r/europe • u/OtherwiseCanary8971 • 1d ago
News Allies did not warn Kyiv of Russian ballistic missile strikes, says Zelenskyy
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/oct/13/allies-did-not-warn-kyiv-of-russian-ballistic-missile-strikes-says-zelenskyy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other64
u/One-Reflection-4826 23h ago
> Speaking in Warsaw, Ukraine’s foreign minister, Andrii Sybiha, indicated that cooperation with the US was continuing and said the lack of warning about the Kyiv attack was due to a “special type” of Russian weaponry.
make of that what you will.
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u/drock4vu 19h ago edited 18h ago
Insane how far you have to scroll to find someone who read the article and got context. Sensationalist title doesn’t help at all.
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u/Any-Original-6113 1d ago
What everyone feared. It should be understood that the next step, if Ukraine doesn’t comply with Trump’s instructions (and therefore Putin’s), will be a degradation of Starlink service in some sectors of the line of contact.
What did Putin promise Trump? A share of oil and gas profits? Help in making Iran more compliant? Or something bigger?
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u/sladkyi_hleb 1d ago
> What did Putin promise Trump?
Literally nothing. He likes the concept of being among friends with dictators, because it seems to him easy - give a GREAT DEAL, get some imaginary benefit from it, and declare himself a winner. He doesn't give a single fuck about Ukraine, he literally wants Ukraine to lose and dissapear. For him it's like a splinter that gets in the way.Fucking ghouls.
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u/fadka21 Denmark 1d ago
Also, don’t forget that Trump hates Zelenskyy. In his diseased, narcissistic mind, Zelenskyy is the reason he got impeached and lost the 2020 election. And Trump is nothing if not petty, he can nurse a grudge until it dies of old age.
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u/neopard_ Germany 21h ago edited 21h ago
it's not that simple that he "hates" zelenskyy, he is simultaneously deeply afraid of what zelenskyy is and craving his approval. he is also stupid and easily manipulated so his internal perception has shifted towards a certain bias of perceiving himself as an equal to the other big autocrats of the world (see my other comment https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1x5h8f9/allies_did_not_warn_kyiv_of_russian_ballistic/pgnomx2/ ) while a smarter narcissist could have played on the strength and approval of ukraine and the free world. he is, it must be said, the perfect man in the perfect position for the downfall of the USA. putin, kim, conservatives and their ilk and to some extend even xi's wet dream come true. you can see putin genuinely grinning in delight when he interacts with trump freely. trump is dumb enough to perceive this as personal approval and putin is grinning even more because he knows he doesn't even have to hide it. it's comical if it was not so tragically global.
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u/sladkyi_hleb 21h ago
One more thing. Trump think he lost because Ukraine refused to give him information about Hunter Biden in 2019, I remember that.
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u/neopard_ Germany 21h ago
oh god yes, nothing holds a pointless petty grudge better than a narcissist's mind. trump might have forgotten the incident but the vibes will persist in his mind.
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u/Pandektes Poland 19h ago
Yeah, you can see that China and Russia are delighted with Trump. Russia would probably already lost the war and China wouldn't expand their influence so freely.
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u/neopard_ Germany 22h ago
attribution error. he doesn't want ukraine to lose and disappear, but rather, you were correct in the first part of the sentence - he doesn't give a single fuck about ukraine. his mind simply cannot care about people the same way we can. zelenskyy makes him uncomfortable and secretly intimidates him because his persona illuminates his own shortcomings and is the type of person who is ultimately a narcissist's downfall. on the other hand he loves attention from people like putin, xi, etc. because he fancies himself their equal (which he is not by any means..) as they play along making him feel important because for them it's a dream come true, practically the boss of the USA as a string puppet, but with very short strings you can't reliably hold for long. for putin this is a home game. xi is probably weary because a destabilised situation wasn't actually in china's game plan - but won't stop them to take advantage if they can. kim is a special case. trump genuinely adores kim in a narcissistic way being simultaneously jealous of what kim has, and believing he can have the same thing.
