r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 15h ago
Possible Paywall As Progressives Prosper, Centrist Democrats Are Moving the Goalposts
https://newrepublic.com/article/216575/progressives-swing-states-centrists-202624
u/Grandpa_No 13h ago
Perry Bacon here laments about the stupid "sportsification" of politics while writing a giant screed drawing arbitrary lines between factions and complaining about "the other faction."
If he didn't write this specifically to stir shit then someone should buy him a fucking mirror.
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u/Visual-Report-2280 12h ago
Doubly stupid as "sportsification" is the theory that as societies grow they gradually remove the violence from sports.
"footballification" on the other hand is blind loyalty to your team, or as James O'Brien puts it : tying your football scarf so tightly around your neck it cuts off the blood supply to your brain.
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u/Grandpa_No 7h ago
Doubly stupid as "sportsification" is the theory that as societies grow they gradually remove the violence from sports.
Let the deep dive begin
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u/ChronosBlitz 15h ago edited 14h ago
> Center-left Democrats used to claim that progressives couldn’t win in swing states and districts. Now, with numerous candidates aligned with Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez ahead in the polls, most notably Michigan’s Abdul El-Sayed, centrists are moving the goalposts.
I mean, your lips to god’s ear, but El-Sayed’s only up by a few points isn’t he? If that’s the most notable then I wouldn’t say they are prospering, yet.
I certainly hope they win.
edit: am I pissing people off because I’m hoping that they win? or for thinking that prospering is a mischaracterization?
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u/Hilldawg4president 9h ago
Moreover, the overall National swing matters as well. If a progressive wins by one point in a national D+10 environment, that's not a good look for progressives. We actually want to win contested elections outside of massive wave years as well.
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u/foomits 14h ago
Youre just mischaracterizing what is happening.
Every inch gained by progressive candidates is done so against the will of not just their political opponents, but also their own party and the media. Progressive candidates face a reluctance or just refusal to fund from the DNC and adversarial reporting from every mainstream media outlet. The consultant class is in an all out war against DSA and progressive candidates and it shows.
Nixon in Florida is in a neck and neck race with Moody... IN FLORIDA and the DNC has not sent a penny. The only party affiliated money she has received is from Bernie.
El-Sayed is being asked to disavow Hasan Piker (lol) on MSNOW and CNN.
How many NY democrats in federal office refused to endorse Mamdani?
Its grading on a curve. If candidates like Nixon and El-Sayed can poll as well as they do with open hostility from the media and no institutional support, in purple and red states... we can drop the whole "progressive policy is too radical for the country", voters wont get behind them. No... moneyed interest wont get behind them and its money interest who pays the consultant class. Thats who is pushing this drivel.
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u/lateformyfuneral 14h ago
El Sayed is working fully with the Democrat Party who are equally invested in taking the Senate this year, which in most scenarios necessitates keeping Michigan.
From declaring himself a capitalist, rejecting the socialist label, campaigning with Obama and rejecting his past critiques of him from the left, adopting discourse around antisemitism and apologizing for past comments. Inb4 he gets called a traitor like Zohran is right now for going to an Oct 7th memorial or defending Jessica Tisch as NYPD Commissioner. The picture is more complex than this simplistic left v. center-left narrative.
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u/foomits 14h ago
Youre right about all this. But its noteworthy that Stevens and McMorrow were the clear favorites for the DNC. So, one of two things is true, either the DNC knowingly backed bad candidates (who would be more friendly to israel and corporate money) or they failed to recognize a good candidate. Either way, another failure from the DNC.
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u/FrogsOnALog 14h ago
When did the DNC back those candidates?
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u/foomits 13h ago
Officially? Not at all. Instead we got a steady stream of the usual consultant class pundits in the 24/7 news cycle simping for Mcmorrow, then Stevens.
Stevens got endorsements from Schumer, Whitner, Pelosi... I mean, it was a pretty extensive list of other federal democrats. But you know, the current Senate Minority leader, the Governor and the former House Majority leader. Either the DNC has completely lost the ability to control their messaging or they wanted Stevens, but just further illustrates how much they suck.
