r/longbeach • u/Antique-Freedom-7891 • 2d ago
Discussion Dont Fall For The Fear Mongering The Rich Are Trying To Get Out Of Paying Taxes
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u/quercus-enjoyer 2d ago
prop 40 seems like an extremely sub-optimal solution to the problem but unfortunately there's no other solution proposed to not having people kicked off their health insurance when the fed funds dry up.
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u/I_LikeFarts 2d ago
And the mods let them spam the same political ad every day.
Just sick of seeing the same thread every day.
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u/One-Appointment3519 2d ago
I agree, NO on prop 40 being sub-optimal. It sounded great but I changed my mind after reading from several nonpartisan reviews. There are reasons why it's not well supported since it's going to cost a LOT to administer and for potential future lawsuits...it's a one-time tax! Maybe the Billionaires would leave CA, doubt all would, so possibly some future State revenue losses, maybe California could expand and come after the 99%, I doubt it. More work needs to be done on the Federal level once the current regime has been voted out.
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u/Giraff3 2d ago
The billionaires already dodge a ton of taxes. The last thing to be worried about is the blowback from a one time tax. Perfect is the enemy of good. That rationale is a big reason in my mind why Democrats continue to fail to gain government control. Vote yes and help the state survive. The state needs funds to shore up the loss of federal revenue and the 250 or so billionaires should pay their fair share.
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u/One-Appointment3519 2d ago edited 2d ago
Short-sighted thinking. This is a broader issue and the current proposal is relying on the emotions rather than logic. I wish it was a permanent tax that didn't cost the State so much, and there was a guarantee that it could only ever apply to billionaires, not the rest of us and that billionaires would not leave the state. But it doesn't.
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u/Giraff3 2d ago
Nothing in Prop 40 touches the middle class. I understand opponents are worried it will push billionaires out of the state, but leaving is a bigger undertaking than people give credit for. It means uprooting your life and moving somewhere like Texas, and anyone who keeps living in California after claiming otherwise will get caught and taxed.
Even if many feel California has declined from its peak, the perks of Los Angeles, Silicon Valley, and San Francisco are unmatched by other states, so I will call that bluff. Finally, currently, billionaires often pay a much lower share of their total income than low & middle-income households, since so much of their wealth is unrealized gains, and the current tax system does not properly account for this. Even if this tax is imperfect, it’s a step toward a more equitable society.
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u/One-Appointment3519 2d ago
Do the billionaire folk in California want an equitable society? And if they don't, then what happens to California's economy long-term if Prop 40 passes?
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u/EmRatio 15h ago
We get healthcare coverage for about 15 million people without any risk of losing coverage and services. Five years, enough to ride out the blatant and repeated attacks of the Trump Administration on California. His Big Ugly Bill put us in this situation to begin with.
Do you think this is the first attempt at a wealth tax? Congress has failed repeatedly. Any promising bill never reached a floor vote in our own State Legislature. Moreover, Prop 13 and Prop 6 has made passing most property tax laws nearly impossible.
This is a tax it now or never situation because there is no other mechanism for taxing this wealth.
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u/One-Appointment3519 14h ago edited 14h ago
Other states have tried, other countries, too. Seems like its success depends on the taxees in question are of the same mind (charitable) and willing to pay their share. So should we gett'em before they move out of state and permanently lose that general fund tax base for public services? Is it worth the risk to tax once? Will California manage the tax revenue and keep it growing? Some think so, others don't.
One of the top four billionaires, Sergey Brin, Alphabet/Google, spent the most to oppose Prop 40 and has moved out of California.
https://www.taxnotes.com/featured-analysis/wealth-taxes-past-and-present/2025/01/22/7q1bm
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u/EmRatio 14h ago
Yes, it really is a question of the taxbase and its no coincidence that this measure has such a narrow base. In any case, theres been nothing quite like Prop 40 being a one-time tax levied by a single state in the US.
I understand the capital flight argument, but I think it is exacerbated. The reason is straight forward. Ask yourself, what actually leads to wealth generation in California? Billionaires are accelerants not the fuel or source of wealth in the state. Billionaires generate their wealth on publicly funded research and talent. California has top, globally-ranked universities and publicly-funded institutions.
In the long term, California will be just fine.
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u/SnooDonuts3749 2h ago edited 1h ago
Thanks one-appoitment3519 for protecting the billionaires. Really great job.
