Brees injury. They drafted Rivers because Brees was really bad and unproductive in year three. He got benched for Flutie at one point (and Flutie vastly outplayed him).
keep in mind that this was pre-rookie scale too, so Rivers was making insane money as a top five pick to just sit on the bench. And Brees played his final year on the franchise tag. Even if Brees had not have gotten hurt, was no financially tenable way to keep them both for another season.
this is actually a great point. the main reason brees retained his job is because rivers held out all summer because he wanted money closer to the #1 pick than the #4 pick.
Not as simple as that. Nobody knew if Brees would be able to recover from that injury and they had Rivers on the roster.
The Saints were the only team that took a chance on the injured Brees in FA. The Dolphins wouldn't pull the trigger on him because the injury was so bad their medical team didn't clear him.
Simple, $hit rolls down hill. The top is responsible for the personnel employed throughout the entire organization, the thinking of the organization, and the decisions made within the organization. Owner - Executive Team - Management- Coaches - Players. So yes, terrible ownership. This accountability cannot be dodged. This is basic chain of command lol
Please. If you’re going to blame an otherwise good team “choking” on some billionaire owner and his executives, then you have to give those same people all the credit when the team wins a Super Bowl. Come on man.
Straw manning again, when asked what the team did beside have some good players, you answer with "here's some good players they had".
Brees did nothing with the team, 0-1 in the playoffs in the five years he was with them. And Ladanian's only got three playoff wins his nine years with them. Gates for 5 wins in 16 years.
They gave them one of the best O-lines in the league.
Yes, they didn't win a super bowl but that doesn't mean they accomplished nothing. They had one of the best offenses in the league for years and won some playoff games but were constantly let down by their kicker in big spots in playoff games and the infamous Marlon McCree fumble. Also, some pretty notable injuries to LT and Rivers in the playoffs.
Can we put a ban on people posting this for like... 5 years? Not because it bothers me as a Chargers fan but because it always gets brought up as though it's not an incredibly well-known fact that was popularized by a viral video almost a decade ago
It's also... kinda overrated as a stat. Those numbers were inflated because of how bad the special teams was. The bad special teams meant their offense has to go further to score and their defense had less real estate to defend.
Though I guess that could be a great way to make your defense look good (in a vacuum). "Look! We only gave up 1 yard today!" "But you lost after they scored a touchdown and 5 field goals?" "But we only gave up one yard!"
LoNeal was a great FB and the prime LT years had a top oline. Add to that a solid defense. They were actual SB contenders. Brees was not Brees yet and had a major shoulder injury, so they also invested in getting LT a top QB prospect.
The logic is insane. They think a stupid owner outweighs years of having rosters with all pros at literally every position yet coming up short when it matters. Crazy.
Chargers fans are like battered housewives and will really be like "no they're actually really good to me! Remember back in 2001 when we drafted a good running back?"
Like "do you have the internet?" was a legitimate question to ask someone the last time this team was in a conference title game.
He’s not wrong. They had the number one offense and defense and they still found a way not to make the playoffs. Doesn’t matter how good you are they find a way to lose. You could swap Seahawks with the Chargers and Mike and this organization would have them at 3-2.
I’m not wrong. Ownership is the key factor in building a winning franchise on a consistent basis. I have been following over 30 years and listen to around ten hours a week over the last 11 years of football breakdown. Winning franchises have good ownership that know how to build a winning culture. The Chargers have never had that. I saw first hand the impact ownership had for the Seahawks vs the Mariners. The culture for Washington commanders shifting and allowing them to make the NFC championship game in their first season. Consistently bad or mediocre franchises have bad ownership bc they don’t know what to look for in coaches and staff.
LOL I don't think it requires one to listen to 10 hours a week of football "breakdown" to think that ownership is a key factor in success.
It's very interesting that the 2010 Chargers had the #1 offense and #1 defense in spite of ownership, coaches, and staff. Here I was thinking Ron Rivera was a highly regarded DC and culture guy who coached the defense to a #1 finish.
And here I was thinking that the Commanders regressed after 2024 because they were lucky to get to the NFCCG and Jayden Daniels' frame won't last in the NFL. Nope, it was all because of culture!
Why do you find it funny? Why does every comment punch down to the fact I’m just simply stating I have a better understanding of football than most people in here. The fact you’re making fun of me tells me you really don’t know what you’re talking about and just want to sound smart. You would rather try and sound edgy than actually learn anything new. It requires you to actually learn and educate yourself about how good NFL teams are actually built. Dismissing my comment makes you look like an ass
Can't tell if this is a troll post or not. They aren't a garbage org like the Browns or Jets but probably around the same area as my Vikings. The franchise can obviously draft and develop all pro and HOF players but can't produce in the playoffs.