problem people keep making these attribution errors because it is very hard to "empathise" with a narcissistic mind in the sense that a non-narcissistic mind will always try to "make sense" of behaviours. it's easier to understand psychopaths and sociopaths because despite their shortcomings they still think in straight lines. the narcissist does not, he is trapped in an internal world motivated by an interaction of shame and jealousy and compensatory self-glorification.
you can always "play a rational game" with a psychopath even if they will give zero fucks and stab you in the back when it is opportune, but you can't do the same with a narcissist. they are dangerously unpredictable. we've seen this behaviour very clearly. just examine the difference between how putin communicates and commits and is "victim" of yes-men as a side effect (secondary psychopath/sociopath) and trump's complete lack of follow through and commitment to anything except his internal perception of his prestige and surrounds himself with sycophants on purpose.
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u/MournerV Ukraine 1d ago
This already happened. Starlink severely restricted for Ukrainian Armed Forces as of this morning.
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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 1d ago
I think the calls go more along the lines of "you do what I say, or the videos of you with underage girls will end up on the internet."
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u/VecioRompibae Veneto 1d ago
Would that even work? From what already happened I doubt it would make a dent on his support.
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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 1d ago
If they have proof of him being involved in child trafficking for 50 years, I'm pretty sure only the dumbest conspiracy nuts would still stick with him.
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u/VecioRompibae Veneto 1d ago
So, the trial where he couldn't get condemned because he was already president?
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u/neopard_ Germany 21h ago
this may have been the case long ago. now it's simply a question of honeying him up and gently feeding his self-reinforced believe that he will be a successful autocrat like putin himself. he has firmly crossed the rubicon of self-delusion, personally this was evident since the whole "suit" incident. anyone who would have a psychological profile of him would have known this much sooner. unlike trump, putin reads the briefs and dossiers he is provided..
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u/_0611 The Netherlands 1d ago
Starlink
And Europe is to blame for that, too. This war started in 2014. Where is our own Starlink? Why don't we have that? We needed it yesterday, but at this rate we'll get it at the end of this century. If we're lucky.
It's fucking insane and infuriating that things are still moving too slow in Europe.
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u/magpieswooper 23h ago
Europe in 2014 pretended Crimea annexation never happened and was busy building nordsfream2, to rise russian gas dependancy from sub 30 to over 50 percent (German numbers).
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u/Just_Perception3668 22h ago
Merkel has probably done the most damage to Germany and the whole of Europe in the 2010s
If I were Putin, I’d give her a medal
She didn’t try as hard as Schröder, but she still did a lot for Putin
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u/neopard_ Germany 21h ago
i see this repeated a lot lately. there's a bit of a misconception here and i'm not sure where it came from. while merkel certainly is smart and tried to play the game, she was always kind of out of her depth when dealing with autocrats and power-focused people (she made a good attempt to maneuver merz out of the way because she knew about his ambitions and she knew he would make a terrible chancellor, for example. she gave him the fraktionsvorsitz because that's traditionally where you send people like that to satisfy their ambitions and safely "park" them.) it worked for a while, but ultimately, merz weaseled his way back regardless during the mess created with scholz, the afd etc. you can't say she didn't try or claim she was shortsighted in things like this, she wasn't, and she tried.
merkel herself has clearly stated that she is not in support of nordstream 2 without ukraine. see here, top 1.: https://dserver.bundestag.de/btd/19/019/1901908.pdf
however, she was also always a weak technocrat kind of chancellor who tried her best to control and navigate an openly "conservative" environment while staying loyal to her centrist conviction. she just wasn't very good at it. she's a christian from an evangelic pastor's family, she firmly believed in nonviolent conflict resolution and the greater good. i never envied her position. people cast a lot of shade on her because she was the head of government, but our government is not just one person. ultimately, it's not so much merkel that has failed. it is centrism that has failed. making her a scapegoat detracts from the issue at core.
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u/Just_Perception3668 18h ago
to many words
1 her policy with russia and migrants ended very bad
2 she was in power for to long
transition of power are good thing, even for Germany which wasnt dictators country at that time
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u/neopard_ Germany 16h ago
it's important not to lose the bigger picture. point is things would not have been better with a different centrist as chancellor, possibly worse. no arguments there.