I hope they remember you when they continue to make your everyday life more expensive so they can continue making money off wall street.
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u/One-Appointment3519 2h ago
Oh, please. Do yourself a favor and read more on the benefits and risks.
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u/SnooDonuts3749 2h ago
Nah. Benefit is the billionaires get taxed. Maybe they even leave California and housing prices come down? Probably won't though because for them it's not that much money and the weather is too good here.
Voting yes on prop 40.
No on 41 and 42.
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u/One-Appointment3519 1h ago
Billionaires leaving California and housing prices come down. That's all you understand? Their personal taxes pay a large part of State tax revenue for the General Fund...public services. They leave, we have a hole in the budget.
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u/SnooDonuts3749 1h ago
How many is they and how much do they pay in taxes every year?
You gotta have this stuff prepared if you want to argue to save the billionaires from a minor inconvenience.
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u/quercus-enjoyer 1h ago
Even if every billionaire left California how is that gonna drop housing prices? It’s like 300 people.
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u/NEEEEEEEEEEEET 2d ago
Maybe don't spend $42k/year per homeless person, another $5B on healthcare for illegal immigrants, and all the other bullshit. It is a spending problem not a tax problem.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
Tax the wealthy
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u/PlinyTheElderest 2d ago
This windfall for the healthcare industry will cause prices across the board to skyrocket, and you will pay through the nose to ensure doctors can upgrade their third yacht to a minimum 100+ ft long version.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
More lies... vote Yes on prop 40, No on props 41 & 42
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u/fnblackbeard 2d ago
Vote no on prop 40, giving more money to the government wont improve anyone's life, you're absolutely delusional to think otherwise
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
Sure bot
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u/PlinyTheElderest 2d ago
it's not a lie. You're begging for a wildfire to consume the trunk of the tree when you're only a leaf. You really think you'll fare well?
The truth of the matter is that healthcare professionals such as doctors, average a (self reported) take home pay of $469,000 in Los Angeles (https://www.doximity.com/reports/physician-compensation-report/2026). Note that this is only W2 reported income. Does not include business income (almost all doctors operate as an S-corporation) and the reported figures are what doctors choose to pay themselves out of their S-corps. Suffice it to say that they're squirreling away way more in this tax structure, and siphoning away a much larger figure than reported above. I personally have a close physician friend who was a C- student and is clearing between $1-2 million per year barely seeing any patients.
The sooner you realize that the entire healthcare industry is the country's biggest grift, the sooner you'll start actually succeeding in life.
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u/BoySmooches 1d ago
Blame private healthcare and private insurance. Unfortunately MFA is not in the ballot like it should be. In the meantime we should tax the ultra wealthy, obviously.
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u/PlinyTheElderest 1d ago
Private healthcare and private insurance works for doctors and nurses who receive 90% of the money.
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u/BoySmooches 14h ago
It's the CEOs that are overpaid. It's funny you say that because my friends that are doctors and nurses that are drowning in student debt. Debt that is skyrocketing because admin costs are insanely high compared to their income. This of course includes the ever rising cost of insurance because admin personnel would rather pad their pockets than work hospitals effectively. Then us chumps end up paying the price through insurance because admin doesn't care to keep costs down because the cost is passed directly to consumers who have no choice but to pay up or die.
Also idk about you but I would love if my doctors made good money. We should pay doctors and nurses well.
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u/Head_Midnight666 6h ago
I'm voting yes on 40. I couldn't decide, but Bernie Sanders is for it, and he's my guy. I do think it could backfire in a variety of ways, but the sentiment is right. Billionaires don't need to be more rich. They're constantly taking every little bit they can. It needs to be redistributed for a fair and healthy society.
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u/LBC_Jet 2d ago
We need a proposition to ban all "New Tax" propositions. This shit never ends and the money always ends up in some black hole.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
So instead just let the rich hoard more wealth
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u/LBC_Jet 2d ago
I'm not talking their money, I'm talking my money. And the people in this state and in particular LA county and LB just can't say no to any new tax despite years of experience that these taxes never go to where they're promised... "homeless", "hospitals", whatever. And that as others have pointed out what starts out as a rich people tax eventually comes around to middle class and a temporary tax becomes permanent.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
Interesting that if this tax was another one for the middle class it would be crickets... nobody would say shit. But because its a tax for only the wealthy its totally wrong
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u/tom_ace022 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don’t like billionaires either but this prop 40 tax is a TERRIBLE idea.
