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u/DoctahDonkey 15h ago
They don't mention a name, but I'm positive they are referring to Video Game Esoterica when they mention "sloptubers".
That channel just started cranking out 3 to 5 low quality videos a day when the recent decomp AI craze picked up. No substance to any of the videos either, just doing it because it gets clicks.
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u/Quibbloboy 15h ago
I watched a few of his videos at first, and then I realized every single one was functionally just a worse, less efficient version of simply reading the GitHub.
Assuming there even is a GitHub. The channel makes zero effort to distinguish between focused, intent-driven projects and rickety vibe-coded slop. It's a machine that converts Reddit post titles into YouTube view numbers. I've got him hidden on YouTube, but that doesn't stop him from cropping up on my Reddit feed. Annoying.
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u/NekoBerry420 13h ago
I don't mind but I generally stop watching the videos and just click through to the github on the description now. I do like to be aware of the decomp/recomp.
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u/junttiana 15h ago
I used to enjoy his videos back when he still focused on games running on extremely obscure hardware. Shame that his channel turned into low-effort spam over time.
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u/xalibermods 14h ago
YouTube incentivizes this kind of content farming. This is why I think what makes this AI phenomenon the worst is because it's coupled with content farming practices vying for your clicks.
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u/Nat-Chem 6h ago
YouTube might make this style profitable but I don't think that excuses people who lean into it so cynically. There's no reason you have to do the most profitable, algorithmic thing with your channel, not when it gets in the way of what you ostensibly care about.
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u/AntComfortable5970 13h ago
Fucking same.
I only subscribed like 6 months or so back when it was just the odd recomp every so often and he had a few views it was so cool then, now it's nonstop
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u/Blood-PawWerewolf 15h ago
Yup. That YouTube channel is promoting the slop and making so many videos a day, that it feels like a content farm
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u/ChezMere 12h ago
Nah. PC ports have always been something that drives massive clicks, far disproportionate to the work that was actually put into them (unlike the much greater work that goes into decompilation).
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u/degenerich 13h ago
Its extremely frustrating with him. Because in this time of an absolutely insane number of projects released, we need someone who is actually going to take the time and properly review these releases, letting the community know which ones are worth playing
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u/Basic_Fall_2759 5h ago
On top of his slop content, that YouTuber has an extremely weird accent and way of stressing words that seems totally opposite of good public speaking standards.
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u/BP_Ray 1h ago
I was a subscriber back when he made videos on obscure arcade games I had never run into or heard about.
They were never amazingly high quality videos but they at least were covering a niche, and he typically didnt slop them out every five seconds.
His pivot to flooding Youtube with videos on low effort ai -comps has been disappontimg to say the least.
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u/Dorian182 15h ago
Existing project pages and historical data will remain available and tracked, so the change removes the public index and new project submissions rather than erasing the archive.
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u/AntComfortable5970 15h ago
Damn, not too surprised that issues with port sniping is a thing.
As with a lot of AI projects, a lot of these ports are done opportunistically and/or with a spiteful edge to it. Think about the rapid PS5 emulation work and the efforts to port Bloodborne, particularly all the memes around it. A lot of this stuff is coming from the worst kind of gaming crowd.
Personally, the huge swarm of ports has taken a lot of the fun out of it, especially since you really have to check and see if they're AI assisted to know what kind of thing to expect going in. A lot of them look good in their trailer but have underlying issues.
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u/ToothlessFTW 15h ago
Spite is a thing I hadn't touched on, but it's certainly made all of it off-putting.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to bend over to defend a corporation, fuck Sony they've done a lot of stupid shit. But opening the comments on any of the recent emulation efforts is just a wall of "I bet Sony is SHAKING in their boots now!!!" and nothing else. The games don't matter, it's just trying to stick one to Sony.
It's just not fun anymore. These people don't actually care about the games, and they don't care about the preservation effort.
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u/Quick_Philosophy1426 14h ago
The spite doesn't even seem mostly targeted at these giant corporations. A lot of it is directed at modders and programmers, they resent them for like, knowing how to do things.
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u/Accurate-Visual9793 12h ago
You even get it from other programmers, now fully onboard with LLM-driven development, who have always resented having to care about keeping their skills up to date and code quality. They are quite vicious.
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u/AntComfortable5970 13h ago
It's an extension of people using AI as a way to get back at artists they believe wronged them somehow.
The sentiment is more popular than you'd think
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u/bakugo 6h ago
All of this stuff starts making a lot more sense when you understand that there's a huge percentage of the world's population, maybe 70% or more, who have literally never created or accomplished anything unique in their lives, ever. All they do is occupy space, consume what others create, and pass time until they die.
Most of these "people" accept their position in life and just stay quiet, but a small subset of them refuse to accept it and are actively resentful towards creatives for daring to accomplish what they can't. These "people" are the AI sloppers who spam their garbage everywhere. They don't care about the craft at all, if they did they would've learned it before AI, they just get angry and jealous when they see others achieving more than they could ever dream of. And now that they finally have a way to get back at those creatives they hate so much, you can bet your ass they're taking the opportunity.
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u/Consistent-Hat-8008 14h ago
resent them for like, knowing how to do things
Class war, yeah. These opinions have been pushed for years now.
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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 13h ago
The class war isn't between workers??
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u/RoastCabose 12h ago
I think they mean workers who resent being workers, and would prefer to just have things done, with no knowledge on how.
Much like how a careless owner might.
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u/Kalulosu 14h ago
In a way, those compagnies are reaping what they sowed, but the problem is a lot of that crowd will take that as an excuse to be terrible to people as well.
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u/PhoenixWright-AA 14h ago
I think quite a few people really are disgusted by Sony and only ever really cared about getting Bloodborne somewhere else. Seriously. I have a PS5 Pro and I’m essentially one of those people. The only other relevant game I’m concerned about is Gran Turismo.
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u/ToothlessFTW 1h ago
Bloodborne has been "somewhere else" for years now, no AI necessary. PS4 emulators have been playing the game at increased frame rates and resolutions for a long time, and modded PS5s have been running it at 60fps for a long time too.
AI was not necessary to do all of this. These "native" PC ports you've been seeing are all built on top of ShadPS4 anyway, it's still emulation in some form. Nothing has changed except it's now a lot more broken, and built off of the back of someone else's work.
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u/Quick_Philosophy1426 15h ago
All you need to do is go to the decomp subreddit's thread on this to see that, yes, these AI bros are entirely driven by spite.
