r/hatethissmug • u/Geoconyxdiablus • 15h ago
General I hate media that blames the user solely for getting addicted to consumerism as if they weren't the ones who bombarded them with ads and targeted marketing
I hate media where the populace or characters get addicted to stuff like phones or general crap, and the work blames them solely for getting hooked, no mention is made of corpirations' targeted ads that made you buy it in the first place.
It feels like both victim blaming at this point so corpirations that own said works don't have to take any accountability, "we're not the ones who put the phone in your hand after we demanded you put it there!".
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u/-PISS-2 fat farting furry 15h ago
The other make sense but Fahrenheit 451 really doesn't have to do with mindless consumerism?? The book is about banning information, literature and basic freedoms of knowledge and keeping people subservient to higher powers then just Corpo cunts wanting people in their grasp like their personal play toy
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u/Geoconyxdiablus 15h ago
F451 says the people decided challenig media was bad because it made them feel sad, when we know damn well IRL its usually corpos and rich whispering in our ears.
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u/Big_Hat_Jow 14h ago
Don’t forget that was a comment that came from someone in a position of power that could easily be lying to the main character. The chief is an intellectual that knows how to word and change facts to fit his narrative and push his world veiw. So of course he will blame the populace he is the opposite of the old man who helps the main character.
The story’s also a warning for the populace to remind them that they do have a duty to call out those in power and the loud minority that makes demands of the majority and force them into a way of life. But it is also about not getting lost in consumerism, so I can agree it does have some victim blaming, but it comes from a point of truth that we do have a responsibility too call out what’s happening or make choices to not consume. It’s also up to you to see propaganda, recognize it, and not let it influence you or try to not let it influence others.
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u/Terrible-Design4545 14h ago
I think you might be taking things too personally and misinterpretation it as a result...
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u/8lue5hift 11h ago
Beatty is literally a liar who has every incentive to twist the truth when speaking to Montag.
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u/StormDragonAlthazar A furry who hates Zootopia 12h ago
And yet, on this very website, go look around at how many people are really uncomfortable watching R rated movies or reading books aimed at adults.
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u/broncyobo 10h ago
It's been forever since I read it but I remember having the impression that this was a sentiment orchestrated or at least encouraged by powerful institutions rather than something that emerged totally organically that the institutions were simply responding to
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u/AltruisticNGlassy 7h ago
You’re literally quoting the rich corpo interest whispering in that book’s protagonist’s ears lmao.
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u/fiyerooo 13h ago
i remember reading this book for school when the airpod first came out. i still only use wired earbuds lol, i thought everyone was losing their minds how quickly they adopted them
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u/TheReal_Dick_Grayson 13h ago
The AirPods are not evil because there were evil wireless earbuds in the book. That’s not how tech works.
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u/fiyerooo 12h ago
lol it reminded me of the seashells his wife wore, because so many kids i knew started wearing the airpods legitimately all the time. again we were 9th graders, and as a pseudo-philosophical 14 year old it felt like an apt comparison.
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u/Greedy_Ad_3985 15h ago edited 8h ago
Fahrenheit does not blame the reader. In 1953 (the year when Fahrenheit 451 was released) TV was still new and considered a luxurious entertainment worldwide. Ray Bradbury was worried of the rise of continous and accelerated Consumption of content and destruction of intellectual media, literature and philosophy. Similiar to 1984, It is a warning for rather than an act of blaming for the wiewer. In Fahrenheit 451, people are constantly watching short timed ads, summerized matches, shows and documentries at which point it is shortening their attention span and exposed to constant doctrination of book hate and toxic positivity, conjuring anti-intellectualism.
Sounds familiar? Because it is basically how social media is right now. We just don't have mechanical arachnoid hounds yet.
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u/InstructionDismal391 13h ago
I read the book for the second time a few months ago.
He was spot on with how bad attention spans would become.
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u/Fluffy-Froyo4549 Harry Potter franchise's biggest hater 4h ago
he outright said in the book if the TV stuff was produced with more substance and soul it wouldn't be a problem
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u/Geoconyxdiablus 15h ago edited 14h ago
Well who do you think made the TVS and market them as luxery? Not Ray.
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u/Xorvictia 15h ago
Yeah, the book does not blame the individual, it blames the system that made them this way. That’s the whole point of it being illegal to own books. The slow control of population through distraction and consumerism is literally the entire point of the book.
