r/singapore • u/Scarletz_ • 1d ago
Discussion Can the haze be considered “Crimes Against Humanity”?
It’s been happening almost every other year for decades and not enough enforcement has been done. If war criminals are indicted at the ICC, like Putin, shouldn’t the people / companies who intentionally slash and burn forests causing this haze to be held equally responsible.
The number of people impacted by this haze goes well into the millions. Just stepped outside for a while and my nose is leaky and lungs feel weird. Can’t imagine what it’s like for those who are even more allergic or sensitive than myself.
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u/nthock 1d ago
My father has weak lungs due to years of smoking. When the haze first arrived in early September this year, he unfortunately couldn't take it and has since passed on. But not everyone's lungs are as weak as his. There are some people who are more affected by the haze than the rest. I hate to imagine if my father was still alive now. He is definitely suffering every single day.
The haze today is especially bad. And I am sure there are people out there who are suffering right now because of their pre-existing conditions.
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u/It_was_a_False_Alarm 23h ago
Nea say no death as a result of haze wor. As if doctors will attribute it directly
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u/nthock 23h ago
No doctor will attribute it. And if you were to argue, it is due to my father's weak lungs in the first place. I would like to believe it is a trigger though.
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u/bluewarri0r 16h ago
Yeah but tbh this kind also hard to say. Old folks in hospital with weakened immune system also higher likelihood of passing from pneumonia, but is it a direct cause? Hard to pinpoint
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u/SlurpyAss I EAT ASS 23h ago
This is fucking Bio Terrorism already. Not just towards us but their own ppl too.
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u/WowBastardSia 20h ago
Thinking about the millions and millions of animals and wildlife that have been wiped out, suffocated or burnt to death, their homes just gone like that is heavy stuff to think about man.
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u/DependentSpecific206 Own self check own self ✅ 1d ago
The ASEAN countries should get together and sanction Indonesia.
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u/WowBastardSia 20h ago
Good luck lol. One of the foundational agreements of ASEAN from the beginning is non-intervention between its members.
Most of the time it's a good thing. It's one of the reasons why there hasn't been military conflict in this part of the world since the end of the Vietnam war.
The rest of the time like now... it's a bad thing.
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u/CalamityMetal 18h ago
So deadly haze is not considered intervention? It's bio attack on Singapore/Malaysia
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u/WowBastardSia 17h ago
I get what you're trying to say and I agree with it, but in the strictest definition of the term, no it isn't. If I attacked your country, I didn't 'intervene' in your country. If a 3rd party stopped me from attacking your country, then that would be an intervention.
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u/Delicious_Willow_733 21h ago
Everything abt blame indo but zero accountability for the capitalistic corporation parasite having their pockets filled at the expense of the people
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u/True-Willingness-507 19h ago
Then how come got capitalistic corporation parasites in malaysia but no burning? They just nice to malaysia is it? or is it that the malaysian government actually takes the issue seriously?
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u/ziddyzoo East side best side 23h ago edited 23h ago
Not millions, hundreds of millions of affected people.
Ambient and household air pollution is the #2 ranked risk factor for disease mortality globally. It causes heart disease, stroke, copd, lung cancer, infections and t2 diabetes.
When severe haze hits us for months at a time it becomes a very dominant disease risk factor.
Remember the WHO medical guidance is that any persistent PM 2.5 exposure above 35 (yes 35, not 135, not 200, not 350) is harmful to human health. And 35 is their least stringent guideline.
take it seriously, limit your exposure, wear a mask (even tho no one is…)
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u/ugene1980 it's faster to google for an answer 17h ago
As someone who lived thru the many serious years of haze previously
I'm shocked by how casually everyone is taking this,
People even stare at me in my n95 masks
The govt propaganda with 24hr psi values really worked
Sigh
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u/Useless_Bipedal 1d ago
Our lifespans are being shortened rn and there isn't much we can realistically do about it. Our govt waiting for the magic 300 number and not pushing hard on the indo govt to do shit. Then once this ends, no one is held accountable for the haze and the haze will return another year.
