r/canada • u/byourpowerscombined Alberta • 11h ago
Alberta Three former Alberta premiers unite to urge voters to say 'no' to referendum immigration questions | CBC News
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/former-alberta-premiers-unite-immigration-questions-9.7379734•
u/Hotter_Noodle 11h ago
This is gonna fuck some people up because there’s people out there that love the PCs but hate the one time they tried an NDP government (4 years out of 40 years of conservative governments) and they’re agreeing with each other.
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u/hardy_83 9h ago edited 8h ago
I always laugh at voters in provinces like Ontario and Alberta that complain about how bad the NDP are/were when they've ruled a tiny fraction of the provinces life compared to the conservatives or liberals. Yet so many people just keep flip flop voting red or blue, or simply don't think and vote a colour they are "loyal" to.
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u/slashthepowder 8h ago
It drives me nuts in Saskatchewan when people trash the NDP or say it’s all their fault. They haven’t been in power for 19 years.
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u/BroadStreetPump 3h ago
The Sask Party's campaign platform in 2024 was basically just "the NDP closed rural schools and hospitals." That was back in the 1990's. After the mismanagement of the Devine gov't.
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u/infectingbrain Alberta 8h ago
it's also fairly eye opening to people here when I explain to them that just because they have a similar name, the Alberta NDP and Federal NDP parties are very different parties. ANDP is far more conservative and more akin to many of their actual politics, but they won't even consider them because orange party bad.
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u/GameDoesntStop 5h ago
I mean, since at least 1990, Alberta's finances have been great... apart from the 4 years of NDP rule and the 2 years that immediately followed (aka the pandemic).
You can argue that that was just bad luck on the NDP's part, with an oil pullback, but at the end of the day, the province has done well fiscally, except during NDP rule.
It's perfectly logical that people would see that and think "well electing them sure was a mistake"... no "colour loyalty" needed.
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u/FunRip7570 Alberta 4h ago
Alberta ran deficits under the PCs long before the NDP took office. The NDP also inherited the 2014 oil-price crash. Now the UCP’s projected $9.4 billion deficit has turned into a $2 billion surplus largely because the war with Iran drove up oil prices and royalties. That’s an $11.4 billion swing, mostly due to circumstances outside the government’s control. Funny how oil prices matter when judging one government but apparently not another.
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u/GameDoesntStop 4h ago
They ran a few deficits, but mostly surpluses and the deficits were small.
When the NDP took power, the deficits turned large fast.
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u/FunRip7570 Alberta 3h ago
And those deficits grew because oil prices collapsed. Alberta’s revenue fell by $7 billion in 2015-16 alone, and the province recorded a $6.4 billion deficit. That’s the difference between correlation and causation. The PCs also ran deficits for six of the seven years before the NDP took office, including $3.1 billion in 2012-13. Now the UCP’s fiscal fortunes have swung dramatically with higher oil prices. Alberta’s dependence on volatile oil revenue is the consistent problem, not one party’s four years in office.
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u/manofthenorth31 10h ago
These are the questions related to immigration that will be on ballot in case anyone was wondering.
1
“Do you support the Government of Alberta taking increased control over immigration for the purposes of decreasing immigration to more sustainable levels, prioritizing economic migration and giving Albertans first priority on new employment opportunities?” 
2
“Do you support the Government of Alberta introducing a law mandating that only Canadian citizens, permanent residents and individuals with an Alberta-approved immigration status will be eligible for provincially-funded programs, such as health care, education and other social services?” 
3
“Assuming that all Canadian citizens and permanent residents continue to qualify for social support programs as they do now, do you support the Government of Alberta introducing a law requiring all individuals with a non-permanent legal immigration status to reside in Alberta for at least 12 months before qualifying for any provincially-funded social support programs?” 
4
“Assuming that all Canadian citizens and permanent residents continue to qualify for public health care and education as they do now, do you support the Government of Alberta charging a reasonable fee or premium to individuals with a non-permanent immigration status living in Alberta for their and their family’s use of the health care and education systems?” 
5
“Do you support the Government of Alberta introducing a law requiring individuals to provide proof of citizenship, such as a passport, birth certificate or citizenship card, to vote in an Alberta provincial election?”
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u/Radical_Redditor 7h ago
Wait, is this genuinely the entirety of what the referendum is about? Or is this in addition to the idea of having a referendum for leaving Canada?
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u/Terafir 5h ago edited 5h ago
This is only half the questions, the ones related directly to immigration. They're all on the same ballot. The other questions are:
Do you support the Government of Alberta working with the governments of other willing provinces to amend the Canadian Constitution to have provincial governments, and not the federal government, select the justices appointed to provincial King’s Bench and Appeal courts?
Do you support the Government of Alberta working with the governments of other willing provinces to amend the Canadian Constitution to abolish the unelected federal Senate?
