r/devils • u/SnooHamsters8997 • 2d ago
Sunny is Wrong
I’ve been hesitant to say this because Devils fans are touchy about criticizing the shiny new thing, but I think Sunny is flat out wrong about goaltending.
Sorokin, Vejmelka, and Ullmark. There’s a reason we struggle to score against these guys. I’m tired of looking to see who is in net against us, because I feel like I know how it’s going to go. Take tonight, I thought to myself “who is even on Ottawa? We should win” then I saw Ullmark and knew we were screwed!
We’re expecting an Allen/Daws tandem, and now Poirier, who wasn’t even in the plans until the last minute, to compete with that caliber of goaltending?
We’ve given up 18 goals in 5 games.
Sunny doesn’t want to invest in goaltending because it’s too “volatile” analytically, but to me this just looks like an afterthought approach to a position that clearly needs addressing. Just because a position is unpredictable doesn’t mean you can afford to neglect it. We can’t expect to outscore elite goaltending every night.
At the risk of all of your criticism, I don’t think our Goaltending is our only issue. I just think…”Just because the analytics (Sunny) say it isn’t important, doesn’t mean it isn’t”.
I’m tired of seeing who is in goal for the opposing team and knowing it’s going to be a struggle to win before the puck drops despite how bad the other team is “supposed” to be.
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u/BlueBeagle8 Anything Can Happen In Jersey 2d ago
I think Sunny is fundamentally right that goaltending is extremely volatile year-to-year, and usually a bad investment for that reason. Like, Ullmark sucked last year. Vejmelka was almost unplayable in his last few years in Arizona.
None of that helps us at all if Allen and Daws play badly.
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u/DokeyOakey New Jersey Devils 2d ago
Yeah, I live in Ontario and fans here were really disappointed in him last year; he struggled.
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u/Admirable-Sound5198 2d ago
Thing that baffles my mind is that other than last season with the hurricanes and 2023 with Vegas, pretty much every team that actually wins the cup has a legit bonafide #1 tendy…
No sunny isn’t fundamentally right. You either need to build a perfect team outside of goaltending like Vegas and Carolina did - so like 20 perfect fits - or get a legit tendy..
Top 5 goalies aren’t volatile at all- they’ve been the same pretty much every season except when Swayman sat out to start the season (like the another one of the top 5 guys is doing right now lol)…
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u/BlueBeagle8 Anything Can Happen In Jersey 2d ago
I don't agree. If you look at the last decade of hockey, you have four Cups from Vasilevsky (elite) and Bobrovsky (elite in their Cup runs, but also inconsistent -- remember, he wasn't even starting at the beginning of their first playoff run.)
The rest of the winners -- Bussi, Hill, Kuemper, Binnington, Holtby, Murray -- are just guys. Capable of really great play, but also capable of sucking to the point that every one of them lost their job at times (except Bussi, but give it a few months.)
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u/DoxxingShillDownvote 2d ago
Our problem isn’t goaltending. Our offense is anemic and ineffective. Tons of crap shots and no conversion.
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u/nsfate18 #21 - Kyle Palmieri 2d ago
Saying our problem isn't goaltending is the most ridiculous thing. Our problem is absolutely goaltending (along with shit offense and transition). In our 3 losses, we gave up 4, 5, and 6 goals. There is no one here that genuinely believes Daws Allens is a playoff or cup tandem you want to have. We are just clenching our asses that these guys can give us average goaltending to sneak us into the playoffs. Sunny can't just make a massive goaltending change on whim, so I'll give him another year or so to figure that out
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u/DoxxingShillDownvote 2d ago
There is also no one here who believes our offense is playoff worthy. Maybe we just suck?
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u/nsfate18 #21 - Kyle Palmieri 2d ago
We've at least seen our offense be playoff worthy with Ruff so I disagree with you
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u/SnooHamsters8997 2d ago
I agree, goaltending is not our only issue. I just find myself every night looking to see the goalie we are playing against and go “shit, this is going to be a battle!”