First of all “one time tax” is never one time. It sets a new precedent. They’ll do it again later. And next time it’ll be the millionaires. Eventually it’ll be middle class. And so on.
Secondly, taxing non realized gains is an equally terrible precedent. A stock can go up 50% one year and you don’t sell it. Now you owe tax one that?? How do you pay it? The next year it can drop 90%. Then the investment was never worth it in the first place. I can’t emphasize enough how these precedents affect FAR more people than just the billionaires.
Ya’ll, please you gotta think further ahead here.
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u/appelton 1d ago edited 1d ago
It will trickle down to middle class eventually. I have zero problems with TAXing billionaires but what's the point of collecting any additional taxes with this level of fraud and corruption in CA? The estimates are 40-100B in collected taxes...and whats next ? Another 20B for Newsom to fight Homelessness ? Or maybe 100B to finalize Bullet train to nowhere ? ..like what is the point ? the money will be gone in a week. Then they will introduce 5% every two years, then millionaires and then middle class. All temporary. All one time fee. Like every single tax in the history of taxes.
CA expenditure doubled in the past 10 years. Did your life got x2 better ? Is there anyone out there who sees any results ? anyone ? Meanwhile Florida is on the 4th year in a row on reducing their expenditure budget.
There is absolutely no end to this...
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u/LurkerNan 2d ago
What really worries me is there a proposal to include Roth retirement accounts over $10 million. All those accounts have already been taxed, and 10M sounds like a lot today but what will that sound like in 10-30 years? I bet 30 years ago none of us thought that our home would be worth $1 million, but here we are. And I didn’t save for decades to make sure my retirement is comfortable just for them to decide that they want another piece off the top later on. It sets a bad precedent, because Roths were supposed to be post tax and allow you to grow the value of them tax-free. That was the whole point. I really don’t wanna be penalized for having followed the rules for the last 40 years and doing everything right.
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u/taxinomics 18h ago
The tax only applies to taxpayers with a net worth exceeding $1B. A taxpayer with a net worth of exactly $1B who has a Roth account worth $200M would owe $0 in tax under Prop 40.
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u/LurkerNan 12h ago
That is today, but it opens up the precedent of looking at Roth accounts as a source of additional taxation, and I cannot cosign off on that. I would be on board if they hadn’t mentioned Roths
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u/taxinomics 11h ago
I help my centimillionaire and billionaire clients use Roth accounts to avoid tens of millions, hundreds of millions, and even in some cases billions of dollars in taxes, which shifts the burden of paying for government off of them and onto people like you.
I personally think that retirement accounts should receive their tax-advantaged status only when actually used for retirement purposes, but I have no incentive to persuade you otherwise.
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u/LurkerNan 6h ago
Well then they can fix the Roth rules, not tax them extra like this. Because my Roth may one day grow to 10M and I'd like them to keep their grubby paws off of it.
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u/taxinomics 6h ago
Prop 40 is a one-time tax on billionaire wealth measured as of 12/31/2026. Unless you manage to become a billionaire and grow a Roth account to $10M or more in the next 80 days, your Roth account is perfectly safe.
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u/LurkerNan 5h ago
Like I said, slippery slope.
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u/taxinomics 5h ago
There is no slope you are going to slip down that is going to cause you to suddenly become a billionaire with a double digit Roth account by 12/31/2026.
I think what you mean to say is that you are more than happy to pay more taxes yourself so that the wealthiest among us can pay less.
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u/InsectBusiness 1d ago
Sounds like you won't be around in 30 years, let alone 10 years. There should be a cap on voting age because you boomers have already done enough to destroy the quality of life of future generations.
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u/DynamicHunter Alamitos Beach 1d ago
I don’t think a one-time tax is a perfect idea, it’s a very temporary measure. But we should still tax billionaires 100 times over before we raise taxes on ordinary people by a single percent.
The thing about unrealized gains is that’s how billionaires make and spend their money, they can just take out loans against their billions in stock and don’t pay any taxes on selling them. They also get paid primarily in equity/stocks, not salary. It’s actually a huge tax loophole.
The fact that billionaires are fighting so hard against this shows how badly we need to do it.
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u/krodiggs 9h ago
90% of this tax is going to healthcare.
Is THAT the people that need these proceeds?
Are we supposed to ‘think about the poor healthcare executives’?
