r/explainlikeimfive • • 1d ago

Technology Eli5 How does a laser pointer affect a surveillance camera?

23 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

61

u/oregon_coastal 1d ago

Think of some lasers like a really focuaed beam of sunlight. If you point it at your eye, it burns it and blinds it.

Think if a camera as having a light sensor in it, much like you eye. It also has a lense, which focuses a wider band of light into a narrower frame, just like the lens of your eye.

Pointing the right type laser right at the camera has the same effect as looking directly at the sun and the sensor is damaged (blinded).

22

u/jenkag 1d ago

can you fuck up flock cameras with laser pointers? asking for science, or a friend.

32

u/oregon_coastal 1d ago

I have heard that green lasers in the 490 to 570 nanometers range and over 1000 mw will cause permanent damage. Lower power might cause overflash (white out the entire image.) Not that I would ever do it, of course :-D

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u/zekromNLR 22h ago

Those lasers can also easily cause permanent damage to people's vision, even from a small bit of the beam reflected off of something shiny, if they aren't wearing proper protective glasses.

Fortunately, glass is transparent to a wider range of wavelengths than the human eye is, and Flock cameras, being near-infrared, probably do not contain an IR filter like a lot of digital colour cameras do. Lasers with a wavelength over 1500 nm do not shine through the lens of the eye (and so do not cause instant permanent vision loss just from a small reflection), but up to about 2500 nm they shine through and are focused by glass lenses just fine.

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u/oregon_coastal 22h ago

Oh I didn't even think ir !

6

u/engineer_965 1d ago

Sensors are not damaged by lasers unless you're using very dangerous ones that would blind people.

10

u/BananaBird1 1d ago

This power of laser isn’t hard to come by. You don’t need to be dealing with an industrial power laser or anything. Even some handheld laser pointers that do not comply with regulations fall into this.

Lenses can also concentrate the light into higher power per area. So even a generally safe 5 mW laser may be damaging through the right lens.

6

u/LuLeBe 1d ago

How come that lasers on concerts regularly damage camera sensors?

12

u/DigiTheInformer 1d ago

Nor all lasers are safe, not all concert designers are smart.

"More bright equals more fun." /s

If the concert was being safe the laser lines would never come down to human hight, they would always be pointing over head to avoid the eye danger.

6

u/hirmuolio 1d ago

They often are the dangerous kinds of lasers that would blind a person.

Also humans can look away/close eyes. Camera will just suffer silently. IIRC class 2 lasers are "safe" with the assumption that you blink when you see them.

1

u/LuLeBe 1d ago

Okay the blinking makes sense. Because when the laser damages a phone camera, a person could stand at the same place and get hit by it, so it really should be safe for people.

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u/WarriorNN 1d ago

Any properly set up lasershow should never ever hit the crowds at all.

1

u/LuLeBe 1d ago

Hm, perhaps those that reported their phones getting damaged stood at an unexpected position then (like an elevated position behind the soundboard or so) or the setup was incorrect. But I've definitely seen a few reports about that over the years on Reddit, sometimes even with video where you can see the intact picture first and then part of the sensor gets damaged.

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u/WarriorNN 23h ago

I do believe there are lots of improper setups

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u/X7123M3-256 21h ago

Okay the blinking makes sense

The blink reflex will protect you from a low powered laser pointer (even they can do damage if you deliberately stare into the beam), but it will absolutely not protect you from the kind of lasers used at concerts, which are powerful enough to cause eye damage in milliseconds far faster than you can blink. These lasers are often 1000 times more powerful than what would be considered safe to point at your eye.

so it really should be safe for people

Should be but often aren't. I talked to a guy who did laser shows professionally and he was talking about all the sketchy setups he had seen. Not everyone who buys a laser knows how to be safe with it.

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u/breadinabox 17h ago

Laser's at concerts are insanely powerful and can blind people? They're not supposed to be aimed into the crowd 

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u/paulmarchant 11h ago

Nah, I work for a TV camera manufacturer. I've had to repair cameras (replace sensor boards) that have been burned with night-club style laser displays. It takes less power than you might think.

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u/engineer_965 7h ago

Those lasers are not eye safe though either.

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u/TokiStark 10h ago

That would be most lasers

22

u/crowediddly 1d ago

Any easily bought laser pointer will do absolutely nothing except create glare and obscure some of the picture while the laser is being shined.

8

u/SoulWager 1d ago

You would hope, but sometimes the cheap laser pointers are way over their labeled power.

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u/Logitech4873 20h ago

You can very easily buy extremely powerful lasers.