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u/Harley2280 15h ago edited 6h ago
these AI bros are entirely driven by spite.
It's not even the AI bros. There's this entire subset of people who are incredibly "anti-ai" except for this. Like their spite is enough to make them okay with using AI.
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u/Ursa_Solaris 13h ago
As with a lot of AI projects, a lot of these ports are done opportunistically and/or with a spiteful edge to it.
Absolutely this. There's a reason why acceptance of AI is so strongly polarized along political lines and why they count among their biggest supporters some of the most evil, soulless people you can find, along with the entire empty machine that is Corporate America. There's a strong correlation between AI support and general misanthropy, and it's not talked about enough. We talk plenty about whether AI is good or bad, and don't talk enough about whether its supporters are good or bad, which is relevant to the discussion.
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u/UnaverageLurker 15h ago
Maybe someone can explain it to me but why is port sniping an issue? I thought most of the “ports” are open source.
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u/iesalnieks 14h ago edited 13h ago
Because it splits and confuses the community, it is a waste of resources, takes the mindshare away from slower and better projects, sometimes even the older projects get the blame for the rushed projects problems and it just is really demotivating for the people that want to put out a quality product, and puts undue pressure on them.
It would be one thing if only projects that are years away got frontrun in this manner, but it happens to projects that are almost finished as well. Take Midnight Club LA for example, the main project is mere months away because the dev is writing a native graphics pipeline, yet in the last week or two there have been two separate slop recomps of the game, there might even be more out there.
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u/NekoBerry420 13h ago
Why should that damage the effort projects, though? If the crappy recomps suck then the better project will win out in the end. First to market doesn't necessarily win here.
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u/Valnar 13h ago
Or if there's a bunch of crappy recomps that show up first then it might just push the people who were looking out without seeing the good ones.
Like how much effort will people take to wade through bad projects to find a good one, instead of just giving up?
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u/NekoBerry420 13h ago
They don't have to look, if word of mouth spreads. Like what do you think is going to get more traction: Johnny Vibecoder's Persona 3 in a PCSX2 wrapper or Coding Mudkipz' native PC port of it with built in modding support, proper widescreen, 4k native textures, and multiplayer, oh and you can also run it on your phone, Mac, and Steam Deck?
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u/Valnar 13h ago
They don't have to look, if word of mouth spreads.
For word of mouth there still needs to be that initial finding though and enough people being actually interested in it to talk about it. Not impossible of course, but like that initial pool of people is going to be thinner.
ke what do you think is going to get more traction: Johnny Vibecoder's Persona 3 in a PCSX2 wrapper or Coding Mudkipz' native PC port of it with built in modding support
If Coding Mudkipz' pc port does start to gain traction though, what's going to stop people from like making names that are similar to it? Then those can cause confusion on to which one is the actual good one too.
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u/Goronmon 12h ago
You are basically saying we just need to trust in your average person on social media approaching these projects with nuance and the desire to educate themselves about the context and details of the overall process.
That to be feels like a pretty high bar. Do you disagree?
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u/NekoBerry420 11h ago
What I'm saying is if someone hears about some basic ass emulator wrapper port and then later hears about a better one with more features and less bugs, they will naturally gravitate towards the superior one. Vibe coded ports tend to just be quickly thrown out and that's it, the genuine decomps have mods and features that are attractive to users. Doesn't require much research to figure that out.
If you trust yourself to be able to find quality where it matters, why not trust other people?
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u/Goronmon 10h ago
If you trust yourself to be able to find quality where it matters, why not trust other people?
Because as a software developer I have massive amounts of existing context and knowledge about software projects that the vast majority of people don't have at all. And I still don't know really anything about "decomps" specifically to be able to talk to this context with any real certainty.
Which is to say, I know enough to know that I don't understand enough about these types of projects to make informed judgements about individual projects.
So, my answer would be that currently I wouldn't "trust" myself to find quality, and I certainly wouldn't trust other people.
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u/MiddleConscious5951 11h ago
That doesn't actually happen in open source anymore.
It kinda did back when the internet moved slow enough without social media that word of mouth was much more organic. But now with socmed and it's algorithms, a lot of crappy projects with better alternatives frequently gets far more momentum than the robust alternative.
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u/iesalnieks 13h ago
> First to market doesn't necessarily win here.
Most people don't get into doing these things to paricipate in some implied competion.
And again, it can cause quite a bit of damage to the effort projects, my first paragraph was about the ways it does that. Decomps are not the first thing that have dealt with issues like this and in almost all of cases that I know this is looked upon badly. The only place where your mentality sort of works is places where the competion is explicit and expected like in the warez scene where if you fuck up a release and get nuked you can be bullied out.
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u/darkszero 10h ago
People will post news and talk about the garbage one. It'll become harder to find the other one, and then when people talk about "PC port of game X" a lot of people will think of the bad one.
And people will someone start asking for help about the garbage one, making bug reports and so on to the proper team, causing friction and wasting time of volunteers.
Just because someone wanted to snipe being able to say they ported to PC first.
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u/UnaverageLurker 14h ago
I definitely get why that would be demotivating, but at the same time if making the game run better was always the goal I think seeing someone put out something that can be improved upon can be equally motivating. I guess I just find this kind of complaint a little ironic given the community.
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u/iesalnieks 14h ago
But by frontrunning something you are not putting out something that "can be improved", at it's best you are just putting out a sub par product that will go nowhere, at worst you are usurping someone else and their work.
You want to contribute to a project to improve progress - see what it needs to be done and get involved in the project, you want to use the work to port it to another platform - fine, fork it and do that. But just doing exacly the same thing, but worse and faster is never looked well upon in any community project that I know of.
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u/UnaverageLurker 14h ago
I guess I didn't mean could be improved by using their existing code, more I could do that better.
See for me it would really depend on the use case. If you don't want to contribute to a project but still want to mess around with it and do things the way you want I don't really see the issue, even if you want to share it. For me the real issue I could see is doing it to intentionally spite or take away from an existing project. That is super scummy and I'm sure not uncommon.
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u/iesalnieks 14h ago
> more I could do that better.
How would it motivate you to do better, when in fact you are doing more extensive project that actually will give aditional value to the community and someone puts out a half baked project that barely works. It's as if the whiny users don't pressure these devs enough.
Back in the day someone hacked Valve and leaked an unfinished build of Half-Life 2 on to the internet. In response to that the studio seriously considered whether to cancel the game alltogether. This sort of feeling is not uncommon among developers, as shown by the shutdown of the site.
