r/playrust • u/FieryRally-rLuV • 6h ago
Image Why introduce a system to immediately nerf it an update later?
https://commits.facepunch.com/r/rust_reboot/main/QualiTeaOfLife_Nerf
I refuse to believe that it took you only 2~ weeks to decide that the new bonuses provided to teas is NOW suddenly a problem. Just doing the math you'd realized the new combos you created would boost Teas even further. (example: 2x+ on Ore Teas)
If a bonus on say Ore Tea above 50% yield was such a problem then who's decision was it to introduce all of the new teas/pie variants in the first place?
If feels a bit shit to have the baseline of Teas nerfed and the only way to get back to that is to interact with the new system you created. Which you actually are only getting to the yield you still have the duration reduction from the Creamy tea variants. Assuming the wording is correct this doesn't just pertain to Ore Teas, which is the most obvious offender of the new scaling.
Nerfing Crafting Quality would be no sense as it was never scaled by the new system. "Rad Removal" teas is misleading because that's not what the teas even do. No one uses the Anti-Radiation teas because they're absolutely useless. Unless you want to specifically use it at Launch puzzle to reduce the radiation damage you'd receive.
This is a weird strategy to get people to interact with the new a powerful system only to rug pull it the next update. It's one thing to reign in the bonuses of the new variants as opposed to gutting the whole system.
Edit: I want to clarify something as it seems people are misunderstanding my argument. I have zero issue with them wanting to nerf specific teas for various reasons. If they wanted to nerf Ore Teas to damper sulfur generation then so be it. I'd have zero issues with this. My actual issue is a blanket nerf to the other 7 teas which have nothing to do with sulfur generation. We can all see and agree the current values are absolutely bonkers. Why is the solution a blanket nerf to teas as a whole?
Edit 2: I'd like to clarify why I am frustrated with this change. When I first posted this I was quite upset and didn't quite clearly get what I was frustrated about across. I am not upset that they are nerfing teas, truthfully some of them were honestly ridiculous.
What I am frustrated about is how these nerfs came to be. Facepunch spent the time and resources to create this new avenue for farming. Albeit at the cost of power creep, which is a little hard to avoid when adding new systems to an existing one. The current wipe you will be rewarded with engaging with it with some new powerful teas and pies, awesome. Good game design, reward players for engaging with your system.
However, moving forward all teas are getting a baseline nerf, even ones that aren't even problematic. Perhaps you have a strategy you use with off meta teas and enjoy that gameplay loop. Unfortunately it's no longer as strong without even more time investment.
Putting together a farm was already a big investment you had to make. Proper base location with water access or spending tarp to put up water catches on your base. Going out and getting seeds so you can make your own clones. Spending time in or close to your base to efficiently make these clones. Working on getting a T2 so you can use water pumps unless you want to manually water every planter. Then when you finally get these clones you spend even more time cloning the clones so you can plant for actual profit. You proceed to wait 1.5h~ to harvest those precious berries/cloth. You are rewarded with a powerful boost you can either use yourself or even sell.
Now you not only have to do all that you'll need to micro manage cows and their milk/cream timer. Even with the proposed changes to cows milk adding up to 3 charges you'll still need to baby sit them if you want to efficiently procure Milk/Cream. At least with berries you can go fuck off for over an hour and not need to worry about your berries as they need that time to grow. You do all this extra work for effectively the same yield as you had before.
I understand most people don't even engage with this system as you're all just a bunch of PvP chads. I actually enjoy engaging with this system and it leaves a shit taste in my mouth knowing I'll be doing even more micro managing for no extra gain.
tl;dr: The livestock update introduced more work and time investment into making teas/pies. FP gave us very strong teas, some even very problematic with their numbers. In response to this there is a blanket nerf to all teas, teas that I imagine most people don't even know exist or realistically use. Now moving forward you are expected to do even more work to get to the same result you had prior to this update. And this nerf doesn't even address the sulfur acquisition of clans. Prior to this update they were getting 525 sulfur per node, current update it's 639, next update it'll be 562. A loss of 77 sulfur per node from the livestock but prior to this update it's still an extra 37. So no, this doesn't slow down clans they're still going to raid you and the server. What this does do is affect everyone else that wanted or decided to engage with this system.
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u/eastlin7 2h ago
”I refuse to believe that it took you only 2~ weeks to decide”
Ok well keep your head in the sand then.
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u/FieryRally-rLuV 2h ago
Perhaps it was poor phrasing on my part. What I was trying to get across is this should have been obviously a problem from the get go. This isn't me "sticking my head in the sand".
They spent all the time and resources creating a new system to buff teas/pies even further beyond. To the point that you are getting 2x rates in Vanilla on Ore Teas. Only to turn around and immediately nerf the problem they just created and exasperated.
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u/TotalImagination4408 2h ago
It was pretty insane that you coul get +113% with a tea and pie, and I feel like it was long overdue anyway.
