r/news • • 1d ago

Wyoming grad student accused of poisoning colleague arrested after attempting to flee to China

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/article/wyoming-grad-student-accused-of-poisoning-colleague-arrested-after-attempting-to-flee-to-china/
2.5k Upvotes

130 comments sorted by

885

u/Self-Comprehensive 1d ago

Wait there's another Chinese poisoner?

386

u/Dramatic_Substance36 1d ago

What the hell!? 2 Chinese university poisoners!?!

170

u/xBAMFNINJA 1d ago

This is the 3rd ive heard of this year. Li Xuming a phd student, was poisoning a family by injecting noxious liquid under their door. Wtf is going on with these fukn ppl?

53

u/metal079 17h ago

What's crazy is that guy didn't even get jail time or anything for poisoning a baby. He just got deported and that's that.

14

u/Secret_Cow_5053 13h ago

gotta wonder if there is a connection to the CCP?

16

u/xBAMFNINJA 12h ago

Nah, i just think these particular folk were raised to be callous and to do whatever they need to get ahead or remove obstacles they see in their life. I see lots of ppl like this. Their parents never taught them to be empathetic about people having to live their lives around them; and to only crush goals and make money or they will be a huge disappointment and treated like shit.

12

u/Secret_Cow_5053 12h ago

said this in another thread, but...

i'd rather look into it and be assured that the three cases are truely unrelated, than let there be an ongoing espionage campaign going on at our universities.

  1. we know that the CCP has installed clandestine police departments in foreign countries in the past
  2. we know that the CCP has no qualms against stealing research and exploiting copywrite infringement when it suits their purposes.

seems like this is something that should at least be considered

3

u/seanpbnj 10h ago

What does "hybrid warfare" mean to you? Cuz it should mean this.

130

u/Vepariga 1d ago

this is getting out of hand, now there are two of them!

33

u/JugglingRick 1d ago

There's a billion people in China so 2/1,000,000,000 seems like a good ratio to me.

38

u/realaccountissecret 1d ago

And not just the men; but the women, and the children too

-13

u/NotAPreppie 1d ago

I hate you for reminding me that cinematic suppository exists.

6

u/nanoray60 19h ago

I swear to god I thought I was reading the same article again, wtf is this.

-20

u/vmflair 14h ago

It's almost like inviting our enemies' students into our universities is a bad idea. There are Chinese spies riddled throughout our research institutes and corporations actively stealing secrets for the CCP. Good thing that the FBI under Kash Patel slashed staffing for investigations into this type of espionage.

16

u/AutomaticMedium8418 13h ago edited 11h ago

University research is typically going to be published for the whole world to see anyways, there is nothing that is supposed to be secret for national security purposes. A random guy with a computer in Iran, North Korea, Russia, China, or Afghanistan can view any published scientific articles online.

Some universities have special labs affiliated with the Department of Defense which do work on classified stuff and you need a clearance to work there.

Sensitive workplaces like defense companies and the US government affiliated labs are supposed to do background checks and they don't let workers from China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and Cuba work there

But because non-military university research is not classified stuff (and actually the opposite), US government allows universities to take grad students and postdoc researchers from wherever, and this is generally a net positive for US universities to have more access to talent and make US continue to be the world capital for science research

At the moment China is trying to develop its research universities and compete with US at attracting scientists from around the world, and encouraging most Chinese scientists to stay inside China.

So Chinese scientists leaving to go to US is mostly a good thing for America and bad for China. And the US government knows that, which is why they allow it

Of course there will be some spies among the international students and I acknowledge there is definitely CCP espionage in our universities, but it is still a net benefit for US to let in Chinese grad students

0

u/Secret_Cow_5053 13h ago

doesn't mean there isn't a motive there to sabotage research, or just hinder people the party considers disloyal

4

u/Mental_Amphibian1935 13h ago

Doesn’t mean there is a motive to do any of those things at all, either

-1

u/Secret_Cow_5053 12h ago

i'm not suggesting there is necessarily. i'm suggesting that three in the context of a relatively short period of time is a strange enough coincidence to look into what, if anything, is really going on.

i'd rather look into it and be assured that the three cases are truely unrelated, than let there be an ongoing espionage campaign going on at our universities.

  1. we know that the CCP has installed clandestine police departments in foreign countries in the past

  2. we know that the CCP has no qualms against stealing research and exploiting copywrite infringement when it suits their purposes.

seems like this is something that should at least be considered.

