r/law • u/Hafiz_TNR • 7h ago
Executive Branch (Trump) Trump’s New Press Secretary Hit With Bar Complaint: Katie Zacharia is facing a legal complaint on her third day on the job.
https://newrepublic.com/post/216631/trump-press-secretary-zacharia-bar-complaint-lawyer-credentials433
u/Environmental-Arm365 7h ago
Did they really think no one would check her credentials? The level of incompetence is staggering.
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u/8fenristhewolf8 7h ago
They. do. not. care. They will do whatever they want until someone (we) stop them. It's trump's MO his entire life. I wish we could all stop marveling at their ridiculous nature and mobilize to stamp it out.
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u/FuzzyMcBitty 5h ago
Beyond not caring, doesn’t this administration want to remove the Bar Association’s authority?
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u/Im_Just_A_Tourist 4h ago
There will be times when the struggle seems impossible. I know this already. Alone, unsure, dwarfed by the scale of the enemy.
Remember this.
Freedom is a pure idea. It occurs spontaneously and without instruction. Random acts of insurrection are occurring constantly throughout the Nation. There are whole movements, groups that have no idea that they've already enlisted in the cause.
Remember that the frontier of the Resistance is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes the lines forward.
And then remember this.
The Authoritarian need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.
Remember that.
And know this, the day will come when all these skirmishes and protests, these moments of defiance will have flooded the banks of the Republicans authority and then there will be one too many. One single thing will break the siege.
Remember this.
Try.
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u/Blue_Plastic_88 7h ago
IDEK why she claimed to be a lawyer. It’s not required for the position. I mean, RFK Jr is head of HHS without any credentials and is an openly anti-vaccine, cocaine-snorting nut job, so I’m not sure why this chick decided credentials were needed.
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u/mediocre_remnants 7h ago
She went to law school, has a JD, and worked for a law firm.
But she's not a lawyer and never practiced law. At least not legally. Maybe she was practicing law illegally at the law firm in China she worked for.
But lying about passing the bar exam... that's not really something you can get away with. And she probably just made that up on the spot. Then realized how stupid it was.
And hilariously, it was Trump himself that put her on the spot IIRC. A reporter asked Trump, Trump turned to her and asked her and she got all flustered. Her panties probably dropped to the floor with a sploosh sound and she just didn't know what to say.
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u/miinbox 5h ago
I never heard anyone who graduated from law school and never passed the bar call him or herself a "lawyer."
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u/ZestyTako 3h ago
That doesn’t make what they said wrong.
I would guess if a person tried and failed to pass the bar, they would probably be a bit embarrassed to call themselves a lawyer, but that doesn’t change the fact that if they have a JD they are a lawyer
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u/miinbox 1h ago
Look up the definition of "lawyer" in a dictionary. For example, Merriam Webster defines "lawyer":
one whose profession is to conduct lawsuits for clients or to advise as to legal rights and obligations in other matters
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lawyer
She is not a lawyer. She cannot offer any legal advice because she does not have a license in any state that we know of.
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u/IsThatHearsay 6h ago
Hi, attorney here. Haven't been following this closely but here to add:
If she graduated from law school she is technically a "lawyer," but would only be an "attorney" if she also passed a U.S. State Bar exam. (Sooo, not China)
Lawyer just means a person finished law school and earned a law degree. Attorney is for licensed bar passage and in good standing, even if a non-practicing attorney. The whole "not all lawyers are attorneys, but all attorneys are lawyers" kind of thing.
If she has held herself out an attorney that has passed a bar, then that's a problem if she hasn't.
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u/nurseferatou 5h ago
While I do agree that being technically correct is the best type of correct, that’s only common knowledge for attorneys. The rest of us don’t draw a distinction between attorney and lawyer, and her audience ain’t lawyers.
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u/kjsmitty77 5h ago
I am an attorney and I’ve never drawn a distinction between the two. In the US, they’re generally used as synonyms.
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u/PersonalFinanceD 4h ago
Save for in California where she allegedly practiced law. She's in trouble here.
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u/Calm-Back-8168 4h ago
While this was true at one point, I guess, the terms lawyer and attorney are used interchangeably, and notably, the ABA doesn’t make the distinction. Anyone who went to law school absolutely knows you can’t call yourself a lawyer or attorney until you have passed a bar.