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u/xrogaan Belgium 20h ago
she's a christian from an evangelic pastor's family, she firmly believed in nonviolent conflict resolution and the greater good
Has she read the bible? Numbers 31, 'nough said.
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u/neopard_ Germany 20h ago
it's more about socialisation and core believes, not so much about the actual biblical scripture. german evangelic culture isn't like "evangelicals", it's closer to humanism and being conflict-averse than to a religion in many ways
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u/Stokkolm Romania 20h ago
Trying to tame Russia was the right move. If it worked, things would have been much better now. If it didn't work, at least we have tested the theory. Otherwise if Russia was heavily blockaded and sanctioned before they did something to warrant it, now their aggression would be perceived as a reaction to being treated unjust.
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u/Just_Perception3668 19h ago
Of course, because appeasement has always worked, as history tells us.
Who better to know this than the Germans.
Otherwise
if Russia was heavily blockaded and sanctioned before they did something to warrant it, now their aggression would be perceived as a reaction to being treated unjustthis war would never have happened if, after 2014, the current sanctions had been imposed on Russia, and if, instead of banning arms supplies to Ukraine (just think how daft the West was), they had at least supplied some of what they’re supplying now.By the way, for the isolationists and those who favour realpolitik, it would still have worked out cheaper for the West than what it has already cost.
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u/Prudent-Title-9161 18h ago edited 18h ago
No, that would never have worked; the problem is that many in Europe failed (and still fail) to understand that one simply cannot negotiate with Russia at all. They merely use negotiations for manipulation; they are pathological liars who view everyone else solely as material to be exploited. Even now, many believe in the prospect of mythical negotiations and an end to the war, but it is all a deception. Russia simply wants to destroy Ukraine and has not wavered from that goal; all these attempts to negotiate are merely a ploy to confuse Ukraine’s allies (and Trump and the idiots around him are falling for it).
Russia, in its current form, can and must be compelled by force; if you try to negotiate with them, you are an idiot who wanted to be deceived.
Not a single word from Putin and his inner circle is worth a penny. Although, in reality, Putin also speaks a lot of truth - yet for some reason, everyone ignores it, because they don't want to accept a reality where he openly confirms his own batshit insanity.
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u/InsanityRequiem Californian 18h ago
Thank you for the current day war of genocide Russia is committing against Ukraine. The theory, proven by history, never worked. Your theory was used to explain why WW1 would not happen, why WW2 would not happen. And yet they did.
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u/Prudent-Title-9161 18h ago
By the way, I was just wondering yesterday: what influenced Germany to abandon nuclear power and get hooked on Russian gas? Could it have been the influence of Russian agents? Like Merkel, for instance.
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u/magpieswooper 18h ago
As far as I know Schroeder, pre Merkel chancelor, allready fixed the course to denuking. We all know he bought by Russia. Merkels however speed run the phase using Fukushima scare.
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u/BeatTheMarket30 European Union 1d ago
I believe Ukraine's surrender and exploitation was always Trump's plan.
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u/Bahamabanana 1d ago
Putin probably just told Trump that he could buy diesel from them on the cheap, if only the refineries weren't being attacked.
Like, I don't even think it's that deep, I think Trump is just that stupid and Putin is entirely aware.
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u/HunterFeeFee 11h ago
Not publishing the Epstein files? I doubt republicans would care one bit, never the less...
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u/Agile-Candle-626 England 1d ago
As long as european public opinion stays pro-ukraine Elon wont do that. Too much potential market share loss for his companies. But the requires the public to cause consequences
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u/katim777 1d ago
It's already done. They limited speed on terminals - so no drones can work on Starlink. Just went public from ukrainian officials
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u/Speedvagon 1d ago
Only a share in Lukoil when sold. Bitchkoff and Cuckshner are flying to Moscow only for that.
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u/No_Play_7695 21h ago
What happened to the France already provide intelligence to Ukraine to Trumps threats are meaningless?