•

u/DefyDemandDispose 40m ago

ongoing espionage campaign going on at our universities.

jesus fucking christ

do you even hear how insanely paranoid you sound? you were probably one of the same people worried that Muslims were infiltrating the US and trying to 'Islamify' America back in the day weren't you?

1

u/AutomaticMedium8418 11h ago edited 11h ago

I’m not saying there are no government agents among Chinese international students but the proportion is low because most of them are just regular researchers who come here to advance their own careers.

Research and job prospects in US is a lot better than China (although China is trying to catch up and want to keep more of their researchers in the country)

0

u/vmflair 12h ago

I worked at a university research institute for more than a decade so I'm very familiar with how research is conducted here in the US. Espionage by Chinese students at US universities is a major threat and you can read more about it here in the FBI report on the issue.

7

u/AutomaticMedium8418 12h ago edited 11h ago

The FBI article you linked did say the vast majority of the Chinese researchers in US have no threat at all.

It’s not unique to this administration but the FBI under every previous administration has allowed international grad students from sensitive countries like China to come over.

And the FBI are more aware about the current state of espionage than the average person. So if letting Chinese grad students into US was not a net benefit for America and American universities, they would not be allowing it.

Both China and US are in a competition for scientific talent worldwide so China actually wants more of its researchers to stay rather than leave for US. That’s why US is pretty open to taking in Chinese researchers because it is taking talent away from China. A large portion of Chinese grad students who get PhD in US end up staying in America instead of going back to China

197

u/pponmypupu 1d ago

Wait, this is a separate case from the other poisoning case? what's with all the poisoning of colleagues?

77

u/Allopurinlol 1d ago

Different case. This one’s in Wyoming

19

u/KidOcelot 1d ago

Other one is in Berkeley CA, but that dude got off due to lax laws for criminals.

121

u/Bluechariot 1d ago

Nope, they got off because the district attorney offered an overly generous plea deal, which contributed to her getting impeached.

20

u/KidOcelot 1d ago

Criminal DA letting criminals go 🫩

…im tired boss

-8

u/Bluechariot 1d ago

Nobody said she was criminal. 

21

u/KidOcelot 1d ago

As a Bay Area resident, that specific DA has a record of letting criminals go, either on lighter charges or charges dropped.

That DA is already abedding. Might as well be criminal imo

3

u/lacegem 17h ago

I was doing a little reading on her (Pamela Price) the other day. She wanted to avoid prison time for three gang members who shot a toddler. She's been accused/sued several times for anti-Asian discrimination, and the toddler was Asian while the shooters weren't...

And she still got 25% of the vote in the recent election to re-elect her. So clearly this is a positive track record for a significant number of voters in the area.

-4

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 21h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/KidOcelot 1d ago

normal people get hurt due to incompetent people in power.

1

u/TheOutsideWindow 1d ago

Fortunately, in the eyes of U.S. law, ignorance is not a viable or valid defense.

1

u/ioioooi 2h ago

Pamela Price is 100% a criminal.

4

u/MCStarlight 1d ago

Meanwhile a guy in MD got 25 yrs in prison for putting his semen and urine all in his co-workers’ stuff at the office.

48

u/AutomaticMedium8418 1d ago edited 1d ago

Culture in research labs can be very competitive sometimes, but having worked with labs (at US universities) with lots of Chinese graduate students and run by Chinese PIs, they can be especially intense in terms of workload and competition.

People of all nationalities have conflicts in labs but it seems to be Chinese graduate students who have the most cases of trying to poison their colleagues

4

u/dogs_gt_cats 13h ago

Corporate R&D as well. And also, weirdly brutal towards other Chinese and Taiwanese expats.

I was doing a product build with a Taiwanese woman, and we were paired with a Chinese researcher. He treated me like gold, and treated her like absolute dogshit. I had to bring her along with me to every opportunity he offered because it wasn't fair, and he was not so happy about that.

One of the weirdest things about working in a.large multicultural corporation was learning to tiptoe around cultural and ethnic divides.

8

u/munchanything 1d ago

Seems like it.

This kind of thing isn't actually new.  I saw a documentary about something similar years ago.  These two women had both learned under a a guy named Pai Mei, who was pretty famous in his field.  There was some drama between them, and one of the ladies poisoned Pai Mei's fish soup.