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u/UnaverageLurker 14h ago
If I see someone doing something poorly I know I could do better that personally motivates me to do it better. I’m not saying everyone needs to feel that way.
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u/Kipzz 12h ago
The way I see it as a guy whose known plenty of peoples working on a variety of fan projects (and a few cases where some became official!), there is quite literally nothing stopping almost any member of any community, or even people who aren't members of a community, from reaching out to try and help with a fan project. I can't give you an over-under on how many projects are exclusionary's who are vehemently against adding new people to the team even if you've provided some kind of useful skill, though I know plenty of fan projects double as their own sub-communities that're always grasping for more people to post dumb memes on Discord with, but the simple act of reaching out should always be the absolute #1 first step to make.
If someone refuses to even try reaching out to a project that they know exists, regardless of if they're a slopper who'd likely get rejected or not, they're causing an issue for pretty much no reason. Because so much more work can be done together better faster and more efficiently than if one is alone. Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat's humanity!
So that's why sloppers are seen as lesser because 9999/10000 times they don't want to actually work with other people partially because they can't as they have no skills beyond a self-fellating "oh I can check the code!" after watching a 30 minute video on C+ coding
if that LOL, and partially because they have no desire to actually work with others in the first place because that'd somehow take away from the glory of being Guy Who Did [x].6
u/gibbersganfa 12h ago
they don't want to actually work with other people
This is it. They don't want pushback or friction, or to have to collaborate, they want sycophancy and clout, and AI empowers this narcissism. It's been so obvious when so many of them have churned out projects that they're not passionate about and won't stick with to make sure they're reliable and quality over the long term.
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u/Disastrous-Tone-7669 9h ago
It's been so obvious when so many of them have churned out projects that they're not passionate about and won't stick with to make sure they're reliable and quality over the long term.
This is the worst. I was playtesting a game that seemed promising. But every hour I played it, I noticed more and more glaring bugs. Including bugs that seemed like they could only exist because of an AI's carelessness, they didn't really make sense for a human to make.
But nevertheless I submitted my bug reports. And so did other people. And weeks passed, the dev did nothing to address any of the bugs or even say they have plans to address them. They would respond to people glazing them, but never the bugs.
After months and months of not updating their game despite the fact that it was getting good buzz for a solo dev game, suddenly they've announced a NEW project. It was clear to me that they had no idea how to code, didn't know how to fix their game's code, and decided to just start some new slop.
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u/UnaverageLurker 12h ago
I feel like the disconnect for parts of what you’re saying for me is that they should reach out because they can be a valuable asset, but also what they offer is useless at best. And I agree that what they mostly offer is useless to projects run by people with actual understanding and knowledge on the process.
So I don’t understand why it’s an issue if they want to play around with it on their own if what they’d actually be able to offer is subpar or useless. If anything for me I would think that would be preferable to trying to push their ideas onto the existing project.
I can also see and understand that people who want to take away glory by spiting a team or just for personal gratification are a problem and I’m sure that’s not uncommon. I appreciate people pointing that out as I did not really consider it at first even though thinking back I’ve even seen something similar in the melee community.
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u/Kipzz 12h ago edited 12h ago
Oh that's simple; I firmly believe sloppers deserve absolutely no respect and shouldn't be on any team to begin with. They're not an asset, they're an active drain on assets, both literally as using these services makes you complicit in their bullshittery and also skill-wise by virtue of having none hence the usage of said services in the first place. They're not "playing around with anything on their own" because "they" don't exist; everything written for them is done on Claude's pen, making them just as replaceable as the bot they're using in the first place. Because anyone can do anything they can do with the same prompt, meanwhile you give both me and a construction worker the exact same set of hammers and nails and blueprints for a deck and I sure as shit couldn't compete. In fact, maybe getting laughed at to their face would be a good inspiration to ask Claude to put it down for them! Probably not though, as mentioned in a different part of the chain sloppers are the pettiest dorks on the planet.
I'm mostly talking about the general idea behind fan projects and how, regardless of this specific case of port sniping, people should be reaching out to teams that already exist (if they know their exist which isn't always a given in this age of non-public Discord's) before they start work on their own. The meat of my post is mostly irrelevant to my irreverence for sloppers and moreso under the assumption that the people making ports are actually skilled at what they're doing. It's also part of why I specified humanity in relation to getting people together to do more stuff together better and faster, something a bot and thus slopper can't do. And it's shockingly common for people in fan spheres to both be working on the same thing and yet one won't reach out to the other, I see it a lot in manga for example. It's one things if ego's clash or there's a difference in direction, but at least two people headbutting means they actually met on some level; the olive branch was extended and thus rejected so the only option really is a split at that point. Which is it's own issue because typically when people have an ego about a fan project they can be either A. massive dicks B. attract other massive dicks C. they're not actually that good in the first place or god forbid D. they actually are good.
I guess the tl;dr is the confusion would come down to me mixing up generalizations and conflating my experience with a variety of fan projects over the decades with this specific example in port sniping, which thinking about it does seem like it basically only exists as an issue in this current vibecoded age and hasn't really been a major issue prior? So I was talking completely past you for probably half of my post, that's my bad.
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u/UnaverageLurker 11h ago
Yeah I’ve made my own pokemon fan projects for my personal use using the ChatGPT having no experience on coding. So to me this just comes off as unnecessarily mean spirited.
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u/Disastrous-Tone-7669 9h ago
Do whatever you want with your own personal time. But we're talking about projects that people are spending thousands of hours working on here.
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u/UnaverageLurker 9h ago
We’re talking about both personal projects and team projects. That’s kind of the point. People seem to have a lot of gripes with people making their own personal projects based off larger team projects.
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u/tangostwo 14h ago
My understanding is while the AI is getting these projects to the finish line in that they'll run, it's doing it in a way that makes the game a broken mess where you have just as much work to fix those as if you just did everything the right way to begin with.
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u/ToothlessFTW 15h ago
I know there's a lot of people who are just happy to see certain games "ported" or playable outside of certain consoles, and I'll admit it is really neat seeing these happen.
But like... the massive, massive, massive wave of absolute garbage that has been pumped through and overwhelmed the scene of ports and recompilations is just unbearable at this point. Like Encounter says here, most of these are rushed out completely half baked with little thought or effort put into them, and most of them end up abandoned in that state because the people behind them have no idea how to fix it, since they didn't code anything.