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u/Exciting-Record8101 The Netherlands 12h ago
France provides a lot of intelligence, but this early warning of ballistic missile launches requires capabilities nobody in the EU has. Which is pretty damning, because as easy as it is to complain about the US in cases like this, we really should be able to do this. It's not like 'Russia launching missiles' is a new threat.
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u/TheKensei Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur (France) 19h ago
They do provide intelligence, but its capacity is not equal to the US, and also in that case, it's a "sudden drop" of starlink, so...
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u/Big_Marsupial2739 Germany 1d ago
I have sad suspicion that Europe is slowly moving to normalising idea of war in Ukraine, with the support slowly dropping, even thought its not that expensive if everyone works together.
This is what Russia wants and always does for 100 years. Invade, occupy, hold territory for years, everyone slowly accepts it to be Russian.
THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE.
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u/RustyHackerBoy 1d ago
Yes, and the right-wing-parties help very much with this process. Disinformation and fake news, manipulation and hybrid warfare... They know what they're doing, and we don't handle those things as we should!
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u/Iron-Warlock Veneto 23h ago
Left-wing too. There's two parties I can think of in Italy who are against sending weapons to Ukraine or increase military spending.
I wish I could meet someone with those ideas, because I honestly wonder - usually their explanation is "Diplomacy must be tried first, peace at all costs" - how do they think they can deal with Putin or its likes if they're unarmed? Diplomacy works only when both parties are willing to engage in it.
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u/RustyHackerBoy 22h ago
> "Left-wing too. There's two parties I can think of in Italy who are against sending weapons to Ukraine or increase military spending."
You are totally right. We have those idiots in Austria too.
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u/DavidHewlett 14h ago
And Belgium. The extreme left has been pretending Ukraine is a US/NATO action from the get go.
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u/mattijn13 The Netherlands 22h ago
Depends on where you are I guess, in the Netherlands the left is very much in favour of Ukraine and wants to keep supporting them and only the (far) right is pro Putin.
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u/GingerMessi Sweden 20h ago edited 20h ago
Depends on what the consensus in the country is, in my experience. If the public is polled and is overwhelmingly for active support of Ukraine, far left and right parties have less space to manoeuver. If it was a lot more contentious they would be more bold in their messaging, maybe support Ukraine by words but not by any concrete actions.
Our social democratic party and the left party were initially against sending weapons to Ukraine or joining NATO at the beginning of the full scale invasion but were browbeaten into submission because they realised how unpopular those stances were.
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u/PoiHolloi2020 United Kingdom 1d ago
with the support slowly dropping
Based on what? The funding packages haven't dipped AFAIK.
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u/Head-Roll2853 1d ago
Support is not slowly dropping. No idea where you read this. Ukraine support loan of 90 bln is active, beginning of this October the EU has passed the biggest sanctions on Russian assets so far, the same month negotiations have started for the acceptance of Ukraine to the EU and total support has risen to 230 bln.
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u/Alikont Kyiv (Ukraine) 1d ago
90bln is a loan that will be delivered over 2 years.
Mwanwhile Russia is now spending 200bln per year.
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u/Head-Roll2853 23h ago
I know its a loan. That’s what I said. And yes it’s a fact that Russia has a higher spending. However that is not an argument that the EU is decreasing support, and that is what this whole post is about.
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u/Shot-Resolve-9711 23h ago edited 23h ago
So what, do you want the EU to hand you $200 billion? Is $90 billion not enough free money for you? Is the largest foreign aid recipient in human history not getting enough?
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u/OMF1G 22h ago
This, I'm sick of seeing these bot "defeatist" comments saying how Ukraine will fall.
No they won't, we are not going to let them fall, and that's evidenced by the massive spending and sanctions that EU/UK is doing.
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u/FocusIntelligent9864 1d ago
None of the sanctions put in by EU on Russia so far has worked. Switzerland has the weakest sanctions on Russia in Europe. Japan is still doing business with Russia in oil field , China is thick and thin with Russia so is India & South Africa. France and Germany are slowly going back to old thought which is best described as “ Cheap gas and business globally good for gdp .”