Crazy thing is, the other lady was pretty violent and tried to kill the lady who poisoned the fish soup.

3

u/Faulig 14h ago

The poisoner should have kept an eye out.

2

u/composedofidiot 20h ago

This all seems fairly typical in academia

9

u/Proxymanity 1d ago

Perhaps this is the beginning of another "viral tiktok trend"

2

u/MeepleMaster 1d ago

Are the clowns back in the woods?

4

u/Proxymanity 1d ago

Nah, they've moved into the government

1

u/Ahelex 1d ago

Which is why it helps to maybe take a literary analysis course or two as well.

Apparently, they took "viral" literally :P

1

u/hospitalizedGanny 1d ago

tiktok coffee trendz

3

u/damiana8 1d ago

And both Chinese

1

u/sleeplessinreno 1d ago

“London calling”

1

u/MCStarlight 1d ago

Fr. What is going on over there?!

365

u/zubumafeau 1d ago

2 years probation, 1 day time served is the standard I believe.

120

u/Dangeryeezy 1d ago

Along with expungement

-13

u/nicolauz 1d ago

This is a different case.

66

u/Aggressive_Sky8492 1d ago

Yeah and the comment they’re replying to is referencing that other case

135

u/UserLesser2004 1d ago

Another Chinese college student poisoning? Come on now man.

357

u/uraniumingot 1d ago

Wang failed her first attempt to defend her dissertation and became envious of her colleague’s success in discovering how to deliver RNA to human cells using bacteria.

I feel there is more to the story here. In almost all US PhD programs, you don't get to defend unless your advisor thinks you're ready to pass. The defense itself is just a formality. Someone failing their defense is almost unheard of. I've worked with people with half a brain that still managed to pass their defense. This is either a harsh/hostile advisor with a volatile narcissist, or a problematic student with serious issues.

551

u/darwinooc 1d ago

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe, just maybe, the person trying to poison another person and then flee the country just might be the one that has issues.

52

u/CCTXbeachbum 1d ago

Bold take.

13

u/TimothyMimeslayer 19h ago

Big if true.

43

u/donutknight 23h ago

I mean, it depends. Academia is a very competitive, high-pressure, and toxic place, and there are indeed a lot of narcissistic advisors.

I have a friend whose advisor had their 1:1 at 12:30 AM (not PM) and the daily team meeting at 9 AM, Monday to Saturday, and you have to physically stay in the lab in between.

20

u/cjdavda 19h ago

I once had a research advisor schedule me for a 1:1 at 4am. It wasn’t malicious though, the guy just never slept and forgot other people did.

16

u/A1000eisn1 18h ago

It's possible more than one person has issues.

49

u/incidencematrix 1d ago

Failures are not common, but they happen. I have been on two committees where the student did not pass (though in both cases they did revise and make it through later), and several for which significant revisions were needed. No one wants that outcome, and yes, the advisor will usually try to delay if the student is not ready. But sometimes there are overlooked (or concealed) problems that only crop up under cross-examination by the committee. You also get cases where someone who is not quite ready is pushing/being pushed by needing to take a job, funds/visa expiring, etc. They may convince everyone that things are going to come together by the defense....and usually, they do. However, miscalculations can happen. So yes, the defense is a formality when everything is in order. But it is also an inspection, and the wheels will come right off that wagon if it turns out that something is very wrong. Those kinds of interventions are not fun, but they are part of the job.

43

u/bilyl 1d ago

It’s not officially a “formality” and the people in this thread are being ridiculous. Your committee and advisor would never let you defend unless you were ready. It looks bad on EVERYONE if someone fails.

4

u/Gain-Western 1d ago

We had to take a US government civics test as part of requirements to pass high school in my state. 

It is a formality if you have been paying any attention in school. I could have taken it in my sleep since I had taken AP Government. 

People are making a mole out of a molehill because someone used “formality”. 

They need to go touch grass outside. 

6

u/polaris2acrux 1d ago

I don't know the policy of this department or university but it could be that the student was forced into defending because of timeline rules. That would be out of the advisor's hands, although it shouldn't even get to that point in terms of years of lack of progress. I have known of instances, not at my institution, in which students have not listened to their advisor and pushed for defending before they are ready or didn't follow any advice they received, or didn't make the necessary corrections in time and failed. It is rare though. 