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u/FrogsOnALog 13h ago
Are you aware that the DNC is its entirely own thing and that they endorsed El-Sayed after the primary ended? He also got his own endorsements from federal democrats (he actually got more than Stevens).
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u/foomits 13h ago
Lol, yes, after El Sayed defeated their preferred candidate the DNC or I guess more specifically the DCSS backed him.
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u/JelloJealous2487 12h ago
I mean yeah? so what? that is how it work no? would you prefer they just refuse to support him at all?
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u/foomits 8h ago
I want them to use their resources and tap into what voters want, devise winning strategies, back winning candidates and give them the resources they need to win. We are seeing progressive candidates all over the place drawing interest from the base, yet they keep backing the most generic corporate candidates then reluctantly moving to progressive candidate when who they support loses.
We saw it in Florida, Maine, Michigan... prolly other places, its hard to keep track of it all. They are just totally out of touch (knowingly or unknowingly) with the state of things.
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u/ParticularJoker 11h ago
Kamala Harris and Barrack Obama are both campaigning with El-Sayed, what are you talking about?
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u/foomits 11h ago
After the preferred establishment candidate lost in the primaries.
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u/ParticularJoker 11h ago
Yes, that's what a primary is for, what's your point?
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u/foomits 11h ago
for the national party to push candidates voters dont want? lol.
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u/ParticularJoker 10h ago
The primary is to allow voters to choose. The voters have chosen, the national party is throwing their weight behind El-Sayed.
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u/JBredditaccount 1h ago
Really? You guys don't think the DNC should push progressive candidates because the primaries will start functioning in the real world like they do in an ideal world?
You guys are talking about the primaries like the invisible hand of capitalism, inevitably going to the best option for consumers.
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u/RepresentativeAge444 14h ago
Thank you. The Piker stuff started from Democrats and they have continued it post primaries. Meanwhile:
God did 9–11 to punish America- Pat Robertson Interestingly enough Republicans weren’t asked to condemn him every 10 minutes, he wasn’t used as a poster child for terrorism nor was he asked to leave Republican politics.
America needs another 9-11 - Laura Loomer. Interestingly enough Republicans are not asked to disavow this woman who has a direct line to the President. It’s not an ongoing obsession for months now. Also called black women ghetto bitches. No media obsession.
CNN did puff pieces on him two years ago. He was invited to the DNC
His rhetoric hasn’t changed so what did? Ah he’s been helping the campaigns of several progressive candidates abd also Israel has fallen out of favor with the American public.
Those who don’t see that this is a smear campaign for other purposes from what he actually says is either an idiot or they endorse it because they dislike him and his views.
ETA: Netanyahu the day after 9-11: It’s good for us.
This is the establishment wing of both parties using Piker as a way to attack the progressive wing of the party by proxy. And regardless of what one thinks about him personally they should be disgusted by this obvious attempt to disingenuously sway public sentiment.
They know El Sayed wins blows the door open for a rethinking of what’s possible as far as “electability” is concerned. And regardless of what they say publicly it’s something many don’t want to happen. Think CIA Slotkn does? Hell no. Because it’s not just about his votes it’s about the bully pulpit he’ll have to call out establishment malfeasance.
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u/Silent-Storms 10h ago
The piker stuff started when ES campaigned with him. It was always going to be used against him. It's not some plot. Nobody forced him to do something obviously stupid.
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u/koreqwzfp 14h ago
Most progressive candidates get help to keep their seats. What are you on about?
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u/SweetAlyssumm 13h ago
You are breaking the narrative son, stop that! Of course you are right.
Everyone get out and vote and pray to whatever god(esses) are available to you that this election move the needle toward progressive governance.
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u/ChronosBlitz 14h ago
Well, I’m a Democratic Socialist, I want the most progressive candidate possible to win the primary and then the general.
I was just objecting to the article rolling out the victory carpet for us because we’re up by 4 in Michigan.