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u/Head-Roll2853 1d ago
We are talking about the EU here. There is zero data that shows that military or financial support from the EU is declining.
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u/omgIamafraidofreddit 1d ago
mmmmmmmm. it sounds like the issue here is the US, which is unsurprising seeing that POTUS is a massive POS.
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u/T-rex_manchot 1d ago
He’s a POSTU, a POS to Ukrainians
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u/Stabile_Feldmaus Germany 1d ago
European Support is stable, it's US support that is dropping.
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u/Trackback_ 21h ago
That's like saying the few guys with scythes are still showing up, it's the massive combines are no longer coming to the wheat fields.
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u/Stabile_Feldmaus Germany 21h ago
European support is bigger than the one by the US, has been for a while
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u/closesuse 1d ago
I have sad suspicion that Germany is slowly moving to normalising idea of AfD and "russians not threat, cheap gas is saviour". And France too.
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u/Reasonable-Physics81 South Holland (Netherlands) 1d ago
France is too busy with their engineers protesting....which by the way, always vote AGAINST Europe and France and in favor of pretty much any enemy.
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u/Cobra8472 21h ago
It's up to all of us to make sure that doesn't happen. Inform, help, donate, mobilize.
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u/Cayote 18h ago
This is very specifically about the ballistic launch early warning system, which Europe simply doesn’t have and has relied on the US as part of NATO. What we’re seeing here is the US not providing intelligence, not Europe wavering in their commitment. Europe is working on their own system as part of a sovereign defence push, but it’s simply not there yet.
Tldr, Europe can’t provide intelligence it simply doesn’t possess (yet)
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u/Heavy_Secret_203 1d ago
I have sad suspicion that Europe is slowly moving to normalising idea of war in Ukraine,
It was like that since day one. Not since 2022, but 2014.
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u/SpaceEngineering Finland 1d ago
And not only AfD, the far left is also up this shit in many countries. We are severely screwed by energy politics if we fail to make life affordable without Russian gas.
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u/Karjavarastaja 1d ago
No, for the European countries the war isn't beneficial since the economic consequences are massive. That's exactly why some countries and politicians have pushed for Ukraine to capitulate, so that the relationship with Russia could be normalised. The approach should've been the complete opposite, massive support and even boots on the ground from the get-go.
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u/Hyndis United States of America 1d ago
I feel it should be one way or another. Either massive support to win the war. Or no support so at least its over quickly.
This halfway in the middle, kind of sort of supporting but always too little too late is the worst of both worlds.
War is horrible, but either you go to war or you don't. If you're going to do it you go all in, everything up front, zero holding back. The General Sherman approach. War is hell but at least go through it quickly.
And if you're not willing to do this stay home and don't even try.
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u/asrtaein 23h ago
Not necessarily. Not supporting at all just means the rest of eastern Europe is next. Going all out might trigger a nuclear war.
Just giving Ukraine enough, always seeming to be about to stop the support, so that Putin thinks he has a chance to win without (literally) going nuclear until it's too late and he can't even win with, might be our best strategy here (playing devil's advocate here)
There's also the public opinion to be considered. We have a lot of economic problems, trade wars with the USA and China, housing crisis, climate change and now also an oil crisis. Nobody wants to add a war with Russia to that list.
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u/yadasellsavonmate 1d ago edited 23h ago
The approach should've been the complete opposite, massive support and even boots on the ground from the get-go.
Should have a referendum, those who vote yes to join should be immediately conscripted and sent over. Those who vote no can stay at home and protect the nation.
Edit: Knew he wouldn't like that one, send someone else's kids is it? Coward.
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u/Karjavarastaja 23h ago edited 23h ago
Edit: Knew he wouldn't like that one, send someone else's kids is it? Coward.
Lol, I hadn't even seen your message yet.
Since I'm from Finland I am military trained and I see this war as Ukraine indirectly fighting for all of Europe. If called to serve I would go. You are welcome to have your head in the sand and pretend everything is fine until it suddenly and unexpectedly isn't.
