r/whitesox • u/Swimming-Hearing6016 • 2d ago
Discussion Paul Konerko Should Be In The Hall Of Fame
Career Stats & Milestones: 439 HRs, 1412 RBIs, .279 AVG.
6x All-Star, 1x World Series
136
u/Sell_The_team_Jerry 2d ago
Hall of very good for him
44
u/teeohdeedee123 The Big Hurt 2d ago
First-ballot HoVG
11
u/chnkypenguin 2d ago
Can we open a hall of very good and put it in the field of dreams campus in Iowa? Please?
80
u/LegalScientist6 2d ago edited 2d ago
Naw fam, he should not. I’m also a lifelong white Sox fan.Paulie is def loved but let’s not do that. I think Buehrle should go over him.
20
1
u/jdubya525 Buehrle 7h ago
So many walk of shames for Pauly. Walking back to the dugout with his mouth wide open and no answers to be had. Love him. Own his jersey. Grand slam homerun man.
14
u/Joe-Raguso Hawk 1d ago
Those aren't Hall of Fame numbers. I do hate when people mention his WAR, because that is skewed by steroid users, but it's not like he was gonna end up with 60 WAR without steroid users either. Doesn't have the counting stats, doesn't have the sabermetrics to back him up either. There's nothing wrong with having a Hall of very good career either.
5
u/DSzymborski 1d ago
Yeah, the four 1B/DH (at least 50% of career PA) within three points of OPS+ and 500 PA of Konerko are Steve Garvey, Don Baylor, Mickey Vernon, and Mark Grace. I know Garvey has a certain allure to fans/writers of a certain age, especially on the West Coast, but I can't really see any of those four being good HoF candidates either. Grace might be closest because of defense, but I wouldn't have voted for him if he were on the ballot right now (he was one-and-outed in the 2009 vote).
51
u/jhorch69 Buehrle 2d ago
28 career WAR. Average WAR in the HOF is in the 60s.
6 all stars, 2 top 10 MVP finishes, and no other accolades.
Hall of Fame of our hearts but he doesn't even have a borderline case for Cooperstown.
2
u/Excellent_Pomelo_378 1d ago
Yeah I think his glove was kind of brutal
1
u/RepresentativePale29 1d ago
As someone that watched most of his career "brutal" is not really fair; he had limited range even when he was young but rarely made errors (per bRef, career .995 fielding percentage, it actually is kinder to his range than my memory as well as it has his range factor around league average at 1B), on the balance he was about an average defensive 1B...that said, it's fair that an average defensive 1B is providing very little value with their glove. Most MLB level players could be average defensive 1B with some practice, and the better fielders are playing elsewhere.
The number retirement is deserved given that he did all of the above and played (basically) his entire career with the Sox but as much as I love him I agree he's not HoF level.
-3
u/brandochu009 2d ago
WAR means nothing, especially when the guy played about 5 years when a bunch of guys were on roids.
-3
25
u/greelraker 2d ago
To be in the HoF would mean all but a couple of teams would have replaced him over their own starters, and I can’t imagine more than half of MLB saying that.
Buerhle on the other hand, you could say almost any team in MLB would have slotted him in as a 1, 2 or 2a pitcher for their team. I can’t imagine a single team passing on a guy like him while he played.
2
10
38
u/kev11n 2d ago
I have come around on Beuhrle, but I think Paulie is very firmly in the HOVG and White Sox legend
22
5
u/gogosox82 2d ago
I was similar. I was a hall of very good for a long time until it just clicked that the way pitchers are used now, pitchers coming after Buehrle probably aren't gonna have his numbers so how can you deny him? He also matches up pretty well with CC Sabathia who just got in.
10
10
8
u/Ok_Effort2667 2d ago
God damn I miss Paulie Walnuts. He was never the best first basement in the league. But man was he clutch
10
u/gogosox82 2d ago
Him hitting the slam in the ws was one of the greatest sporting moments of my life.
3
8
u/Ok-Post6492 2d ago
Paulie is my favorite player of all time. But he doesnt even match up to harold baines. Has a war under 30 and closes mvp was 5th in voting
7
u/dajadf 2d ago
I don't think so but Buehrle absolutely should be.
3
u/DSzymborski 1d ago
Full agree. I voted for Buehrle and have tried to convince colleagues. I was a Buehrle skeptic for a while, seeing him as just on the wrong side of the line, but when re-evaluating pitcher usage trends, I saw enough to put him on the right side.
3
u/dajadf 1d ago
Keep fighting the good fight. I can't believe anyone would look at his resume and have issue with it being hall worthy. World Series, Perfect Game, No-Hitter, 5x All Star, 4x Gold Glove, over 200 wins.
3
u/DSzymborski 1d ago
The problem is you still had a lot of older writers who consider 300 wins the standard, even though that makes absolutely no sense, and was never the standard; there are only 13 300-game winners after the Dead Ball era. Buehrle's gaining votes, but I think he's suffering from not being a few years younger; he's already at his seventh ballot this fall.
2
1
u/abactore 1d ago
Does Buehrle's 200+ IP streak (14 seasons!) carry more weight with voters now that it's a less common milestone, or do they see innings pitched as an outdated measuring stick?
1
u/LegalComplaint Genghis Hahn 9h ago
He was never dominant. Even with the 05 staff he wasn’t the ace. His stuff was bad (especially now) but he had amazing command. He’s still a left handed Kroger version of Greg Maddux or the Jewel Branded Catfish Hunter.
18
u/40jordan 2d ago
Why didn't he or Frank Thomas or Scotty Pods even throw out 1 of the first pitches for the playoffs..why would it be actors...that was a shame
11
u/gogosox82 2d ago
Well Frank is suing the org so he is out. Not sure why Paulie or Pods weren't asked.