I don’t want to be a Helly guy, I’m just saying, I think I’d feel differently if Brodeur was in the net. Obviously not literally, but the sentiment rings true
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u/xoBonesxo Best NHL logo 2d ago
Even if Brodeur was in net, he wouldn’t get saved either , this team will leave him out to dry. Goalies can have a good game like Daws did today, but it’s only a matter of time if you keep letting a team get opportunities
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u/Ok-Valuable-2651 2d ago
The question to ask is, "Who is your suggestion to acquire?"
Nobody denies having a proper #1 goalie you can trot out for 50 games is something that you don't want to have. The problem is there are very very few of them in the league, making it almost impossible to acquire one.
The only #1 available is Hellybuck, and given what it would take to acquire him, the situation around him in general, and that he's on an expensive contract that has a high liklihood of souring quickly thanks to his age, there's wayyy too many risks with him.
Fitz tried to swing for Markstrom, and we all saw what happened with that.
Goaltending at the end of the day is pretty voodoo outside of said #1s and Sunny's take on it is pretty clearly, 'hey, we might have bad goaltending either way, at least this way it's cheap and easy to move on from if I need to.'
We still have Rittich in the minors and Porier to try as well if Daws shows he cannot handle the NHL level.
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u/SnooHamsters8997 2d ago
Thank you for a realistic response that is about conversation. You’re right, I don’t have a solution. Helly is a crazy price. But I fear Sunny’s approach is a generalization that makes getting creative with the position a no go.
Helly is too much. We know this. But there isn’t any voodoo magic he could do to get us somebody worthwhile via trade that makes sense? I’ll give you I’m not knowledgeable enough about every goalies contract situation, but is Helly the only option?
I just get the impression that he thinks it isn’t worth it, so he doesn’t explore it. That’s what I think is wrong
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u/VindictiveRakk #1 - Erika Wachter 2d ago
I don't think his actual approach is a generalization, I imagine he has evaluated all the actual options on a case-by-case basis and his statement is a generalization of that analysis.
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u/Ok-Valuable-2651 2d ago
Well, that would depend on what you define as acceptable.
E.g, would you consider Allen acceptable? I would personally say yes. He's not going to be amazing or anything, you can't play him too much, but you can feel pretty confident that most game he goes out he'll give you a chance to win.
If you're looking for a true, high caliber #1, then yes, only Helly is truly available. I highly doubt any team with one is even hearing you out unless you have an insane offer.
If the answer is ideally a Jake Allen+, well, thats where the voodoo lies. Cause then, may I interest you in our old friend Markstrom? These goalies are almost always going to be kinda random, some insane days, some bad ones, they'll let in a stinker but otherwise be a stone wall, etc... It's impossible to have almost always consistently good goaltending unless you have one of the true #1s.
So at that point, what's the difference between goalies if you dont have a top-tier caliber goalie? Sure, there might be more bad games, but you'll also find some good games. Sunny's willing to roll the dice, provided he has some slightly weighted dice. He's given himself many options foward, lots of dice to roll, and the flexibility needed to make a swing if someone does become available. I really don't see a better option, especially when you consider things like how the Canes won a cup with an untested rookie.
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u/crazyFlyingChicken New Jersey Devils 2d ago
Allen is 0.4 goals above expected, he’s been entirely average and that’s fine. Daws had the best game of the year so far, he made a ton of high leverage saves and the goals he did “give” up were off two horrific breakdowns and a tip directly in the slot. Goaltending can always be better in a vacuum, but 1) we have no realistic way to improve it right now and 2) it’s not even close to our biggest issue right now
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u/cabutler03 #30 - Martin Brodeur 2d ago
I think it's a combination of multiple factors. The defense falls asleep more often than not and the offense just isn't there.
Of course, it doesn't help that we as a fanbase have an insanely high expectation for the goaltender, given that this team had arguably the best goalie the game ever had.
But something has to change. I don't want to hear sad and depressed Chico on the radio anymore.
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u/grizzwintergreenlc #63 2d ago
Last 5 years watched Brandon Bussi, Bobrovsky 2x, Adin Hill, and Darcy Kuemper win cups. Sunny is 1000% right. Especially in a retool year.
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u/Admirable-Sound5198 2d ago
Do the 20 years before that… Matt Murray was crazy good those cup runs so my point still stands lol. Bob was crazy good in all 3 of their cup runs… especially the first 2
So basically you either need to build the 2022 avalanche or have a solid, reliable tendy back there….