3

u/obeytheturtles 19h ago

Hostile advisor, or just indifferent. If your primary advisor goes on sabbatical or something, a lot of times you just end up treading water if you aren't proactive about it. My first three years of grad school, I had my first advisor change schools (but stay on my committee), the second advisor retire and then die, and the third advisor just kind of assumed I knew what I was doing because my work was funded. It probably did set me back two full years, and I would not have finished without a lot of help from the world's best post-doc

115

u/AtomicBlastCandy 1d ago

I showed your comment to my partner who has a PhD and she died laughing at your thought that the defense is “just a formality”

211

u/Boring_and_sons 1d ago

It's "just a formality" only in the sense that by the time you're ready to defend, almost no one is in a position to fail. But the defense itself is not "just a formality" in the sense that you actually have to defend your thesis against a group of experts in your field who won't just let you pass for funsies. They take this seriously, as they should.

101

u/deputybadass 1d ago

Just here as another Ph.D in the sciences saying, yeah, if you fail your dissertation something is horrifyingly wrong.

If you’re outside academia hearing “it’s just a formality” may come off blasé, but it really is. By the time you’ve made it there, you should have a few papers that you’ve written yourself, dozens of hour long seminars and conference presentations, and the actual blood, sweat, and tears of ripping through the literature and failed experiments to claw your way to any real results. Yes, your committee will grill you, but you should be able to casually put them in their place by then.

This doesn’t mean it’s a “diploma mill” as the other person said. It means that most PhD programs will have booted you far sooner if your weren’t going to make it through. It’s hard work, and the defense is more a celebration than a trial at that point.

21

u/didsomebodysaymyname 1d ago

I don't know a lot about this, but if it's true almost no one fails their defense, then it is itself a formality, the real test was getting permission to defend.

19

u/Haunting_Cap_8312 1d ago

It isn't 'just a formality' in the sense that it's easy. But no advisor worth a damn is going to let you try unless they are 99% sure you are gonna pass. Because you've done the work, not because the work was easy. Which is why very very few students fail in the actual defense. The ones who would have failed just don't do it.

86

u/VortexMagus 1d ago

The fail rate is between 1-3% every year. That suggests that he is right that it is indeed a formality, in the sense that almost nobody fails.

I'm sure most all the students in the program take it seriously and put in a lot of work to make sure they don't fail, certainly, but I think if the professors in question really wanted you to fail the chances would be a lot higher.

38

u/Stock-Mission-7561 1d ago

Yeah but their "partner" said...

5

u/KenzieWitch 21h ago

Why the quotes?

1

u/Small-Explorer7025 7h ago

They're single

-9

u/Denelz 18h ago

braindead take of a person not in academia...

37

u/arand0md00d 1d ago

There is nothing new to the thesis committee at that point. They know what data you have and how you present it. There is even a pre defense meeting where they explicitly tell you these things. They will advise against defending if they will fail you. 

13

u/donutknight 1d ago edited 1d ago

It is. When I defended mine, my committee had already read my something-a-hundred-page thesis a couple of months earlier because no one can or wants to go through that stuff in depth in a 2-hour defense. They'll raise any hard questions before the defense so they don't waste anyone's time and make sure you are absolutely ready. And by the time of the defense, it is indeed just a formality.

46

u/uraniumingot 1d ago

As bad as it sounds, it is. You're at the point where you know the stuff, your advisor knows you know the stuff, your committee had AI summarize/skimmed the stuff, and you just need to go through an intense grilling of multiple hours to get your degree.

The questions asked will be rough, but they are deliberately structured that you either have an answer or know you have no answer. The questions are also intentionally steered that way by your advisor. You passed quals, advanced to candidacy, and it's just the last thing to do. If there are any structural issues with you getting that degree, you won't have been allowed to defend in the first place.

6

u/irwinlegends 1d ago

I think your experience may have been different than others, mate

24

u/arand0md00d 1d ago

Nah same for me.

3

u/TimothyMimeslayer 19h ago

Same for me as well

3

u/Itsamesolairo 13h ago

Same in most of the world.

Failing your defense reflects extremely poorly on your supervisors. It should never happen unless you defend against their recommendation.

The lone exceptions are places like the UK where failing the viva is a thing… and it still makes your supervisors look like idiots.

-23

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Gain-Western 1d ago

Diploma mills don’t do STEM Phd programs. 

