r/recoverywithoutAA • u/Comprehensive-Tank92 • 17h ago

This is a prime example of the 'Alpha Recoverist' that dominates 12 Step dynamics.

2 Upvotes

r/recoverywithoutAA • u/Truth_Hurts318 • 8h ago

Anyone remember that rehab commercial back in the day?

13 Upvotes

It was the guy who said, "I used to be an alcoholic, and now I'm not." And it was for a luxury inpatient treatment center. This was more than twenty years ago on the USA and before I even developed an Alcohol Use Disorder. I remember thinking, why doesn't everyone just go learn how to not be alcoholics anymore instead of saying they still are even years after they quit? Maybe they wouldn't need to drink so much if they stopped reminding themselves. My dad and family members did AA and I had to go to Alateen occasionally. Haaateed it! None of them ever recovered.

Fast forward to me sitting in my first AA meeting after a week in the hospital with pancreatitis twenty years later. It was a women's meeting and I was so lost and desperate, needing a way out so badly. I remember thinking everyone there seemed sad and weird to comfort me with the, "you've got a disease for the rest of your life", like I should just be resigned to it and let it run its course. But I had just beat cancer, an actual terminal disease, a disease I never introduced myself as. So I'm thinking, I want to beat this too. I didn't want what they had. I wanted what the guy who wasn't an alcoholic anymore had. I asked where the meetings for that program are. They told me he was a liar and it was impossible. So I left and just kept drinking, that's what alcoholics do. I went back occasionally and tried, really tried. It made everything so much worse and more confusing so I stuck with all kinds of therapy.

Now that I've overcome addiction and no longer have an Alcohol Use Disorder, I realized I had something even better than that guy from Malibu had. I was never "an alcoholic" to begin with. I was just a really wounded person who needed lots of love, compassion, therapy and education to learn skills and beliefs I was never taught. Once I addressed my CPTSD, my depression and anxiety, there wasn't a lot I needed to escape anymore. I am not cancer, I am not depression, I am not trauma, I am not anxious, I am not addiction. Those are just things I've experienced, healed and moved on from.

I looked up that luxury recovery center, it's still going strong. It says they don't push AA but Use SMART and Refuge Recovery along with mental health treatment and medication. So basically, aside from the all inclusive luxury resort, we have access to the same treatment. I did finally find my way to SMART years ago. I wish that guy would have just recommended it back then and saved me years on the recovery-go-round! LOL

I was just thinking back to that commercial's statement having such a massive impact on my brain that I never forgot the possibility of ridding myself of the whole damn problem once and for all and moving on, almost like it never happened. I'm so glad I believed I could, because that one belief kept me curious enough to find the answers instead of resigned to stay trapped in church basements for the rest of my life declaring that "I am an alcoholic", despite all evidence to the contrary. "Alcoholic/Addict" is not even a diagnosis, but a derogatory slang label they took out of medical books along with "idiot", "retarded", "imbecile" and "inebriate". "Alcoholism" is also not a diagnosis, neither is "Addiction". It's all recognized as a treatable mental disorder now. And although it doesn't roll off the tongue, it's much more accurate and appropriate to understand and state that what we are dealing with is just a "Substance Use Disorder" and we can make order by learning what we need for that. Just my random thoughts and wondered if anyone else remembered it too.

3 comments

r/recoverywithoutAA • u/P33tah • 10h ago

Anyone have experience with Dharma recovery?

7 Upvotes

Any real life experiences with dharma recovery?

11 comments

r/recoverywithoutAA • u/Psychological_Lack22 • 21h ago

30 days sober still feel so tired. I wasnt even drinking daily.

3 Upvotes

30 days sober! Im till feeling very tired. Wasnt even a daily drinker...

30 days sober, still very tired. Wasnt a daily drinker?!

Hello!

Im 30 days sober, finally i made it this far. I was drinking like 3 or 4 times a week, for 2 years long maybe. I was drinking like 3 beers a time, 6 glasses. So maybe like 15 tot 18 glasses a week. Had times that i dronk daily, for 1 week every day... But then i didnt liked it anymore. Sometimes i stopped for one week..Im really happy that i made it this far finally.

