For gasoline, you could also reduce the demand by making the economy less car reliant by encouraging remote work, improving public transportation and building less car centric infrastructure, but that's more of a long-term solution alongside encouraging ev use.
Remote work? But how would property owners meet the rent on office space? Someone think of the downtrodden landlords! /s (obviously, I hope. Please tell me it was obvious sarcasm.)
Sarcasm recognition is iffy these days. You just never know who understands it or not! I have conditioned myself not to use “he”, or “they”. I try to use the specific name so I’m not berated for a misunderstanding.
We could also “encourage “ the EV industry and make us less addicted to fossil fuels. China is far and away the largest EV producer. They have cut fuel usages by up to 25% in the last 5 years. And continuing to decrease.
Yeah you don’t do much research on EV’s do you……it cost more money to produce an EV than it does a combustion vehicle.
Go to your local Fire station and ask them how long it takes to put out an EV fire. I did, 72 hrs minimum. Watched a video on it with them submerging a Tesla that was on fire they took it out after sitting for 12 hours and it still reignited itself.
Go research LFP (lithium iron phosphate) which newer batteries in them, lower raw material scrap value and presenting economic challenges for traditional salvage
No, the cost to produce an EV is now on par with a gas car. The major cost difference, the battery, have become cheaper to produce as production has improved/increased.
Yes, Lithium-Nickel-Cobalt battery fires can be tough to put out. Fortunately, they rarely catch fire unless they are damaged, at this point. Gas car fires are still far more common (even accounting for the higher percentage of gas cars) and can be at least as damaging, such as the BMW X3 that destroyed the Jacksonville airport parking garage last year; or the Land Rover that destroyed a Luton (England) parking garage a few years ago.
And, funny you mention how LFP batteries are being used more frequently now, as a replacement for the Lithium-Nickel-Cobalt, which don't have the issue with burning, in fact, they actually resist catching fire. And this ignores other new battery technologies, such as sodium batteries.
And, yes, the issue with trying to recycle LFP batteries is that it isn't particularly cost efficient -- so which is it, EVs are too expensive or they are becoming cheap enough that recycling them isn't cost efficient? At the same time, since LFP usage is rather new, we haven't been concerned about efficient ways of recycling those batteries. Because of their increased use, new ways to recycle LFP batteries are being discovered that make it cost efficient.
Though that ignores that most car batteries, to this point, aren't needing to be immediately recycled. Instead, most car batteries are reused; as EVs reach their EoL, the batteries typically are then reused to create batteries for home battery systems (such as backup for home solar systems), larger systems used by businesses, or even for grid stabilization.
And even when the cost to build an EV was much more, they were still less expensive to operate over the full life of the car than a similar gas car, even if the EV was powered using electricity generated by coal; not to mention being far cleaner for the environment. And, as both the grid improves (currently less than 17% of power generation in the US is from coal) and EV technology improves, that difference is only going to become larger.
Yes the batteries have a federal or manufacturer mandated warranty on the battery which sucks for the manufacturer because I am sure they aren’t cheap. But it’s only for 8 years or 100,000 miles. What makes the market worse is that the value drops roughly 59% with in 5 years. Now depending on how the market is right now it could be higher or lower.
Which has nothing to do with what I stated. As for the length of the battery warranty, that doesn't hurt manufacturers. What is being found, as we put more and more miles on EVs, is that the batteries last longer than was originally believed. In fact, they last so long that the used batteries are reused as parts of commercial battery systems rather than being recycled.
As for the depreciation you are talking about, there are two major factors. First, the $7500 federal tax credit. While it is no longer active, when it was it lowered used prices, since a new EV was $7500 under sticker (because of the credit and beyond any discounts negotiated) which caused used prices to be depressed by that same $7500. Yet, since "depreciation" is calculated based on the MSRP, the fact that you could by new for $7500 less was still considred "depreciation."
The next issue is, as I mentioned, how much cheaper EVs are to build today, they are cheaper now than they used to be after the tax credit was removed. As an example, the 2023 Ioniq 5 ranged in price from $45.5K-56.5K (there was a smaller battery version for $41,450 but the small battery is no longer available. The 2027 Ioniq 5 starts at $37,750 with a top price of $49,125; basically they are now $7,000 or $8,000 cheaper to purchase.
So, yes, as often happens there is a price to being an early adopter. While EVs may continue to drop somewhat in price, the fact they are starting to be price competitive with gas cars (though rising gas prices may inflate EV prices a bit), they are reaching a point where you will no longer see the large depreciation with EVs.
From what I've seen, while Tesla drivers were some of the worst hit by the high depreciation. Since depreciation is often done at 5 years, it is worth noting the 2022 Model Y had an MSRP of $66,000, which compares to a similar 2027 Model Y selling for $40,000; even removing the tax credit, you are still looking at almost a $20,000 price difference. So, yes, Tesla has something like a 70% depreciation over 5 years.
The issue is, if you only go 3 years back, then Tesla is suddenly doing better than the market. The depreciation on Teslas going back three years seems to be around 27% (based on KBB), which puts them under the average for all cars with is roughly 35% over 3 years. It is appearing, with EVs in general (not just Tesla) that there was an "early adopter penalty" that is resulting in the large 5-year depreciation; but as EVs become more established the depreciation is normalizing.
And no LFP batteries don’t resist catching fire, they can still catch fire through thermal runaway under extreme conditions which you stated extreme. But no they do not resist catching fire.
You don't know much about EVs do you. They're in their infancy just like the internal combustion engine 100 years ago. They're already using different batteries that don't burn or use as much rare Earth minerals as the older ones. The Chinese are building these things and selling them for less than $10,000us.
We are being prevented from getting them in the US because they will devastate the backward antiquated American Auto industry.
They are in Canada and Mexico though.
What ever you are smoking pass it along….try the 1830’s bud seems you need to do research as well. Look up Robert Anderson, Sibrandus Stratingh, 1832-1839, so yea definitely not in infancy stage maybe its you who doesn’t know about EV’s much
There's a reason we credit Karl Benz for the automobile and not the several people who created an automobile capable of human transportation before that
It's gotten nowhere near the amount of r&d internal combustions have. In a few decades we won't be using fossil fuels and the world will be a better place for it.
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u/Emillllllllllllion 19h ago
For gasoline, you could also reduce the demand by making the economy less car reliant by encouraging remote work, improving public transportation and building less car centric infrastructure, but that's more of a long-term solution alongside encouraging ev use.