Since 2016 we ran three moderate presidential candidates and lost twice so I agree that I don’t think “electability” is a claim that holds much water.
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u/koreqwzfp 14h ago
Biden didn’t adopt 90% of Sanders’s platform lmao their platform’s already overlapped 95%
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u/caligaris_cabinet Illinois 9h ago
With Michigan I don’t think the centrist Democrat who ran would be doing much better in the polls. State is about as purple as you can get with demographics all over the place. And let’s not count our chickens before they hatch. AES hasn’t won yet.
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u/BighatNucase 4h ago
You're pissing them off by pointing out they aren't as popular as they claim they are.
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u/MountNevermind 14h ago
What part of "can't win" do you agree with based on the current Michigan polling you cited?
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u/ChronosBlitz 14h ago
None of it? Because I do think they can win.
I just objected to characterizing it as prospering, we can’t get complacent with a +4. we need to donate and volunteer until it’s in the bag.
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u/MountNevermind 14h ago
Great. Then I don't understand your comment given the quote you were responding to.
The previous paradign was they said they couldn't win swing states. That's now revealed as nonsense. No god's ear required.
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u/ChronosBlitz 14h ago edited 14h ago
The god’s ear part was them saying that progressive candidates are prospering. Come election day I want that statement to be definitively true.
So I’m saying to the article: I hope the thing that you are saying is happening, will indeed happen come election day.
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u/MountNevermind 12h ago
The part you quoted is already happening.
We now know progressives can win in swing states. This is still true, even if any given candidate doesn't.
It's no longer, and likely never was, a reasonable position to state otherwise.
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u/epicredditdude1 15h ago
Can we please briefly pause the infighting until after the midterms?
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u/BernieBooBro 12h ago
“Vote blue no matter who!”
Let’s see if centrists walk the walk..!
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u/epicredditdude1 12h ago
Yeah that’s fair. If centrists don’t vote for progressive candidates I’ll be furious.
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u/BernieBrother4Biden 12h ago
The centrist Dems have all lined up to support them, you're the one perpetrating division. Bernie would be disappointed in you 😒
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u/marzgamingmaster 14h ago
Wish we could, but liberals can't stop themselves from running anti-trans ads and refusing to endorse/support DSA candidates. So here we are.
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u/FrogsOnALog 14h ago
DNC and the party have endorsed and supported progressive primary winners please stop making shit up. You are the problem.
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u/meTspysball California 14h ago
No! It’s the progressives’ fault for wanting healthcare, living wages, and to not support genocide!
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u/koreqwzfp 14h ago
Apparently your people are owed loyalty but not reverse?
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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 13h ago
This is the crux of every centrist dem's argument. They expect party loyalty from voters but do not return loyalty in policy platforms.
"I know I said last time that $15 minwage was impossible and that I will never vote for it; but vote for me anyway, because the other team also agrees with me on policy and wont vote for it either!"
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u/koreqwzfp 12h ago
It’s not loyalty it’s just the expectation of making a utilitarian decision at the ballot box instead of a dogmatic one.
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u/marzgamingmaster 10h ago
Apparently I am required to make utilitarian decisions, but the Democratic party is not? Curious. Damning, even.
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u/koreqwzfp 9h ago
I’m not sure what you mean because the Democratic Party does constantly make utilitarian decisions over dogmatic ones.
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u/marzgamingmaster 8h ago
In addition to what another user here said in response to you. A utilitarian interpretation of the modern political landscape, taking into account the actual, genuine, hard facts of reality and not wishful vibes, is that running as a Democrat on an anti trans legeslation/pro transphobia platform is self destructive. There is 0 indication that anybody that would need anti-trans beliefs as a core, non-negotiable issue would ever vote for Democrats, instead of just sticking with the already Hardline anti-trans party. It gets you precisely zero additional votes.