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u/JoinTheRightClick 1d ago
Yes and everybody will vote them in every 5 years until the end of time. Zero consequences and accountability
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u/pewpewpew88 23h ago
Nah, I'm voting anything but them. As long as there's still haze, I will hold my word. Until this haze is solved, I will continue to MONITOR
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u/JoinTheRightClick 23h ago
Let us monitor our votes or even better form a committee to decide the best course of monitoring next election
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u/botsland Mature Citizen 22h ago
Because any reasonable voter knows our government can't do much against Indonesia to stop the fires.
Our govt can't start seizing assets without going through our courts. Our govt can't sanction Indonesia without it backfiring on Singapore's economy (there is also no guarantee the indonesian govt will back down anyway). Our govt can't cooperate if the Indonesian govt refuses to cooperate. The most our govt can do is condemn Indonesia which does nothing and makes them even less willing to cooperate.
Blaming our government for haze caused by Indonesia is illogical
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u/y0c4 18h ago
This is defeatist thinking. And it is not correct. A country like singapore can for example follow EU rules on oil plantation so all sources have to be tracked; if they refuse then refuse them access to singapore capital markets and clearly brand the owners as non-compliant
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u/botsland Mature Citizen 18h ago
It will take a global or at least a regional effort to be effective. Not every alleged culprit companies access Singapore's capital markets and those that are listed here could always find alternative capital markets.
If the EU traceability rules on palm oil had an effective deterrent effect, those Indonesian palm oil companies won't have burned their forest.
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u/y0c4 9h ago
It is not whether it is effective or not; it is a fact that if anyone can regulate this, it is Singapore (regionally). Not acting is also a choice. And no, I am not really sure that they can find alternative capital markets. With your argumentation, would you also want drug dealers and murderers access to singapore capital markets? Because, it is too difficult to regulate? I hope you see the flaws in your logic :)
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u/Hedgehog101 22h ago
They can't do anything against Indonesia?
Sure, can they do anything for the people in Singapore in the 300psi haze? ARE THEY?
Malaysia has closed down their schools, what is Singapore doing?
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u/botsland Mature Citizen 22h ago
they can't do anything against Indonesia
Try coming up with an effective plan against Indonesia to stop the haze. The idea that you can sanction or play economic warfare against a $1 trillion economy without hurting yourself is nonsensical
what is Singapore doing
Same thing it did last time there was severe haze. The government will close schools once the 24 hr PSI exceeds 300.
For now, lessons and exams will continue in enclosed space with air purifiers
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u/Hedgehog101 21h ago
I tend to not listen to people who have reading deficiencies, you're going to have to reread my sentence again or find somewhere else to strawman
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u/botsland Mature Citizen 20h ago
You asked what is the Singapore government doing for its people and I answered accordingly. Schools won't be closed if the 1 hr PSI is 300 but if the 24 hr PSI exceeded 300. This has been the policy for past haze crisis. Schools in 2015 weren't shut down until the 24 hr PSI exceeded 300. In the meantime, lessons and exams will be held in enclosed space with air purifiers and outdoor activities are suspended depending on conditions
Just because Malaysia is shutting some of its schools now doesn't mean Singapore should follow along.
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20h ago edited 20h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/botsland Mature Citizen 20h ago
^ reaction when someone won't blindly agree with you and you have no counter arguments
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u/JoinTheRightClick 20h ago edited 20h ago
The fucking irony lol
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u/botsland Mature Citizen 20h ago
It really shows how valuable your counter arguments are when you can only resort to ad hominem attacks. (Nice editing of your comment to remove the ad hominem)
You don't have any good reason to justify why our government should face consequences and accountability for haze created by Indonesia
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u/HidingCat President of the Old Peoples Club 23h ago
It's not like we never tried.
I'm not sure what some people want. Do you want to start sanctions against Indonesia?
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u/Useless_Bipedal 22h ago
That was a decade ago though, when both governments were different. Maybe we can try again to prosecute the palm oil companies?
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u/HidingCat President of the Old Peoples Club 4h ago
I think there's a good chance we will try again, given the last time we did it was after a bad haze season as well. However I'm also equally confident the Indonesian government will stonewall us again.
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u/notiongflu 1d ago
crime against environment
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u/Tall_Match8552 1d ago
environment = humanity's survival
so if a = b and b = c, does a = c?