Recompilations used to be a rare event, and while it sucked having to wait longer, it meant when one did release it was the definitive way to experience that game, packed with community fixes hand-selected by a team who were usually experts at said game and knew exactly what to include, or what players would want. That's no longer the case, and we have so many of these half-baked ports that feel so hollow and rushed out.
Not to mention it's ruined a good handful of modding subreddits I used to enjoy being part of. The Switch modding scene is now dominated by posts begging for someone to shit out a port of whatever random game they thought of that day, with any interesting projects getting drowned out. VR subreddits are now overwhelmed with the laziest VR ports and acting as if the sheer fact you can play a game in VR automatically makes it the "best" way to play it.
Again, I can't deny some of it is interesting. But the absolute deluge of crap this thing is spewing out is just so exhausting. I cannot blame the dev here for losing interest.
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u/AntComfortable5970 15h ago
It's done a huge blow to the 3ds and pokemon romhacking communities too. Now like every third post is suspicious looking coming from a weird new account shyster.
Shit sucks.
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u/analmintz1 13h ago
Bro tell me about it. I’m a mod on r/pokemonromhacks and the sheer amount of twitter bro “recomp” bullshit we have to remove for being ai vibe code slop has more than 10x the last month.
It’s ruining the subreddit and putting everyone on guard as a bunch of people who know nothing about pokemon or hacking are just trying to make a quick buck/minute of fame from something.
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u/LycaonMoon 12h ago
Speaking as an individual who mods this subreddit and not speaking for the rest of the team: holy fuck there are so many zero-effort vibe-coded web apps that get submitted here all the time. Our Indie Sunday submissions have exploded as people use Claude to generate some barely-workable vertical slice and throw it up, every weekend, in bigger and bigger numbers. It is unbelievably frustrating that something we instituted to be an actual source of publicity for a publicity-starved group is being used as a way for vibe coders to put in zero effort and fish for clicks and wishlists.
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u/AntComfortable5970 12h ago
Damn I knew it was bad on other subs, wasn't sure it was that bad off here.
Stuff like this makes me laugh at some who've tried to sell AI as "Democratizing Creativity" when in many cases it's just obliterating the passion in passion projects and dissolving the sense of collaborative community in many spaces.
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u/ToothlessFTW 1h ago
Creativity has been "democratised" for years now.
Unity, Unreal, and even Godot are free. Free tutorials are all over the place. Free software exists that replicates professional stuff. You can make an entire game for free. Nobody is born with talent, everyone starts somewhere.
All AI does is enable lazy scam artists who want to shit out stuff in five minutes that they can make money off of, as opposed to actually being creative and making something themselves.
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u/gibbersganfa 12h ago
As someone who frequents that sub, I do just want to say thank you for the often-thankless job. It has been a good community, but you're totally right... very much on edge/guard lately. The vibe coders don't want community, they want clout, unfortunately.
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u/Echo_Monitor 15h ago
Even outside of gaming, it's done a lot of damage to open source software as a whole.
LLM-assisted development is a great thing. It allows you to do things much faster, it helps catch bugs and vulnerabilities, it makes annoying parts of development like writing test suites or boilerplate code effortless.
But on the flip side, it has flooded a lot of projects with pull requests entirely written by LLMs, with even the commit messages and PR descriptions being written by LLMs entirely, and the "authors" being absolutely clueless when you review their code and ask questions about why they did things a certain way or point out obvious errors.
Even the Linux kernel has just recently started talking about making contributions MORE DIFFICULT to reduce the flood of slop.
I've been dipping back into contributing to Jellyfin recently, and the amount of announcement for slop-based clients is staggering. Every day you have posts about a "new client with revolutionary feature", look inside and it's a day-old slopped project.
It's tiring, especially when you're on the "I am an actual programmer, I know what I'm doing and I design, review and refactor things myself" side of LLM usage for programming, because it feels discouraging to build things.
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u/firescreen 13h ago
I think I already know the answer, but what's even the impetus behind making AI PRs to open source projects? Are people just trying to get hired as a SWE, and they think having an all-green commit history on their git profile will make them seem more attractive?
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u/__Hello_my_name_is__ 11h ago
I imagine a lot of people genuinely think they're helping. They think it'd be cool to contribute, and now with AI, they can! Hooray!
They just don't realize that a) the actual work in AI coding is reviewing the code, which they don't know how to do properly, and b) everyone else is doing what they do, too, flooding the whole process to the point of uselessness.
I really don't think AI suddenly made a lot of people turn evil. They're just ignorant.
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u/JazzBoatman 9h ago
I would be less charitable and guess that at least a segment is guys trying to build a patreon earning as their get rich quick scheme.
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u/Accurate-Visual9793 12h ago
It's a mix - some deluded idiots think they're actually helping, some want that all-green on their Github profile page because it looks good to themselves/employers, some want the prestige of being a "Linux kernel dev" (you saw this on Open Source projects before LLMs with people only ever making documentation PRs), some have let their agents run amuck, some are just downright spiteful.
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u/Echo_Monitor 9h ago
A lot of the PRs I've seen, it's people going "I want this feature and I can't wait, so I made it myself entirely with Claude. Here you go, free code for you".
They think they're helping, but the code is often unmaintainnable, or the feature doesn't fit into the scope of anything.
If it involves any sort of API, you're fucked, it's a mess from top to bottom and usually doesn't follow any conventions.
You can often very quickly spot programmers who use LLMs as a sort of "employee" to write the code, but still do all the design work, the problem solving, etc and the vibecoders who simply ask for X and accept whatever comes out.
But that time spent spotting either sort of contributions is, from what I've seen, a large part of the issue. People maintaining open source have a limited amount of time per day/week, and any time spent dredging through the LLM hallucinations and bad PRs is time not spent reviewing the good ones and actually doing the maintaining on the software.
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u/Stormhunter117 7h ago
They may also want to have legitimacy on Github in order to infiltrate and push malware.
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u/theacodes 13h ago
Honestly "LLM-assisted development is a great thing" doesn't hold water. You enumerated several social and practical issues with it, but there's also the technical and cognitive issues. It actively atrophies the skills of software engineers while flooding every aspect of our work with overwhelming nonsense. It's a horrific thing, not a great one.
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u/JazzBoatman 9h ago
I think there's maybe something to be said for automating the truly boring slog shit that slows down creativity but it really is the case of if that penny can be found and successfully separated from the bathtub of vomit.