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u/ZestyTako 3h ago
That just isn’t true though. Anyone who has a JD is a lawyer, but that doesn’t authorize them to practice law.
You cannot call yourself an attorney until you pass the bar, and only attorneys can practice law. But a person with a JD is still a lawyer, they just can’t do what most people think of when they hear the term lawyer. They assume court room, which a lawyer certainly cannot do if they are not also an attorney.
It’s like a Dr. Most people think of physicians but there are a lot of Drs who are not physicians and therefore cannot practice medicine
Source, I’m attorney and lawyer so I can practice law, and I’m also a Dr but not a physician (not really, only head asses call themselves Drs when they have a JD)
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u/Calm-Back-8168 3h ago
I’m really really not. This article sums it up:
**Both standard English dictionaries (such as Merriam-Webster) and the preeminent Black’s Law Dictionary treat the terms as equivalents. The U.S. Department of Laboruses lawyer and attorney synonymously.
Most significantly, states themselves – as well as the American Bar Association and state bar associations – often use both terms to describe a licensed member of their bars. They make no distinction between the terms in laws, court rules, member databases and other documents.**Source: lawyer/attorney who supervises post bar clerks. See also the ABA, Black Law discretionary, Mariam Webster and Department of Labor.
https://law.usnews.com/law-firms/advice/articles/attorney-vs-lawyer
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u/hiphopahippy 5h ago
This is the part of her story I find amusing. She's technically a lawyer, so she claims the title knowing most people will assume she is an attorney. I'm not surprised Trump chose her, but I am surprised she put herself out there knowing full well how social media works. She reminds me of those old ads from the '80s, "I may not be a doctor, but I played one on t.v."
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u/Slade_Riprock 5h ago
Exactly claiming you passed the bar is unethical but not illegal unless you are attempting to practice law.
She has a law degree and is a lawyer.
She is also an idiot
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u/ThoseThievingBitches 4h ago
What about calling yourself "counsel" or external counsel " ?
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u/ZestyTako 3h ago
I would say a lawyer can go by counsel if they are advising, but in my experience it’s pretty much only used in a litigation context (transactional attys correct me if I’m wrong), and to litigate you need to be an attorney as you are representing clients and appearing / filing with the court on their behalf
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u/spam__likely 6h ago
do you have the video for this?
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u/Trueslyforaniceguy 5h ago
It was all over the internet yesterday. Just look up ‘new press secretary says she passed the bar in china’
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u/NowhereAllAtOnce 6h ago
Me? Video for what?
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u/NowhereAllAtOnce 6h ago
Actually, I do. I reused that line from a 1942 film, Moontide. One of the characters said to another, “I like the way you think, Nutsy.” (Nutsy was the nickname of the other guy.)
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u/sublimeandsparkled 6h ago
So you don't care that she lied about her credentials? If credentials don't matter, why did she take the time to make up fake shit on her cv? I guess after listening to Trump's lies for ten years people don't care about the truth anymore.
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u/spam__likely 6h ago
She probably claimed it before this, and could not simply walk back the claim now that would get attention.
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u/melmsz 7h ago
He is a lawyer.
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u/Blue_Plastic_88 7h ago
But not a doctor while making recommendations for Americans’ health.
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u/sublimeandsparkled 6h ago
And RFK jr. has claimed he has so much brain damage that his earning power is diminished so he shouldn't have to pay the full court ordered alimony. Nothing but liars in Trump's administration.
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u/FuguSandwich 7h ago
Credentials? Someone put pictures of all the candidates in front of Trump and he picked the one he found most attractive.
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u/Not-TheNSA 6h ago
Bro they keep illegally appointing US Attorneys and the courts keep kicking them out. They don’t give a shit about legality or being qualified. Until the Bar starts revoking licenses and judges start throwing people in cells for their behavior, they will keep doing it because no one is stopping them.
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u/BiologyJ 7h ago
Not incompetence. They don’t care, and if you do then they’ll try everything they can to harm you.
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u/1HappyRoadrunner 7h ago
Honestly, no one would care if she was not a lawyer... until she said shes a lawyer.
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u/Zulmoka531 7h ago
She’s also made a huge mistake in Trumpville. She’s made herself and thus Trump, look bad.
That being said she’s also done something correct, perfect distraction while all hell is breaking loose on bigger issues.
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u/Fionaelaine4 6h ago
Incompetence is the goal. If you are a foreign entity trying to destroy a country putting incompetent people in the highest offices is less bloody than war.