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u/Benphyre 1d ago
The wildfire is man-made so technically the haze can be considered environmental warfare
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u/zeindigofire West Coast 22h ago
This. Not "CAH" but definitely environmental terrorism. I don't understand how Indo isn't on global sanctions for just the amount of carbon dumped into the atmosphere, let alone the forest destruction and pollution.
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u/DeBaus111 22h ago
Cause it doesn’t affect any of the countries who’s sanctions would materially affect Indo (ie China, US, Europe etc).
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u/danny_ocp 22h ago
Doubt it, but it could be argued to be near that scale.
The crazy thing is the people suffering the most are their own citizens in Riau and Kalimantan but because kickbacks are more important than human decency, they issue statements instead of punishing the culprits who are of course their partners in crime.
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u/JadedDuty663 21h ago
The government doesn’t fucking care because Sumatra and Kalimantan don’t have 160 million people and their friends and family, unlike Java incl Jakarta. And the Indonesian people is barely speaking up cus lo and behold most of them are there too. Ppl on r/indonesia are “happy” the haze made Singaporeans and Malaysians so angry this year because it “shows the world how incompetent the indo govt is”. Eh hello? Yall cannot speak up on your own isit, must wait for others to suffer? Genuinely so pissed at my compatriots as an Indonesian
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u/bluewarri0r 16h ago
I would have stormed the parliament. Corrupt pieces of shit
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u/JadedDuty663 8h ago
Building empty. All enjoying their vacations somewhere or another. Ran into an indonesian MP at taka while last year’s demonstrations were ongoing - actual scum
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u/Background_Tax_1985 1d ago
A certain country's gov/politicans probably get money from those companies so why would they affect their cash cow.
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u/Goenitz33 1d ago
even their president have interest in those coy.
nothing will be done as long as the $$ keeps rolling in.
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u/Background_Tax_1985 23h ago
The current one? They all just too rabak liao
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u/Goenitz33 23h ago
Current is absolute shit tbh. Ever since he took over, it has been on a decline.
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u/Background_Tax_1985 23h ago
Dunno if its a good thing or bad thing. In a way good for us, but in some ways such as thd haze, its pretty bad
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u/Goenitz33 23h ago
no. you dont want your neighbours to be in a bad spot, esp if you are rich. (SG)
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u/Background_Tax_1985 23h ago
No choice for us tbh, with no natural resources we have to do it through other ways
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u/Goenitz33 23h ago
yes but what i meant is that you want your neighbours to prosper also so that they wont be so jealous of what they dont have.
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u/DeBaus111 21h ago
True in some context but don’t think it applies with sg. SG’s strength has always been that it is more predictable and stable than its neighbours.
There’s not really any traditional reasons for other countries to be jealous of sg which could lead to negative affects either. Like there’s no natural resources, no land, and for those who would be making the crucial decisions like business moguls or politicians, they benefit from sg being stable since the can park their money somewhere close by, escaping the consequences of whatever corrupt or poor decision they make.
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u/Background_Tax_1985 23h ago
I mean in normal circumstances yes like in western europe (mostly), but i think we cant really afford it. Malaysia is an example of this. They got better and the exchange rate dropped, but now they back to infighting again
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u/Goenitz33 22h ago
no choice, they dont believe in sharing the pie, everyone wants a bigger piece of it.
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u/YoungAspie East side best side 23h ago
The irony is that Indonesians themselves are worst affected by the haze.
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u/PoisonerZ Own self check own self ✅ 23h ago
everyone stop buying products with palm oil. ez
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u/notiongflu 23h ago
it's a lot of products...
https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/food-drink/foods-contain-palm-oil
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u/HidingCat President of the Old Peoples Club 23h ago
It is, but gotta start somewhere. If there is an alternative, buy that first, if there isn't, reduce usage. Find substitutes even if they're not perfect.
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u/PoisonerZ Own self check own self ✅ 22h ago
agree. i myself have been avoiding palm oil products for the last 2 years. may not always be able to avoid it fully but at the minimum buy only when there is no better alternative.
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u/notiongflu 22h ago
true that... buy according to your conscience
however, what about palm oil products that are sourced from 'no-burn' plantations?
not every palm oil plantation is practicing slash-and-burn
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u/PoisonerZ Own self check own self ✅ 22h ago
as another commenter pointed out, palm oil is bad for health and should be avoided in general.