6
u/Jon66238 Konerko 2d ago
Thome! Would’ve been a fun nod for both teams. Plus Thome is literally on premises
4
u/_banthafodder 1d ago
Nah, I love Thome but he did much more for Cleveland than he did for us during his playing days. It would’ve been like how the Astros had Geoff Blum throw out a first pitch in the wild card round. Like yea he’s the Astros play by play guy now but he will always be most remembered for that home run in Game 3 of the World Series as a member of the Sox.
1
3
3
5
3
u/gogosox82 2d ago
Don't think he quite makes it. Great Career and one of the best White Sox players of all time tho.
4
u/askforwildbob Cubs 2d ago
He was a very good player that should absolutely not be in the hall of fame. Cmon now
5
u/ThatSeanMoore 2d ago
The bar in baseball is just too high for Paulie to ever deserve to get in the hall of fame unfortunately. If it was the nba he would be in the hall of fame being a comparable basketball player for example.
6
2
u/Remarkable-Group-976 6h ago
His comps are Gallaraga, joe carter, fred mcgriff. Local heroes, super valuable to the franchises they played with (col, tor, atl), but just not quite a HOFer. Great player tho
1
3
2
2
2
3
3
1
1
u/joemax4boxseat 2d ago
Buehrle should be in. I love Paulie but he’s hall of very good.
0
u/LegalComplaint Genghis Hahn 9h ago
Buehrle should not be in. He’s just in a higher tier of the hall of the Very Good.
1
u/jkmj711 1d ago
He's already eliminated from the HOF ballot. He failed to receive the minimum 5% of votes to remain on the ballot in 2020. Loved Paulie though!
1
u/LegalComplaint Genghis Hahn 9h ago
If Jerry lives to 120, Paulie will get in via the Veteran’s Committee.
1
1
1
u/jkk023 12h ago
His offensive numbers are really really good and he’s such a likeable guy, but he couldn’t run and he couldn’t field. He was objectively bad at 2 of the 3 phases. Hall of very good, and there’s no shame in that.
1
1
-1
u/YouWereBrained The Big Hurt 2d ago
Over 2,000 hits as well. He should be. If Andre Dawson was let in, Paulie should too.
15
1
1
0
1
1
u/PenOk230 2d ago
Nope. Love him, but no. Just because there has been a slew of unworthy enshrinees the past few years doesn’t mean he deserves to be in.
1
1
1
-1
u/ChunkySlugger72 2d ago
I wish Paulie could of hit 500 HR's,That alone would have definitely locked him into the Hall of Fame.
Maybe even mid-high 400 HR's could have gotten the job done along with crossing over 1500 RBI's.
1
u/letsago9987 1d ago
not it wouldn't have. He's a Sox great who should have his number retired but that's it. Plenty of guys who will hit 500 that won't make it.
Kyle Schwarber is one. Stanton is another. Both probably gonna hit 500 and both won't get in.
1
u/ChunkySlugger72 1d ago edited 1d ago
Looked it up, I guess your right, It's not as valued as it used to be apparently, I just saw past legends and seemed like the standard.
I'll be honest I don't follow statistics and HOF inductions super closely as most do here.
I stand corrected, But still wish Paulie had a little more to his numbers to get him into the Hall of Fame, I would have love to see that.
0
u/FantasyBaseballChamp 2d ago
Traditionally no, but in the modern era slide into other sports’ Hall of Famous standards, you could do worse.
-4
u/Own_Proposal3827 2d ago
In a world without WAR he would be
1
2d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Own_Proposal3827 2d ago
I don’t think he’s Pujols, but everyone next to him on the all time home runs list is in the Hall barring roids. Thus without WAR he’d be in. I don’t think he’ll ever be in because of this, but there are people with lower WARs than him in.
1
u/Mixma85 2d ago
A lot of those players with lower WAR shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame either.
According to Baseball-Reference, there are three first basemen in the Hall who have a lower war than Konerko's 28.0.
George Kelly (25.4), who was one of several players whose Hall candidacy was boosted by teammate and friend Frankie Frisch heading the Veterans. From Baseball-Reference's player bio page of Kelly: " Called by Bill James the worst selection to the Hall of Fame, Kelly's statistics are most similar to those of Bob Watson."
Ben Taylor (18.1), but as a Negro League player, his stats are very incomplete.
Charles Comiskey (7.7), but he's in the Hall as an executive, not as a player.
I loved Konerko and what he did for the Sox, but he just doesn't have the numbers or career to be in the Hall.
1
u/Own_Proposal3827 1d ago
Again, the entire point of my comment is that his low WAR prevents his induction. So using WAR to say he shouldn't be in doesn't make any sense. I don't know what you think I'm saying or what you're arguing. I am agreeing with you.
-1
u/gogosox82 2d ago
But you gotta compare him to other first baseman in his era not to people in different eras playing different positions. He just doesn't stack up to the other 1st baseman in his era sadly.
1
u/Own_Proposal3827 2d ago
I mean you can say the exact same about Baines and he’s in. I’m sure we could both name ten right fielders better than him.
0
u/gogosox82 2d ago
Baines shouldn't be in
2
u/Own_Proposal3827 2d ago
But he is. Thus had Paul played 20 years prior, before WAR, he’d be in. That’s all I’m saying.
-1
u/GlacialTwitch 1d ago
Absolutely not. Poor defender. Mediocre HR totals for an aspiring HOF 1B. 118 wRC+ would be tied for second-lowest wRC+ for a HOF 1B with Ernie Banks, who also played SS, etc during his career. Second-most negative baserunning value of all time. More than twice the negative baserunning value of Frank Thomas, who didn't have functioning feet for the last couple years of his career.
-1
-2
224
u/mqr532 2d ago
Buehrle has an argument.
Konerko no shot.