I could also just be becoming more downtrodden by the AI onslaught and losing my hardline negativity to all of it. idk.
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u/theacodes 9h ago
It's also just that we have tools and abstractions for the boring slog shit. We've been building them as an industry and yeah, sometimes it takes a while for us to build new tooling and automation, but at least we understand it and can build on it. Even if AI were perfect (and it literally can't be with this architecture), having it automate the slog & boilerplate means we get effectively frozen at our current state of advancement because it's what the AI knows and very few would have the motivation to do it anyway. It would be a fatal blow to software engineering, a field that is absurdly young and lacks the rigor, standards, and accountability seen in other engineering disciplines.
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u/Echo_Monitor 9h ago
It actively atrophies the skills of software engineers
I would argue that this heavily depends on how you use it.
I tend to do the design work, the problem solving and a lot of the actual work myself. It's simply the initial "write code" part of programming that I delegate, which is honestly the most minor (and, imo, boring) part of actually programming.
The brain work remains mine.
But then again, I only do software development for fun and to build things I want to actually use, nowadays, and I never plan on working in the industry again. From what I saw when I was working as a software engineer though, a LOT of the people in the industry already had atrophied skills on a lot of things, when they even bothered to learn about said things at all.
Anything around security, defensive programming, performance optimization, etc was a nightmare on most projects because most people either didn't care or actively avoided training these skills for some reason. You could fairly quickly separate the devs who cared and were skilled from the people who were simply cruising by because it was a well paying career.
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u/theacodes 9h ago
I am glad you've found a good way to utilize it. Unfortunately from my understanding the studies we have so far, there isn't really a way to use it that avoids skill atrophy. The more you use it, the more convinced you are that it works, the more you feel comfortable offloading, and the less capable you are of doing those things.
Also, yeah, there's plenty of Dogshit software engineers out there and there always have been. I don't think it's a good argument for or against AI.
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u/Echo_Monitor 9h ago
Oh, I'm not saying it's an argument for or against :)
If anything, AI has dramatically skewed the ratio of good to dogshit programmers to the dogshit category.
I also don't like everything about AI. I dislike the fact things aren't running locally, I dislike the data centers popping up and damaging the environment even more, I dislike the price of hardware becoming so high that I'm completely fucked if a single component of my 2019 machine kicks the bucket, I dislike the models being closed and having arbitrary censorship applied, etc.
I think if there's a future for the tech, it's in local, highly specialized open models. But I'd also be perfectly fine if we burned the entire thing tomorrow and went back to 90s or early 2000s tech, as at least back then tech was actually fun to use and work with, imo (but that may be part nostalgia for when I discovered computers).
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u/theacodes 8h ago
Yeah, agreed there. There's a lot of interesting things that LLMs are actually good at, but this ain't it.
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u/NeitherEchidna3491 3h ago edited 2h ago
Veteran developer here: Even if you completely ignore the code generation parts it is extremely powerful for being able to analyze logs & traces, helping to refine ideas before implementation, code review, it can help you find the correct syntax and APIs if you're struggling to remember something.
In practice though you're exactly right and it takes a huge amount of discipline to not just defer increasing amounts of responsibility to the LLM which is a slippery slope, I personally noticed detrimental effects on my cognitive abilities within weeks. I don't [personally] know anyone in the industry who hasn't capitulated and is letting LLMs write at least some significant % of the code they produce at this point but I'm sure they are still out there, bless them.
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u/theacodes 3h ago
I know plenty that haven't capitulated. Open source developers especially.
analyze logs & traces
This is the actual good use case for LLMs, shame it's been shoehorned into other nonsense.
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u/NeitherEchidna3491 2h ago
I know plenty that haven't capitulated
I only meant that I know personally, I'm sure they are still out there.
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u/Kipzz 13h ago
Is it becoming an issue for Pokemon romhacks??? That fucking sucks man. I figured we were getting into a golden era with stuff like Ghost Grey and Odyssey 2 coming out (<------ secondary who still hasn't played Odyssey 1), Heart&Soul, Seaglass's sequel that I'm blanking on the name of, and Coral might actually be releasing sometime this millennia. A friend of mine has been shilling Elysium to me too.
But knowing now I've gotta keep an eye out for slopshit actively suuuuuuuuuuucks.
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u/AntComfortable5970 13h ago
It's just what it is with any modding community. You have to be real careful with Skyrim right now, a lot of new front page SKSE mods dont do anything or just don't work
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u/napmouse_og 10h ago
Nexus added that "ai-assisted" and associated tags, but it honestly doesn't really help. Lots of big credible projects will get filtered out if you filter by the ai tags, and lots of non credible projects will try to weasel around it and only be tagged after a fight.
all over the Internet, infrastructure designed to handle human submissions is being forced to contend with a flood of low quality crap, because the barrier to submitting something dropped dramatically. It's a huge problem and one we've got to figure out if we want to keep all the creative or productive communities on the internet from buckling
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u/AntComfortable5970 10h ago
Yeah, and you have to filter out the Ai generated, Ai assisted, and AI media tags all separately to get rid of them all, and you have to do it every time. They really need a tick box for it like translations.
AI noise in general is gonna be a hurdle across many many fields in the future
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u/Hemlock_Deci 15h ago
I have seen so many useless half baked mods and romhacks and ports and everything in between these days that I have to sift through them with how low effort they are. I see a guy release a mod, then the beta, then updates within a couple weeks, and it's obviously unplayable (technically it is, but they're vibecoded and obviously held together by strings and chewing gum so ofc they're not proper ports). I have to fucking check that pokemon romhacks aren't vibecoded down to the dialogue now
And then there's "projects" like people porting GBA games to PC. why the fuck would you do that. It's not even any of the big games like Mario, it's stuff like idk, Need for Speed? I'm not even gonna think about this one I just give up.
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u/ToothlessFTW 15h ago
I saw someone "port" the Xbox 360 version of Arkham Asylum to PC.
You know, Arkham Asylum, the game that infamously never had a PC port?
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u/84theone 15h ago
I wouldn’t see an issue with someone doing that as a weird passion project/hobby, but just using an AI to shit it out at super speed makes it seem like a big dumb waste of energy.
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u/ToothlessFTW 15h ago
I'd agree, if someone is genuinely passionate about that then yeah, go nuts and it'd be kind of fascinating to see someone THAT into porting it.