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u/FieryRally-rLuV 1h ago
Long overdue would imply longer than say the 1~ month this update was available to test, including staging. Which even with the nerfs it'll still be better than the old Pure Tea + Bear Pie combo.
This nerf doesn't actually address the concerns of sulfur being super easy to get. All they did was way overbuff these combos and now are nerfing it to slightly above old rates.
If you thought prior to this update it was a problem, well guess what, it still is.
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u/TotalImagination4408 35m ago
I meant teas and pies in general.
Some teas and pies are basically useless while others make farming stupidly easy.
Definitely needed addressing.
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u/FieryRally-rLuV 12m ago
Yeah, but this doesn't actually address it. It's still just as good as it was prior to the update on the top end. If no other changes are made to numbers you'll still end up with a 87.5% yield with the Creamy Ore Tea + Creamy Bear Pie with this change. For reference you were looking at a 75% yield with the old Combo.
So not only did they not actually change anything in regard to the farming teas but they also nerfed the underutilized/under-powered teas.
The biggest difference is the time sink required to get the cream which the clans/large groups won't give a shit about.
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u/aLegionOfDavids 5h ago
Looks like Facepunch are using the Bungie method of “balancing” lmao.
This whole livestock update has been, in my opinion, a poorly implemented disaster from day one that I as a dev myself can’t believe ever made it past testing.
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u/harman097 5h ago
Ok, don't disagree, BUT you have to admit, Cowpocalypse 2026 was fucking hilarious.
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u/TheSeb97 3h ago
I 100% agree. And honestly there was no good way to balance it. What they are doing now is make teas NOT worth the effort anymore. Pure teas alone were fine. Adding bear pies was questionable but still ok. Creamy variants were completely busted.
Solution: Remove creamy variants. Their solution makes the pure teas, which already are a lot of work, not worth it anymore, and add extra steps to get the same performance you had before. O have done some farming wipes in the past, but honestly now I can't be bothered anymore. With the cows you have to babysit them all the time to get alle the milk, and surprisingly, I also want to do other stuff in rust
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u/JVIesmerized 5h ago
At this point why add cows lol, shouldn't just worked on smthn else and left teas as is, no change anyhow
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u/Hungry-Lake 5h ago
why even bring creamy teas if its the same as pure. it was perfect before or Balanced atleast
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u/Existing_Doughnut985 5h ago
Sounds like you’re just mad you can’t do whatever tea method you’ve been doing.
It’s game balancing, you don’t get the data after 24 hours. I’m not surprised you “refuse to believe” something you have zero experience in.
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u/FieryRally-rLuV 4h ago
Sounds like you’re just mad you can’t do whatever tea method you’ve been doing.
You got me! I'm totally just mad because I can't abuse some niche interaction and they're nerfing it! :(
It’s game balancing, you don’t get the data after 24 hours. Perhaps I wasn't precise enough in my post. I wouldn't even begin to argue with your statement as that wasn't the argument I was even making in the first place.
The point I was making is it doesn't take a genius to realize buffing teas to give you 2.1x Ore Yield is not a good idea. There is something called foresight and I would expect a Dev team that has been balancing Rust for years to have it.
The whole 2 weeks statement is about how we're 2 weeks into this wipe and they're now committing this change. My refusal to believe was how they couldn't have the foresight to see the values they pushed out could be a problem.
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u/roxban 1h ago
so are you upset they nerfed? or are you upset they didn't do it faster? what are you even complaining about lol, anyone who worked on a game dev know this, that you need time to gather data, and act accordingly.
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u/FieryRally-rLuV 1h ago
What was the point of introducing this new system to buff teas if they're going to immediately turn around and nerf them. Might as well not have wasted the time and resources on this.
Let's buff Ore Teas maximum yield from +75% to 113%, now we need to wait and see the end result to figure out it might have some knock on effects. Seriously? No way they could have seen it coming.
Truthfully I'm more upset that they'd introduce a system, have people engage with it for a month because it's new and exciting. Then the next update nerf ALL teas across the board to compensate for the overall buff Teas got. Now instead of engaging with the system and enjoying it. You'll have a sour taste in your mouth knowing you are putting it more work to get to the same end result you have prior to the update.
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u/Excellent-Beach-2062 4h ago
sorry could you tell those of us in back what your credentials at facepunch are because you're so confident in how they're balancing their game
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u/thecoffeemann 5h ago
There are so many examples of this with recent updates. Now you have to play 70 hours to have the same experience that took 40 two months ago. It might slow clans down by 30 minutes but solo/duo/trio get mega punished.
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u/stickystrips2 6h ago
So we're back to where we started but now we have cows. What a great use of development time and resources /s
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u/HempInjecter 6h ago
Because its a kinda good way to balance
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u/FieryRally-rLuV 5h ago
Numerically there isn't an issue with it. From a design perspective, it's terrible.