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u/SnooDonuts3749 2h ago
Lol, next time they'll do the middle class. As if the middle class isn't already fucked enough by taxes.
5% is nothing to these billionaires and they'll make their money back in no time.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
We gotta change the status quo
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u/tom_ace022 2d ago
I don’t understand what you mean by this
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
Google status quo
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u/Positive_Carry_ 1d ago
There will be a negative waterfall effect on California’s finances. Even assuming the tax only hits 200 people, imagine the centimillionaires and decamillionaires who see this pass and decide they don’t want to be subject to the next “one-time” wealth tax. They already pay most of the income taxes. The state budget collapses when the only taxpayers are middle class earners. This is why Newsom and other mainstream Dems oppose the referendum.
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u/Big-Dudu-77 2d ago
No on 40
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
Yes on prop 40, No on props 41 & 42
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u/SpaceWranglerCA 2d ago
i voted against 40 because its a one-time tax... the spending wont end after the tax funding is used. This happened after the state got billions in covid stimulus - spending went way up as revenues went way up, and then the revenues went down but the spending didnt go down. That's why the state has been in a deficit for the past 4 years.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
Good for you. The status quo needs to change.... Yes on prop 40, No on props 41 & 42
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u/SpaceWranglerCA 2d ago
yes the status quo needs to change.... with more sustainable, long term funding mechanisms
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u/rdforty2 1d ago
The status quo needs to change, but youll vote in the exact same leadership that has ruined CA. And youll give them more money on top of it? What a take.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 1d ago
Nope, you are assuming I am voting for the same leadership... you're trying to spread lies... we tax the rich and hold politicians accountable... enough with that status quo
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u/rdforty2 1d ago
The status quo is voting for the same people that are already on charge. The status quo is giving more and more taxes without anything being done. If you think the status quo needs to change, change the way you vote. Dont vote for the same people and dont vote to give the same people more money and more power. A vote on yes on 40 is giving more money and power to the corrupt people in charge. Tbat is literally keeping the status quo.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 1d ago
Who is voting for a person? The wealthy remain under taxed, the middle class gets a new tax everyday. Im voting YES on 40 because Im tired of the wealthy just skating by... Im not going to wait for someone down the road to be elected... the wealthy need to be taxed today!
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u/sodontstopnow 2d ago
Every tax started as a tax on the rich and then trickled down. It’s so obvious where this would eventually go and it’s down stream to the middle class.
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u/SnooDonuts3749 2h ago
You think the middle class will now be taxed a one time 5% tax?
How about the 100% inflation on most things over the past 5 years, the taxes I pay to buy something, own something, and insure something?
You think the middle class isn't already going to get new taxes anyway? Wrong.
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u/sodontstopnow 1h ago
I wasn’t talking about inflation. Everyone pays that tax. I’m talking about a net worth tax, All taxes filter down eventually.
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u/SnooDonuts3749 1h ago
The net worth of billionaires. That's what is getting taxed. Not your net worth.
And the tariff price increases hurt my wallet whereas a billionaire doesn't even notice.
Only 989 billionaires in the US. 40 million people in California.
I am not on the side of billionaires. I don't think anyone needs to be a billionaire.
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u/sodontstopnow 1h ago
I don’t give a shit about billionaires. I’m telling you all taxes eventually trickle down.
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u/SpaceWranglerCA 2d ago
No I don't think it will lead to middle class taxes. I know for certain it will lead to $100B of funding cuts from other state programs. They'll be too scared to scale back the new $100B of healthcare funding, so they'll cut funding for other things, like housing, public transportation, infrastructure, parks, pollution remediation, etc.
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u/InternationalSand540 2d ago
can you explain to me why we're rooting for UnitedHealthcare suddenly
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
I am rooting for taxing billionaires
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u/InternationalSand540 2d ago
do you want to actually discuss it because I am feeling open on the subject and wanna know what other people think of it without having to watch videos like the above.
I'll start with where I'm at. I see that this looks like a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to get stuff done, and if I weren't so cynical I'd be enthusiastically supporting it myself.
The cynical side of me is seeing a one-time tax that will send billions of dollars through the California government which famously spends little of its tax funds on their intended purposes (see light rail project for the most prominent example) and set a precedent for taxing based on retirement funds rather than just what loose money you have, or god forbid, just income. If you don't engage with this point I will make it my entire argument until you do, by the way, since it's important to me.