Meanwhile, what it DOES do is ostracize your trans voters, and their friends and families, and the entire LGBTQ+ community, who are very active voting blocks. If you are risking losing those votes, you need to be 100% sure that you will get back at minimum that many votes, ideally more, to make it worth throwing away an entire minority group. Which, again, as we have discussed. 0 indication of that getting even a single moderate vote, in exchange for risking a good chunk of trans/queer community votes.
Unless. The Democrats are NOT making utilitarian decisions, but rather, dogmatic ones. Namely: they do not like trans/queer people, and see this as a hostage situation in which they can stop vocalizing any support for those communities while still being elected into office, thus manufacturing consent for throwing that minority group under the bus completely.
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u/koreqwzfp 8h ago
Why are you holding like 2 Democrats opinions as representative of all of them?
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u/marzgamingmaster 5h ago
Why are you holding like 2 progressive's opinions as representative as all of them?
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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 9h ago
A utilitarian interpretation of the most recent electoral results would show that the last 5 presidential elections were all won by non-incumbents candidates that campaigned on making radical changes to our existing system.
So when the democrats run another moderate institutionalist candidate on a platform of getting "back to normal politics" is choosing the losing side.
People wanted changes in 2008 and they did not get them which gave us 2016 where people again voted for radical changes to government and then in 2020 we "returned to normal" which sucked for everyone. Then 2024 came and people still want that radical change they asked for 16 years ago.
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u/Broshevik- 13h ago
I would guess trans folk and the people who care about them would care about anti-trans ads from the politicians who should be supporting them. Why on earth would they vote for someone who doesn't represent them and is actively insulting them?
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u/Irisvirus 11h ago
Yeah, it’s deeply dehumanizing to see these ads, because it has a material impact on me, and a lot of the people I deeply care about. I’m an ultra frequent voter and I’m at the point where I will vote for any anti trans candidate.
Every American trans person is deeply aware of how the Labour Party descended into transphobia and we’re all terrified of that happening here.
So if Democrats don’t win by punching down on a consistent Democratic voting bloc then maybe they have calculated that move better. Why would conservative voters not choose the most authentic version of their social views? It genuinely doesn’t make any sense. And somehow I need to be ok with people spewing the same rhetoric out from the opposite party? If they win on this transphobic narrative it will give more democratic candidates a pass to do the same. But sure. Let’s blame the results of outlandishly bad politicking of the Democratic Party on a small sliver of vulnerable voters. Because it’s never the party’s fault right?
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u/marzgamingmaster 10h ago
Literally had someone who was passing around the "Trans people need to suck it up, it's what has to happen, it's just this one time to win over moderates, it's not that big a deal, you just need to learn how real politics work" rigamarole, and when the Labor Party got mentioned, they went "what is the Labor Party? That doesn't have anything to do with Democrats."
These libs have done 0 research and know nothing about how politics work, in spite of insisting they are impartial paragons of Real Polotik. Someone on Twitch or YouTube said it and they're just parroting it.
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u/liquifiedtubaplayer 13h ago
Perpetual victim over here.
Progressives are ride or die with the party and talk to the same consultants the moderates do.
They all want the party to be in power
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u/7figureipo California 12h ago
Centrists: "Lefties don't vote for us or vote for third parties and constantly sabotage democrats. They suck and nobody likes them!"
Progressives: "Er, actually that's not true. Also compromise is a two-way street. You can't ask us to compromise on literally everything and not throw at least a bone once in a while"
Centrists: "See?! Purity testing! Can we please stop this infighting 🥺 It just hurts democrats!"
... I'm so completely over this toddler-like approach to the discourse and politics from centrists and moderates. It's identical to what Republican trolls do, and I'm just sick of it.
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u/aylio 9h ago
Yeah I'm also against this toddler like approach. "Can't vote for bomb bomb bombala harris", "we're not Dems we're DSA", "scratch a Dem and a fascist bleeds", "we are looking to destroy the Dems and replace them with a new party", but then you all wonder why the Dems wont work with you and why do all the progressives and social Democrats keep betraying us after the primaries. When the toddlers spend the entire time saying that they're not allies to the Democrats and portraying them as the worst people possible, Dems will rightfully say fk you when you demand they be your allies without compromise. It is just the dumbest and sickest joke in the world and it comes back every 2 years.
