r/CrusaderKings • u/PDX-Trinexx • 1d ago
News Update 1.20.1
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/update-1-20-1.1945305/140
u/Mastercal40 1d ago
The AI now only revokes titles for a rival or wrong-faith vassal when doing so would not incur Tyranny.
I wonder why they did this?
168
u/DeanTheDull Democratic (Elective) Crusader 1d ago
It was a cause of death spirals for the more tolerant faiths that vassalize via holy wars. Because they generated tyranny, they'd alienate their own religious base as much as the conquered. This would lead to vassal uprisings, neutering the realm once the conqueror/high-dread ruler changed.
17
u/Asartea 1d ago
Isn't revoking rival or wrong faith vassal titles normally free of Tyranny anyway as long as the faith is evil enough? I wonder if there was a weird edge case that led to AI rulers gaining too much tyranny
52
u/DanLynch Ireland 1d ago
The obvious edge case is those faiths that are relatively tolerant of other faiths.
132
u/OrangeJush 1d ago
- Editing the mainline rite now requires proposed tenets to be at least Very Popular.
FINALLY. Ecumenical councils finally become relevant now since it was surprisingly easy to get puppet Popes and just blatantly turn Roman Catholicism into a bunch of sun-worshipping cannibals. At least this way it means you have to work to Evangelize your preferred tenets and spread them across the main rite's followers as it should be. I'm honestly floored it took them an update to figure this out.
40
u/NatalieIsFreezing Immortal 1d ago
I managed to convince a council to endorse Adoptionism, Gnosticism, and to abolish the Papacy. Hilarious, but even proposing one of those should get me burned at the stake as a heretic.
8
u/CadianGuardsman 1d ago
Honestly I feel like if something is market as a heresy and you advocate in favour of it at a council and loose... you should be seized and burned afterwards if you're a priest. And a secular ruler should be excommunicated till you recant (and give the pope a generous donation that is totally not a bribe say... your youngest son, one daughter and a generous gold donation?)
83
u/Zombox3000 1d ago
White peace nerf, editing mainrite nerf, EC having an opponent? Playable game
Good changes overall, I also wonder what they meant by „short time until SnS”. Maybe first half on November even
104
u/PDX-Trinexx 1d ago
Every update has to account for the updates before it, so BGA changes mean that Silk & Silver has to do a "merge back" and rebase onto the latest BGA patch.
It's far easier and more straightforward from the development side if we target the same specific version for everything, so if two updates are fairly close to each other on the schedule then we'll scuttle the earlier one and work on the later one exclusively.
tl;dr: devs are happier when they don't have to juggle multiple updates at once
16
u/El_Specifico No Ironman, Mods Only, Final Destination 1d ago
Yeah, that all makes sense. Thanks for the transparency!
1
u/Suoclante 1d ago edited 1d ago
So….when’s the release date for Silk and Silver? 👉👈🥺
Edit: also, you guys have been putting in good work! I appreciate the new content and the communication!
-15
u/WetAndLoose 1d ago
This combined with confusing customers by advertising both DLCs at the same time has hopefully convinced you guys to perhaps not put both into full production at once.
33
u/PDX-Trinexx 1d ago
We always have multiple updates in full production. We typically don't schedule them for release around the same time, but there's a steady pipeline of new content.
11
u/janilx 1d ago
I mean this first "big" patch since the BGA update took almost 2 weeks so i wouldn't hold my breath
14
u/Zombox3000 1d ago
Well, I’m personally convinced that most failures (besides terrible balance, they tend do to that) are attributed to SnS scale and release date, and they just confirmed that it’s near (or I’m just coping)
Why they decided to release first BGA, then release SnS that reworks entire economy, I don’t know
2
u/ChohacI3 Byzantium 1d ago
early November would be my guess too, just to avoid GTA. So maybe we see an announcement next week?!
81
u/Metrinome 1d ago
Assume Conqueror's Mantle got the expected nerf. Could someone take a look in the game files and see what the exact requirements are now?
44
u/doctorsandwich8 CK3 Wizard 1d ago
It's the same requirements as the adventurer decision, but it costs 3000 piety, and you can substitute one of the requirements with ambitious/max devotion.
75
u/IvarBlacksun 1d ago
- Guido's Guiding Light stays achievable after Guido dies, for a game started as Guido.
Thank God!
179
u/Different-Produce870 Eunuch 1d ago
Request White Peace now requires the war to have lasted at least two years.
Damn, I was literally just about to take advantage of this exploit in my current save to convert an unpressed claim into a pressed claim.