It is also a reputation issue. What do you think the advisor’s peers would think if they have been sending candidates that fail in front of the committee?

9

u/Wiseduck5 18h ago

Your partner is dead wrong.

In my entire career I have seen one student fail their defense. Which caused a very awkward canceling of the party everyone plans for afterward because it is basically a foregone conclusion.

Your “real” defense is the last committee meeting and the actual defense is a show for the family.

0

u/Small-Explorer7025 7h ago

How are you holding up?

10

u/jxj24 1d ago

A defense is a rigorous examination of the candidate, their background, their project, and their vision of the future of their research. If you don't measure up, you don't pass.

So it is absolutely not a formality. And, yes, your advisor should not let you defend until they are sure you are ready. (Or simply want to get rid of you...)

I have been in academic research for over 20 years, and while I only knew one person whose defense failed (mostly over a large list of fixable items), this is certainly not unheard of.

32

u/uraniumingot 1d ago

A defense is a rigorous examination of the candidate, their background, their project, and their vision of the future of their research. If you don't measure up, you don't pass.

Unless something catastrophic happened in the last few years that caused a lack of progress, if someone doesn't measure up, they wouldn't have advanced to candidacy in the first place.

And, yes, your advisor should not let you defend until they are sure you are ready. (Or simply want to get rid of you...)

Hence anything that would've come up would have been addressed in the months leading up to it. The defense itself is not the time to address new issues. The actual defense is a formality, the process of getting there is not.

3

u/DGrey10 1d ago

Absolutely correct. Also, it is a committee not just the advisor. If the committee doesn't think you are ready....well you don't pass.

8

u/Haunting_Cap_8312 1d ago

> If the committee doesn't think you are ready....well you don't pass.

Which almost never happens.

2

u/TimothyMimeslayer 19h ago

The only person i  my defense who hadnt been to every one of my talks about my research from thr previous three years was the electrical engineer, the electrical engineer i had help from to model some stuff. They all knew what i was doing and why long before the dissertation

1

u/jewllybeenz 9h ago

Unless you have a bad advisor, they literally will not let you defend unless they’re nearly certain you’ll pass

22

u/Lazy-Main1782 1d ago

This one can go on what’s the fastest way someone fucked their life up.

5

u/TryJezzoWhyNot 22h ago

Not the sort of publicity the University of Wyoming wants to see. Bummer.

4

u/Vepariga 1d ago

the old poisoned tea routine

4

u/omahaspeedster 13h ago

Fled to China to take the bar exam.

13

u/booleandilemma 1d ago

So do I need to be concerned my coworker is trying poison me now or...?

31

u/AdCreepy5165 1d ago

Is your co-worker a Chinese national, and do you have pending patents? Time to hide all your napkins with the solution to perpetual motion!

-6

u/cupittycakes 1d ago

I mean, probably. Time to never leave your drinks or food accessible to anyone but you. Ummm... Maybe be extra cautious if they are of a particular nationality...?

Of course homegrown Americans poison too.

1

u/Usagiusagiusa 3h ago

Americans trying not being racist: Impossible.

4

u/doortoNarnia 1d ago

Hide yo kids hide yo wife cuz they poisoning everybody in here

3

u/in1gom0ntoya 16h ago

espionage seems to be the trend recently

2

u/theDinoSour 13h ago

Damn, what is with the poisoning stories?

Just yesterday, it was some dude in BC that had been poisoning a coworker with cadmium for yrs before they figured it out.

2

u/TurboLicious1855 11h ago

I was just coming to ask the same darn question! Are these grad student programs THIS competitive? Wow.

2

u/theDinoSour 10h ago

Yea, and that dude just had his felony record expunged…fucked up.

4

u/Kokophelli 1d ago

Are they taught this as children?

7

u/PastryAddiction 14h ago

Idk.. were Americans taught to shoot up schools?

3

u/berlenba 21h ago

State sponsored intellectual theft is my more insidious guess. Perhaps was a spy. Maybe even a long term plant? Chinese asset isn’t too far fetched

5

u/Pterocacti 16h ago

why would a chinese spy have a public feud with a person they were meant to steal from and kill, that doesn't make any sense

1

u/Beginning-Working-38 14h ago

Oh no, David Wu struck again!

-1

u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

1

u/SYNONYM_CRUNCH 16h ago

Might want to read the article.

This is a different case.