But hey maybe if you keep protesting Mamdani you won't get "betrayed" again. But no that will never happen because you guys can't even be allies to those closest to you or each other.
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u/BernieBrother4Biden 15h ago
Silly article, the margins obviously matter and always have. We won't have a wave year environment for Democrats every election.
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u/Continental__Drifter 15h ago
Describing center-right democrats as "center left" - yeah no thanks, New Republic; I can already tell what perspective this article is coming from and I'm sick of this bullshit.
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u/CanAlwaysBeBetter 12h ago edited 11h ago
Lol
The New Republic publishes some decent long form journalism but everything they push on social media is Clickbait telling progressives what they want to hear
Saying this still isn't far enough left for you is basically just telling that you live in an echochamber
Edit: lol at the classic reply then block so you get the last word, definitely not living in an echo chamber
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u/Continental__Drifter 12h ago
Calling capitalists leftists is just factually wrong.
If you think this is evidence of living in an echo chamber, I'm afraid you're projecting, or just have no idea of what "left" even means in the political context.
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u/mournthologist 11h ago
Wish we'd stop calling them centrists and just call them corporate PAC aligned non-GOP politicians
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u/sohaibhasan1 15h ago
Are they prospering? Moderates in swing states like Roy Cooper and Ossof are dominating. Moderates in red states like Sherrod Brown, Talarico, Peltola, Turek are showing signs they might break through. Meanwhile AES is calling in support from Kamala Harris and Obama to shore up Michigan, and Maine, which Harris won, is looking like a tossup.
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u/TemporalColdWarrior 14h ago
Brown is a progressive populist. I wouldn’t really call him a moderate outside of fringe issues.
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u/ennuiinmotion 14h ago edited 14h ago
Every race you described has wildly different circumstances. In Michigan Sayed has led every poll but the risk of anti-Muslim sentiment is always there. There's no real indication that his economic views are hurting him. Almost all of the ads against him are dancing around calling him a terrorist.
In Maine, they had a relatively late switch to a boring candidate. In Georgia Ossoff has been popular and just continued to be. In North Carolina they have a popular ex-Governor with name recognition running against a bad candidate. In Texas, Talarico isn't exactly a moderate but isn't exactly a progressive firebrand. Plus, we have no idea if he can win. Just hard to draw any conclusions at this point.
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u/EitherSpite4545 12h ago
Alaska is also a shit show as there's a lot of "both sides bad" that really REALLY isn't helped by Peltola being blue Susan Collins/Murkowski (whomst we are also tired of her performative voting but she isnt up this election).
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u/sohaibhasan1 14h ago
Yes every race is different always. But one consistent piece is that the candidates least perceived as being too far left are the ones outperforming the state baseline.
You say Cooper and Ossof are popular like that happened in a vacuum. It's in large part because they've tacked to the middle.
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u/11minspider 13h ago
Dont count your chickens before they hatch... this happens every time the Progressives get hyped up about canidates. VICTORY IS ASSURED! The headlines blare, and then...
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u/Gosox1918 10h ago
Pretending this is something unique to the progressives is weak. This is endemic across the Democrats. But you do a good job of illustrating the central theme of the article.
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u/11minspider 10h ago
Oh definitely, but its particularly prevalent on this sub. This sort of article is all to common and it has people taking it at face value
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u/WebbityWebbs 12h ago
If you don't like centrist democrats then get your behind to you local democratic party and start taking it over. People who are sick and tired of the democrats could take the entire party over easily, if they just showed up and took over.
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u/ctbowden North Carolina 11h ago
You're not wrong, but as someone who's shown up ... it can be daunting and a long process.
Lots of folks will get there and find Robert's Rules of Order and Parliamentary Procedure byzantine. You may feel out of your element and stupid the first time you see those weaponized against you by more experienced "players." Fight through this discomfort and see if you can find like minded folks who can guide you. Worst mistake of my high school career apparently was not joining the FFA....