Sunny’s made his choice but don’t act like it’s “1000% right”…. Your team in particular is proof that sunny isnt 1000% right 😂
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u/DevilJacket2000 #30 - Martin Brodeur 2d ago
We can’t score goals. Goaltending was good enough today. That’s about as good as you can hope for. But they can’t score.
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u/Villebilly #27 - Scott Niedermayer 2d ago
Only five teams have scored fewer goals this season. It’s time for these boys to put up or shut up.
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u/ModernMandalorian 2d ago
The irony that goaltending would not be an investment on Martin Brodeur's old club is mind boggling.
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u/Admirable-Sound5198 2d ago
Hahaha I was just going to type this… like if there’s one team where you’d think they’d see the benefit of investing in goaltending and goaltending development- it’s right here!!!
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u/jetsetter2828 2d ago
Goal tending is average and not the problem... Here are the glaring problems.
- Spotty defense
- Spotty offense (with new players or old players)
- This team struggles with connecting passing
- Passing 6x or just too many times
- Drop back passes
- I have seen this at least 3 times every game... Hughes enters on the right side and his to line mates follow behind him or close to him leaving him zero room to pass
This teams offense should be red hot and it's a turd
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u/Successful_Grand7538 2d ago
We have subpar goaltending and a coach who is clueless on how to generate offense. This is the recipe for a bad time.
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u/blade430 Fire Keefe 2d ago
We struggle to score against those guys because our o zone scheme totally blows. We cannot score 5v5. We were dead last in 5v5 offense in 2025, and it’s trending in that direction for 2026.
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u/trevdiddy 2d ago
Goal tending has been bad for years and you're not going to have a striving confident offense when you can't trust your goaltender goal tending is the backbone man always has been... When they fired ruff goaltending was particularly the problem, but they still fired him.. bad gold tending affects the offense been watching these fuckers for years
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u/MirageXXVII 2d ago
Amen to this, I made a similar post right after the loss last night and all of the Daws shills came out in droves. This whole “ITS NEVER THE GOALIE” mentality is draining.
Put simply, is it always on the goalie? No absolutely not, but it’s never NOT THE GOALIE. Last night for example there were 2 GAs that Daws clearly could’ve saved if he had any semblance of greatness about him. This guy on the Sens was sensational last night, multiple saves that a GREAT GOALIE makes to bail out his defense when they make mistakes.
Everyone is so quick to blame the offense, look at the home opener, look at last night, hell look at all of the games so far this season, the Devils are doing a great job and often times are out shooting their opponents, the flyers game was what 40+ shots on net, and the Flyers goalie was INSANELY GOOD, bailing his team out albeit for an OT loss.
Do I think the offense needs a shake up, yes of course, some of the lines don’t gel well right now, and does the defense need some help, yes specifically Sieg who is fucking horrible, and occasionally Pesce who seems to be lost on the ice. Luke isn’t a miracle worker either, he turns over the puck a lot, but transitions well when he doesn’t have his head up his ass.
Overall I agree though, Sunny has to bite the bullet, the tandem goalie situation with both of these guys being average at best, Daws is an AHL goalie though nobody can change my mind on that, isn’t going to work. We need a force in that position, when the defense sees they have someone incredibly reliable to back them up they will perform better overall. Nobody likes to bust their ass day in and day out knowing it doesn’t matter when they make one little mistake or aren’t 100% perfect which is what everyone seems to think the defense should be. Although YES, it isn’t one little mistake from those guys, but it’s not EVERY TIME the opposition crosses the blue line.
Perfect example last night, third period devils are roaring, the Sens get ONE SHOT after the devils took idk 11 or so, and it’s a goal. You can’t make that shit up.
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u/SnooHamsters8997 2d ago
I really like what you said. Some people on this sub love to bring up so many things. I clearly stated I don’t think Goalies are our only problem. I’m simply voicing my opinion that I think Sunny is wrong with his lack of attention to the Goalie position. I also don’t have a solution to fix it. That’s not my job. I’m the fan. I just wanted to point out MY OPINION that I think he is wrong
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u/rexmorgany 2d ago
It’s not the goaltending.
