Minority report 2002

[u/Aravind_sk2]

Plot hole

How could Lamar's plan to frame Anderton actually work?

Before seeing the Precog vision, Anderton has no idea who Crow is, where he is, or that Crow has a photograph of Sean. Lamar only tells Crow to place the photograph in his room and wait.

So what causes Anderton to ever find Crow?

But if Anderton would never have found Crow without the Precog vision, how could the Precogs have predicted him killing Crow in the first place?

Precogs are manufacturing crimes that could never physically exist otherwise. Without the Precogs acting as a GPS navigation system for the killer, the murder rate for these setups would be absolute zero, because the killer doesn't even know the room exists

A Precog is supposed to predict a future event, not provide the information necessary to create that event. Otherwise, the Precogs aren't merely predicting crimes, they are effectively helping manufacture them.

[u/cardiffman100]

This isn't a plot hole, it's the entire point of the movie's plot.

[u/monkaypants → u/cardiffman100]

And this is why we get movies like "The End of Oak Street".

[u/Aravind_sk2 → u/cardiffman100]

Can you explain from Lamar's perspective, like he randomly decided to arrange a set up and was like precogs will take care of the rest? Like lmaoo

[u/mormonbatman_ → u/Aravind_sk2]

Lamar knew that the precogs could reliably see future events. He knew that people trusted the precogs.

He used that knowledge create the precrime unit.

But Lamar also knew that the precogs were kidnapping victims and they didn't always agree on what they saw.

He knew that the public would lose confidence in precrime if it discovered either of those facts.

So, Lamar sent an assassin to kill Agatha's mother. Then, after the assassin was arrested by precrime, Lamar murdered her the same way he had directed the assassin to.

He didn't count on Agatha. Agatha recalled her vision of her mother's death in front of John Anderton, who began investigating it.

Lamar hired a man to create a context that would cause John Anderton to kill him when he learned that John was investigating Agatha's mother's death.

randomly

It wasn't random.

Lamar didn't know whether John would kill Crowe (or not) but he knew John was capable of killing the man he believed had murdered his son and he knew precrime would identify this, which would prevent John from discovering what he had done to Agatha's mother.

[u/Aravind_sk2 → u/mormonbatman_]

I understand, but my question is how did Lamar know precogs will predict the crime that wouldn't have happened otherwise. In other words what would precogs do if Lamar hired 100 different people for the set up, and what would precogs show them. Even though Anderson would kill crow he wouldn't have killed crow normally cause he doesn't know him. so the precogs aren't supposed to manufacture a crime that was never gonna happen. It would be plausible, if Lamar made sure who Crow is, then it would make sense but all he did was, hired a guy and asked him to wait.

[u/mormonbatman_ → u/Aravind_sk2]

how did Lamar know precogs will predict the crime that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

He and the woman who created the carnivorous plants had studied them and other children exposed to neuroin in utero extensively.

what would precogs do if Lamar hired 100 different people for the set up,

They would see murders committed by each of the people who intended to follow through.

And what would precogs show them.

The murders.

Even though Anderson would kill crow he wouldn't have killed crow normally cause he doesn't know him.

Right. Lamar created the conditions that would lead his drug addicted, mentally unstable lieutenant to kill a stranger.

o the precogs aren't supposed to manufacture a crime that was never gonna happen.

The precogs didn't manufacture the crime. They saw a crime that Lamar manufactured.

It would be plausible, if Lamar made sure who Crow is, then it would make sense but all he did was, hired a guy and asked him to wait.

That was what happened.

Lamar invented a child murderer called Leo Crow. He created evidence that Crow had murdered dozens of children including John Anderton's son. He did this with confidence that John Anderton would kill Crow if he found him.

I am not sure that you are giving credit to Agatha for showing the vision of Crowe,'s murder as a means of ultimately exposing Lamar - she chooses to out Anderton because she knows showing him this vision will show him that precrime is broken and that Lamar is a murderer.

The ontology here is the mindfuck that Philip K Dick was interested in.

[u/Illustrious-Hope-533]

Because it's a bootstrap paradox.

[u/Aravind_sk2 → u/Illustrious-Hope-533]

I know it's bootstrap paradox, but how does Lamar know it will occur and all he had do was just arrange a set up and wait

[u/Illustrious-Hope-533 → u/Aravind_sk2]

Lamar didn't know the loop would occur, his plan was to send an anonymous tip and wait. But the Precogs pre-empted things by generating the vision before he could even send it.

[u/Aravind_sk2 → u/Illustrious-Hope-533]

That makes sense. But I don't recall where they say Lamar would drop an anonymous tip in the movie. Maybe I would have missed it

[u/Illustrious-Hope-533 → u/Aravind_sk2]

The movie doesn't spell out the tip on screen, but that's the logic of the trap. The film just expects us to fill in the blanks. He sets it up to drop the info, but PreCrime pre-empts him and delivers the location first.