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u/Charming-Speech5680 11h ago
Kind of, anti-intellectualism is just as prevalent of a message as the surveillance. It's been a while since I read it, but I think it's either in the book or by bradbury himself where they discuss how the books were banned because of the will of the populace before the government actually took action. Funny how media usually gets the general gist of the future, but fahrenheit 451 has almost done it exactly minus the theatrics
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u/SavagePeace23 14h ago
You're right. Ray Bradbury single handedly created, marketed, and fostered a culture of commercialism around TV.
He's the villain of the 20th century who has gone unchallenged for too long.
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u/PassionGlobal 14h ago
Not a science fiction author named Ray Bradbury?
Books are not like movies or shows, there's usually one person who writes them.
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u/SnooDoughnuts8043 15h ago
For the Berenstain Bears I get how they picture it because the book is meant to teach “hey kids don’t eat candy every single day just because it tastes good”. I don’t remember the resolution of that particular book but I’m pretty sure it ended in a way that wasn’t victim blaming, like the kids aren’t blamed for just liking the candy but are more so towards going for moderation.
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u/Geoconyxdiablus 15h ago
Well they didn't even acknoweldge kids only like cansy becaue they are bombared with ads.
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u/FickleCook3639 14h ago
This is an insane, out of touch take.
Kids don’t only like candy because of ads. They like candy mostly because it tastes good. They can be driven to certain brands of candy through marketing but they’ll consume sugary foods regardless of the presence of advertisements.
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u/SnooDoughnuts8043 15h ago
If it was made in the modern world I could see it (like the first image video), but this book in particular is released in 1988 - way before we have the “handheld add machine”.
Not saying there weren’t any adds back then, there definitely were, but they were waaaay less than now and kids didn’t have a device in their pocket that constantly showed them adds while playing.
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u/giljaxonn 12h ago
almost all the shows kids watched in the 80s were toy ads but you are right about there being much more now, plus kids used to go outside and play and read books. now play and book is phone
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u/m0rganfailure 14h ago
well that's not true, is it. it's all the shit they put inside to make it taste good
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u/Confuseasfuck 9h ago
Are you seriously saying that sugar is popular with kids becausd of ads? One of the most sought after foodstuff in history?
Literally the thing that was literally the backbone of the economy of an entire continent, the thing that is responsible for so much of our history today because of how much people wanted it, to the point that it was called "white gold"? The thing that the entire world is addicted on from the moment they stop drinking their mothers milk?
If there is one thing that doesnt need ads for kids to want it, its sugar. People fucking love sugar
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u/Captain_Blackjack0 15h ago
Even Marx understood the value of chillin’
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u/Snoo_44740 14h ago
Now this isn’t even true anymore. Capital rots with inflation, faster than clothes rot to moths.
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u/BlooGloop 14h ago
Have you read Fahrenheit 451? If you are unable to grasp a basic concept, I would suggest starting at a lower reading level.
https://giphy.com/gifs/WRgsiNC2GCn21l4gtV
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u/Inevitable-Fish2739 15h ago
There's plenty to criticize with capitalism/modern culture, but I will always love books and video games. They bring me so much joy.
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u/PrettyyMystique 15h ago
Exactly, blaming the consumer while ignoring the machine built to keep them consuming is way too convenient
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u/Foxy02016YT 12h ago
Bo Burnham calls this out in Welcome to the Internet
“Mommy let you use her iPad, you were barely two, and it did all the things we designed it to do”
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u/VenatorAngel 12h ago
Man was a prophet.
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u/Foxy02016YT 11h ago
I think he was just aware of the world around him
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u/TediousTotoro 10h ago
Same thing with The Simpsons. People say it predicts the future but it’s just fairly easy to figure out where politics is going if you’re knowledgeable about what’s currently happening.
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u/Foxy02016YT 10h ago
Also Trump being president was a joke, and had been for quite a bit. 2016 wasn’t his first bid either
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u/JamiesBond007 10h ago
He said that shit years before Inside as well, people were just always busy just laughing instead of actively listening.
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u/OhMySwirls 13h ago
Every time I se that "Are You Lost in the World Like Me?" I still think about that LetterboxD review where a guy's review was about how his teacher showed this off in class and another student called it gay, so the teacher had to walk outside to calm themselves down.