I'm seeing very little accountability making sure it goes actually to subsidizing life-saving healthcare. I'm seeing two names on the "pro" side of the ballot packet I got last month: Bernie Sanders and United Healthcare. I don't know much about Bernie Sanders but I know for sure that health insurance companies aren't exactly looking for patients to get cheaper treatment. I'm willing to bet they're gonna end up with a vast majority of that 90% allocated to healthcare and *some* of it will *maybe* go to patients in need if trickle-down economics magically kicks into gear after 150 years or however long it's been.
The cynical side of me is seeing prop 41 specifically geared towards crippling 40, yes, but I also see it starting to enforce actual responsibility when it comes to managing taxpayer money and god knows we could spend a little bit less on money laundering and fix up our infrastructure.I am rooting for taxing billionaires, too, but you must understand that this is still not good enough. We need a proper bill without all these bullshit loopholes.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
Its a starting point... we must tax the ultra wealthy. There is no other option.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
Apparently that hasn't ever worked... so only option is prop 40
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u/rdforty2 1d ago
Giving the government proven to squander your tax money MORE money is the only option? Thats seriously your take?
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 1d ago
Taxing the wealthy is the only option... holding politicians accountable comes after that... thats my take
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u/PlinyTheElderest 2d ago
Or maybe there are other options on the table. Like for example putting the healthcare industry on a diet. The healthcare industry is ironically morbidly obese. Morbidly obese like geese who get a firehose of mushy grains shoved down their gullets until the tip of the instrument reaches their stomach and they have no option of refusing. The entire thing is an obscene monstrosity and witless rubes can't help themselves but root for it.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 1d ago
Agreed... we start with taxing the rich then start the "diet"... good call👍
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u/InternationalSand540 2d ago
You've used false dichotomy twice now. Please take the topic seriously this is a big deal.
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u/SnooGrapes7647 2d ago
How about they guarantee that this tax was not fall on the middle class like every other welth tax has done
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u/fnblackbeard 2d ago
No. New. Taxes.
Any new tax WILL NOT HELP YOU
You're just giving MORE MONEY to a government that has proven time and time again they can not manage it and spend it effectively.
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u/LucyThrowawayLA 2d ago
Extremely ignorant take!
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u/fnblackbeard 2d ago
How so?
How have all the taxes you've been paying helped the average Californian?
How's it helping LB?
We have every tax imaginable here and yet nothing to show for it except highest home prices in the country, highest gas prices, highest energy prices and amongst the highest income and sales taxes.
Where's the money? Where at the results?
What's ignorant is to think that by giving the government MORE MONEY its some how magically going to fix anything.
Stop scapegoating the rich and hold government accountable. State has a spending problem, not revenue.
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u/LucyThrowawayLA 2d ago
Uh, what do you think funds our schools? Our roads? Our critical municipal infrastructure?
These are all things that are only functioning at all because of our tax revenue. The only reason they don't function BETTER is because the rich aren't taxed enough.
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u/twells138 1d ago
You mean the schools which get 4 to 5 X the money per student but still places lower than Mississippi? Seriously, at what point do you notice ...
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u/rdforty2 1d ago
It has nothing to do with the rich being taxed more. Its not a revenue issue. More money is not needed. Its a waste issue! Government waste and fraud is the reason for the problems. I cant believe the pepple that think giving more money is the answer, when its been proven that the high taxes we already pay cant fix the issues. No more taxes.
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u/LucyThrowawayLA 1d ago
This is a lie told by conservative sources constantly. Then when they actually try to find the supposed rampant waste, they come up empty. Just look at the disaster that DOGE was.
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u/Hatman-G 1d ago
But if I give them more power they promise I will get free things??? No way its a ruse
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u/stevenfrijoles 2d ago
Maybe on 40. No on using tik tok for news or political opinions
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u/rdforty2 1d ago
Read it for yourself and its broad scope is why its a no. You dont give a government proven to waste your money MORE money, with the ability to change thungs in the future, which this prop gives them. It gives them more power and more money. You shouldnt need tiktok to tell you that.
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u/stevenfrijoles 1d ago
Can you point to where it gives "the ability to change things in the future?" I can't find it.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 15h ago
Exactly, the status quo must change... we tax the wealthy then hold politicians accountable
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u/Jasranwhit 12h ago
The rich already pay almost all the taxes.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 11h ago
Good, so 5% shouldn't be an issue... status quo is not acceptable anymore
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u/Jasranwhit 11h ago
Why isnt it acceptable that rich people already pay for all your governmental programs?
