r/Gent • u/Aromatic-Evidence817 • 4d ago
Push by older man
I'm so shocked. I (female) just got pushed by an older man while I was on my bike. It happened at the crossing between Gent and Ledeberg.
We both had a green light at the same time. I had enough space to turn, but he sped up and just pushed me. Then I got angry, he walked away, but his wife kept saying I was wrong.
I'm so shaken :(
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u/Orvall 4d ago
The pedestrian had the right of way. When you turn (as a cyclist or car driver) you have to give priority to people (cyclists or pedestrians) crossing or continuing their way.
19.4. De bestuurder die van richting verandert moet voorrang verlenen aan de bestuurders en aan de voetgangers die de andere delen van dezelfde openbare weg volgen.
19.5. De bestuurder die van richting verandert moet voorrang verlenen aan de voetgangers die de rijbaan oversteken die hij gaat oprijden.
If you got pushed by an elderly man, it means you passed way too close to him while you had to give priority. If you misjudged his/her speed, you would've hit that person. Do file a police report and report back here, it will be a useful lesson.
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 3d ago
Will report back
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago edited 1d ago
I don’t know if they have WiFi in prison, but yes, do that, after this “murder attempt” on an elderly man that WALKED as you described. Unless it was Usain Bolt running, he did not make a violation of traffic law.
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u/Powerful_Cash1872 3d ago
It wasn't clear to me from the description if the elderly man was another cyclist or not, or if he was also turning. Pretty sure murder requires intent. If the old guy shoved a cyclist in traffic, that's a lot closer to trying to kill someone, even if the cyclist was in the middle of a traffic violation. You'd probably need video to really ascertain if the shove was self defense or assault.
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u/Circoloomnium 1d ago
Yes, three elements have to be fullfilled, it was written down as a boutade because everything was going over the top anyway. It would be “onvrijwillige slagen en verwonding met de dood tot gevolg”.
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u/FinancialGazelle6558 1d ago
As a Criminologist with law in my background I can tell you, this is idiotic to state. No violence is allowed after a trafic infraction. Is that clear?
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u/Circoloomnium 1d ago
I have a master in law, criminologist.
Art. 71 sw, now art. 22 could be applicable if you would be able to play down the different actions in your head and would be able to oversee the different actions from both parties where we only know one version of.
I had a nice conversation with this lady. The matter is closed for me.
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u/Circoloomnium 4d ago
Hij had voorrang. Hij is een zwakkere weggebruiker dan jij. Zijn houding was ongepast, maar voor hetzelfde geld had je hem aangereden.
Als je hem voorrang had verleend, zou de situatie zich dan ook hebben voorgedaan? Wellicht niet.
Let er op in de toekomst, voor het zelfde geld maakt hij dezelfde bedenking.
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u/Hardcrimper 4d ago
dit lijkt inderdaad op de zoveelste fietser die geen voorrang verleent aan zwakkere weggebruikers. kot is wel altijd te klein als hun voorrang wordt afgenomen.
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u/Escapetheshape 2d ago
Agreed. Overdreven reactie maar de pas afgesneden worden door een fietser is echt onaangenaam. Gewoon niet doen.
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4d ago
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago
Neen, domme kip. Ik leef regels na en scheld hen uit voor een boerderijdier als ze me willen overhoop rijden.
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 3d ago
Please do not curse and have respect for each other. The world doesn't need more hatred
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago
Ah, zeg je dat tegen mij? Nadat iemand de schreef overging door te stellen dat ik geweldplegingen toepas?
Hoe hypocriet!
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'm surprised by your comment, because he purposefully walked faster (his wife was behind him) to make a point and push me. There was a lot of space in between us.
Anyway, I will make police report, because I wouldn't be surprised if he has done this more often
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago
Ik denk dat je een paar zaken niet begrijpt. Ik steun het fysieke contact helemaal niet. Wel is het zo dat die heer een statement wilde maken. Dat had ook verbaal gekund.
Ik ben niet gefrustreerd, maar er bestaat ook zoiets als defensief rijden. Als ik met de auto rijd, dan steken fietsers ook vaak over terwijl ze geen voorrang hebben. Ik mag die ook niet aanrijden.