If you look at every single thing Trump’s administration has done with the idea of him being a Russian asset everything makes sense. It’s the only thing that makes sense.
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u/KickGumAndChewAss 3h ago
I don't think so. Being a sycophant is the goal, incompetence is the consequence
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u/Forikorder 4h ago
shouldn't the goal still be for them to last long term and fly under the radar?
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u/Fionaelaine4 4h ago
That was the first run. They thought they had it in the bag with Covid too. Can’t risk it happening again and America surviving as a democracy
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u/HugeResearcher3500 7h ago
Why bother? His supporters don’t give a single fuck. I would say maybe the smart supporters care, but that’s an oxymoron
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u/che-che-chester 6h ago
I assume any press secretary in modern history would have been found out eventually, but there is a wrinkle with her. Trump is known for hiring unqualified and incompetent people, so his staff get scrutinized more closely because most of them have some kind of scandal waiting to be found.
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u/Marshall1337 5h ago
Trump seriously thinks that because he said it, that’s truth. I’m mystified that people haven’t exploited this now
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u/0202_tihssitidder 4h ago
No consequences.
Meanwhile I have a parking fine from 2 minutes over the meter.
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u/capt_minorwaste 3h ago
They were too busy looking at her knockers and grabbing her by the kitty cat.
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u/Think_Tooth1675 1h ago
Did we really think they wouldn’t vet her credentials? Is this surprising not shocking? Just blatant incompetence?
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u/TheRealVicarOfDibley 6h ago
No, I think Trump sees the media as "fake" well he is giving them then his fake press secretary degrading the role.
Don't get me wrong I do no like Karoline but damn can she speak publicly.
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u/Utterlybored 7h ago
Please, don't do anything to get her fired. In addition to the pure comic relief she provides, she's doing a great job of showcasing Trump's incompetence.
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u/korbentulsa 5h ago
They'll just find someone blonder, dumber, and more obsequious and I can't decide if that's a feature or a bug.
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u/beavis617 7h ago
If we Americans need to walk around with documents in order to purchase a loaf of bread at the Supermarket and for us to get on the pasta line at Olive Garden then is it too much to ask the new WH press secretary where she passed the bar exam?
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u/Politicsboringagain 7h ago
My wife has been an American citizen for 22 years now, because of trump She carries her US Passport with her everywhere she goes.
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u/Familiar_Rip_8871 6h ago
My mother-in-law has been a citizen for 53 years and she’s carrying her documents around.
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u/sfcnmone 6h ago
My nephew, too. He’s been stopped repeatedly for “driving while brown” for the first time in his life. NoVA area.
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u/Significant_Pear_523 7h ago
Bro, she already told you when she was in China or something. Do you want her to spell it out and then try to read what she just spelled out for you to get it?
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u/P0Rt1ng4Duty 7h ago
You can't take the bar exam in China unless you're a citizen.
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u/Significant_Pear_523 7h ago
She is a citizen. She's not an illegal.
And she probably speaks Chinese just as well as English.
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u/P0Rt1ng4Duty 7h ago
You can't take the bar in China unless you are a citizen of China.
And if she did somehow take the exam in China, it does not allow her to practice in the United States, which was apparently what she was doing when she got back and served as general counsel of some company.
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u/Significant_Pear_523 6h ago
If she was practicing law in China and the U.S., then you have conceded that she is a member of the bar.
Now we need to move on to talk about the real problems. You’re not focused on Ilhan Omar, when the obvious crime there is obvious.
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u/sfcnmone 6h ago edited 6h ago
I really have to ask. Are you unable to read or are you just stupid?
Here. I’ll spell it out for you:
She attended law school in the US. Pepperdine.
She has never passed the bar exam in the US, and it’s against the law in all 50 states to claim you are a lawyer if you have not passed the bar exam. She lives in California, I believe. At least her husband and her four small children do.
She lived in China. She would not have ever been allowed to take the bar exam in China because she is not a Chinese citizen. Additionally, it’s impossible to imagine she reads Mandarin well enough to study Chinese law and pass the bar exam there, if she had been allowed to take the bar exam there as a non-citizen. Which she wasn’t.
TL:dr She’s obviously a liar and she broke the law. Perfect Trump employee.
Don’t forget which subreddit you’re on.