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 9h ago
Because they don't
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u/Jasranwhit 9h ago
No they do. If you are talking all taxes (income, property, gas, inheritance, etc)
- Top 1% (Incomes over $771,100): Pays 23.9% of all taxes collected.
- Top 5% (Incomes over $308,600): Pays 40.7% of all taxes collected.
- Top 20% (Incomes over $147,300): Pays 65.8% of all taxes collected.
- Top 50% (Incomes over ~$69,000): Pays roughly 88.6% of all taxes collected.
- Bottom 50% (Incomes under ~$69,000): Pays roughly 11.4% of all taxes collected.
The people not paying their fair share are the bottom 50%.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 9h ago
Obviously not enough
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u/Jasranwhit 9h ago
How is “all of it” not enough?
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 9h ago
Vote Yes on 40 & No on 41 & 42
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u/Jasranwhit 9h ago
Vote NO on 40.
No more taxes until our tax money is spent with respect and intelligence.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 8h ago
Tax the wealthy now and hold politicians accountable
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u/Comrade281 12h ago
All these crusaders to stop 40 and no one gives a shit about 3 magically. Thats how you know these sensible posts are bullshit. Its not sensible its our government using a muscle that has practically rotten off to estimate what these moneybags are holding
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u/Jasranwhit 9h ago
Who pays taxes? In the US if you are talking about total taxes collected (income, property, gas, etc)
- Top 1% (Incomes over $771,100): Pays 23.9% of all taxes collected.
- Top 5% (Incomes over $308,600): Pays 40.7% of all taxes collected. (This is the Top 1% plus the next 4%).
- Top 20% (Incomes over $147,300): Pays 65.8% of all taxes collected. (This captures the Top 10% you asked for, which falls roughly in the middle of this block).
- Top 50% (Incomes over ~$69,000): Pays roughly 88.6% of all taxes collected. (This is the Top 40% plus half of the middle 20% block).
- Bottom 50% (Incomes under ~$69,000): Pays roughly 11.4% of all taxes collected. (This is the bottom 40% plus half of the middle 20% block).
The people not paying their fair share are the bottom 50%, not the 1%.
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u/SnooDonuts3749 2h ago
People on the bottom can't afford to feed and house themselves.
The 1% can afford 20 houses and a personal chef.
Your logic is so flawed.
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u/red7standinby 3h ago
Lol, you can confiscate ALL of Elon Musks wealth and you would fund the government for less than a year. We need austerity. Stop wasting our tax dollars.
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u/peterbecich 1d ago
Just because it might win at the ballot box does not mean it will be implemented. Remember Prop 8? CA Supreme Court ruled against it.
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u/Jig_2000 1d ago
Holy Cow, why do people in this state support new taxes. Those are the last things we need right now. The state has the money. Figure it out
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u/United_Eye_6219 1d ago
Lottery come to mind? Create a new tax to help with these programs that pull on the heartstrings then remove existing funding to programs and spend that elsewhere. Fool me once.... no new taxes for anyone, cut spending
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u/EmRatio 16h ago
Its written into the law how the money is supposed to be spent. You're just creating some false narrative from a place of cynicism.
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u/United_Eye_6219 14h ago
It was also written in the law for the lottery money to go to schools /education.. and it did. But then they cut back the existing streams of funding to them so they did not get more $ just funded differently.
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u/krodiggs 9h ago
Cannabis taxes were as well; but then got diverted from the intended purposes and used for ‘get out the vote’ campaigns.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 1d ago
Yeah, but in the meantime billionaires get to hoard more money... nope...Yes on prop 40, No on props 41 & 42
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u/RadicallyDontCare 8h ago
Prop 40 is a great test for whether you are mathematically challenged and easy to manipulate.
Because if you want to effectively tax the rich, prop 40 is a hugely stupid way to do it.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 8h ago
Look at you smarty boy using big words like mathematically thinking thats going to help you make a point... tax the wealthy and then hold politicians accountable
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u/Jasranwhit 8h ago
HOLD POLITICIANS ACCOUNTABLE
Then
lets talk about more taxes.2
u/Antique-Freedom-7891 8h ago
Nope... that is the status quo... we need change so tax the wealthy now then hold politicians accountable
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u/Jasranwhit 8h ago
On what planet is holding politicians accountable the status quo?