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u/notiongflu 21h ago
you're right... soft oils are healthier than palm oil...
but palm oil is good for fried chicken... haha
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u/Keep-Darwin-Going 20h ago
Very hard to trace unless they have end to end tracking which i believe had been tried for many years without success. Coffee and tea have some success because their origin also determine the price while palm oil is the same no matter how or where it was grown.
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u/Far_Ad3225 17h ago
Another bugger. You know why palm oil? Cheaper than alternative. Willing to fork out more my friend?
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u/HidingCat President of the Old Peoples Club 4h ago
Already am, don't assume everyone is cheap and only buys the cheapest things.
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u/Far_Ad3225 4h ago
Good for you. Propose to tax the rich more. Hehe
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u/notiongflu 3h ago
seems to be a bit off topic, but i'm curious as to how u/HidingCat 's comment about not being cheap and purchasing palm oil alternatives can lead to a comment about 'taxing the rich'? what has one to do with the other?
he's probably being fiscally prudent by making healthier choices, thus reducing the risk of developing health conditions later in life, and hence actually saving money (by avoiding seeing the doctor).
it's tough living in Singapore, but i believe not everything is about the rich-poor divide
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u/Far_Ad3225 1h ago
Yeah I am just being annoying.
My honest opinion: boycotting any products rarely works. Sure you drive down sales temporarily but eventually things will return to it's normal state. Singapore don't buy palm oil, China, US, Vietnam will. There was a move to boycott palm oil in chocolate. Guessing from how Indonesia still burns things, it has achieved very "limited" success. Another example is Xinjiang's cotton.
Unless someone found cheaper alternative materials, the consumption won't stop based on your anger towards the current situation. What you did, much like buying palm-oil-free chocolate, is spent more and barely made a dent.
If you have lots of spare cash, sure do what you like. Eat home cooked olive oil vegan meal everyday. For the other billions in the world relying on mcd, creamer, infant formula, toothpaste, shower cream and eating chicken/pork (animal feed) everyday, i don't see this to be possible. Good luck finding palm oil free infant formula.
"Not everyone but the cheapest thing" just show how ignorant the comment became. Hence the mokery.
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u/4theloveofthenatural 20h ago
the real question is, aren't there already enough palm tree plantations around the entire region? i've never ending fields of it in Msia and Indo. Why can't palm fruits/oil be harvested from the existing trees already?
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u/Keep-Darwin-Going 20h ago
Expanding production and non sustainable farming means the existing land may not be fertile anymore.
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u/Nila89 19h ago
That one is hard to tell. Just stop buying products made in Indonesia or veggies/fruits sourced from Indonesia.
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u/shane_low chapalang dude 11h ago
- About half of indonesia's palm oil is exported.
- The biggest importers of palm oil in the world include US, China, and India.
- You can still call a product "made in X" even if the ingredients are imported from Indonesia.
Sorry to burst your bubble but it's not that simple
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u/JustARandoH3re 19h ago
Most popular palm oil products people buy in sg supermarkets are rspo certified tho
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u/Far_Ad3225 17h ago
This guy didn't know palm oil is used in so many products. You can't even stop using them!
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u/Sufficient_Command31 18h ago
Not that easy. Palm oil used for a lot of things. Even making plastics
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u/pudding567 1d ago
Boycott the haze-causing products!
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u/b_litzkreig 1d ago
Sure, all palm oil products, which is half of everything in your supermarket.
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u/Effective-Lab-5659 1d ago
actually we should. if you buy EU brands, those usually have lesser palm oil shit.
or really do your health a favour and not buy the package stuff!!
those cheap chocolates - all palm oil. please teachers and family - don't buy it for Halloween!
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u/pudding567 1d ago
There is green label for supermarket products
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u/Goenitz33 1d ago
which is mostly 15-20% higher then normal items.
sometimes it is not that ppl dont want to switch but green products all cost so much more that most of the normal folks cannot afford.