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u/Significant_Pear_523 6h ago
I see you've chosen to use insults instead of accepting the truth. But I haven't insulted anyone. In the future, if you want me to try to guide you to the correct answer, you'll have to address me without insults.
I look forward to more public appearances from Katie Zacharia, and I look forward to her proving to all of you that she is a capable reader and likely a better speaker than you would think from her first appearance.
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u/Wubwubwubwuuub 5h ago
Any member of the White House staff having to prove they are a “capable reader” would be hilarious if it wasn’t so utterly appalling.
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u/Significant_Pear_523 4h ago
That's the shocking part to me as well. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris were both in the White House, both attorneys, and both really struggled with reading.
I consider myself nonpartisan. Democrats have their moments, for sure, but this is not one of them. Katie Zacharia is a wonderful, intelligent person. Kash Patel, another attorney, is in Virginia, not Russia.
Sometimes, you just have to accept the loss and live to fight another day. As someone else said earlier, remember which subreddit this is. It's the law subreddit, and the law is on the side of Republicans on this one.
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u/Complete-Paint529 6h ago
Omar? What crime? And Ms. Z? No, she claimed to have practiced as a lawyer, but was never admitted to the bar. She either practiced without a license, or misrepresented herself as a lawyer, or both. These are both crimes.
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u/Significant_Pear_523 6h ago
Apparently, I will have my comments deleted on the spot for talking about Ilhan Omar. Sorry, but I'm going to take censorship as a victory and leave it at that. Just like I am going to take Katie Zacharia at her word, just like all of her very intelligent and resourceful employers have, who could not have all been wrong about her credentials.
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u/Complete-Paint529 6h ago
So, no response on Omar? I know of no crime she's committed. And Ms Z? She herself committed a crime: presenting herself publicly as a lawyer. Practicing without a license is a separate crime.
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u/Significant_Pear_523 6h ago
I did respond, and it was deleted. Sorry, but the cancel culture of the left has prevented me from telling you the truth about her. I can continue to tell the truth that Kash Patel is in Virginia and that Katie Zacharia is wonderful, but I can't talk about Omar.
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u/P0Rt1ng4Duty 6h ago
If she had ever passed the BAR in the United States there would be a public record of it. There is not.
This means she was practicing law without a license and that's an easy crime to prove.
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u/Significant_Pear_523 6h ago
That doesn't make sense. The places she worked would have checked her credentials. She is a lawyer. She can read. And she is a wonderful person who will only improve at her new job.
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u/P0Rt1ng4Duty 5h ago
Unless they didn't.
But people have checked her credentials since then and she has absolutely not passed the BAR in any state.
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u/needsunshine 2h ago
What are you her husband or something? Why are you all over here claiming she's so wonderful and virtuous?
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u/Significant_Pear_523 2h ago
I'm being polite. Is that a lost capability these days? We're seeing some bad things right now from Ilhan Omar, MS Now, Graham Platner, and so many others on the left. And then people come places like here and get angry and get radicalized.
Tone down the rhetoric. This is one woman who has put together a remarkable legal career and has never harmed any of you.
You can downvote me. You can get moderators to remove my posts. But it's clear who the voice of reason is.
Get some sleep, and do better tomorrow.
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u/P0Rt1ng4Duty 6h ago
There is evidence that she practiced law without a license in both countries, which is a crime in this one.
But you go ahead and focus on the imaginary crime which has zero evidence.
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u/rygelicus 7h ago
I am all out of popcorn. Time to hit the store.
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u/bsport48 7h ago
Please tell me you watched her opening presser.
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u/rygelicus 7h ago
I did. It was tragic.
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u/bsport48 7h ago
I had to pause it, because I was laughing so hard...before I announced to a completely empty room that "she can't fucking read!!"
This, of course, was before I learned that she passed the bar "in China"...despite not being a US-licensed attorney or almost definitely not being a Chinese citizen.
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u/frontfrontdowndown 6h ago
I need more pressers. I’m already going through withdrawal.
Although this is a good stand in for now:
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u/brickyardjimmy 7h ago
Zacharia is forcing me to reevaluate Karoline Leavitt as having been thoroughly competent.
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u/Lonely_skeptic 6h ago
Oh, Leavitt was good at lying for Trump.
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u/brickyardjimmy 6h ago
She could at least speak properly. And she was tough. Wrong, deceptive, mean, condescending, rude, misleading and a willing slave to the president's worst impulses but tough and competent.