6

u/dfmz 1d ago

Ok, let's clear things up a bit.

Run-of-the-mill, consumer-grade laser pointers will do jack shit to a quality sensor, aside from maybe causing the picture to bloom temporarily, only to recover after a few seconds. To do real, lasting harm, you'd need a rather powerful laser to begin with, ideally a green one (red is less effective at equal power) or an IR laser, especially a military-grade one (not normally sold to civilians), which would cause temporary blinding of the sensor and possibly permanent damage if sustained, which would require very precise collimation - think of the laser on a very, very stable, non-vibrating stand that is capable of holding its position to the millimeter over time.

Especially powerful lasers, like those sold by companies such as Wicked Lasers, would easily destroy the sensor, but they're hard to find nowadays, because they're incredibly dangerous to use (as are IR lasers), and the truly powerful ones are very expensive.

So yes, it's possible to obfuscate a camera sensor, but not with a standard laser pointer, at least not for more than a couple of seconds. The precision needed to keep the beam focused on the sensor long enough to destroy it isn't possible with a handheld device, period.

4

u/CfaxAttax 1d ago

Imagine you're staring at a really bright light for a minute and then turn your head to look at something else.. There is a short delay before the bright "halo" of light dissipates and you can see clearly again. This is basically what is going on with a camera. The camera uses very sensitive light receptors to pick up changes in light and a normal laser pointer will temporarily blind those sensors in the same way. A stronger, higher powered laser, can actually burn out the individual receptors and permanently damage the image by causing the receptors responsible for specific pixels to fail and go dark.

2

u/Arcticbuzz10 1d ago

Generally speaking, with "regular lasers", it does not - it's mostly a movies thing.
However, cameras are like your eyes - they concentrate light into a small area, then capture and process it. If that small area is flooded with too much light (e.g. you look at the sun, or a very strong laser points at a camera), it could become temporarily or permanently damaged.

Depending on how the light hits the sensor, whether it's focused on a few pixels are more spread out, it could actually burn (the photodiodes in) it, leaving an area that can't capture light anymore.

1

u/Ninfyr 1d ago

Depending on the power of the laser pointer it might permanently burn the image sensor, but I wouldn't say that a typical laser pointer would do that.

2

u/crowediddly 1d ago

I will explicitly say that a typical laser pointer will NOT do anything of the sort.

The type of laser that would damage a security camera would also be extraordinarily dangerous to human eyes, which is why they generally aren't available for purchase on the open consumer market.

3

u/ml20s 1d ago

The type of laser that would damage a security camera would also be extraordinarily dangerous to human eyes, which is why they generally aren't available for purchase on the open consumer market.

At least in the US, any rando can just buy one. It is very, very easy to get into big trouble (i.e., eye or skin injury) with lasers.

1

u/Not_an_okama 1d ago

Back in my school days, one of the other middle schools in our district that a bunch of my friends went to would send the 8th graders that took chinese to china for a week over one of the breaks. Basically everyone would come home woth high powered laser pointers every year. My friend was showing me how his was more powerfull then the one his sister got 3 years prior. His was capable of popping balloons if held on the same spot for a few seconds.

0

u/iprobablybrokeit 1d ago

Sending 8th graders to China is wild.

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u/Ninfyr 1d ago

Language students taking international trips is pretty normal.

1

u/Not_an_okama 1d ago

Basically everyone had a parent attend as well, but we were also the rich school district, i was one of the poorer kids despite coming from an upper middle class family.

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u/Gentle_Agitator 1d ago

Or airplanes

0

u/DonFrio 1d ago

Except Amazon sells plenty of them

-1

u/SoulWager 1d ago

which is why they generally aren't available for purchase on the open consumer market.

They are though. And worse, cheap lasers are often way over their listed power level.

Amazon/Aliexpress don't care.

0

u/Far-Drawing-4444 1d ago

If it's powerful enough, it fries the photosensor, effectively blinding the camera. Like how pointing a laser into your eye would "burn" your retina.

A weaker laser would just temporarily overwhelm the photosensor. Similar to how a very bright spotlight aimed at you at night "blinds" you until the light is turned off.

2

u/SoulWager 1d ago

Can permanently damage the sensor without completely blinding it though. On laser-related youtube channels you'll sometimes see some discolored spots in the video from prior damage.

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u/therealdilbert 23h ago

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u/Dickulture 22h ago

Yikes, that should be illegal to have unshielded laser blasting out frying eyes and camera.

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u/nickh84 5h ago

infrared too, so u wont even see it.