Als ik als fietser rijd, dan steken voetgangers ook wel eens over waar dat niet mag. Ik mag die voetganger ook niet aanrijden. Ik moet stoppen en de voetganger via de horizontale as t.a.v. mij als je vanuit de hoogte kijkt laten oversteken.
Als die voetganger op een zebrapad was, had hij voorrang. Ook als hij groen had en jij van jouw kant groen hebt aan een kruispunt. Het is niet omdat je mag afslaan door rood als fietser dat je op de weg waar je inslaat geen voorrang zou moeten verlenen aan overstekende voetgangers.
En daar zit ook jouw fout.
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 3d ago edited 3d ago
I didn't run red on right. I had a green light. Similar to him
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago
Dus jij had groen, hij had groen…
Jij slaat af. Hij steekt over. Op een zebrapad.
Wat moet jij als fietser dan doen? De eerste willen zijn of voorrang verlenen aan de zwakke weggebruiker?
Je mag twee keer raden vandaag.
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4d ago
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago
Neen, dat recht heb je niet. De wegcode schrijft voor dat je voorrang verleent zodra een voetganger zinnens is om over te steken. “Ik kan er op zij langs als ik snel genoeg rijd maakt die regel ongeldig” staat niet in de regelgeving.
Hoog tijd dat alle bestuurders van een voertuig een rijbewijs behalen. Dit kan gewoon echt niet langer.
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 3d ago
I have a drivers license. We all have different perspective on what happened. Which is fine. I will fill a police report. If there are cameras, I trust the police will judge fairly and if I was wrong, then that's the case. However, I really believe that he did this on purpose, but time will tell
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago
Was hij op een zebrapad?
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 3d ago
No, he wasnt. There wasn't a crossing or zebrapad
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 3d ago
He just crossed the street, when the light was green for cars. The official zebrapad is a few meters away.
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago
Ok geen zebrapad. In dat geval moet je geen voorrang verlenen (maar je mag hem evenmin aanrijden wegens voorzienbaar) als je al op dezelfde weg reed.
Wel sloeg jij het kruispunt af. Dat verandert de zaak. Hier moet jij wél voorrang geven. Wat je niet hebt gedaan, je wou er nog snel voorbij.
Beeld je in dat jij de baan oversteekt met je fiets. Een auto slaat in en rijdt voorbij zonder jouw voorrang te geven.
Wat is dan je reactie?
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 3d ago
This wouldn't happen to me tbh, I wouldn't cross the street if there isn't a bikepath knowing that cars have a green light. Instead, I would use the bike lane.
However, if that would happen. I would be in shock. But I wouldn't push someone trying to harm them.
I almost fell. I'm sure he didn't mean to push me as hard as he did. But imagine I would end up with a head I jury
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 3d ago
Thank you. Indeed, he did it to make a point. The rules of that intersection have changed a whole back and i understand that it can be frustrated and difficult to navigate from some people.
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago
Als je dat kruispunt bent afgeslagen dan veranderen de voorrangsregels niet en al zeker niet t.a.v. een zebrapad.
Los van een zebrapad. Als fietser moet je rekening houden met een voorzienbare hindernis. Ook met versnellende voetgangers want het is niet dat deze plots accelereren naar 50 Km/u.
Als het tot een aanrijding was gekomen, dan had jij de lichamelijke schade, etc moeten vergoeden.
En tegen wie ga je klacht indienen? En op basis van wat? Je hebt de facto iemand aangereden.
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 3d ago
That he pushed me. But let's not be judges here. I hope there is a camera and the police can decide
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ah, wij mogen geen rechters zijn, maar jij mag dat wel.
In België geldt het adagium “Nemo judex in causa sua”.
Er is geen enkele rechter die je zal volgen. Dat duwen zou ik niet doen, maar dit kan ressorteren onder art. 71 Sw (geen idee welk artikel in het nieuw strafwetboek, maar het principe blijft) terwijl iemand er met een massa/gewicht van boven de 50 kg op hem inrijdt. Iets wat niet had gekund als je VOORRANG had verleend.