It’s only been 5 weeks of mainstream acknowledgement of Herbert’s shortfalls, and he’s already swinging back to “underrated/overhated” lmao. He gets blamed because he hasn’t done anything in 7 years as an NFL QB. You know who took their team to two playoff appearances with zero playoff wins in 9 years? Derek Carr. Herbert is the new Derek Carr, but he gets way more love than Carr got towards the end of his career.
I think its just because the league desperately wants the chargers to be successful in LA instead of the nfl clippers. So nfl media really forces them on us
Totally. It’s hilarious seeing them getting called ‘SB contenders’ by the media year after year despite the fact they’ve choked in the playoffs in the last 2 decades. The NFL doesn’t want to admit that the Chargers LA experiment was a complete disaster and are just doubling down on their stupid decision
Thats been the story of the chargers my entire lifetime. They are the university of oregon of the nfl. Always preseason darlings despite never doing anything
I think people also too often conflate physical talent with being a good QB. Herbert has all the physical tools, and I think he requires the right system to excel, like most QBs. That’s fine. But that’s the kind of thing that separates good QBs from elite QBs. Herbert has a lot of things going against him right now, and it’s a shame the Chargers organization decided to challenge him this far into his career instead of playing into his strengths. McDaniel shouldn’t have been hired to “fix” him. McDaniel should be with a team with a QB like Tua who actually needs his skillset as an OC and run game designer to take the burden off of the QB.
The reading comprehension of a snail. Yes, the mainstream media has been piling on him this season. But up until now, it’s been “what if he had this, what if he had that” and he was never blamed for the Chargers failures. Now that he’s actually being critiqued, we’re getting these dumb posts asking why he’s getting the blame, as if he wasn’t avoiding the blame for the past half decade.
I can answer the Eli Manning question. The story goes Spanos GM AJ Smith and Coach Marty Schottenheimer had a dinner meeting with Eli before the draft. During the meeting AJ Smith and Schottenheimer were arguing the whole time and Eli saw the disfunction within the organization 1st hand and decided then he wasn’t going to SD.
Point still stands - we’re going to base burrows success from 4 seasons ago? In total Herbert has more wins, yards, and TDs all with a worse support cast but because burrow won playoff games years ago that’s what we’re going to hold onto? Lazy.
I’m not, I think burrow is fantastic, I’m just using your brain dead logic to poke holes in burrow. See how a lack of context shows how dumb my burrow take is? Difference is I don’t believe my dumb take, you’re actually retarded so you believe your Herbert take
Why are you in denial about Herbert being bad? 🤣 the tape is out there to watch. He’s the worst rated PFF QB other than Cooper Rush. I’m not retarded for believing what my eyes are seeing 😭
Burrow made the Super Bowl his 2nd year and then made it back to the AFC championship his 3rd year. Herbert can't even make it past the wild card round and has a passer rating of 64 in the playoffs, thats the 2nd worst this century
In what way is burrow underperformed? Won the AFC North twice, has a Super Bowl appearance followed by another AFC Championship appearance. Has been a top 5 QB when healthy and debatably should’ve had MVP votes in 2024. He’s currently ~top 5 in every passing stat so far this year. Now what has Herbert done?
Because ESPN has led the way in destroying actual analysis and conversation about sports. All the current gen knows is say something outlandish the loudest to get the most attention. It’s almost all overreaction to small sample sizes these days.
Brees,LT, Rivers and Gates all had much more success than Herbert. Brees was great his final 2 seasons with the Chargers. But no arguments elsewhere. Herbert’s overrated
Raiders have been trash for 20 years. I don't see how swapping them gets them more wins during that time frame with NE dominance, Jets having moderate success in the 2000s, and the Bills being very good over the last 7 years or so.
I mean they havent done anything fun since the Fouts era
But its not their fault, theyre a small market team in a City that didnt care about football, and moved to a large market to play second fiddle to the Rams
Them and the Cardinals are basically minor-league football
Playing for an unsuccessful organization doesn’t excuse your performances on the field. Lots of great QBs played for unsuccessful organizations and ended up being successful with them.
I like Herbert. I just think it's because people kept propping him up as a top 5 elite guy when he's not. He's not trash by any means, but at this point in his career, he's more comparable to someone like Tua than someone like Burrow.