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u/FarmerTwink 14h ago
Oh I will say that children are just like that actually, they’ll do it with the leaves on the ground
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u/StormDragonAlthazar A furry who hates Zootopia 12h ago
I feel like a lot of people are getting Fahrenheit 451 wrong.
Yes, part of what's going on with the book is that people have gotten addicted to their screens, short form content, and getting lost in their own little media worlds, but also that society kind of collectively decided that it was important to "get rid of anything that makes me uncomfortable" as well as to just constantly keep themselves "busy" with as much senseless activity as possible so as to not have to time really "think" about things (I mean, it's a society that got rid of rocking chairs and front porches for crying out loud). Bradbury himself has kind of flip-flopped on whether it's about censorship and the surveillance state or if it's about how pop culture makes us stupid and anti-intellectualism, but I feel like as time moves we can say it can very easily be both of those things.
As for my own thoughts on the book and how it relates to our present time (recently re-read it last month), I'd list out these things:
- Online puritanism and how people assume that if you "mention it" then you must "endorse it," which means ignoring or outright getting rid of media that might make them uncomfortable (usually adult oriented stuff).
- Fandom culture and how it creates a weird parasocial relationship with both the fictional characters (Well, does your family really love you, Mildred?) and creators.
- The fact that a lot people online only want to watch animated media and try to elevate animation as the "ultimate storytelling medium" simply because it's the most "visually inoffensive" and because it really doesn't require that much intellectual investment (most cartoons run on black and white morality, things are designed so it's obvious what's the bad guy and good guy, stories tend to be really simple, all that jazz).
- The whole "grindset" attitude when it comes to work and play, as if simply sitting around for a moment is a mortal sin, or worse, has them thinking about things that might make them uncomfortable.
- The addiction to short-form content. In F451, it's mostly ads, cartoons, game shows, and weird/violent shorts. For the modern times, it's silly meme videos, an influencer, candid camera moments where people humiliate themselves, and cartoon clips.
- Likewise, in conjunction with the above, the lack of critical thinking and media literacy due to never actually engaging with anything that could challenge your and/or relying on secondhand information from a guy on YouTube. This results in people being more of a "fact bank" or "trivia bank" that on the surface makes them seem smart but ultimately it's all hollow.
- How we just sort of not care about the future generation. Throwing a kid in the TV parlor or tossing them an iPad while at home and then sending them to school where they're just being babysat isn't doing them any good.
- How we just ignore the real problems in the real world because we're too lost in our own little media bubbles.
Holy crap that is a lot of shit I typed up... And this is just a sort of shit-posty subreddit.
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u/Much-Government-8803 13h ago
Nah you have self responsibility and your own will. You should as a person be able to think for yourself, else why do you even exist as a human at all? If you constantly blame cooperations and marketing then nothing will change as they obviously won't stop
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u/Expert-Bet7630 14h ago
The Boys moment: “hey guys, consumerism and capitalism is le bad”
Also here’s our three spinoffs, COD crossover, ads in the middle of our episodes and openly produced by Amazon (also enjoy Butcher ordering connect 4 from Amazon prime)
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u/TronHero143 14h ago
On one hand, sure, pressure from ads and marketing analytics creates an environment that's very easy for a consumer to always want to buy more and more. Privacy is a big issue in marketing for consumers.
On the other hand, a company can't MAKE YOU buy something. You buying a new phone is of your own volition. If they could just make you buy something, then why does marketing exist in the first place?
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u/TheGreatLuck 14h ago
They will certainly can and will make you buy things. I want you to do me a favor. I need you to go a week without consuming any water. That you have to pay for it. You have to pay for the water in the tap so you're not allow to use that. No bottled water obviously just drinking from streams if you can find a clean one that isn't being polluted in buy said corporations. tell me how that works out for you.
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u/True_Vault_Hunter 13h ago
There are people right now living in the middle of butt fuck nowhere doing this right now!
I'm not saying I can do. It but have some personal responsibility and learn to do it yourself. Instead of blaming corporations for why you can't survive in the wilderness.
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u/TheGreatLuck 12h ago
I mean like making the argument that you shouldn't have to just because they want to make you believe that natural resources are a commodity that involves any kind of capital
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u/TronHero143 8h ago
Well, by the conditions of your comment, I might be able to purchase any filtration system that I need to filter the chemicals, pathogens, or whatever in the water. You only said I couldn't purchase water, not that I couldn't buy anything.