86
u/General-Friend8343 1d ago
There's an interaction with the Pope to endorse a claim and change it from unpressed to pressed
27
u/Different-Produce870 Eunuch 1d ago
Currently playing a welsh duke early game. He's way too far out of diplomatic range.
84
u/Grilled_egs 1d ago
The pope being out of diplo range for a catholic duke feels a bit wrong
37
u/General-Friend8343 1d ago
Agreed, HOF should have a special status. All roads lead to Rome, after all
42
u/Munificent-Enjoyer 1d ago
Strictly speaking the HoF does, but in the first bookmark the Pope is not HoF, merely head of a rite because Chalcedonian Christianity starts HoF-less, the Great Schism makes Pope the head of the Catholic faith (and if you prevent the schism you can make yourself the HoF of Christendom)
15
4
3
u/Flipz100 Sea-king 1d ago
I somewhat agree but also I feel like there has to be a reasonable limit. Someone inland on the edges of Christendom could send a representative to the Pope, but if communication takes a year or longer round trip, not including any amount of time it actually takes to meet with the HOF, then it feels like making any request would be irrelevant to either side by the time it became effective, which does mirror how it actually worked in like Scandinavia IRL.
8
u/Grilled_egs 1d ago
Yeah unless you're in like, India or beyond, you should absolutely have access to most interactions with the pope. And even if you're in Japan some things ought to be feasible.
Ultimately it boils down to an issue with using the same distance as a limit for challenging people to duels and having any interaction at all. You could make it an adventure inspiration style deal if realism is the worry.
10
u/MisterDutch93 1d ago
This must’ve changed then, because before the DLC launched I was playing as a Catholic daimyo in Japan and I was able to request money from the Pope or ask for indulgences. Diplo range wasn’t even a consideration (the pope still resided in Rome too).
2
3
u/trianuddah 1d ago
Isn't that how insular Christianity developed?
3
u/Grilled_egs 1d ago
Kind of, but that happened between the 400s and 700s. I'm fine with the pope being less accessible if Rome gets sacked again I guess
13
u/Entire-Leather6962 1d ago
Archbishops can do the same, try and see if you can ask it to the Bishop of Canterbury
117
u/No_Cauliflower_81 1d ago
Will this update stop Catholicism from randomly becoming a cannibalistic matriarchal religion?
170
u/PDX-Trinexx 1d ago
That's the intent. AI should be far more reluctant to push through extremely divergent changes, and the player should find it more inconvenient (but not impossible) to do so themselves.
19
13
u/garlicpizzabear 1d ago
Is there any plans to make it possible for secular rulers with theocratic HoFs to have some say in how their rite develops?
Currently, unless you are specifically Christian in which you can sponsor concuils to modify only the mainline rite of your faith if it has enough church regions, there is no possibility for a secular ruler to influence their rite in any way if it has a theocratic HoF. This makes ever choosing a theocratic HoF for a custom rite always a straight downgrade in control when choosing beetwen the three options as there exists minimal to no steering.
27
28
u/Coopthecool 1d ago
Did they fix the college of Cardinals disappearing when Rome is taken by a non catholic/heresy?
21
u/Divinetedrius Bastard 1d ago
I had an annoying issue as a Nestorian Emperor of Persia in my game. I had taken all of Mesopotamia but the head of faith (located in Baghdad) was still vassalized to the Abbasids. This update fixed it! He became my vassal as soon as I booted up the game.
18
u/HemlockMartinis 1d ago
Koblenz is now held by Theutgaud of Trier in 867, with Bertolf succeeding him in 869 as in Trier.
The game is finally playable now.
22
u/Moaoziz HRE 1d ago edited 1d ago
"A new AI Pope no longer recasts a core tenet of a rite a player edited."
Sounds good but does this also apply to the head of rite?
If yes, that would really fix my biggest gripe with the DLC. It sucks that I have to spend a shitload of piety to create a custom rite that’s tailor-made for how I want to RP, only to have it changed a couple of months later by some bishop who didn’t like it.
11
u/The_Bionic_Seahorse 1d ago
I hope the issue with not being able to upgrade your Cathedral is fixed. Had a bug where I couldn't upgrade my estate with the gothic cathedral because I couldn't build it in that county. Thought building it elsewhere would fix it but it did not.
Abandoned my run due to that and just not being able to turn my branched rite to the main rite
10
u/The_Old_Shrike Misdeeds from Iceland to Nippon 1d ago
Fixed a softlock when a landless Noble Family title holder becomes independent
I don't get it. Is it a fix for adventurers getting a game over when procuring land?