But no, it's just some AI program throwing up a game that nobody wants, or needs, because Arkham Asylum is playable on every modern system and is playable on any PC made after 2009 with an official PC port. This benefits nobody and is now just taking up space on some server forever, because nobody is going to play it.
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u/CyraxxFavoriteStylus 14h ago
But no, it's just some AI program throwing up a game that nobody wants, or needs, because Arkham Asylum is playable on every modern system and is playable on any PC made after 2009 with an official PC port.
Maybe they did it because they personally wanted it. I had AI do a recomp of the 360 version of Dragon Age Origins because it has controller support and I wanted to play it with some technical improvements. Not the same situation with Arkham Asylum but there doesn't need to be a reason for an ai generated recomp besides just one person wanting it.
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u/NoExcuse4OceanRudnes 13h ago
lol that's not even the version with the exclusive joker.
(that made it on PC with a mod from the mac version) (I guess the exclusive contract said "Not on xbox or PC" rather than "only on ps3")
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u/Accurate-Visual9793 12h ago
The hardest part about Open Source has never been the code, it's persisting with a project. I couldn't hack it for more than 5 years with one, which was already way longer than most. If you get even the slightest bit of attention, it's another part-time job just managing it.
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u/JazzBoatman 9h ago
thinking about it - all the AI modding (i'll excuse actual programmers claiming to use it for labour saving on repetitive tasks) kinda stinks of the anti-intellectualism that was/is already being pushed in more conventional spaces.
Obviously I don't want people to be deterred from earnestly trying to make mods etc by the largest authors being treated untouchable but the AI slop direction is certainly not a good outcome.
(Also like, how many people in Memphis TN or similarly effected real geographic communities have had their health deteriorated by dipshits trying to port Super Mario Galaxy 1 for the upteenth time)
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u/archagon 6h ago
Also, it's only a matter of time before somebody inserts some ransomware or a crypto miner into one of these "ports".
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u/BP_Ray 53m ago
Im glad there are still people with sense and see through the slop.
It feels like Im taking crazy pills sometimes with the way other subreddits have turned out in regards to this shit. People have been acting like decompliations, fan pc ports derived from decomps, and recompliations didnt exist prior to AI... like, what? The tools AI is using to do many of the more functional vibe coded comps were made by humans.
Most of these AI recomps/decomp ports arent even being played, It's just like 20 people in the decomp subreddits going "Wow, this is so cool (as a thing that exists)!" and then never touching it, with no one verifying the actual quality, because most of the time It's utter trash.
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u/DarkCapybara 13h ago
Vibecoded VR mods are especially funny for me. It's hard to find a decent VR game these days that's not some mobile game slop and because of their hunger they turned to AI slop and defend, like their lifes depend on it, that it's ok to use LLMs, because these mods wouldn't exist otherwise. Well, they'll probably cease to exist anyway once "dev" loses interest or LLM will stop working, assuming these mods work in the first place (I didn't check), but... have fun while it lasts, I guess?
Some of these vibecoded mods already either don't exist, or it doesn't seem they're updated. Example: original repo of Halo 3's VR mod is set to private, there's a new repo, which is probably a fork or a copy, that says "no human audited this, do it yourself", last commit 3 months ago. Someone already forked it and Codex is the author of the last commit, so very likely vibe coding too.
Selfhosted subreddit already had their dramas with Huntarr and Booklore that were vibecoded the former had enormous security flaws (e.g. unauthenticated requests), someone provided examples and "dev" (quotes, because this person clearly had no idea what they were doing) obliterated all repos and themselves from the internet, or in the case of the latter, "dev" was an enormous asshole, contributors started to leave and when someone exposed it, main "dev" decided to be an even bigger asshole.
These guys are done with LLMs and don't want to touch anything that was created with them. I guess other subreddits need their own drama.Meanwhile I'm just sitting in the back with popcorn and reading AI boosters' arguments that it wouldn't exist without AI and it's ok to use it. Sure, if you want something hastily put together...
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u/omniclast 13h ago
As someone OOL - how does the profusion of slop hurt the people doing legitimately good work? Is it an issue of not being able to find it over the noise, or is there a financial element with patreon dollars getting spread too thin or something like that? I would hope there would be a way for that kind of work to still rise to the top of the pile
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u/darkszero 10h ago
decomp.dev worked by allowing anyone to just add their repository and it'd show up. It's fine because getting a decomp anywhere was really hard. It had a filter of 0.5% matched to clean up the junk of someone trying and getting nowhere.
Now every day someone adds a new project, vibes garbage and it shows up as 40%+ or even 100%. Then you get curious, click it and it's just a mess. A single file that includes asm and says it's matched. Every single function named by address, and the body is just pointer math. The list goes and goes, it's code almost equivalent to a disassembler.
If the project listing is full of these, it's worthless. And spending the time filtering these is moderation work that no-one wants to do, especially because every time that was done the owner would then complain. (encounter said that apparently most of the time they would actually fix stuff and learn, but then it takes even more time teaching).
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u/mikki-misery 11h ago
Is it an issue of not being able to find it over the noise
This. If there's hundreds of "decomps" put out per week, how are you supposed to know which ones are good? Some games even have multiple "decomps"
A proper decomp takes a lot of time and effort, and more often than not, passion for the game being decomped. Claude can shit out something that boots in a weekend, with nothing actually being decompiled, then it's thrown on GitHub and called a decomp anyway with zero effort or passion behind it. The oversaturation is in turn starting to make the word "decomp" be synonymous with "slop", so it's no surprise that people doing actual reverse engineering don't exactly feel happy about it.
Not only that, but reverse engineering something takes significant skill. Even with AI it's not that simple. But a lot of these people are convinced that they can do the same task as an expert using AI, even seeming gleeful about it, completely unaware that it's a different thing entirely. It's like bringing a printer to a painting class, thinking printing is the same as painting, not being able to understand that some people paint for the love the game, while still saying "you'll get left behind"
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u/astrogamer 10h ago
A very simple comparison is the anime scene. Back in the 00s, while subbed anime releases were slow, a bunch of groups were in to making the subtitling look fancy, with lyrics for songs, translating written test and including explainers for turns of phrase. It wasn't perfect translation but they got good at presentation that evolved into the initial run of Crunchyroll subs. If you look for anime nowadays, chances are you are just finding the official stream version just on a torrent site. The art of fansub basically died since the main goal of the subs were to spread any anime in the subber's main language and almost no one translates anime, even as current subs have a bunch of errors and issues showing multiple people talking and translating text on screen.