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u/FinancialGazelle6558 3d ago
Your being a massive a-hole. Traffic infractions, even if she made one, dont give you the right to physically assault someone. Are you mad in the nocker ' ?
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago
He pushed, which is an adaptation of art 71 sw or art 22 sw (new version).
That is the law and I am very sure, even 100 percent sure, she will get nowhere. They will take her statement. That is it. Nothing more.
If they would find him, possibilities are way higher she will be the one punished.
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u/69harambe69 2d ago
This thread is making me fume. So the pedestrian purposefully started walking faster to push OP and ppl here are siding with the old boomer?
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u/FinancialGazelle6558 1d ago
Seems like it.. not sure why Im the asshole here. I mean what do I know about the law, im just a dumb criminologist
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u/FinancialGazelle6558 3d ago
So physical violence then is allowed? Come on man.
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u/Circoloomnium 3d ago
If I spit in your face and in a reflex you instantly push me, who will be the one that committed a criminal fact?
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u/Aquilax420 2d ago
Depending on what happens after you push that person, both of you. If the other person falls and hits their head, I doubt it will be seen as self defence because your reaction was not proportionate to the other person's action.
Apart from that, I don't think that's what's happened here. According to traffic law in Belgium, it is prohibited for anyone using the road to purposefully act in an unpredictable way. It doesn't matter if you're a pedestrian, a cyclist or driving a car. Suddenly speeding up as a pedestrian to intercept a cyclists when the cyclist would have passed by without any issue if the pedestrian wouldn't have sped up, would cause the pedestrian to be at fault.
Compare it to a road narrowing where car A is approaching the narrow part of the road and has the right of way. Car B, coming from the opposite direction and should yield to car A, would normally have time to pass without blocking car A so they start driving through the narrow part. If car A would continue to drive at the speed they were driving originally, car B could pass without issue. But the driver of car A is frustrated and decides to speed up and blocks car B. Who do you think is at fault then?
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u/Circoloomnium 2d ago
En elderly man speeding up?
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u/Aquilax420 2d ago
Did you read the original post? It never mentioned an elderly man, just an older man. OP could be 20 while the man could be 25 for all we know. OP also said he sped up and pushed her
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u/debaeel 4d ago
I don’t understand the situation? Both green how? Turn where? Sped up running?
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 4d ago
He was walking with his wife and I was on my bike we both had green traffic lights at the same time. I turned to the right at the crossing. And no, he didn't run. I'm sorry if my story isn't clear. I just have never had this before. I'm shaken and it was dark
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u/efari_ 4d ago
If pedestrians are crossing a crosswalk they have the right of way.
Even though you had green, to turn right you have to wait until the crosswalk is clear. (Whether you’re on bike or in car)
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u/colouredmirrorball 3d ago
This is wrong. You have to yield, but it is not stated that you have to wait until the crosswalk is clear.
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u/69harambe69 2d ago
This. The comments defending the old man going out of his way to harm OP are just ridiculous
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 4d ago edited 3d ago
The issue is that the crosswalk was clear. He purposely, walked faster to push me. It's the crossing at Ledeberg. He was at the beginning of it. No way you can reach me in that time.
Regardless, I don't think pushing someone is ok.
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 4d ago
He push me on purpose 😔
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u/FinancialGazelle6558 4d ago
So sorry you had to go thru that. Some people are just assholes sadly.
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u/1fdemey 3d ago
She was at fault. Let's not make her the victim.
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u/FinancialGazelle6558 3d ago
Who was the one to iniate violence? Making a mistake does not give the other party the right to put their hands on you.
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u/Plastic-Smell3397 13h ago
Op iemand afrijden met een fiets is best geweldadig.
