Alternate PvE Proposal: Temporary Ceasefire map condition (see caption for details and reasoning)

[u/travhimself]

THE IDEA

Create a Temporary Ceasefire major map condition. Put it in the rotation with other major map events. Keep the loot super limited: no items beyond blue (rare) quality. Increase the arc presence. You can do your quests and hunt arc, but you can't gain a big power advantage.

THE REASONING

Why this, instead of an always-available PvE mode? Low-risk raiding should be a reprieve; a small treat. Not the standard.

If you remove most of the risk, you remove most of the reward. The danger is the whole point in a game like this.

Without danger, we lose lose the serendipity. You don't need to make friends or find out who people are and what they're up to. You don't have the little moments like accidentally shooting someone and then trying to make it up to them. Or the dilemma of deciding whether to defib a stranger who could be an adversary.

PvE also removes a lot of hard and soft gaming skills. I don't have to mind my aim in order to stay friendly. I don't have to say "Hey I'm friendly, what's up dude." There's no more flashlight friend-or-foe indicator. The sound of a powerful weapon no longer gets my hackles up. I don't need to listen for footsteps.

Lastly, open PvE could wreck the economy. You shouldn't be able to free-farm materials.

Adaptive matchmaking works. If you've earned your way deep into the friendly ranks, you can play all evening without getting shot at. This should suffice for most dads and uncles. But the risk is always there in the back of your mind.

And for those that need a boost now and then, we have a rotating Temporary Ceasefire map condition.

[u/EarthZebra]

I understand the idea but this just feels like it’s geared to only appease and placate people who participate in PvP instead of something actually fun for PvE players. Which is not the goal of a PvE mode they are obviously trying to capture a new audience because of how poorly the game has performed post launch.

[u/thesaddestpanda → u/EarthZebra]

Watching this sub lose it over a temporary pve option is becoming depressing. People just will fight it for misguided reasons. Its just a video game. Let people have fun.

[u/marcio0 → u/thesaddestpanda]

Let people have fun.

they will, as long as you have fun on their way

[u/jesusonice → u/thesaddestpanda]

This sub has been shit from like week 1. First few days were hunky dory. Now it's just constant bitching. I'd leave but this sub is how I found out the pve mode is been wanting is actually here

[u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N → u/EarthZebra]

My take is that PVP isn't the reason the game has performed poorly since launch there are many other reasons unrelated to PVP

[u/LetMeBeGay → u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N]

It’s 100% a lack of content. Or, maybe 95%. But still. we saw a massive spike of players with the new content drop. That’s what everyone was anticipating. I don’t even think many people knew about the PvE trial.

I think if they keep putting out stellar content like this, the player base will remain healthy. And it never really became “unhealthy” anyway.

[u/KidswasteALT → u/LetMeBeGay]

Was it? Based on what? Because the tweet announcing the PvE toggle has nearly twice as many likes as the Frozen Trials announcement, and that pattern holds. That clearly shows more are anticipating a PvE-only mode. I’ll be very interested to see the numbers if/when they show them because I think a lot of people underestimate just how many solely PvE players there are.

[u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N → u/KidswasteALT]

"a lot of people underestimate just how many solely PvE players there are."

I dont know if this is true. I think when people are referring to this, its the fact that a game like Arc Raiders only has so much content you can do, and removing PVP dramatically shortens how much content there is to do.

Really what people are referring to is that PVE-only players will show up in droves for new content, and quickly "finish" it, and move onto other games. So you will see much larger population swings.

While if a game supports PVP, youll see less of that (potentially, if the game is good and the PVP is good) because its endless replayability that doesnt depend as much on new content.

When you offer both - PVE Only and PVP options. It can harm the PVP Cycle of the game, especially an extraction. You can "Gear up" in PVE Only because its less risk. Which means the "PVP-On" lobbies will get much much sweatier, as people can get geared up much easier, with less risk in PVE. When PVP gets too sweaty, PVP players will leave. Sometimes you just wanna chill and PVP with like free or cheap kits... but it wont feel good vs decked players.

Ultimately, rather than things like aggression based, PVP, PVE only, matchmaking. I would love to see some options around kit value for matchmaking purposes.

Some lobbies could be mostly free, some lobbies could be decked out. Some lobbies inbetween.