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u/Effective-Lab-5659 7h ago
sure, but chocolates ARE NOT something that people need to eat.
now our beloved fkiarpirce is putting all these fake chocolates in full view, setting up booths to induce more sales! because poor old grannies who want to buy something or their grandchildren will buy it, thinking its just a chocolate.
but nope, its not chocolate, its palm oiled filled shit
please - stop fooling grannies, tutors , teachers who keep trying to make kids smile but are ruining their health with cheap shit, and worse, causing all forms of addiction.
at the very least - Fairprice, stop displaying these palm oil products in front as a special item,
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u/Effective-Lab-5659 7h ago
but go see. - NTUC is mostly putting the shitty ones outside, giving it front view branding for innocent shoppers to buy
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u/Sorry_Objective4174 1d ago
If this happened in EU, I don't think the same inaction would happen. ASEAN is really a joke
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u/Agreeable_Mention963 22h ago
It has always been a joke. Correction, it’s actually finished in all but in name
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u/Aranuil_Gael 1d ago
Imagine this happened to one of the big powers like US, China. Would their reactions be the same? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/MaximumEven1998 1d ago
The pertinent question to ask is...what is our Grace Fu doing ?? Why can't she impose some kind of embargo on Indo trade ? Dun just do useless things like BCRS or make ppl pay for for stupid plastic bags.
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u/FreedomNext 1d ago
Why can't she impose some kind of embargo on Indo trade
Because 65% Voted for Profit$ Above People party? You're asking businesses to take a profit hit on these embargo? Siao ah? Money comes first remember.
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u/nextlevelunlocked 1d ago
Exactly. Most singaporeans spend their time mocking environmental issues, siding with business over people, rejecting min wage, calling progressive things woke as an insult, criticising those who question the ministers and cheering money faced decisions by govt as pragmatic.
Now they suddenly expect govt to do 180 because they are affected ?
Classic LeopardsAteMyFace material.
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u/HidingCat President of the Old Peoples Club 23h ago
I have mentioned to a few people before why I buy alternatives with no palm oil in them. They look at me as though I'm crazy for spending more money for the same thing.
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u/oarsandalps 20h ago
Exactly. Most singaporeans spend their time mocking environmental issues, siding with business over people, rejecting min wage, calling progressive things woke as an insult, criticising those who question the ministers and cheering money faced decisions by govt as pragmatic.
they do? that's a surprise to me. singapore is completely at the mercy of global climate change and is highly susceptible to heat and flooding.
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u/JY0950 Tampenis 23h ago
Embargo on Indo trade, affect who the president or the Indo people? Grow up
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u/Intelligent_Art_5711 21h ago
Whatever affects the people will affect the president in elections no?
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u/oceanstay21 7h ago edited 7h ago
Please go research as to where our energy supplies are from. It’s easy to lay it on our Ministers but heck, do you think Indonesia will care whatever action we take, given our dependence on them? They do not even care for their voters in Kalimantan!
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u/Zabbarick 23h ago
Singapore leadership exposed. Can so wayang take a stand in matters about Ukraine and Gaza. But international matters that affects Singapore directly? Toothless
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u/Effective-Lab-5659 1d ago
yes but please Singaporeans hor, next week halloween please don't rush out and line the palm oil companies and big food shareholders and c suite leaders with our hard earn money lah.
chocolates and other packaged food from our supermarkets are filled with palm oil. the very thing that is causing so much problems for us.
https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/food-drink/foods-contain-palm-oil
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u/Maleficent-West5356 19h ago
They will say it's no crime when they supply the other 10 months of fresh oxygen.
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u/PaleontologistOk30 16h ago
It not an intentional effort to cause harm to people. At most, you can call it an "indifference to human health" by the Indonesian officials. If you call anything a crime against humanity, the terminology starts losing its meaning and severity.
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u/Maverick090 1d ago
Singapore and Singaporeans have no balls to do anything about this.
It’s either sanction, boycott or ending trade. Do we dare?
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u/throw2503 23h ago
There are very good reasons why we don't "dare". It's easy for armchair political analysts like you to give all these solutions, but have you ever considered why a small country like us has to remain neutral and friendly towards a big neighbor like them even if they're negatively affecting us?
Do you know why in ASEAN context, there's a stereotype that Singaporeans think too highly of themselves and their country?
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u/sunnyabd Lao Jiao 23h ago
Think hes a rage baiting bot. Check his acc comments. He normally says something outrageous without explaining himself.
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u/Maverick090 22h ago edited 22h ago
What rage bait?
It's a proven fact that nothing we have tried works. All this talking and "diplomacy" is pointless.