Maarja, je wil natuurlijk geen 2 seconden verliezen. 🤷♂️
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u/MicheleApicella 3d ago
Not quite the same but I also got pushed by an old man very close to the crossroad of Lederberg. I was just out of my house with my bike, cycling with my hands in the pocket cause the cold, and an old man also with a bike pushed me. Still now I don't know how miraculously managed to promptly take out the hands from my pocket and grab the handlebar to not fall down. After a second of shock I decided to run after him and confront him. I don't remember exactly what was the conversation, I was furious so I remember I just kept yelling him "You don't push people!", and I don't remember exactly what he said but I remember the reason he did it was because I was cycling without hands on the handlebar. A car stopped to understand what was going on and calmed the situation, and since he was not cooperative and was useless to waste more time I just decided to bike away for my business.
Said so, I don't know if it's the same guy, but surely in the same way somebody did something very stupid and dangerous. Whatever you are right or wrong you don't push a person on a bike.
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 3d ago
I am so sorry to had to go through that. Thank you for sharing your story
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u/69harambe69 2d ago
The extreme entitlement this old ppl have is something else. Causing someone bodily harm just to proof themselves right is insane
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u/Aquilax420 2d ago
I get that a lot of people in the comments are frustrated with cyclists not adhering to traffic rules, but come on. Being frustrated doesn't give anyone the right to try and cause an accident just so you could maybe get some revenge.
According to traffic law in Belgium, it is prohibited for anyone using the road to purposefully act in an unpredictable way. It doesn't matter if you're a pedestrian, a cyclist or driving a car. Suddenly speeding up as a pedestrian to intercept a cyclists when the cyclist would have passed by without any issue if the pedestrian wouldn't have sped up, would cause the pedestrian to be at fault.
Compare it to a road narrowing where car A is approaching the narrow part of the road and has the right of way. Car B, coming from the opposite direction and should yield to car A, would normally have time to pass without blocking car A so they start driving through the narrow part. If car A would continue to drive at the speed they were driving originally, car B could pass without issue. But the driver of car A is frustrated and decides to speed up and blocks car B. Who do you think is at fault then?
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u/Orvall 2d ago
As far as I know, there's no rule concerning "predictability" in Belgian traffic legislation (please correct me if I'm wrong). There is a general rule not to endanger other road users (art. 7) - where both OP and the elderly man would be in the wrong based on OP's testimony.
In your example, car A still has the right of way and car B will be found at fault unless it is possible to prove A exceeded the speed limit AND it was the cause of the accident (and I'm curious if you have any rulings). Dura lex ...
The only instance where a person is forbidden to accelerate is when you're being overtaken.
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u/Funnyvalentine89 1d ago
Er lopen teveel dikke nekken rond in Gent die nul praktisch verkeersinzicht hebben maar alles draait om hun eigen klein wereldje en rechten. Kan geen halve seconde ruimte geven of wijken of beetje rekening houden. Volgende keer duw hem je vuist in zijn gezicht
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u/Funnyvalentine89 1d ago
De comments zitten vol met arrogante achterlijke Gentse parochiekoningen. Gent kon zo mooi zijn als het niet vol met debielen zat
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u/Chernio_ 20h ago
People are so mean these days, whether you were in the wrong or not doesn't matter here unlike what the others are saying.
You don't push people off their bike. Seems like basic common sense. What if the person on the bike falls on their head? Or in front of a car?
Breaking traffic rules is not a jistification for agressive behavior.
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u/Complete_Roll_8235 2d ago
Another biker in Ghent that doesn't seem to get that pedestrians have priority. When you see with what outrage and dander the above is written... unbelievable!
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u/WrappingPapers 4d ago
Yeah, he sounds like a complete ass. He probably didn’t know about the traffic lights at that crossing to Ledeberg (all bicycles and pedestrians from all directions are allowed to cross at once right?)
There are probably camera’s there if you want a police report. If it happens again and you want to file a report you can follow them while calling the police and tell them where to find you.
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 4d ago
Thank you, I appreciate your answer. And yes it's indeed that crossing. I know it's confusing for everyone.
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u/Aromatic-Evidence817 4d ago
After a night of sleep, I indeed will file a police report. He purposely walked faster to make a point and I wouldn't be surprised if he does this more often to make a point
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u/emohipster 3d ago
Jij had geen voorrang en hij had jou niet moeten duwen.
En da is het volledige verhaal.