I think having "High Roller" lobbies that have like minimum 60k or 100k loadouts could be cool. I also think events like Matriarch could be PVE-Only given the nature of that event and wouldnt subtract much from the PVP side of the game.

Anyways, I think this discussion is far more nuanced

[u/LetMeBeGay → u/KidswasteALT]

First, you’re using Twitter likes as a metric, I’m not entertaining that.

They’ve released those numbers already. They are literally about split down the middle. PvPvE 33%, PvE 33%, PvP 33%. I think PvE has the most.

Regardless, adding a permanent PvE toggle would absolutely destroy the PvPvE’s (another 33% of the base) experience because it would become way too binary. I’ve already experienced this and it’s been 24 hours. A binary experience just doesn’t work in a game like this, and I’m sure Embark realizes that. If it didn’t absolutely destroy the PvPvE experience, I would be okay with it. Unfortunately, so far, I am finding that it does, and lots of others online are reporting the same. It just doesn’t work. They can’t change the game that fundamentally without ruining the experience for the people who play in the middle—and that’s what the game was marketed as in the first place, so I don’t think they’ll change that at all. ABMM seems like the best middle ground. It works 98% of the time, but still exposes you to a rare PvP encounter. If someone can’t handle dying 2% of the time, this genre is absolutely not for them.

[u/KidswasteALT → u/LetMeBeGay]

And they released those stats how long ago? And by how much has the player count decreased since? You spoke of anticipation. Social media likes are a fine metric to gain some indication of people’s excitement for a thing, but I understand why you’d want to dismiss them.

[u/LetMeBeGay → u/KidswasteALT]

They released the metrics less than a month ago when they announced they were doing the PvE test. The player count really can’t be utilized for this because they not only just dropped a huge update, but they also had a free weekend. That data is specifically just unreliable.

[u/KidswasteALT → u/LetMeBeGay]

We’ll see how it plays out. 🤷‍♀️ But claiming this game isn’t for those that want a PvE-only mode while the developers behind it are trialing one is a bit silly.

[u/Lurkeristrolling → u/LetMeBeGay]

I think a lot of the pvpve playerbase  quit because of cheaters it was almost every game in the higher aggression trios lobbies 

[u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N → u/LetMeBeGay]

Pretty much lack of support and content. People get bored. I did 2 or 3 (I forget) expeditions, I think I'm on my 3rd "character" and lost all motivation to play. Nothing to do. I'd amass a massive vault of millions and nothing to do. I wanted new maps, new modes, new weapons, new experiences... And also to fix cheaters. Then Embark came out and said they were putting out content too fast and were going to slow down. That's when they lost me.

[u/FalloutCreation → u/LetMeBeGay]

I dropped the game after the first month. I just got bored with it. Yeah I binged a little. I only decided to look at the game again because of the frigate. I thought that was a cool idea. Plus I’m playing the PVE mode. It’s something I wanted since launch. I think it’s more exciting to play PVP because the pve mode seemed really empty. At least I can fight arcs without people backstabbing me.

I think a cease-fire would be great for a periodic event. Allowing players to finish quests. Since we already have night raids which makes the loot better I think those should stay PVP.

[u/Budtending101 → u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N]

Well my take is I quit because of rat pvp. I'm back because of the toggle, I'll leave if it goes away but that's ok.

[u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N → u/Budtending101]

Thats fine, and Rat PVP sucks. I never had a ton of issues with Rat PVP personally. Yeah it happens and sucks, but also made for some pretty intense moments.

That said, lets say PVP is off. Eventually you do all there is to do, and the game feels stale - to me. Congrats you have 5 Million of value in your Stash. You have half a dozen of every weapon maxed and fully modded out. Now what?

To each their own, and obviously some people hate PVP, but its also what provides endless replayability for many people.

I also dont think everyone should be forced to PVP, and I also will agree true "Rats" are a problem in the game.

[u/tekno21 → u/Budtending101]

I obviously don't get it, which is fine. It just kinda seems super boring and self defeating to play the game without any danger present (let's not pretend the arc are dangerous to a group of pvers). I would get bored so fast

[u/renesys → u/tekno21]

You know when someone else turns PvE mode on, it doesn't mean you can't PvP, right?

[u/tekno21 → u/renesys]

Incredibly shortsighted comment.