Im genuinely OK with the current circumstances because I am privileged to work from home, and my family is mostly fully covered. Either fully AC in their preschool settings or end to end travel with cars.
If you guys are OK with doing nothing, so be it. But I see so many redditors complain nonstop. Well, action have consequences. Do you dare to push the button? If not, then just suck thumb and accept loh.
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u/Darkkonz 21h ago
Ok. Say you got balls? What you suggesting to do? Fine them? They can don't pay. Send singaporeans over to help extinguish fire and maybe start a war? Don't just say shit but no solutions. Push button? What button? Go to war and both sides die by the millions when 100% singapore will lose the war helps?
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u/Maverick090 21h ago
We can boycott or sanction Indonesian / Singaporean companies and individuals whom are involved in this fiasco.
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u/Darkkonz 21h ago
Understand your concern, but we can't sanction them. It brings no economic benefits to us but more harm to our economy than we harm theirs. Looking at the trade numbers between us and them annually reflects that.
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u/Maverick090 21h ago
My general observation is that Singaporeans like to write social studies essays on Reddit and whine nonstop. When someone suggests how to resolve the problem, it’s “cannot be done”.
Ok guys, so be it then.
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u/Maverick090 23h ago
Dude.
I know the geopolitical concerns.
If that’s the case then Singaporeans should just accept it lol.
FWIW, Im able to work from home, and in fully air conditioned settings. If you guys can live with it, so be it man
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u/oceanstay21 8h ago
Blood on the hands of these big conglomerates and the folks who make money off them. They and their descendants will live with tainted wealth. Good luck to them.
They will deserve the hell they are creating for the rest of us now.
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u/free_username_ 23h ago
It’s not that hard. Government can sanction the relevant companies and block all associated members from banking or doing business with SG.
However, members of the Indo government are likely associated so that’s basically ending political relations with them
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u/botsland Mature Citizen 22h ago
The government needs evidence linking those companies to the fires. Furthermore not all the relevant companies are even based in Singapore
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u/Raynall2024 22h ago
If you ask me, the heads of the Singaporean companies who are burning down the forests should receive lengthy jail sentences.
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u/thjuicebox 🌈 F A B U L O U S 16h ago
My heart breaks every day for the people and wildlife living in and near those affected forests... who don't have the luxury of aircon buildings and N95 masks ):
I agree there needs to be enforcement, regulation of the companies incentivizing farmers to clear large swathes of land quickly and cheaply... it means that things like palm oil and all the products it gets used in would get more expensive but like... we can't have things cheap, fast and good...
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u/angerispower 1d ago
It’s been happening almost every other year for decades and not enough enforcement has been done. If war criminals are indicted at the ICC, like Putin, shouldn’t the people / companies who intentionally slash and burn forests causing this haze to be held equally responsible.
Intent matters when it comes to deciding whether a crime has been committed or not as well as what kind of crimes were committed. Meaning, a factory dumping toxic wastes in a river to save costs or an oil spill =/= soldiers poisoning river so that their enemies cant drink.
The intent to slash and burn forests is because its a cheap way to clear land for agricultural purposes. They are not burning the forests with the intent to cause illness and diseases.
The companies obviously are probably breaking laws, especially relating to the Transboundary Haze Pollution Act, but since you asked specifically about "crimes against humanity", im not entirely sure whats happening fits that.
Legal threshold breached
The haze episode on Sept 4 had already breached the threshold for Singapore’s anti-haze law, when the PSI crept into the “unhealthy” range in the central region at 7am and lingered there until 8pm on Sept 5.
Since then, The Straits Times has counted at least five other instances of unhealthy air quality lingering for more than 24 hours.
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u/Personal_Number4789 22h ago
Joker are the ones who talk about saving electricity and recycling to save the environment. Then raise cost for plastic bags, whatever nonsense. EV tax bla bla.
Just dump all our waste into ocean, save cost.
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u/Intelligent-Unit6598 22h ago
Given that Indo has a massive tobacco industry, they won't even be bothered about cigarette smoke, let alone haze
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u/Helpful_Bee6996 18h ago
Environmental issues have no teeth unless it affects the global top 1%. If they're not affected, continue to breathe smog.