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u/yadasellsavonmate 23h ago
Ok, fair enough someone else must have given the down vote.
Coward whoever you are, my idea is a good one. 🤣
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u/kdailyone 1d ago
Trump will never identify with Zelensky because he's everything he's not. For the same reasons, Trump fawns over Putin.
Likewise for Elon. I've always predicted he will eventually cut Starlink for Ukraine (which is critical their entire front-line and war effort) and last night service was limited.
These are actual evil individuals driven by spite.
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u/Magnus_Helgisson 23h ago
Idk, it’s easy to blame everything on Trump or Musk alone, but somewhere in the USA there is a person, or rather a group of people sleeping like babies as I type it, who are perfectly aware they could save a few lives a few hours ago by saying “fuck that fat ass, I’ll tell them, at least my conscience will be clean” like they do in their movies where they always save the world, but decided to comply to a criminal order instead. USA is not just traitors, they are accomplices to russia’s war crimes at this point.
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u/ScavHD Serbia 22h ago
The problem is deeper, that idiot didn't elect himself.
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u/Confident_Benefit_11 17h ago
Arguably, he did. Musk, putin, and pedo dumpy haven't engaged in "free and fair" elections for the last decade
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u/Vlad_TheInhalerr 19h ago
So, just to be clear, you are saying that without Musk Ukraine didn't have a chance?
So Musk is saving Ukraine by offering Starlink?
That's a different vibe then the negative rhetoric you are spreading lmao.
"This guy is evil because MAYBE HE MIGHT STOP STARLINK" is a stupid fucking argument to make as long as he is the one actually providing Starlink.
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u/_DrDigital_ Germany 17h ago
There's no "offering".
Poland is paying SpaceX for Starlink for Ukraine.
The only thing that is happening is that Musk is breaching the contract with Poland to preserve Russian bot farms since he needs them to keep himself in power.
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u/Confident_Benefit_11 17h ago
They're paying him for it, it's not a donation out of the goodness of his heart lmfao. His whole business plan is to sell it to NATO countries, who would fucking buy it after this?
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u/kdailyone 17h ago
Just to be clear Musk is evil because he's a Nazi cunt with a fragile ego. He has unhinged beliefs and is completely erratic.
Aside from that, he runs Starlink.
Ukraine's military has become highly reliant on Starlink, not because they want to, but because it's one of the only services that exists like that at the present. Everyone knows this. They'd much rather not use it, but circumstances have forced them.
Musk once cut it during a particular mission because he personally believed it might anger Putin too much (this really happened). He's also come out with rhetoric that has made people worried about whether he would randomly cut it or not. He's also explicitly said he won't cut it.
If he makes one of his personal insane decisions to cut it because spins wheel he hates Zelensky or whatever - then yes Ukrainians will directly die, and the situation will directly get worse.
He's exactly the kind of evil cunt who would cut them off out of petty spite or some inane fringe reason.
Does that make it more clear to you?
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u/Prudent-Title-9161 18h ago
Ukraine held its ground even without Musk, but his technology helps, and fewer people are dying.
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u/Vlad_TheInhalerr 17h ago
Sure, and that's the point.
You can claim Musk is evil all you want, but at the end of the day, despite people's dislike for him, he is still making sure Ukraine has it and is able to use it. Any 'musk is evil he might..." is not a reflectio of reality.
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u/Confident_Benefit_11 17h ago
Again, he's SELLING IT to them. That's why it exists, TO SELL to NATO countries. Arbitrarily turning it off is in direct violation of the defense contract with Ukraine AND means no other country would ever buy it lest the same thing happen to them.
Turning it off to please his pedo and Russian buddies so more Ukrainian civilians die while devaluing his own company is pretty fucking evil
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u/AcanthocephalaIll974 10h ago
Yes, Ukraine held out thanks to information; there is no point in disputing that.
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u/proton-testiq SK -> UK 1d ago
Came to Reddit to see if anyone noticed that Europe doesn't have anything whatsoever to replace the US intelligence with, and whether there is any discussion about European capabilities or anything like that.