People would bitch and whine if they had done this change without the cows existing in the first place. But nowhere near as what they are currently doing.
There are many facets in which Teas could have been nerfed. This was all thrown out the window in favor of power creeping players only to immediately nerf it the following update.
The irony of this change is Clans/Large groups won't care about this nerf. They already dedicate their player(s) to certain roles. In this case their farmer(s) will just get a cow factory running and get back to generating that sweet sweet yellow crack dust to raid you and the server. In fact it'll be even better than before, excluding the current percentages.
50% Yield from a Pure Creamy Ore Tea + 75% from a Cream Bear Pie results in a 187.5% yield. For comparison the old combo would get you to a 175% yield. The biggest downside here is a loss of 3 minute duration of the tea. Though they already pump out a fuck load of teas so it won't realistically matter to them.
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u/hairycookies 6h ago
This is fine with me honestly the teas are a cool addition to the game but they are 100% a major component in servers dieing off too quickly.
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u/FieryRally-rLuV 5h ago
I was unaware that Warming and Max Health teas were causing servers to die off faster.
This post isn't about a particular nerf to a specific tea. It's about the blanket nerf to ALL teas. For reference they are currently 10 different teas. We can exclude two of these teas, crafting/anti-rad, as they are not being touched.
That leaves you with Ore, Wood, Scrap, Harvesting, Cooling/Warming, Healing and Max Health Teas. You could realistically argue two of these teas are problematic in regards to raiding. That would be Ore and Wood. As you need both Charcoal and Metal/Sulfur to create explosives.
In regards to the low grade there are other and better/ more reliable ways of obtaining it than using a Harvesting Tea on Animals/Fish.
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u/hairycookies 5h ago
I don't give a damn about Warming Teas and Max Health teas don't break the game like pure ore teas do.
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u/FieryRally-rLuV 4h ago
I am glad we can both agree on that. Then why is it they're also getting nerfed because Ore Teas are THE problem.
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u/shortsbagel 6h ago
Facepunch: Hey everyone here is this new system, we want you all to use it all the time cause it fucking sweet.
Players: Use the system.
Facepunch: Not like THAT!!! Nerf nerf nerf
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u/mikeu117 5h ago
They really just want you to have to spend as much fucking time as possible on this game, have to make teas and farm cows just to get where you were before the livestock update 🤣 glad I took a break from rust for a while
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u/Leviwarkentin 4h ago
I think nerfing duration would be far better then efficiency. Even lasting 10 minutes would be fine, you just need to carry a few on you for a fam run. This would help buff tea farming and reduce raids.
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u/Turbulent-Opposite12 3h ago
It’s pretty common for new features (across all games) to release in overbuffed state. That deliberate overtune drives mass trial which means tons of data off rip, allowing the devs to quickly balance based on real, in-game conditions.
Debatable if that was the case here, but it’s a very well known practice in general.
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u/inkopwnz 51m ago
I dont think most people understand how much work it is to setup the whole thing to get creamy teas. I build farm bases almost all my wipes as a solo, but this whole cow update kinda killed my motivation, now i just buy teas from outpost or just raid other small farms. Seeing the nerfs to pure teas i dont see myself setting up another farm any time soon specially as a solo
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u/FieryRally-rLuV 19m ago
You're probably right. They only see the end result and declare it a problem, which it might be. A lot of the posts have been about how they have needed a long term nerf. But this commit doesn't change anything in the top end. The clans will still interact with the system because it's the most efficient and most powerful.
But the solo and small groups that want to engage with this system will now always have to engage with the livestock if they want the best. I imagine this change will result in less over shops selling teas and it'll only be the large groups doing it as they can spare the player(s) needed to upkeep it.
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u/Bandit_Raider 6h ago
Wait they nerf teas normally too???
I made a joke about the new update being good for a month til it gets nerfed, but I was serious of course.
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u/aoibhinn-mw 3h ago
Tbf teas have always been over powered and every addition to the food / tea system kind of power creeps it a lot.
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u/kozlov-tbh 3h ago
Where is the power creep? The upkeep tax was just added to reduce base sizes/incentivize more farming. If you're paying more in upkeep but farming nodes more efficiently, it pretty much evens out for groups. I don't see how that's a net gain.
Players spend more time interacting with the new animal system -> rewarded with extra benefits from teas. Now the devs are taking a step back, and interacting with the new system feels somewhat redundant just to go back to old rates for doing more work.
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u/Suspicious_Amoeba697 6h ago
Have you been playing the game the last few years? It’s an endless cycle. They just pump out unpolished content for the sake of having a monthly update
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u/Ajudantee 6h ago
this system needed to be gutted for a while now, it should have never gotten to the point where you get 100% with pie and ore tea. Ore teas wre the precursor to easy raids and a nerf to it is a huge win for everybody that wants the servers to last longer than wipe day