r/Malazan • u/stonecast_3864 • 1d ago
SPOILERS MBotF Please help me understand Spoiler
Why do the Bonehunters march with Mandata Tavore towards Kolanse? I mean the common soldiers who die like flies in the desert. What‘s their motivation?
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u/Aqua_Tot 1d ago
They’re soldiers, they follow commands. Blistig helps to encapsulate the doubt they feel, and it turns him nasty.
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u/XIMarleyIX 1d ago
- They’re soldiers, they follow commands.
I'd also say that the veterans (Fiddler et al.) following Tavore plays a big role for the "common soldiers".
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u/TheHumanTarget84 1d ago
What else can they do, exactly?
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u/PizzaCrost 1d ago
Quit and live it out in Letharas, they’ve been getting paid for years, and the bridge burners made it work in a foreign city
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u/TheHumanTarget84 1d ago
With what money? You think they got to cash out their pension when they ran from the Empire?
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u/PizzaCrost 1d ago
Banaschar raids the coffers from all of Dreks temples worldwide and pays the 14th’s salaries after they quit the empire. This is explicit, not sure why you downvote
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u/TheHumanTarget84 1d ago
Are they carrying around all that money in their backpacks though?
I'm just saying beyond avoiding execution for going AWOL in a foreign continent, I don't think getting to take their money with them once they realize how bad things are is easy.
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u/Wizardof1000Kings 1d ago
Their empire declared them outlaws. Given the circumstances, their options were settle in Lether or follow Tavore. Tavore at least seems to have a plan and end goal in mind, so the army follows her. The common soldier can desert in an unknown land or see the plan through. I'd think most would want to continue on, it's safer to stay with the army.
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u/WatsBlend 1d ago
Honestly they all have their own reasons. They each signed up for a purpose. Fiddler even mentions leaving and disappearing into Lether as a possibility. I think a lot of them were on the fence about it. It doesnt make much sense until I asked myself why each individual soldier decided to stay, then you get some answers. Some of them just straight up enjoy being soldiers and wouldnt consider anything else, especially a lot of the heavies. Theyve been through hell together multiple times, with doubts about it the whole way, yet some of them survived. I bet some of them just want to see it through to the end. Especially the bonehunters specifically, theyve all met what they thought was certain death and survived miraculously. I bet fear of death just doesnt hit the same. I could go on and on and on, but I think the entirety of the Mbotf series does a better job of explaining soldiers and their motivations.
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u/Funkativity 1d ago
There's no simple 1-2 paragraph answer to this, Erikson spends hundreds of pages in RG, DoD and TCG to explore this question.
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u/Jave3636 1d ago
By the time they get to the point where they might mutiny, they're too far away from anywhere that they have no choice. At first, they just follow orders, commanders never tell the minions the details of the plan. By the time they start to doubt, turning around would mean death anyway, as they're too far out in the desert to survive going back.
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u/Repulsive_Pea5922 1d ago
I always wondered how she had the coin to pay and feed an entire army all this time
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u/AnomanderRaked 1d ago
Banaschar's endless coin from temple coffers that he stole while he was going around visiting the different D'rek temples to see if anyone else was alive As we see one example in the bone hunters prologue. He keeps the money in pocket Warrens and it's mentioned Tavore uses him to bankroll the army in reapers gale.
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u/Repulsive_Pea5922 23h ago
Yes of course. What does he get out of it though?
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u/AnomanderRaked 22h ago
I mean there's things like providing an outlet for him to use something that cause him nothing but guilt for a cause that actually means something. The act of compassion for keeping thousands of soldiers from just dying from lack of food and resources?
In reality tho why does he need to gain something? Hes stuck with the bonehunters after helion takes him captive at the end of bonehunters and now he's stuck in a foreign continent he has no connection with. Tavore learns of his cache of wealth from someone in the army I forget and then attaches him to her inner circle. He could leave at that point just like quick ben could have deserted when Tavore discovered his true mage talents and promoted him to high mage but both choose to stick by Tavore and it's entirely up to your interpretation of their characters as to why they do that.
Like banaschar is the last priest of D'rek and he no longer feels the worm at that time. he thinks his God abandoned him after wiping out all the followers who supported the crippled God and hes in a complete crisis of faith and belief. Then he meets Tavore and her army who have similarly just been abandoned by their empire. Banaschar can relate and see similar struggles he's faceing in the 14th and yet Tavore has a goal and an objective that she is actively marching towards unlike him who basically given up and lived as nothing but a drunk for years. It's not unrealistic that he would be interested in seeing out what Tavore does and the usage of his weath? It would be lost with his death so is it really outrageously for him to use it on this army he wants to see where they go and what they accomplish?
That's just an interpretation however u can draw ur own from how u interpreted banaschar's character tbh. Maybe Tavore just threatened him and with him being a prominent easily identifiable individual in the middle of an army he couldn't get away so he just resigned him to paying for the army. It's not like he had much to live for at that point either way after all so why would he care if these strangers used his wealth? Many different ways u can Interpret his decision.
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u/UnknownBaron I am not yet done 1d ago
Tavore is this messiah mysterious character that we as a reader are not allowed to understand anything about.. I am in the middle of Dod and feel burning out of this book
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u/RCA_TUBES 1d ago
That is intentional. The reader is supposed to be in the same position as the soldiers, unsure of her motivations and sources of information. All I can say is RAFO.
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u/UnknownBaron I am not yet done 1d ago
To be fair I don't know if I will read further, I looked up a few reviews and it seems that SE is opening even more new storylines in the crippled god. I am running on fumes and sunken cost bias
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u/RCA_TUBES 1d ago
I would say that TCG is probably the fastest-paced, easiest read in the series. If you're this far along I'd recommend finishing.
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u/disies59 1d ago
Describing them as ‘New Storylines’ would be a stretch.
While not every side character and side situation gets resolved, a vast majority of the main characters and main plot lines do, so you can comfortably stop at the end of the MBOTF and not feel like you’re missing a bunch.
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u/OneArmedNoodler 17h ago
Never heard of someone referring to a book as a sunken cost... that's an interesting take. But by all means, if you think these books are a waste of time, you should stop reading them.
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u/rianwithaneye 1d ago
On the one hand, they're soldiers. Soldiers follow orders.
On the other hand... I didn't get it either. To be perfectly honest I found the whole "compassion" pivot in the last 2-3 books a bit ridiculous and forced. Looking forward to seeing how it hits on a re-read though 🤷♂️
Also: who tf is Mandata Tavore??
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u/therude00 1d ago
Compassion is a theme early in the books as well. During my reread I was surprised how often it came up early on.
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u/RCA_TUBES 1d ago edited 1d ago
To be perfectly honest I found the whole "compassion" pivot in the last 2-3 books a bit ridiculous and forced.
I didn't feel this way. And honestly it makes good sense that she kept her plan secret when the plan involved freeing an angry god that most people saw as evil
Edit: Added spoiler tags due to the below complaint even though this thread is marked "Spoilers MBotF"
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u/blleeaacchh Read botf | rereading MoI 1d ago
Maybe don’t spoil
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u/RCA_TUBES 1d ago
This thread is clearly tagged "Spoilers MBotF". I'll put spoiler tags anyway, but if anyone is reading this thread they've already been warned.
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