Do you support the Government of Alberta working with the governments of other willing provinces to amend the Canadian Constitution to allow provinces to opt out of federal programs that intrude on provincial jurisdiction such as health care, education, and social services, without a province losing any of the associated federal funding for use in its social programs?
Do you support the Government of Alberta working with the governments of other willing provinces to amend the Canadian Constitution to better protect provincial rights from federal interference by giving a province’s laws dealing with provincial or shared areas of constitutional jurisdiction priority over federal laws when the province’s laws and federal laws conflict?
Should Alberta remain a province of Canada, or should the Government of Alberta commence the legal process required under the Canadian Constitution to hold a binding provincial referendum on whether or not Alberta should separate from Canada?
Option 1: Alberta should remain a province of Canada.
Option 2: The Government of Alberta should commence the legal process required under the Canadian Constitution to hold a binding provincial referendum on whether or not Alberta should separate from Canada.
Frankly, most of them are terrible ideas or are just political pandering to her base.
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u/Ret0x 5h ago
Question 5 has an "or" in it. What are the possible answers on the ballot? It can't be a Yes/No answer, can it?
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u/Terafir 5h ago
Theoretically, the separation question will have the following answer clarification:
Option 1: Alberta should remain a province of Canada.
Option 2: The Government of Alberta should commence the legal process required under the Canadian Constitution to hold a binding provincial referendum on whether or not Alberta should separate from Canada.
Or at least, that's how it showed on the booklet, and on the Elections Alberta webpage I'm copying them from. The rest of the questions are Yes/No. I've added that in to my comment, as you're right, it is confusing without context. Still, if you have to vote, I'd memorize the answer just in case.
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u/Radical_Redditor 5h ago
Okay, gotcha. Because if it was only those 5 then clearly I was misinformed about the whole subject matter, and would completely change my view on it.
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u/Terafir 5h ago
Frankly, this is kind of why a lot of people here in Calgary hate it. If it was effectively just an official opinion poll on what sort of stuff the AB government should push back on, like Immigration, then they'd probably have a lot more support. Instead, all the questions have the same flavor of "We know we've been the government for all but a single election in the last 55 years, but we need more power!" Reminds me of the Republican politicians down south who keep blaming the Democrats for everything even though they control the House, Senate, President, and Supreme Court.
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u/QseanRay 10h ago
Who would vote no for any of these?
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u/Dirtsniffee Alberta 10h ago edited 9h ago
What's wrong with charging a fee for education and health if they are non-permanent residents? Lots of places do this.
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u/Pvt_Hudson_ Alberta 2h ago
The "Alberta approved immigration status" thing is loaded as fuuuuuuuck.
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u/byourpowerscombined Alberta 9h ago
They already pay taxes like the rest of us.
If we’re worried about money, maybe we shouldn’t be cutting oil royalties?
https://financialpost.com/commodities/energy/oil-gas/alberta-changing-oil-royalty-regime
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u/Dirtsniffee Alberta 9h ago
Lol at paying taxes like the rest of us
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u/byourpowerscombined Alberta 9h ago
Yes? Did you not know that?
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u/Dirtsniffee Alberta 9h ago
I'm not about to explain the difference between a citizen/ permanent resident and a temporary resident to you
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u/byourpowerscombined Alberta 9h ago
If you are a resident in Canada, under any status, you pay taxes. I guess you really did not know that.
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u/Dirtsniffee Alberta 8h ago
Cool story bro
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u/TwoCockyforBukkake 8h ago
"la la la! I can't hear you proving me wrong!"
That's you.
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u/Stratoveritas2 8h ago
Typically takes three years or longer of living in Canada to be able to apply and obtain permanent residency status. In that time, landed immigrants who live and work here still pay taxes like the rest of us.
What you’re arguing is to deny them the same services which they also pay into.•
u/Dirtsniffee Alberta 8h ago
they aren't being denied a service. they should pay those fees before they even land here. no guarantee that they ever become permanent residents, may as well make them collectively pay for services they use. Heck, if they become permanent residents I'd even consider a tax credit for the amount they pay.
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u/Pvt_Hudson_ Alberta 2h ago
And when this policy starts to deter skilled foreign labor from moving to Alberta, what then?
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u/DarkLF 7h ago
the miniscule taxes they MIGHT pay dont do anything to cover the amount of education or healthcare they use.
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u/byourpowerscombined Alberta 7h ago
They pay the same taxes as the rest of us.
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u/DarkLF 7h ago
A non-permanent resident (NPR) in Canada is a person from another country who has a usual place of residence in Canada and holds a work permit, a study permit, or has claimed refugee status (asylum claimant).
Work Permit - average salary of 30-50K - BARELY paying taxes i.e not enough to cover education costs or healthcare
Study Permit - Not paying any taxes
Refugee Status - Not paying any taxes
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u/byourpowerscombined Alberta 7h ago
Study permits and refugee status pay taxes if they earn a salary.