Reddit: oooooh uuuuh oooh it looks like, maybe, theoretically, it looks like Ukraine didn't receive intel from the USA, oooh, uuuh, imagine that! drools.
Some stuff here is really level Internet Explorer. Running around like headless chcken.
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u/Orange-skittles 1d ago
Well According to Macron 2/3 of all intelligence Ukraine gets is from France and its network. So I find it unlikely that only the U.S could provide this information. Seeing how the E.U has Twister(2019) and Odin (2021). They should have some ability to detect launches at this point.
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u/MeRZerK 1d ago edited 23h ago
Odin's eye is projected to be fully operational only in 2030. No satellites for this system have been built or launched into orbit yet. Twister is an interceptor system project (not a detection one) and it will also only be fully operational between 2030-2040.
So for now, the EU cannot detect real-time missile launch plumes around the clock. It needs to rely on the U.S. for those capabilities.
Yes Macron said that now Ukraine gets 2/3 of all intelligence from France, but not all intelligence and intelligence capabilities are interchangeable. This kind of information is part of that 1/3
EDIT: grammar fixes
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u/DizzyReference3345 1d ago
So if Europe has capability why aren't they helping Ukraine with detection of launches? I understand that Trump wants to put pressure on Ukraine. Whats EU excuse?
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u/Ok_Sprinkles_8968 1d ago
Well I think only France has those satellites and not so many of them, so sure it’s hard to completely replace the US
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u/DizzyReference3345 1d ago edited 1d ago
Seems like EU doesn't have capability or its severely limited. Macron postured how France provides 66% of intelligence to Ukraine. While that still can be truth many on reddit joked how Ukraine don't need US intelligence anymore. Its infuriating how people treat this war. Its just jokes and memes for them like some sports match. And EU leaders mostly just posturing without doing anything. Still no discussions about what to do with financing Ukraine going into 2027. And no concrete plan how to end this war. Mostly keep doing same and hope for the best.
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u/Bucket_Of_Magic 19h ago
Its easier to blame the US for everyone else's shortcomings as if you can expect one country to always be at your beck and call to save the day. Trump has no obligation to help Ukraine.
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u/IAmOfficial 17h ago
The talking point just yesterday is that France supplies 2/3 of the intelligence to Ukraine and the US doesn’t really provide much at all. Weird that France wouldn’t warn Ukraine about this
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u/proton-testiq SK -> UK 17h ago
Clearly that's not the case, or French intelligence is not covering what the US previously did.
This is the same as when UA fought NATO in that exercise, NATO battalions didn't even register that they were killed, because they didn't even think about drones. And this arrogance was reported by UA soldiers all the time, when they were training at NATO facilities.
Same arrogance, same incompetence, for the love of God this is late 1930s all over again.
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u/Suspicious_Place1270 1d ago
you mean usa did not warn them
it's not like france has access to us inntelligence, or am i wrong?
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u/Anthyrion Hamburg (Germany) 1d ago
Yes, I think most of the intelligence data comes from US Intelligence Services. But since the Orange man has signed a deal with Russia for gasonline, I wouldn't be surprised if the contract has something written in it like that the US lowers their support for Ukraine.
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u/LookThisOneGuy 22h ago
Since this year, via kyivindependent:
France replaces US as main intelligence provider to Kyiv, Macron says
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u/Suspicious_Place1270 20h ago
why is it then called "allies"?
the article is just dodging calling names for whatever reason
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u/Numerous-Bowler-8677 United States of America 1d ago
Macron bragged thst Europe now supply 80% of Ukraine foreign intelligence… and yall still blame the US?
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u/pristineanvil Denmark 1d ago
Imagine reading the article and then knowing the answer to your question. I know it's hard it's probably a 100 words long. But if you put your heart into it I'm sure you can manage it.
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u/Mundane-Mud2509 1d ago
France have satellites that detect ballistic missile launches.
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u/Gold-Border30 1d ago
Their network is much smaller. If memory serves they are developing a joint system with Germany that is supposed to be up and running by 2030.
