r/belgium • u/Baka_Jaba • 2d ago
😡Rant Renting is getting impossible
It has been two months.
Two months of sleeping on the couch.
My ex and I from 10 years ago decided to part ways.
She's buying my share of the house.
But I can't leave, no one wants to rent to a nominated federal employee winning 1500€/month on sick leave, even with a safety pillow.
The "3x the rent should be >= a month salary" rule is putting more and more stress on low income population. The only thing I could afford is a student kot where I can't put my address on.
I'll guess I have no others choice left but to produce fake income papers...
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u/Klash_kop 2d ago
With that income you should qualify for social housing
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u/Poesvliegtuig Belgium 2d ago
Where the waitlists vary from 7 to 15 years depending on which area you apply for
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u/Klash_kop 2d ago
Depends indeed, a friend of mine got his in less than a year (he has a small kid which apparently increases your priority). This was 2 years ago.
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u/Poesvliegtuig Belgium 2d ago
In certain cases you have 'points' to give you higher priority: children, your house is declared unliveable by inspection or burns down etc.
I doubt sleeping on your ex's couch gives you many points though so I assume OP would end up near the bottom of the list of applicants
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u/ProportionalPage 2d ago
OP, ask your ex if she would be up for a baby. That will help finding social housing.
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u/New-Maize-2226 1d ago
This actually wildly depends on your situation, social housing with only one bedroom can sometimes be found fairly fast, since it's mostly people with families / bigger "needs" that apply to them.
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u/Tough_Brain7982 2d ago
There’s a waiting list of 20 years in most big cities. Qualified or not, there’s no housing.
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u/Ok_WhereWereWe 2d ago
Just to add, after 4 years on the waiting list you can apply for a 'huurpremie'. 4 years might sound long but you should sign up just to be safe.
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u/Party-Doughnut-4051 2d ago
I've never understood the rule that says rent should be 1/3 of your salary. My salary is €1750, so I should rent appartments of €580 or less? What country are those in?
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u/Anakil_brusbora 2d ago
The rule was from 40+ years ago when there was such low price renting possible. ^^
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u/Coldasice_1982 2d ago
When I was 22, my net income was 1200 and rent for an 80square meter app was 600 location was Affligem.. I am 44 now.. we had it easy and cheap back then..
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u/Dennis-Black-Midget Brussels 2d ago
Back than it was 1/10th. My parents are absolutely shocked when i tell them 1/3 normally goes to rent.
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u/cannotfoolowls 2d ago
What country are those in?
Limburg, West-Flanders, probably a lot of Wallonia. There's a reason so many people commute far to work.
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u/JPV_____ West-Vlaanderen 2d ago
West Vlaanderen.
https://www.zimmo.be/nl/ieper-8900/te-huur/appartement/LSBAK . Mooi gelegen. Klein, maar centraal en niet te ver van station.
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u/Party-Doughnut-4051 2d ago
I live in Bruxelles sadly. The only places in that price range are student homes. I pay €900 a month for a small appartment and I consider myself lucky...
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u/Dennis-Black-Midget Brussels 2d ago
In Brussels you are right to consider yourself lucky. But Brussels also is the most expensive place to live in Belgium. (Kinda, of course you have Sint Maartens Latem and Knokke). I am also looking to move out of Brussels because of this.
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u/JPV_____ West-Vlaanderen 2d ago
Brussels isn't the only place in Belgium. I live in Ypres, work in Brussels. There's a good reason why I don't live in Brussels...
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u/Thecatstoppedateboli 2d ago
Damm about 2 hours by train one way. Isn't that a bit crazy?
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u/JPV_____ West-Vlaanderen 2d ago
No, I have a full day off per week as sort of compensation
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u/Thecatstoppedateboli 2d ago
Ah that is quite nice. Good thing that the train connection is mostly without transferring trains. That is the most problematic for my connection to Ronse
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u/ILoveBigCoffeeCups 2d ago
If your ex is buying your share of the house. Is it that small you can’t find a small appartment?
I mean you should bega some money from that no?
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u/Baka_Jaba 2d ago
I'm getting 36k for it, she payed most of the work done in the house.
I can borrow around 22k from the bank on 25 years.
It sucks.
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u/ILoveBigCoffeeCups 2d ago
How small was your share of the house when you only get 36 k for it? The work in the house should not matter. I hope you’re not getting fleeced
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u/Baka_Jaba 2d ago
50/50, but she made me sign an updated acknowledgment of debt after every work done in the house.
She works with a notary, so yeah, I've been fleeced a bit.
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u/ProportionalPage 2d ago edited 2d ago
You buy a hypothetical apartment together for 220k, so each of you owns 110k of it.
Then renovation work is done on the apartment for 50k, paid by one person alone. Depending on the work, this raises the apartment's value by roughly 30-50k. Let's say the apartment is now worth 270k, meaning each of you owns 135k.