So your real complaint is that immigrants are poor?
FYI temporary workers and international students make up 1% of health spending. So you want to take away peoples healthcare for no benefit?
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u/DarkLF 7h ago
great, you recognize the big "IF" there. most likely they are making below the threshold to pay any taxes if they are working part time at minimum wage, thus theyre not contributing at all.
they're not citizens. why should they get access to something they've never contributed to. this isnt a class or race thing. you literally have to get private insurance if you move to taiwan to get healthcare because you havent contributed. im quite happy to vote yes on these
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u/byourpowerscombined Alberta 7h ago
Oh so you just think poor people shouldn’t get healthcare.
If we make them pay separately, surely you would be comfortable in not making them pay any taxes.
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u/Pvt_Hudson_ Alberta 2h ago
I voted no for all of them.
They are racist dog whistle questions so the UCP can blame their innumerable past and future fuckups on immigrants.
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u/Upnorth100 8h ago
5 yes from me
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u/Terafir 8h ago
Nah, it looks fine on the surface, but when you think about it, it's dumb. A driver's license wouldn't count anymore, nor would any other provincial license. Most Albertans don't have an ID card, 30% of them don't have a passport, and for women, if they get married, would have to get their birth certificates updated with their new name. Apparently the AB government doesn't trust it's own system.
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8h ago edited 8h ago
[deleted]
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u/Terafir 8h ago
What are you talking about? You can't vote if you're not a citizen.
Additionally, right now you need to bring either 1) A piece of photo ID, 2) Two pieces of non-photo ID, or 3) Have someone who actually works at the polling station personally verify you. Not to mention you still have to be registered on the voter rolls, which requires a ton more paperwork and tracking.
Whoever told you that non-citizens can vote lied to you.
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u/MZillacraft3000 Alberta 10h ago
It's very interesting that Smith somehow managed to bring all former premiers together.
This is truly speaking volumes how much of a bad job that she has done of being premier of Alberta.
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u/The_Bald_Skald 10h ago
Think of how bitter the campaigns were that led up to the NDP win in 2015. Now think of how all the people involved, plus a couple of PC Premiers prior, are now working together.
You know you're a pack of a-holes when you unite pretty much everyone against you.
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u/TheLordJames Alberta 10h ago
This is how you tell the UCP Government has gone way off the rails.
Notley and Kenney also did a joint statement on something earlier this week.
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u/primitives403 9h ago
Kenney would put out a joint statement with satan if it would give him another 5 minutes of relevance. He speaks for no one but the next person who will give him a place to fit in
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u/jerbearman10101 5h ago
I think no to the nine campaign undermines its own credibility by focusing on the rest of the questions instead of simply just staying in Canada. Some of these questions are about real issues that people care about and it just seems like the no to the nine completely dismisses that and says “vote no because UCP bad”. Their website says they want no on them because even though they don’t talk about separation, they undermine the federation by asking about constitutional changes. That is complete bullshit — a referendum on constitutional changes is literally the practice of democracy in and of itself.
The last question is the important one.
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u/YouProfessional3196 10h ago
I actually disagree. While I think the separatism thing should be defeated hands down. If you want to be one of those stick it to Ottawa voters you are better served by voting yes on the immigration questions. These politicians are already trying to make it so this referndum can be spun has Canadians want more immigration. Actually no, we don't!
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u/Levorotatory 10h ago
Except that the last time the UCP tried to meddle in immigration it was to say "Alberta is calling".
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u/YouProfessional3196 10h ago
Oh, I don't disagree. But the question is:
"Do you support the Government of Alberta taking increased control over immigration for the purposes of decreasing immigration to more sustainable levels, prioritizing economic migration and giving Albertans first priority on new employment opportunities?"
I mean if you are looking to send a message to politicians and are angry about immigration (which is all deserved on the Liberals part) this is a pretty good question to vote yes to. Now if the UCP doesn't do what they say (quite probable) than they can get voted out.
But overall as part of a protest vote against the government this a great question to stick it to the establishment on. Why is the NDP saying we shouldn't be prioritizing Canadians the first opportunity for jobs? Like what?
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u/TheTechHorde 9h ago
How is this sending a message if the actions these questions are proposing don’t make any sense?
For example, how does a province have any sort of control over immigration if we have freedom of movement across the country?
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u/YouProfessional3196 9h ago edited 9h ago
I mean the federal government has specific immigration agreements with Quebec that other provinces don't get that Alberta may want to emulate. Including with having full authority to select which economic and family-class immigrants it wants.
For the record I don't agree with provinces having any authority on immigration. However it was only a matter of time other provinces ask for it since the precedent has been set. Also I can see why people have no trust in the federal Liberals to manage immigration properly.
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