The Status Quo is California collects $275.04 billion per year from hardworking Californians and wastes most of it. And rich people are paying almost all of that bill.
Don't give them any more!
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 8h ago
The wealthy are paying these bot to spread misinformation and fear mongering... these billionaires just got a huge tax cut from Trump
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u/RadicallyDontCare 6h ago
Just admit you don’t care about the math or economics The proposition is all feels, bro.
This doesn’t even tax the wealthy.its a one time tax that will literally lower tax revenues significantly.
I get you want to tax the rich. Find a less inane way to do it. Even solidly socdem countries have largely gone away from wealth taxes since they are ineffective.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 6h ago
Just admit you are anti tax for the wealthy... and what does "proposition is all feels, bro"?
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u/RadicallyDontCare 2h ago
Except I’m not. I’m definitely pro-prop 3.
I’d be for taxing loans against assets, which is how very rich people avoid income and capital gains.
Taxing wealth doesn’t work. It’s been tried. It’s too easy to dodge and causes capital flight.
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u/SnooDonuts3749 2h ago
Is it not better than not taxing them?
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u/RadicallyDontCare 2h ago
No.
It will lose money. It’s not better.Wealth taxes in general are ineffective. A one time wealth tax is both ineffective and outright stupid.
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u/SnooDonuts3749 2h ago
How do you know wealth taxes are ineffective?
What's an example of one that was implemented but didn't work as intended?
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u/RadicallyDontCare 1h ago
Just super right wing countries like France, Sweden, Finland, Luxembourg… they all scrapped them.
Reasons include:
Low income compared to high costs to administer
Capital flight
Very easy to avoidA one time wealth tax is even worse. CA depends highly on top earners to fund schools and the state government. Wealth taxes definitely (and have already) encouraged capital flight.
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u/Lookingforleftbacks 35m ago
“Top earners” don’t pay nearly their share. California doesn’t rely on them for shit. California relies on the money it makes from industry
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u/big_daddy_dub 2d ago
No on 40. a ONE TIME tax will not meaningfully address CA’s ongoing spending problems.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 2d ago
Yes on prop 40, No on props 41 & 42. And I hope there's another bill to make it permanent... but the status quo needs to change
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u/Proteatron 2d ago
Disagree.
It's fine if you don't like billionaires. I don't agree as a blanket rule, but whatever. It's still a very poorly designed tax, and relying on it to punish billionaires or make them pay their "fair share" won't work well. The other factor is that California has done a very poor job of using its existing revenues - there is a lot of waste / fraud with existing taxes, so adding more on top won't fix things.
While we're at it, please also stop voting to increase our sales tax. That mostly impacts lower income. If a proposition says it will only go towards helping firefighters, teachers, healthcare, or endangered pandas, that's usually a bad sign. It just ends up leaving more loopholes, requires more oversight, and likely means more fraud. Taxes should just go towards general fund so they are easier to review.
CA already has some of the highest income and sales tax in the nation. This prop requires you to make the assumption that our taxes aren't high enough. Ask the government instead to do a better job with what it's got.
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u/Suilezrok 2d ago
Interesting and unsurprising view point from someone reposting star link and tech stuff across forums.
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u/SnooDonuts3749 2h ago
I'm still voting to tax the billionaires because they can deal with it l.
I've had to deal with enough corporate greed price gouging, rent increasing bullshit since the pandemic, so fuck'em.
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u/ranchitasweetnsour 2d ago
To those who have been given, even more will be given and to those who have not, even what they think they have will be taken away.
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u/CaliTexan22 1d ago
This seems to have been cross posted to every California sub imaginable…
Many voters just vote “no” on propositions. Especially those that are not simple one-sentence ideas.
Prop 40 is 14 pages long. Even those who favor wealth taxes don’t think this proposal is a good one.
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u/kloppslowerjaw11 15h ago
I’m firmly middle class, my wife stays at home and we have a daughter. She’s homeschooled. For most of my life, I’ve voted for tax increases here in CA. Nothing changes though. The rich will always find loopholes to get away with not paying taxes or they can leave. The cost of these programs is then given to the rest of us and we’re the ones who can’t pay. The lower classes and homeless obviously don’t pay anything. We pay it, not them, we do. The state, and most governments regardless of where you stand politically, waste money. Let’s just look at the endless amounts of bond money for homelessness in LA and the problem is just as bad. The light rail is another example.