This person makes Scaramucci look like a hero.
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u/Wanderingwoodpeckerr 3h ago
Maybe she was, I mostly remember her just changing the subject or avoiding answering questions that made the administration look bad. She was quick with her responses though, I can’t imagine this new girl doing much to cover up Trumps corruption.
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u/Wanderingwoodpeckerr 7h ago
The blonde woman during Trumps first term and the red haired woman during Biden were both very smart and well spoken. All of the press secretary’s since have been really bad. But this new girl is something else! They can’t be serious!
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u/GarlicPickle109 7h ago
It depends on what you mean by "competent". Was KKKaroline (yeah, I know that's puerile...) able to hold up a banter with the folks in the room? Yes, she was. Did she adequately represent her boss? Very probably, insofar as both of them are lying pieces of humanity. Did she do a good job informing the press and, by extension, the US public, of actual Executive-Branch policy? Nah, she made her deal with the devil, as it were, and spouted general Trump-ass-kissing bovine intestional products. (Although the kisses did not apparently feel nice enough to get a ride on the right airplane that one time....)
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u/37Philly 7h ago
MAGA is against communism! Also, the fact that Ms. Zacharia claims to be admitted to practice law in China and worked for years for a Chinese law firm in The People’s Republic of China is of no business of yours! /s
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u/gphs 6h ago
I’m unclear what a bar complaint is supposed to do if she’s not a member of the bar.
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u/keebl3r 6h ago
The article mentioned it is against state law in California to claim publicly that you have passed the bar. I’m assuming the non-profit that filed the complaint doesn’t believe they have standing so they’re hoping the California Bar will take up the issue.
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u/gphs 5h ago
I’m not sure that, in any state, saying you passed the bar exam is a crime in isolation. It’s a crime if you are holding yourself out to clients or potential clients that you are a lawyer (UPL), otherwise it’s just saying stupid shit.
In any event since she’s not a member of the bar the California bar has as much authority to regulate her as the ASPCA does.
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u/Embarrassed-Scale339 4h ago
The discovery alone could have political ramifications as well, it could be that transparency and possibly accountability in the government for the public matters more than a conviction. Worth a shot?
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u/Darx117 5h ago
Because the Model Rule of Professional Responsibility also apply to non-barred lawyers, see Rule 8.1:
An applicant for admission to the bar, or a lawyer in connection with a bar admission application or in connection with a disciplinary matter, shall not:
(a) knowingly make a false statement of material fact.The ABA takes the integrity of the profession VERY seriously, and she is essentially misrepresenting the fact that she is barred somewhere.
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u/gphs 4h ago
Yeah she’s not an applicant to the bar as far as I know. Also the ABA is a trade association, it has nothing to do either with the discipline of lawyers.
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u/Darx117 3h ago
Yes, but generally speaking, the state supreme courts (who DO regulate and discipline the profession) adopt these rules.
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u/gphs 3h ago
Sure, but those rules only apply to licensed attorneys or applicants for a state bar. If she’s neither, they apply to her as much as the regulations for opera singers or cosmetologists apply to her, which is not very much.
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u/Darx117 3h ago
Ok, I just read the article, and although a specific rule isn’t explicitly mentioned, 5.5(b)(2) directly applies to her:
a) A lawyer shall not practice law in a jurisdiction in violation of the regulation of the legal profession in that jurisdiction, or assist another in doing so.
(b) A lawyer who is not admitted to practice in this jurisdiction shall not:
(1) except as authorized by these Rules or other law, establish an office or other systematic and continuous presence in this jurisdiction for the practice of law; or
(2) hold out to the public or otherwise represent that the lawyer is admitted to practice law in this jurisdiction.It said she represented herself “Of Counsel” and “General Counsel” of different companies in California.
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u/Working_Week_8784 6h ago
I suppose it could bar her (so to speak) from ever becoming a member of the bar - assuming bar admission still requires a determination that the candidate is of good character.
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u/Mrevilman 3h ago
It’s definitely relevant to character and fitness if she were to ever pass the bar in any state, but like OP, I am curious what the California Bar has authority to do to someone who isn’t a member. They can’t exactly discipline her.
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u/Complete-Paint529 6h ago
They can refer to the States Attorney for prosecution. She's committed crimes here. No presidential pardon.
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