Canes won the Cup with who exactly last year? Their #1 took them most of the way, but he was replaced in the playoffs and then they let him walk in the offseason.
Ullmark was part of the goalie tandem when the B’s set the regular season points record…and then promptly got knocked out first round that postseason. Bruins opted to keep the other starter.
Sorokin is excellent but he’s never stolen a playoff series.
Vegas won a Cup with who? And he’s where now?
This Devils team is a deep case study in something or other. It’s gonna take a lot of brains and, more importantly, balls to reset it. We as fans only see so much. It’s unbelievably frustrating to watch a team with so much skill and speed simply not be able to convert on their chances.
I continue to trust that the guy that was a key part in taking a Presidents Trophy winning Panthers team, before deconstructing it and rebuilding it into a 2x winning Cup champion, is the best person to assemble the team to figure out this perennial underachiever. Goaltending is the least of my concerns.
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u/Admirable-Sound5198 2d ago
lol I like how you cherry pick the two cups where the teams didn’t have a legit number one goalie and ignore that literally every other team since like, 2010 that had a bonafide number one tendy.
Good luck trying to build 2023 Vegas or 2026 Carolina…. Ya’ll could just go back to your roots though and get a tendy though… it’s pretty important lol
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u/CorporalDingleberry #27 - Scott Niedermayer 2d ago
I don't disagree with Sunny.
There's not a lot available, and I'm hesitant on Hellebucyk given his age and what it would cost to get him (not to mention I have a feeling he'd get off to a slow start out the gate since he missed all of training camp).
However, I'm all for a coaching change. Keefe has been coach for 2 years and minus the hot start 2 years ago an the 8 game winning streak beginning of last year, the Devils have been just mediocre. Something needs to be addressed by giving up the first goal every game. Hard to win consistently when you're always playing from behind to start.
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u/TheCampanile 2d ago
Daws has now played 60 NHL games in his career and he’s never once looked NHL level. Devils fans have a complete inability to hold this guy accountable for anything at all. Daws is awful.
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u/Fine_Discipline_2747 2d ago
I think they were hoping Daws was really going to find it and be the guy. I’d trade for Helly. We aren’t good enough to have questionable goaltending.
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u/Ibatheincornflakes 2d ago
Who would you trade for him? How many assets would you give up?
Personally, I wouldn't. Guy can't play in the playoffs, and I can't think of anything worse than giving up a lot of assets for him, and then getting buried in the playoffs by Carolina after he pulls yet another Hellechoke.
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u/Fine_Discipline_2747 2d ago
Idk I think after he won the Olympics, maybe he’s over his choking in big games. Idk who we would give up or what they are asking for. Seems like they wanted more than anyone wanted to give from the start of the saga. I’d assume it starts with Mercer, Daws or Porier, picks, etc.
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u/Ibatheincornflakes 2d ago
You're going to risk that, based on one game? I'm looking at his season in total, last season, and it was a down year for him. At his age, you can't say he'll definitely bounce back, and with his history - even in years where he was crushing it in the regular season - you can't say he'll be good in the playoffs.
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u/jetsetter2828 2d ago
Of the 3 goals how many are his fault. If you say more than one you're the problem.
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u/roothockey #30 - Martin Brodeur 2d ago
Ullmark had an .891 save% and -5.8 GSAA last year. Vejmelka had an .897% and 0.9 GSAA last year (and a peak of 6.1 GSAA the year before). Hellyebuck in his two recent vezina seasons posted a .925 save% in the regular season and then proceeded to have an .870 save% in the playoffs with a combined -17 GSAA in 18 games. That's the type of volatility he's talking about. Elite goalies are awesome, but we're not one goalie away from cup contention.
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u/YourMomSloppySeconds 2d ago
lol
No team with a good goalie says “let’s get rid of him and replace him with a backup and two AHL goalies” because anything can happen.
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u/roothockey #30 - Martin Brodeur 2d ago
Well we didn’t have a good goalie so I’m not sure what your point is
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u/resistible #3 - Ken Daneyko 2d ago
That first goal wasn't on Daws in ANY way. Complete defensive breakdown. I wonder if you've even been watching the games or if you just see the box score and assume goaltending is the problem.