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u/Bubbly-Two-3449 California 13h ago
Should we call them centrist Democrats? Or simply corrupt Democrats that are on the take.
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u/StillFly100 11h ago
As a centrist, I’ll vote D 98% of the time. Not sure I can bring myself to support any DSA candidates if they ever come around though. Might hold my nose for them though, we’ll see.
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u/platinumarks 11h ago
Nice to see that that's the one principle you'll have, not anything really important
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u/StillFly100 11h ago
You don’t know anything about my principles. I’m not a fan of some DSA messaging. I like some of their positions, but also dislike others
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u/Radically-Peaceful 11h ago
Are you a 'Centrist' from before the center moved much further to the right?
What does center mean to you now?
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u/StillFly100 11h ago
It means I support some positions on both sides of the aisle, but will more often vote D unless they’re too far left for my liking.
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u/americanspirit64 14h ago
To believe that our current Democratic Party operates in a different way than the Republicans in how they operate is just wrong. Trump is driving the Republican party, just like Hillary and Obama is driving the Democratic party. This comparison is the same, in both cases, both parties are being run by the most extreme faction of their respective parties. The Democratic party isn't a middle of the road Centrist party, it is run by extreme Neo-liberals, a fringe or 'new' group of extremely conservatively economic liberals who embrace American Capitalism for their own benefit, while screwing the working class, as they massage the backs of corporations with scented oils. Those scented oils come in the form of votes supporting a corporate capitalist structure that allows them to destroy the middle class.
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u/Ok_Mixture4917 14h ago
This is particularly stupid ai slop
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u/americanspirit64 11h ago
I feel particular sad, for someone like you, who first thinks this is AI slop and second can't see the forest for the trees. There is nothing particular stupid about what I said just because you discount it. You are living in a bubble that won't allow you to think outside the box, in divergent ways. ways that allows you to see life from another's shoes. This is no different than the way Trump supporters feel.
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u/Ok_Mixture4917 11h ago
both parties are being run by the most extreme faction of their respective parties. The Democratic party isn't a middle of the road Centrist party, it is run by extreme Neo-liberals
Sure, then you'll have no problem demonstrating what extreme means in this context
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u/americanspirit64 6h ago
Sure, I could demonstrate that all day as extreme means Obama had the chance when he first came into office and controlled both houses he decided not to codify Roe vs Wade, even thought that was a campaign promise. Look where we are now. He also economically could have extracted a price for bailing the big banks out and he didn't. Look where we are now. Under his Presidency in 08-09-10 their were more foreclosures then under any President in US history, more than during the Great Depression, as he passed no laws helping homeowners who the banks blamed for the mortgage crisis, when it was totally the bankers and Wall Streets problem. The one thing he did is Cash for Clunkers, which ruined the used car market in America by removing over a million low priced cars, still in running condition that working class families relied on. This caused a massive shortage of good used cars in America which used cars dealers took advantage of too raise used car prices astronomically across the US that lasted for longer that two decades. He also compromised on the ACA, giving a handout to insurance companies on the marketplace. Then finally was worse disaster, is he endorsed Hillary in 2016, which gave us the first Trump Presidency. As even Trump said during that Primary election that Bernie was the candidate he was afraid who had the chance to beat him, but Obama was way to Conservative to endorse him. If he had our world would be very different now, as Trump would have never won.
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u/Ok_Mixture4917 14h ago
both parties are being run by the most extreme faction of their respective parties. The Democratic party isn't a middle of the road Centrist party, it is run by extreme Neo-liberals
Sure, then you'll have no problem demonstrating what extreme means in this context
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u/NYPizzaNoChar 14h ago
Hillary Clinton and Obama are supposed to be the most "extreme" faction of the Democratic party? Oh man, are you ever lost in the ozone.
Obama is a tiny little bit left of center. Hillary is center, period. Both of them are pretty much status quo candidates.
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u/americanspirit64 11h ago
If you compared either of them to FDR you would quick see they are right center.
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