But let's say I couldn't buy anything, that I'd have to use resources near me to make the water safe for me to drink. Well, all I can really do is boil the water, which from a bit of research tells me it won't remove the chemicals from said water. It won't harm me in the short run though, so I would still be able to complete the challenge.
As well, if I really wanna stretch the challenge, I could just find a water fountain at some park or something and get water from that.
But, anyways, I think you misunderstood what I mean. As I've laid out, I have choices whether or not I want to buy bottled water. Whilst those choices may be inconvenient or expensive, they're still choices that could make, similar to making the choice to get bottled water or drink from the tap. No marketer can shove a water bottle into my hands and then say 'give me money'. Is it BS that companies have polluted our waters and everything else? Of course. Does getting a bombarded with a bunch of ads about bottled water and other useless shit annoying? Yes, it is. But a company can't force you to buy something, that is the consumer's choice alone, otherwise marketing as a field would not need to exist.
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u/TheGreatLuck 8h ago
Listen to some BS semantics I ain't going to finish reading it you know what I mean
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u/BudgieWonder 3h ago
While I get what you’re saying, a lot of those choices aren’t accessible to the average person (especially if they’re scaled up), and they’re largely captured by markets or regulation. I do agree that a lot of choices people make are ultimately choices of convenience, but they don’t have to be.
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u/TronHero143 3h ago
I agree with the “laws and regulations” argument, since ultimately installing a well or something that requires you to own land is more difficult than simply buying a bottle of water. I’m merely stating that these things are available and we as consumers are not 100% restricted from doing these things.
However, if you wouldn’t mind, could you further explain your comment about how choices of convenience “don’t have to be”? Are you saying certain factors could be less restrictive (whether that’s a regulation or something else) so that we could have access to more options?
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u/Heavy_Computer2602 11h ago
farenheit 451 is about authoritarianism, and very dystopian at that. you couldve put fight club in that place
tho i get your messafe
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u/BlaineMundane 15h ago
I totally get this because consumerism is a science that had been developed to a fine tooth and it's VERY effective. Yet, at the same time it's also hard to relate because I barely buy anything at all. I don't follow products or brands, I don't look forward to the release of ANY consumer product and I just don't generally desire things in a way that makes advertising effective.
Part of me WANTS to blame the consumer, but at the end of the day I don't. The world is very good at what it does.
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u/Rahvithecolorful 13h ago
I try to remind myself that, just like I have my sensory issues that most people don't and wouldn't understand, and some are much more prone to addiction than others, some people are just wired to be more influenced by peer pressure/advertising than I personally am, and that isn't their fault.
If anything I'm just grateful to not struggle much in that area and sympathetic to how much it can mess with people.
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u/arrows_of_ithilien 14h ago
Ads and marketing don't MAKE you do anything. It's still your free will to consume. Saying otherwise is pretty infantilizing. Yes, a lot of people have given in to the consumer mentality so much that their resistance to marketing is dulled, but it's still their choice to get the newest iPhone the moment it drops.
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u/NoDog8746 13h ago
You could say the same about any form of psychological manipulation or abuse. But, personally, I don't want to live in a society where billionaire corporations are actively trying to develop new and more effective ways to manipulate myself, my children, and others. This why cartoon characters were banned from selling cigarettes. This is why we need tighter restrictions on social media companies that are actively working on how to hijack attention spans, especially for our most vulnerable populations.
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u/ThatExchange2717 13h ago
You’ve articulated it quite well. It’s alarming to know there are marketing psychologists that use something based on helping people to find ways to manipulate people into buying stuff. It’s good that social media companies are finally starting to be held accountable for all the pain and suffering they caused. Meta is trying to lobby that their products are safe and push accountability on parents. In one case a girl had absolutely no social media was targeted
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u/giljaxonn 12h ago
some psychology concepts were developed FROM our observations on behavior after exposure to advertising. both fields started around the same time
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u/Beatrice_Hrsman_gmng 14h ago
Also being forced to work most your waking life your looking for something to reward yourself. This is the natural consequence of being in a crappy environment most of the time. Need to motivate oneself with small rewards.
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u/Jerakal1 14h ago
The amount of absolut mental gymnastics I seen from capitalist cultists who blame the people for falling for the various traps of capitalism instead of addressing the very real dark psychology meant to manipulate them will always be so annoying.