16
1
14
u/MysticPing 1d ago
Lots of fixes but no mention of the AI being unable to recreate a destroyed patriarchate/ clerical region :(
5
u/Aiseadai Persian Empire 1d ago
Independent kings and emperors of at least Paragon of Virtue Piety can now create Holy Sites in their realm when the county follows their faith and their Head of Faith has a positive opinion of them.
Does that mean the issue of lay clergy no head of faith religions not being able to create holy sites is now fixed?
5
5
u/lordwinterberry 1d ago
Will the pope still declare holy wars on heresies that make humongous papal states? They've taken over Finland, Sampi, and Norway and I am scared
5
u/Odd-Question8056 1d ago
Literally me, everytime I zoom out. Sometimes I believe they seize to exist if I just don't look in that area and load them in on my screen 😂
21
u/veganzombeh 1d ago edited 1d ago
Are you planning to change mass conversion great projects so that it's actually possible to do what the Rimbert bookmark description says you can?
It says you can covert pagans but there's effectively no way to do that.
9
u/DeanTheDull Democratic (Elective) Crusader 1d ago
Hm? I've been playing Rimbert, and you absolutely can do the conversion projects in the appropriate phases. They're not quick at 2 decades, but they're also not the only way for Rimbert to be pushing his church influence into heathen lands, and they are well suited as long-term checkmates against the tribal conferations you can't bully.
Converting the pagans with Rimbert entails a lot of holy wars, direct or indirect, so that you can use the quicker expand clerical region interaction over them while the top ruler converts.
12
u/veganzombeh 1d ago
Mass Conversion is only possible in provinces bordering your realm so it's impossible to effectively convert deep into Scandinavia without taking their land as far as I can tell.
Obviously you can use holy wars to conquer Scandinavia but that's not how the Christianisation of Scandinavian happened IRL.
7
u/DeanTheDull Democratic (Elective) Crusader 1d ago
IRL Christianization of Scandanavia also also wasn't hard-carried in a single lifetime by Rimbert.
In the game, you can use a lot of different tools, not just mass conversion projects (or holy wars). Mendicate Preachers personal tenet to convert local rulers, abduct-and-educate/convert future heirs of the region, and so on. Rimbert is built to support a lot of scheming and manipulation.
For spreading the realm to get borders to get the project specifically, you're encouraged to use the church succession on newly converted rulers in the clerical region you've expanded to them, so that you can keep pushing the borders.
4
u/veganzombeh 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sure, it's technically possible, but do you not think it's an issue that you're suggesting various cheesy existing methods rather than any mechanics from the Christianity DLC? The new Mass Conversion project should IMO be for exactly this purpose
0
u/DeanTheDull Democratic (Elective) Crusader 1d ago
I don't think they're particularly cheesy, so no. I also disagree that Mass Conversion should be 'exactly for this purpose,' if 'this purpose' is 'convert an entire region from afar with no meaningful restrictions or counter-play.'
You have a number of tools available to prostlytize scandanavia. The Rimbert bookmark destription neither says nor implies that the mass conversion project in particular is the tailored tool to do so.
5
u/hazy_dainty 1d ago
You prevented theocratic rulers from converting to faiths like confucianism seemingly to prevent them from being theocratic rulers of that faith; but if you usurp the Byzantine after the emperor becomes the Patriarch and then restore Rome with hellenism, all the theocratic vassals convert to hellenism and remain theocratic.
Anoyingly, it's still tyrannical to revoke the titles and they can't be forced into admin government, regardless of lay clergy or temporal appointment.
4
u/StromboliRex 1d ago
-Emperors can restore Backwater counties, and the AI now takes the decision.
Finally Greece and Bulgaria won’t be backwaters when I restore the Roman Empire!
9
3
u/Independent_Cow_6611 1d ago
Yay. Now I can return to working out how to turn my kids into Cardinals as a secular ruler.
11
u/Imanmar 1d ago
This is it until the next dlc? I mean I'm okay with that given how massive the next one is, but we still don't have a release date on it. I'd really appreciate something on that front in the coming days. Maybe next dev diary on it?
36
u/xLukarioNx Formables #1 Fan 1d ago
At worst late November, I think. PDX isn't likely to do a December release given post-release support + Christmas holiday period.
11
-1
u/adrauglikeyou 1d ago
this dlc just came out and they’re releasing fixes for it still and you’re already complaining about no news on the next one?
It’s coming out this year. Calm down.
3
u/-Morsmordre- 1d ago
No mention of the dynasty head being unable to claim a title. Ugh
2
u/Ilevus 1d ago
I reported this bug on the PDX forums a few days ago. Let's hope it gets fixed in another update soon.