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u/ehe_tte_nandayo 22h ago
Yes the haze is terrible, but calling it a "crime against humanity" trivialises actual violations like mass murder, enslavement, and violence.
Singaporeans should live outside their little world sometimes.
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u/Scarletz_ 22h ago
Just so you know, I’m not saying it based on a strict definition by international courts like ICC, merely drawing a parallel.
Also, have no intention to diminish other atrocities around the world, but we can talk about this one.
Another commenter shared 1700 deaths directly attributed to the haze in Aug in Indonesia. What about indirectly? Long term effects? Considering the numbers over the years, the impact directly or indirectly is quite an immense scale, at least IMO.
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u/ehe_tte_nandayo 21h ago
You asked if "the haze can be considered crimes against humanity", and if an arbitrary someone can be prosecuted for it at the ICC as did Putin. No, it cannot be because it is not a "crime against humanity".
Yes, it is serious and a hazard for everyone in the region. Our governments should pursue legal action in international courts against the acts of environment pollution by Indonesia. But it does not compare to intentional and flagarant inhumane acts encompassed by "crimes against humanity" that you needlessly invoked.
People like to mindlessly scream murder at every act causing death, but that is not always the case legally or logically. This is one of them.
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u/Time-Equipment-9175 22h ago
This reply has the same energy as replying "oh so you hate pancakes" to someone who said "I like cupcakes"
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u/Natescoco 1d ago edited 21h ago
& ppl wanna nuke that burning country (other commenters say one ah, not me)
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u/azizsafudin 23h ago
Average Singaporean who only care about something once it affects them, otherwise they’ll be sleeping.
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u/Delicious_Willow_733 22h ago edited 20h ago
Cuz we're helping those elites in exploiting the rest of the world's people. One by one, divide and conquer.
But now, we're not safe either, in the elite's persuit of infinite growth, more needs to be exploited.
When is our turn, who do we turn to for help? Sham in his GCB? Lol
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u/Intelligent_Art_5711 21h ago
That's like every single human being since the existence of time lol??
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u/Scarletz_ 23h ago
As opposed to?
Thanking indo for the oxygen they send when we’re unaffected? Are you Indo?
What a braindead comment
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u/azizsafudin 20h ago
Senator, I’m Singaporean.
My comment is about how this and other issues out there affect others but Singaporeans are always silent. Only when the problem is slapping us in the face then we start to take action or complain.
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u/Scarletz_ 18h ago
Even worse
First off, perfectly normal for people to talk about things that affect them. You don’t?
Why you talk about A.. don’t talk about B, C.. what about D?
Also, gross generalisation about Singaporeans whether they talk about things that affect them or don’t affect them. Are you privy to people’s private conversations?
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u/azizsafudin 18h ago
I’m talking about public sentiment on Reddit. You’ll regularly see people scoff or mock problems other countries are facing or things happening in west Asia not realising that one day it will either reach our shores or that one day we will need help from others.
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u/Own_Contribution3962 1d ago
Like that my fart and sneeze also can be crime against humanity. Sinkie really need to go out to the world and have a big eye opening. Not everything go smoothly in life and along your wish. Do some self reflection with the globe world map we are just one red dot.
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u/Sensitive-Meat7710 22h ago
cant do anything to them, but why not do what is within own control. can setup 24/7 haze shelters?
where there are air purifiers, medic on standby, and people can go there to rest?
not everyone has an air purifier or are able to have access to clean air this period
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u/CryptoIsTheFuture78 20h ago
Do something about it . Singapore is rich . Pay people to go put out fires there in Kalimantan etc . Could work?
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u/blackoffi888 23h ago
Crimes against humanity but gahmen still says go to school at 300. So start with humanising at home first.
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u/Delicious_Willow_733 22h ago
How is privatising profits and socialising costs a crime? It's capitalism working as intended!
Also if can't do crimes aganist humanity, then how to earn the profits? In capitalism, everything needs to be sacrificed in the name of PROFITS!!!!!📈📈📈📈
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u/ConferenceUnique1348 1d ago
the scale of this is insane when you think about it, millions breathing that stuff every year with zero accountability, but i doubt international courts would ever touch it since its mostly corporate actors not state militaries
the health effects creep up on you too, one day your nose runs and couple years later you got some chronic lung thing and nobody connects the dots