Is the ownership and management group the ones throwing interceptions? Calling bad plays? Constantly getting hurt? Having their supposed star level players like Derwin, Slater, and Alt constantly injured?
Your frustration seems misdirected. I'd rather be more upset at the media and your coaching staff that has seemingly anointed Herbert as a top QB in the NFL before he was given a fair chance to meet those expectations and before he was even established in the league. Herbert is a victim of impossible expectations considering his competition and generation of QBs that he is compared to.
As long as they are under their current ownership, the Chargers will never accomplish anything. They have always underperformed. Always got dissed by other players/past players. One of the worst NFL organizations. Eli did not sign with the team because he knew of their dysfunction with AJ Smith at the helm.
Because it's a QB-driven league. You cannot divorce a team's success or failure from its QB.
As for Drew Brees, the real difference for him was getting coached by Sean Payton, not simply leaving the Chargers. Besides, the Saints had an even worse reputation than the Chargers.
As a Chargers fan, the organization is cursed. I usually don’t believe in such nonsense, but I genuinely can’t comprehend how they’ve failed so spectacularly.
The Spanos’ aren’t great owners, historically, but they aren’t the worst either. And the collapses preceded their tenure. The Cornell/Fouts era also was also typified by notable playoff failures (Fouts threw 5 ints in one divisional round game and 4 in another).
Recently, ownership has basically given the fans and media everything they’ve asked for. They were seen as cheap for decades, but then they started spending on players. They were seen as cheap about facilities but then they built maybe the best training center in the league. They were seen as too controlling to get a competent coach, until they hired Harbaugh, who was seen as the dream coach by fans. Then they hired McDaniel, who everyone thought was going to be good at a minimum, possibly great.
Harbaugh came in and the expectation was that he would build a wall around Herbert. Hell, he said they view o-line as weapons. He and Roman said they’d give Herbert a running game, and you’d expect that from their history. Harbaugh brought in Ben Herbert to resolve the injury issues that always plague the team.
All of this is why I get so annoyed by the Herbert discourse. This franchise has had multiple great QBs and they’ve all fallen apart in key moments. It’s nothing new.
The organization defies comprehension. It has to be a curse; there’s no other explanation.
I don’t see much blame, I see a lot of people saying he isn’t a top 5 talent like every pundit has said in the last 5 years.
He has been awful this year and bad in the playoffs.
As far as players go, QBs get the blame when a team struggles and the glory when they succeed.
As for Eli, pre draft was a nightmare between owner, coach, and GM fighting with each other at dinner. So yes, the Manning family thought there was organization concerns. The team had success soon after that. There happened to be a player named Tom Brady. Lost to a great Steelers team.
That was 20+ years ago and doesn’t explain Herbert’s performance.
This doesn’t even make sense. What Herbert does or doesn’t do now has nothing to do with Tomlinson or Brees 25 years ago. They played for the same team, that’s it
He’s getting so much blame because for years charger fans glazed him left and right putting him in top 5 convos. The bubble has popped and he STILL hasn’t accomplished anything. All people like me are asking for is at least 1 playoff win. The browns accomplished this
Herbert has yet to win a playoff game in 7 freaking years. ONE SINGLE PLAYOFF GAME
Stan Humphries made a damn Super Bowl, and Philip Rivers was one dumb Marlon Mcree fumble away from probably making one too but Herbert cant win 1 single damn playoff game?
The chargers have always been more unlucky than bad. Drafting Ryan leaf was bad. But as a whole it’s usually just injuries or bad luck. Their owners are and were cheap though.
Which makes sense, since they already have a top 5 - 8 Quarterback in the League, Quentin Johnston, and absolutely nothing else worth noting on offense.
Meanwhile, Josh McDaniels is the perfect fall guy.
...and yes, at least 24 other teams would immediately take Herbert over whoever they currently have at QB; without blinking.
You know the one I'm talking about... the guy who looks like that dude trying to hit your blunt rotation, with a giant herpes sore on his lip; saying: nah man, it's just a fever blister... i swear
Eli and Peyton being goofy and marketable has really helped people forget how this douchey .01% family refused to let their son play football in San Diego for millions of dollars
It’s a free country, but you don’t often see the 1st pick holding out or anything of the sort
They should move to a city that wants to support them. San Diego didn’t want to, Los Angeles doesn’t care about them, there’s some markets that would jump right on board that football team.
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u/Illustrious-Fan8268 r/nfl sucks 1d ago
Because this sub is all about shitting on QBs