A similar thing is going to happen with recomps where people don't bother trying to recomp games since the effort has been done with AI. The AI recomps are also largely done by people without a keen eye for detail and don't know how to actually debug so they will remain broken, even if a proper developer could fix it.
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u/Rayuzx 12h ago
Mostly the first one. It's tough to put legitimate passion into a passion project, when the slop project gets more attention for simply coming out first. Part of the reason why people do these kind of things (especially for free) is due to the pride and satisfaction that comes with be the one to make such a milestone, and AI slop dilutes that.
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u/omniclast 12h ago
Ah ok, that makes sense about it being a milestones thing. Less incentive to take time on a good decomp if there are already 10 crappy ones out
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u/JazzBoatman 9h ago
Personally, I would definitely attest to the 2nd one less aswell. When AI art was on it's original "legitimacy" upswing (as in, trying to compete with actual artists) there was plenty of posting about creators feeling worse because AI big boob art patreons were raking in thousands of dollars a month.
Doesn't help that guys willing to part with money for their Claude subscriptions are also more likely to drop $5 a month on AI big boobs art and similar (and more likely to have the disposable income to do it too).
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u/kantong 12h ago
It's very demoralizing to see a project that has had years of work put into it by hand, then to have a slopdev come in and 'finish' it as the post describes. I suspected things like this would eventually happen. In the end its the slopdevs that will be hurt because as everything closes off their codebase because of abuse and other AI-related reasons, AI will have less real data to train on.
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u/FZeroRacer 14h ago
I've colloquially called this phenomenon 'software clickbait'. These AI assisted (or often, fully slopped) decomps often do not even function properly. They have tons of bugs, they're not accurate and as someone else mentioned they often just steal emulator code outright. It's emulation with extra steps, with the stupidest people latching onto the term decomp to try and get clicks on youtube or fluff up their portfolio.
A great example was that there was a recent Zelda 2 'remake' which I shan't be linking here but it's an example of all the worst parts of these style of slopcomps. It's endlessly frustrating to see them do the equivalent of mass littering as they shit out these half-baked decomps and then move onto the next.
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u/FUTURE10S 12h ago
Yeah, it's not a decomp unless it compiles back to the original one for one. Emulation with extra steps is an accurate way to call it.
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u/EmptyJumpLow 7h ago
A great example was that there was a recent Zelda 2 'remake' which I shan't be linking here but it's an example of all the worst parts of these style of slopcomps.
This one is so stupidly frustrating because Hoverbat's ZIIAOL/ZALiA has existed for many years at this point and is a prime example of a feature-rich, lovingly crafted & curated remaster/port.
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u/BotchedMiracle 13h ago
I don’t know which ones you’ve tried but I’ve sampled around 5 so far that are labeled ai assisted or mostly ai in quiver, and they work fairly well for what they are. Some show no benefits over emulator, but others shine.
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u/Rayuzx 12h ago
Yeah, as a fan of Pro Wrestling games. the trilogy of "vide coded" projects that I've been keeping up with shows the full spectrum:
First of all they're all free, which from an outsider, that doesn't seem too bad, but when the modding scene of wrestling games is includes a $100+ romhack of a PS2 game (for you can pay $15 for a highly compromised "standard" version), and modern games having tools that are integral to both make and use mods not only locked behind a Patreon subscription, the tools having DRM to prevent piracy (it checks your Discord to see if you have the role of an active subscriber in the main server), but most modders locking their stuff behind their own individual Patreon pages, you know how much of a blessing that is.
Smackdown vs Raw 2007:While an update slated to be coming soon™, as it stands today, it's a classic example of a "pump and dump" that's barley above emulation if at all.
WWE '13: Even if it was a barely functional port, it's existence would still be a godsend because there isn' t much alternatives to play the game on PC (RPCS3 crashes as soon as a match starts, Xenia runs the game at a silky smooth 8 FPS, and while Dolphin works perfectly fine, you're coping with the heavily compromised Wii port). But even then, things have been going on swimmingly, and the person behind the project is constantly putting out updates.
Smackdown vs Raw 2011: Pretty much everything you can ask for, then some. Runs great, full mod support, the dev managed to fully re-enable all the online functionality, and they even gotten an android port running on.
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u/firescreen 13h ago
fluff up their portfolio
I'm curious if this has actually helped anyone land a job. I feel like things would fall apart as soon as a technical interviewer drilled you on your process for making the decomp.
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u/MiddleConscious5951 10h ago
I kinda doubt it ever does with how much of a nightmare it is to get hired in tech with the AI arms race today.
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u/ToxicBuddhismFanboy 11h ago
If I put on my tin foil hat I wonder if businesses and IP holders are just flooding these communities with non- or barely-functional slop to hinder progress and discoverability.
Even Nintendo would release modified ROMs of brand new games that would slowly become impossible to play. I remember playing Pokemon Black/White before the US release and the ROM was modded so you don't get any Pokeballs and your starter Pokemon wouldn't level up lol.
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u/Marxvile 10h ago
That wasnt a modified rom I thought but an in built anti piracy in all roms that got found and bypassed but I could be wrong
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u/kikimaru024 13h ago
r/macgaming has been turned into a cesspool of AI slop “ports”.
It’s really sad considering how cool & efficient Mac hardware has become.
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u/Satanicube 12h ago
What’s tragic too is like, even the retro Apple scene is plagued with AI slop. Not even just the modern stuff! It’s to the point where I can’t trust anything new that’s released for old Apple systems because it feels like 80% of the time someone just threw clod at it and called it a day. :(
Hurts double because the retrocomputing space for many besides myself was a place where we could run to avoid the horrors of modern tech yet so many are hell bent on inviting it in anyway.
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u/Maurhi 14h ago
The same problem that every single homebrew community has now, but for the kids they only care if they can play new things on their machine of choice, I'm not even entirely sure that they actually play the things they cheer, I've seen sooo many post with dozens of comments praising the vibecoder to then see a couple comments calling out the slop doesn't even work.
I don't even remember the last time i saw something interesting in all the communities i used to follow, it has completely killed my interest in most of them, and I've stopped following most of them already. At least there are a couple that prohibits all AI content, and it's really refreshing not seeing an endless stream of crap every day.
Kids seem to be happy with their slop, we'll see how it goes when most of the real devs get tired and stop doing worthwhile stuff. I for certain wouldn't have put all that effort even before the AI craze with all the ungrateful children out there, now it looks 1000x worse.