I dont understand why im still feeling this tired and umotivated even little depressed, anhedonia. I searched a lot on Reddit for people with the same drinking pattern. I know that some people are stil tired even after 30 days. Even running is to much now. I must say that i also use Concerta 36mg, Lexapro 10mg, olanzapine 2.5mg en serequel 12.5mg. And i drinked with these medications to. My question is does this feeling get better?! I want to wake up more refreshed again and want my energy back....

7 comments

Subreddit

Addiction Recovery Without the 12 Steps

r/recoverywithoutAA

r/recoverywithoutAA is a platform for people in addiction recovery (regardless of DOC) to come together to discuss their experiences, and strategies for recovery and healing, without the use of the 12 Step programs. This is an inclusive, supportive place to find help without being told all your problems will be fixed by just 'going to a meeting'. Open discourse on all addiction treatment modalities is welcomed. This is also a safe place to vent, deconstruct and deprogram from AAs ideology/dogma

Members Active

23.6k

Sidebar

Welcome to /r/recoverywithoutAA

About Us

/r/recoverywithoutAA is a community for anyone with experience of substance or alcohol abuse - or any kind of addictive behaviour (e.g., problematic gambling) - who has chosen a path of recovery that does not depend on a 12 Step Program (the most famous of which gives the sub its name: Alcoholics Anonymous, or AA). Whether you are struggling with an ongoing problem or have years of time working on your recovery, this is a place to share your experiences and thoughts with others without worrying about having to defend your choice not to use a 12 Step program.

Though focused on those who struggle with drugs and alcohol, we are a community for anyone who has struggled with similar self-destructive behaviour, including for example problem gambling. Loved ones of people with problems are also welcome here.

What is a 12 Step program?

The 12 Step Program is an approach to 'treating' addiction and substance abuse that was pioneered in 1935 by Bill Wilson and Bob Smith, two alcoholics in the United States, when they created Alcoholic Anonymous - better known today as AA.

The 12 Step approach is focused around its regular meetings, where individuals with problems gather together in a safe space to share stories and experiences. The 'Anonymous' portion of the name comes from the use of first names only. New members of a group are encouraged to find an older, more experienced member to 'sponsor' them and act as an informal mentor in recovery.

Individuals in an AA/NA type recovery program are told they must 'work the 12 Steps', a sequence of 12 self-directed measures a person must take to (according to the 12 Step model) achieve lasting abstinence from drugs or alcohol. The first step is always a statement like "we admit that we were powerless over alcohol/drugs/etc and that our lives had become unmanageable", and finish with the statement that "having had a spiritual awakening" the individual will promote the 12 Steps to other people suffering with drug/alcohol abuse.

Today there are hundreds of 12 Step groups with thousands of branches around the world. Some are very broad - like Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous (AA) - and some are very specific (e.g., Cocaine Anonymous). There are also spin-offs like Al-Anon, which are meetings for friends and families of those with substance use problems supposedly intended to help them understand what is happening and find a supportive community.

Unfortunately, there are many, many serious problems with the 12 Step approach.

What's wrong with the 12 Steps?

This subreddit change hands in April 2020 and is undergoing some changes. There will be a link to a more detailed discussion shortly! For now if you want a longer read, check out A Orange's masterful exploration of AA's effectiveness.