I cannot vote for these because they’ll just waste money and a “one-time tax” is never that. Higher government spending means higher taxes for all of us in a state where it already is super expensive to live in.
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u/obione710 10h ago
The fact yall think this change anything is laughable. What happened to the lottery funding schools? Sounded good, right? Taxes will make their way back to the billionaires and politicians, and yall gonna pay for it
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u/Lookingforleftbacks 38m ago
We’re already paying for it. This isn’t the final solution, but it’s a start
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u/Jasranwhit 8h ago
Dont Forget!
NO on prop 40, YES on props 41 & 42
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 8h ago
Look, these pro billionaire bots are getting funny... Vote Yes on 40 & No on 41 & 42
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u/Jasranwhit 8h ago
Protect California ! Let's hold the greedy accountable!
NO on prop 40, YES on props 41 & 42
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 8h ago
Pro billionaire bots are getting desperate... vote Yes on prop 40, No on props 41 & 42
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u/Jasranwhit 8h ago
Calling everyone a "Bot" who disagrees with you is one of the dumbest trends of all time.
In the US, considering all taxes (income, property, gas, inheritance, etc)
- Top 1% (Incomes over $771,100): Pays 23.9% of all taxes collected.
- Top 5% (Incomes over $308,600): Pays 40.7% of all taxes collected.
- Top 20% (Incomes over $147,300): Pays 65.8% of all taxes collected.
- Top 50% (Incomes over ~$69,000): Pays roughly 88.6% of all taxes collected.
- Bottom 50% (Incomes under ~$69,000): Pays roughly 11.4% of all taxes collected.
DONT FORGET NO ON 40, YES YES YES ON 41 AND 42.
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u/Antique-Freedom-7891 8h ago
Im starting a trend??? Wow, I had no idea. I guess trend in Russian means something else
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u/Jasranwhit 7h ago
Why cant you engage with the argument, instead of spamming and accusing people of being a bot?
Rich people already pay almost all of the taxes collected.
The government collects an enormous amount of money each year.
The real problem is how that money is spent and used.
Until politicians are willing to spend money with respect and intelligence there is no point in even giving them more. It's good money after bad.
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u/Particular_Student72 5h ago
The billionaires are not hurting our state! They are a good thing for our state! Why are we vilifying them? Politicians are mishandling our state's funds and mismanaging its finances. We have such high taxes in this state and for some reason we can't make it work? Why is there so much angst against billionaires and not against politicians?
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u/SnooDonuts3749 2h ago
Billion. As in one thousand million.
A one time tax of 5%.
That's 50 million of every 1,000 million dollars.
I think they'll survive.
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u/Particular_Student72 1h ago
Taking things from somebody who legally earned it is not right. It doesn't matter who you do it to. Then justifying is because "I think they'll survive" is not about fairness at all. You're talking about taking other people's things because you believe they have enough. What if somebody did that to you? It's not just. Nobody should be allowed to do that to you or to me... or to a billionaire.
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u/Lookingforleftbacks 39m ago
Umm it’s not “taking” like we are just stealing it from them. It’s taxing because they didn’t become a billionaire without borrowing against the same unrealized gains they refuse to pay taxes on
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u/Legitimate-Badger-85 2h ago
Regardless of how much you hate or love billionaires, taxing unrealized gains is a horrible idea. If I own a business and I get taxed on what that business is worth right now instead of how much money I actually get from that business, then I would have to sell a portion of that business just to pay taxes on it - and then it might tank next year, meaning I lost a bunch of money and had to pay taxes on money that I never actually had or got to use. If this happens, it will only happen more, and it will happen lower on the food chain as well. We can talk about taxing cash money, that’s fine. But taxing unrealized money that isn’t even money yet? Insane.
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u/SnooDonuts3749 2h ago
There are 989 Billionaires in the US.
Idk how many of them live in California, but Resnicks can fuck off thinking they own all the water. Tax the shit out of them.
There are 40 million people that live in California that are nickeled and dimed over everything.
Yes, I'm voting to tax the billionaires. It's a one time tax on those greedy bastards. Get over it.
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u/DJAnarchie 2d ago
Bro I thought the "People making $40k/yr being against billionaires paying more tax" was a joke or a meme. People REALLY think they're going to be the next billionaire or that tax revenue from billionaires are a bad thing? The comments section is wild