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u/Puzzled-Cookie-4837 13h ago
I always go “shouldn’t this be a book?” At stuff like the first example
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u/mangoblaster85 12h ago
The way I see it, we have the freedom to be mad at the previous generation for not being better all we want.
But whether or not we do that, we have the opportunity to do better, and I find that to be a far more favorable investment of my energy as I feel less stressed and/or antagonized.
Consider which politicians vote in favor of consumer protection policies against exploitatively aggressive advertising practices when you choose which candidates to vote for. Let your representatives at the state and federal level know this is an issue for society and warrants remedy.
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u/Captain_JohnBrown 5h ago
I always have to laugh at these "cell phones are warping people's minds and making them callous and disconnected from the world" as if every generation hasn't had their version of it going back to the invention of the printing press, where printed books were viewed by the old guard as, just as Tiktok is today, mass-marketed slop with which no care was taken either by creator or consumer and which was rotting people's minds and corrupted their souls.
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u/Reds_Strongest_Chef 15h ago
"The corporations forced me to be socially braindead."
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u/According-Value-6227 15h ago
The worst part about "Moby and the Void Pacific Choir" is that it's the probably one of the top 100 coolest artist/band names but everything he makes is pretty awful.
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u/butterworthbonbon 14h ago
Ray Bradbury did what?? omg unfollowing him on all socials rn op I had no idea he was problematic
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u/Mrgrayj_121 13h ago
OK Fahrenheit 451 was more about like propaganda and a little bit of government control like there’s consumerism and like you know not wanting to learn more but like in terms of science fiction yeah it’s like a world that’s like so busy with like trying to speed everything up at atomic war perfect by any means and I realize it might be something about consumers. I forget the author said something weird a while ago, but yeah it’s like about a fascist government is there.
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u/ZioBenny97 Professional Hatemonger 11h ago
The most memorable thing about "Are you lost yadda yadda" for me is the one teacher who got seething mad about a kid in his class calling it gay or something
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u/putbeansontoast 14h ago
Was I the only kid who was raised properly and wasn't screaming in the store for toys and candy?!
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u/CanApart1420 14h ago
You are trained as a child to over consume and then it's treated as a moral failing if you do it as an adult.
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u/Salty_Map_9085 14h ago
Blaming corporations for consumerism, climate change, etc. is an annoying midwit position. It certainly has some surface level truth, to it, but when you dig a little deeper responsibility returns to the individual to make changes.
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u/TheGreatLuck 14h ago
We can't all be Luigi
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u/Salty_Map_9085 13h ago
The thing is we can. We, of course including me, generally decide that the cost is not worth it, but the cost is theoretically payable, you or I could actually be Luigi.
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u/Forsaken-Weekend-962 4h ago
I don’t know, something tells me the book for six year olds is more focused on teaching kids self-control than criticizing the corporations they don’t even understand.
Seriously, you have the choice to be consumeristic or not. Most people grow out of the “I have to have this advertised product because it looks cool,” mindset by the end of childhood. An adult who’s responsible with their money isn’t going to buy something they don’t need or want just because they keep seeing advertisements for it, and if you are an adult who relies on advertisements to determine what you buy, that’s an issue.
You can’t ignore consumers in this discussion because companies (barring any government handouts) won’t succeed without a willing consumer base. Also, you can consume an advertised product without overconsumption. I’m drinking a Dr. Pepper right now which is an unhealthy drink that I (hypothetically) only enjoy because of the ads on football games and the association with my grandfather. However, this has been my only bottle in a long time. I’m not drinking one a day it only drinking other Coca Cola products. Even something I use everyday and have “brand loyalty” to like Old Spice is something I use out of preference, yes, but also necessity. We should strive to be responsible with our purchases because while it’s impossible to never buy ANYTHING, it’s totally possible to only buy what you need and only occasionally treat yourself.
Also, as many people have pointed out Fahrenheit 451 is about a dystopian government first and foremost. Folks don’t realize that the government is much more capable of manipulating your purchasing power than even the most powerful independent corporations, simply because they can choose who to economically boost and who to suppress. As always, powerful governments are always the worst offenders, but none of that totally mitigates personal responsibility barring the most extreme examples of totalitarian governments in fiction and reality.
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u/JonathanStones1989 Lord of Green 15h ago
The first one is so incredibly corny it is actively hard to watch