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u/flippingisfun 15h ago
But a bunch of gormless morons told me that AI slop “decomps” would only bolster the people who actually knew what they were doing what happened?
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u/EnjoyingMyVacation 14h ago
that is exactly what happened, as the article says
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u/burritoteam4000 13h ago
That is not what happened, it caused a bunch of opportunists to steal their work and push them out, as the article says.
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u/Rayuzx 12h ago edited 10h ago
Both concepts aren't mutually exclusive. It's simultaneously bolstering legitimate work, and it's enabling dozens of slop projects.
It's like when Xbox first open the floodgates of indie games (or Steam once Greenlight started to become a thing years later), for every Castle Crashers or Super Meat Boy, there were about 4 dozen low effort games that barely functioned.
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u/OdoTheBoobcat 6h ago
steal their work and push them out
No, it's not 'stealing' if people are forking appropriately-licensed open-source repos. I'm sick of these sanctimonious, self-important devs wanting to roleplay open-source/free software but getting all pissed off when people are taking their stuff and using it as they will.
That's how this works, that's how this has ALWAYS worked. It's a GOOD thing, it's the fucking POINT of this kind of setup. ALL of these projects are built on the back of a ton of other open-source libraries/codebases. You do NOT get to control or gatekeep how this stuff is used when you put it out this way.
If these slop-coded copies suck then what's the issue? You can be the ones doing it RIGHT, and if you're doing it right your version will be the one people actually use long-term.
If the people "finishing" the project are doing a better or faster job than you? Then boo-fucking-hoo, the problem's on your end. This is something you have to accept when doing free/open-source projects - sometimes people just do a better job than you, don't need to get bent out of shape, use it as an opportunity to learn.
This just seems to be another thinly veiled attempt at arbitrarily exercising control over others, which is unfortunatley SUPER common in open source projects. You see a lot of super toxic devs on these projects, I don't find any of this surprising.
I will admit I'm not super abreast of these projects - if people are breaking licenses(ACTUAL stealing) then yeah that sucks and is bad, but that's not what this seems to be.
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u/FlowerMindless2594 1h ago
Can I suggest that you might be missing the point? We’re witnessing a collapse of purpose. These are video game decompilation projects. This is not “important stuff”. These projects are hobbies for people, they give them something to care about, and people to care about it with.
Everything you said can be true, but I think we’re losing our sense of humanity in this whole endeavor? I am sympathetic to the person who dedicated their time and energy to a project, who then sees someone complete that work with considerably less investment and less work.
I also just want to mention that these projects are often open source because the people working on them are inviting community. They want others to recognize their work, to join them, to contribute. To create a place for themselves.
The point is not to decomp. every single game perfectly. If you have everything you have nothing.
I just wish we would stop rushing to be emotionless pragmatists and recognize real harm where it’s occurring. Your message reads very bitter to me, but maybe this message will appeal to you in some way.
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u/OdoTheBoobcat 42m ago
The point is not to decomp. every single game perfectly. If you have everything you have nothing.
Totally agree and I myself pursue hobbyist development in my spare time as I enjoy noodling on things that don't need to be mercilessly optimized. That's not the issue.
The issue is these hobbyists throwing shit fits because other people WANT to optimize, throwing nonsense accusations of 'stealing' code that was literally put out to be shared. This fundamentally irritates me as it is an attempt to demand control over others, something I find utterly repulsive and directly contrary to the spirit of open source software.
I also just want to mention that these projects are often open source because the people working on them are inviting community. They want others to recognize their work, to join them, to contribute. To create a place for themselves.
I am failing to understand how any of this, in any way, is impeded by other people pursuing development based on their work? If the problem is that the derived works are worse - then do it better, and take pride in doing so.
If the problem is that the derived works are doing it BETTER then, well, I don't know what to tell you. You don't get to start a hobby for the purpose of others 'recognizing your work' and then get mad when other people do it better and are recognized instead. If these devs egos are so fragile that they can't self-motivate into tackling interesting projects they will have trouble soliciting sympathy from me.
I just wish we would stop rushing to be emotionless pragmatists and recognize real harm where it’s occurring. Your message reads very bitter to me, but maybe this message will appeal to you in some way.
I fundamentally disagree - the harm is NOT real, it is imagined. It's pure, raw ego at the heart of all of this. It's people being unable to motivate themselves and getting mad that the world isn't applauding them as much as they feel they deserve. I do not respect this.
I do not consider myself bitter. I am simply, in my opinion, rightfully resentful at people in hobbyist spaces continually gatekeeping and attempting to exert undue control over others. I will not apologize for this.
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u/Fit_Plate623 11h ago
That all just comes across as weirdly salty to me. Dude could have just said "I want to do something else with my time because this is going in directions that don't interest me.", but no, he wants to scuttle the boat and forbid anyone else from picking up where he left off. I see no reason the community they built can't persist without him and then they could make their own rules about how they want to proceed.
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u/ilovefuckingpenguins 8h ago
Lots of devs are self-important
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u/OdoTheBoobcat 6h ago
Especially open-source contributors, lots of them are crazy toxic and perpetually big-for-their-britches. Very common to want to exercise an inordinate amount of control both in the development and use of these projects, which is the antithesis of the open-source mentality IMO
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u/nanapancakethusiast 7h ago
The same SWEs made fun of writers and artists and musicians for being upset AI was stealing their lunch. And yet here they are “taking the soccer ball home” as it were.
Boo hoo.
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u/dirty1809 5h ago
Every SWE I know who does it professionally has been using AI in some capacity for a long time now. It’s definitely a minority who are upset about AI coding at this point. And the ones who are upset are the same people who were upset about AI art
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u/TalkingRaccoon 8h ago
So he's taking his ball and running home, instead of leaving it up as a resource for actual devs? What a baby
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u/kabiskac 6h ago
"What happens now?
decomp.dev will continue to track existing projects and serve individual project pages and historical data, but the main index and adding new projects are disabled."
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u/degenerich 16h ago
“Sloptubers and subreddits like [r/decomps](r/decomps) have done immense damage here, freely using "decomp" to mean "PC port".”
This part has bothered me since the start of this whole craze. Decompilations of a game’s code has so many use cases ranging from modding to speedrunning research. But it’s become increasingly clear that, to the layman, decomp = PC port, and that must be extremely frustrating to people spending their free time doing this work.