It's undeniable that some people have found the 12 Step approach helpful - and for some people with a very particular religious world view, it might be effective. But many, many more people find that 12 Step approaches either do nothing to help address their problem or, tragically, exacerbate their substance/drug use. Some of the documented problems with the 12 Steps include:

12 Step groups often repeat the refrain "it works if you work it", meaning any failure to achieve lasting behaviour changes always lies with a lack of effort or will on the part of the individual, never a failing or inadequacy of the program.
The 12 Step approach places extreme emphasis on the idea of being powerless and in the grip of an incurable, always-worsening disease. For many people, this is a soul-crushing way of understanding the problem that can worsen addictive behaviour. Studies have shown 12 Step treatment correlates with increased substance misuse for some individuals.
In the world of 12 Step recovery, any slip-up or relapse - however big or small - is usually taken as a catastrophic failure that essentially puts a person right back to day 1 of their recovery journey. This can be a hugely destructive and harmful way of thinking and turn what would have been a mild relapse into a very serious one.
AA/NA etc are not proven to be any more effective than any other recovery approach. Alcoholics Anonymous main text, The Big Book, estimates 50% of all AA users will stop drinking. In 1995, Harvard Medical School reported that the spontaneous rate of recovery from alcoholism was 50% - with four-fifths of those people needing no treatment.
Much of the literature that speaks favourably of the 12 Steps celebrates it because it is free and so cost-effective, or because it contains elements of other treatment approaches better delivered by qualified professionals (e.g. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy). The main predictors for recovery across all methods appear to be desire to recover, intensity of/dedication to treatment, and positive life circumstances (e.g. happy home life, job security, meaningful income etc).
Despite the official position of 12 Step programs that the program is for life and must be worked constantly, the vast majority of people who remain abstinent after starting a 12 Step program do not stay with the program. After 1 year, participation has been estimated to dip to around 5%; by around the 8th year, just 1%. The vast majority of people who successfully use a 12 Step recovery as part of their program do not 'work the program' properly, as 12 Step communities insist you must.
With an emphasis on total abstinence and listening to the experience of 'elders', 12 Step groups can disseminate harmful and counter-productive medical advice, like encouraging people to stop taking legitimate mental health medication. The lack of clinical involvement and regulation means any underlying or comorbid mental health problems contributing to addictive behaviour risk going undetected, untreated or neglected.

That the 12 Step approach works for some individuals is not disputed. But the idea that the 12 Step program is the best, near-perfect program for recovery - a common claim from its advocates - is very much disputed, as is the idea that it should be the gold standard for all addiction treatment.

What approach do we take/promote?

/r/recoverywithoutAA doesn't promote any single alternative to the 12 Step approach. We believe drug and alcohol abuse are complicated things best understood as mental health problems that, just like depression or anxiety, are best treated in a way that pays attention to the particular experiences, struggles, ideals, values and personalities of the individual who needs help. We categorically reject the idea that addiction and drug/alcohol are hallmarks of a bad, defective or weak person. We maintain a list (coming soon) of alternative approaches to recovery distinct from the 12 Steps here.

It is up to every individual in our community to decide for themselves how best to describe their problems. We do not force any particular label like 'addict' or 'alcoholic' on anyone, but nor do we discourage the use of this language.

Subreddit Rules

This is an informal internet community. No-one here is qualified to offer you professional psychological or medical advice, and your use of this space is conditional on that understanding. We are just individuals sharing experiences, stories and ideas.
Treat your fellow users with respect. This is a supportive, welcoming space for people from all walks of life and we have no tolerance for bigotry, either. Treat others as you would want to be treated. At the same time, understand that many people who seek out recovery subreddits are vulnerable and in a difficult place, and may want to vent or lash out at people from their own lives.
Encouraging someone to attend a 12 Step meeting or work a 12 Step program as a solution to their problem will get you banned. You can barely breathe in internet recovery communities for people singing the praises of the 12 Steps. People in this space have expressly chosen, or are at least thinking about, rejecting the 12 Step approach. Respect that.
No competing over who has had the 'worse' experience or the 'more serious' problem and no moralising different 'levels' of use. In this space, we are all equal. You are not a better person than someone else because you only popped prescription pills instead of shooting up heroin; you are not more of a 'real alcoholic' because you got black-out drunk where someone else is struggling with their more modest drinking.
You will get banned on sight if you are here to shill for a commercial rehab service (the only exception being if someone expressly asks you what facility you personally have used), or if you're here to tell us your magical MLM super powered kale shake made with 10% kale totally cured you of your addiction. Go away and prey on somebody else.