2
u/-Morsmordre- 22h ago
I think I saw that if it's the one where a guy said he made a mod to fix it. Unfortunately his mod didn't fix it for me :(
2
u/Sigurdr_Curufinwe 1d ago
when will the mu'tazila return to the game? just make them a sunni faith. in an later islam dlc the zaydis should also have some mu'tazila flavour and tenets.
3
u/Derron116 Pax Romana 1d ago
Is there a fix for estates not being given or the division of China causing game overs for the landless nobles?
3
1
u/braskooooo 1d ago
Did they fix the fact we couldn't choose what to ask when we petition our liege ?
9
5
u/Sbotkin Hellenism FTW 1d ago
The patch notes are right there man, open them
-2
u/braskooooo 1d ago
I didn't have time to read it that's why I asked to people who already've read it. And I was 90% convinced that I wouldn't find anything about this in a patch notes concerning the latest DLC
1
u/TheSGisDown 1d ago
Why does commiting adultery add sodomite and incestuous trait ? And granting title option is gone , it only shows grant appointment, even as a feudal lord when I give a title, the vassal becomes administrative
1
u/EntertainmentOk3659 1d ago
"A newly appointed pope who is not head of faith no longer incorrectly updates the main rite after the great schism".
This is about the papacy title always overtaking the mainline rite depsite under a new hof right?
Cuz it was really annoying when I united the christian world under the coptic papacy. But my rite became a heretical branched rite because the papacy title kepts changing mainline rite to whatever their current rite is.
Then in some scenarios the rite of the actual head of faith doesn't overtake the mainline rite. Forcing me to get an antipope. But you can only challenge head of faith if the current head of faith is landed. A bunch of shenanigans to replace the mainline.
It made me temporarily put down this game.
Its funny the muslim gameplay is much better then the christian. Because temporal hof is much more streamlined.
1
u/Haradion_01 1d ago
I thought I was experiencing a bug where the Great Schism caused a bunch of Non-Cleric adventurers to take over diocese, but unless I am blind I cant see anything about it here?
2
-1
u/somecallmethrowaway 1d ago
The white peace change is good, but why not actually make it more interact-able? Give us the ability to refuse it and risk excommunication, bribe the pope to let you keep going, spend piety to convince him of your cause, etc? This just feels like a bandaid fix to an annoyance.
22
u/camocat9 1d ago
"Players can now comply with or defy a Church-imposed white peace, and the AI only requests one when needed."
5
u/somecallmethrowaway 1d ago
Welp that's what I get for only skimming the top "Game Balance" section of the patch notes. I guess not being able to refuse was a bug, and not a game balance issue.
1
u/WhenDiplomacyFails 1d ago
Is your old save bricked or will it still work? I've poured a lot of love into my holy brittany with 4 holy sites.
12
1
u/nightwyrm_zero 1d ago
The Create Holy Site button is no longer available without By God Alone.
So creating new holy sites was always meant to be a DLC exclusive? I guess I'll have to buy the DLC now...
1
u/ButGravityAlwaysWins 1d ago
So I am new to the game and I don’t realize that you apparently need to launch outside of steam so that mods don’t update and finish you run on the old version whenever a new version comes out. So the run I’ve been playing and really enjoying was totally broken by 1.2.
I figured I was going to buy BGA anyway so I did and I started a new run, even though it made me sad to get rid of the old one.
Then I got curious and so I dumped out a saved file in debug mode and started playing around to figure out what was broken.
I fixed 90% of the problems with my old save just by looking at changes and writing some python scripts.
I do not understand why there isn’t a converter that you provide when a new major release happens. I had never looked at a save file before and by myself in three hours while drinking a beer and watching TV in the background, I was able to do most of it.
-4
u/genericauthor 1d ago edited 1d ago
I didn't notice anything about reducing pagan reformation cost.
Edit: I really shouldn't try to edit a post sitting in my car in the bright sunlight.
13
u/Moaoziz HRE 1d ago
Isn't it this?
"Unreformed Heads of Rite now use the creation and reformation cost calculation rather than the rite-editing calculation."
2
u/genericauthor 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ahh, thanks.
Edit: Sadly, while the piety cost to reform a pagan faith is now accurate, it's still super high.
308
u/the_shaggy_DA Byzantium Revolt Revolt Revolt 1d ago
- “Players can now comply with or defy a Church-imposed white peace, and the AI only requests one when needed.”
Great! No more conqueror invasion CBs being brought to a screeching halt because the Pope said so.