[u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N → u/renesys]

I think you're smart enough to realize that a change like this has sweeping ramifications for the entire game.

[u/renesys → u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N]

PvPers said ABMM would ruin the game, then it turned out it was there the entire time, so was what helped make the game popular. You may be smart enough to realize that the popular PvP opinion usually doesn't make much sense.

[u/Damienplz → u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N]

Yea majority of people are saying “pvp this” or “pvp that” the reason me and my friends quit is cuz there was no new content. Lo and behold now that they add a major update we (and statistically many others) come back lol

[u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N → u/Damienplz]

Shocker. Maybe they should get a focus group together to figure out why a sudden surge of players came back with the release of new content.

[u/Damienplz → u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N]

“This is definitely gonna need some more investigation! Cya guys in another year! “

-Arc Raider Devs

[u/EarthZebra → u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N]

I do understand that but it doesn’t change the issue that the huge audience that was there for pvpve is gone, with little chance of coming back, which is sadly how games that fumble tend to go.

[u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N → u/EarthZebra]

I'm not coming back and I loved the game. It has nothing to do with pvp.

[u/Bluegobln → u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N]

Maybe its because you like PVP and can't fathom that you are the problem.

[u/splinter1545 → u/Bluegobln]

PvP players aren't the problem. The lack of content and the cheating def is though.

[u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N → u/splinter1545]

100%

[u/ThreeEyeJedi → u/EarthZebra]

PvE toggle wont affect playerbase numbers in huge droves. I’d bet a gajillion on it. I say this as a mixed pvp/ve player. People need something to do with all the loot they’re amassing. The gameplay loop has to be fun

[u/F4NT4SYF00TB4LLF4N → u/ThreeEyeJedi]

Thats the ultimate crux here. I can only play so many times, and reset so many times before I am just bored... I got a Stash full of stuff and nothing to do with it....

[u/necessary_plethora → u/EarthZebra]

What metric are you using exactly when you say the game has performed poorly since launch?

[u/TotallyNotABob → u/EarthZebra]

On top of that I don't want to have to wait for a specific time for a specific map condition just to play some friendly trios with my buddies.

[u/FreshmeatOW → u/EarthZebra]

NO. People bought an Extraction shooter. Why the fuck do you think somehow PvE players now should be catered to? You don't see it happening with Hunt Showdown, or Helldivers 2.

You bought this game, KNOWING what it is, yet demand it be something else? The selfishness and entitledness is honestly through the roof.

[u/huey18 → u/FreshmeatOW]

The customer is catered to because embark knows how to run a business…..

And when embark did a survey and over half the player base stated they wanted a PVE mode, embarked listened

You guys act like the term “extraction shooter” encoded in law and can’t evolve or change

But games evolve, terms used for games evolve, life happens things change

And embark knows that if they want to grow this they need to listen to their customer base

Out of curiosity, have any of you guys ever actually started a successful business and then growing it to the point where you’re actually hiring employees and had people whose jobs depended on you?

It’s really easy to say they should do “this” or they should do “that” but there’s a lot of factors in there you’re just not aware of when a business has to make a decision

[u/EarthZebra → u/FreshmeatOW]

I mean bro there’s not many people left to cater to

[u/FreshmeatOW → u/EarthZebra]

this game hit nearly 200k on the update week (before the toggle came out). Games doing just fine. It doens't need to bend to your whim.

[u/MatrimAtreides → u/EarthZebra]

This game still posts numbers other devs only dream about at night, they were never ever ever going to maintain the hype, all viral games like Arc start incredibly strong and then even out, at way way lower player counts. If you try and please everyone, you please no one.

[u/yoricky305 → u/EarthZebra]

The game has performed great for an extraction shooter so I don't know what you are talking about.

THIS is what PVE should be. The toggle was just a quick test idea so it's fine.

but the map condition on all maps with less loot is a good idea.

[u/EarthZebra → u/EarthZebra]

Tho I will admit it’s ballsy to let PvE players be on the same progression track as PvP. Not only do I think it’s bad for the in game economy but also I just think they are both fundamentally different gameplay styles that require different tracks for progression. Probs even certain skills being reworked/exclusive to specific modes.

[u/No_Education_9864 → u/EarthZebra]

What if the event was always available on at least one map?