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u/jay_alfred_prufrock 1d ago
they are developing a joint system with Germany
France and Germany working together is always a great sign of things to come.
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u/Suspicious_Place1270 1d ago
of course, but it's not france withholding info, it is the usa
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u/Mundane-Mud2509 1d ago
Don't know, I'd assume that it launched in a gap in French coverage and US "forgot" to forward the message, but you never know.
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u/CertainMiddle2382 1d ago edited 1d ago
Europe lacks flexibility and granularity in scaling up violence.
I would (discreetly) encourage EU mercenary corporations that could provide support without full military involvement.
They could help support Ukraine, escort ships, be send to border crisis, provide dual purpose experience (deep water diving, cybersecurity), accidentally beat up GRU operatives etc
It would also provide good exit opportunities to regular servicemen, allow gaining experience in many critical domains, drones, intelligence, training, operations etc.
It would allow palatable cooperation with industry like energy, shipbuilding, communication, civil engineering etc etc
It would allow bypassing EU administrative landlocks on the use of force.
The EU could provide officious support and coordination, official framework (protection from liability, insurance, healthcare, retirement…)
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u/Hellstorm901 1d ago
The entire Russian army couldn’t defeat Ukraine but one man defeated the entirety of the US
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u/AnointedUltio 1d ago
You talking about Putin? Trump not supporting Ukraine doesn't have to be Putin's influence, it could very well be that he views helping allies as a waste of resources.
His policy is the complete isolation of the US and wreckage of American relationships after all
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u/Hellstorm901 1d ago
He began bashing Zelenskyy after Russia’s oil and diesel reserves began going down, it’s fairly certain the boss was calling in favours with Krasnov
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u/FlimzyMan 1d ago
Where is the european intel? Nothing we can supply? Stupid leaders been licking US ass for too long.
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u/Ragebaiterlmao Denmark 1d ago
Support for Ukraine is declining and will continue. People don't like to hear it, but it's reality.
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u/havok0159 Romania 19h ago
That's what tends to happen when support is expensive and governments do basically nothing to prevent the rampant propaganda coming from a country that has been waging an informational war (and cybernetic war among others) on us for many years.
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u/America-always-great 8h ago
Looks like Ukraine did its role and is now getting dropped. USA did all the intel and EU can’t pick up the widening gap.
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u/Orange-skittles 1d ago
Seems odd considering 2/3 of Ukrainian intelligence is coming from the French. Was SPIRALE and ODIN not designed specifically for this task? I know they say they will have full coverage in 4 years but surely they would have some coverage of Ukraine by now.
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u/raythenomad 1d ago
War costs resources. Russia is willing to burn its economy for the war. Is Europe willing to burn the same is the question.
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u/diamanthaende 1d ago
“Allies”, as in the US, as Europe does not have the capability of real time monitoring of ballistic missile launches yet, even if it is working on it:
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u/kmlynarski Poland 22h ago
Putin didn't pour so many resources into supporting Trump during the election just to see no benefit from it now. Ronald Reagan is turning in his grave...
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u/Zucchini__Objective 12h ago
Currently, the European Union countries lack this important anti-ballistic missile defence capability.
Until 2030, the US can more or less blind its European NATO partners by not informing them about missile launches by the russian aggressor army.
“By launching Jewel, France and Germany are fully assuming their leading role in building a European early warning capability, combining space, land, and command resources within a fully European and sovereign framework,” the French Ministry of the Armed Forces stated.
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u/yenneferismywaifu Peace Through Strength 1d ago
A Republican defeat in the midterm elections is the most important thing that can happen right now.
Isn't it wonderful when the fate of Europe depends on a random MAGAist in Massachusetts? Yes, just wonderful.
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u/IndependentMemory215 3h ago
Not sure what you think that will change.
Support for Ukraine won’t be materializing if that happens, and Trump will still be President.
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u/0xnld Kyiv (Ukraine) 1d ago
Kyiv has been under ballistic attacks all night with zero warning, only when the missiles are close enough to see on our own radars.
And it's been all mostly energy. Trump "ceasefire" working entirely as expected.