The only reasonable agreement at that point is that the 50k she spent on the renovations stays hers. In other words: you can leave the renovations out of the calculation entirely, because she already benefits from them. The value of her half of the apartment went up. Everything else should simply be split 50/50, which means you should get 110k. It makes no sense to deduct her renovation costs from your share on top of that. If you did, you would effectively be the one paying for her renovations.
And to be clear: if the apartment were truly owned 50/50, then deducting the 50k from your half means she is taking 75k that should be yours.
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u/MagicNo14 2d ago
He never said that the 50k was being taken from his half. I'm assuming she did it fair and square like in the example you gave.
But have you considered that the bulk of the worth is probably still owed in bank debt? If his half is worth 110, but he still has a loan open of 75k then he'd only get 35k.
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u/RustyMR2 2d ago
There are multiple ways to calculate this. And they are way more complicated than what you tell here.
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u/MagicNo14 2d ago
You are right of course. All I'm saying is that without all those details there is no way of knowing whether or or not he is being fleeced. Lots of people jumping to conclusions.
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u/ILoveBigCoffeeCups 2d ago
That is the most stupid thing I ever heard. Your share in the original worth of the house should remain what it was and not go lower because she made investments.
You’re actually getting fleeced35
u/RustyMR2 2d ago
Why? I did a similar thing with my (now ex) girlfriend. I paid way more for the house (like 90%) and then paid for most of the renovations. She was totally fine with it and both of us found it a pretty normal thing to do.
If you buy a 300k house, 150k each and she pays 50k in renovations. Assume the house is now worth 350k she should get 200k and you 150, that is only fair.
Any decent notary will tell you the dangers of renovations or uneven splits when buying a house and provide you the documents to make it more even when you split up.
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u/really-just-dont 1d ago
Yes but first you still have to pay the mortgage back to the bank which will be most of the amount. Cause a new loan always has to be taken out after a sale. So that leaves only the difference and of that amount he is entitled to half (50/50). So 36k is a very nice amount.
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u/Kokosnik 2d ago
So she deducted from your part every work she paid for?
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u/Baka_Jaba 2d ago
yes, its a common practice apparently? Since the house actual price estimation is linked to those
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u/midnightsnipe 2d ago
Yes and no.
You and I both know that if you pay 30k for a new kitchen that the value of your house doesn't increase by 30k.
First of all, you removed the old kitchen, then there's the VAT (BTW in Dutch) and normal depreciation. So 70% of the renovation is already generous, especially if it's over the course of a year.
I'd say, the amount you actually helped pay off is your share, she can get the appreciation off the money as a sort of trade off.
At the moment, you're absolutely getting the short end of the stick mate. It's probably legal, but it's not moral to say the least.
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u/Baka_Jaba 2d ago
shall I add that I ordered an expert to gage the house, she wasn't happy with the price and sent her boss to do it while I was away...
She fucked my mental health so bad that I'm just happy to see an ending to it tbf.
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u/ProportionalPage 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you are only getting 35k from a 220k apartment that you owned 50/50 she is stealing over 75k from you. The only reason to deduct the investments she made to that apartment, are if you start counting from the actual value of the apartment. That means getting 3 independent estimations of the house value, then deducting her renovation costs (if you are friendly) and then splitting it in 2. It makes 0 sense to deduct the renovation costs if you start at the purchase value instead of the actual value of the apartment.
That means if the apartment today is worth 400k and she made 50k of renovations in it, you should be getting 175k (half of 350k0. And if the apartment is only worth 250k you should still be getting 110k instead of 100k because you don't benefit from the renovations she decided to do: they benefit her, not you. Get a lawyer, this makes 0 sense.
In no sensible scenario you should be getting 36k. And with 110k-175k you'll easily buy something for yourself.
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u/throwawaymrfoe 2d ago
I don't have the impression that OP is an old man who has paid off his mortgage. The bank is probably owed the majority of the value of the house since the principal is mostly paid back in the second half of the loan duration. That explains why he only gets 36k.
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u/StellaArtois3000 2d ago
You're forgetting that mortgages exist and still need to be paid off. He's 50 percent on the hook for debt outstanding.
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u/IfThisAintNice 2d ago
I might have missed it but where does it say it was bought for 220k? And when it was bought? We don't know what kind of loan and how much equity has been payed right? So yes he might be getting fleeced, but without those details it's hard to say.
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u/wafelenbak87 2d ago
Man, you’re in a tough spot and she knows you’re down right now. You should not be handling big financial decisions, like signing contracts for the house , by yourself in this state of mind. Best of luck to you man, and get some help (not just mentally).
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u/midnightsnipe 2d ago
Tbf, lawyer up.
I'va had a pretty rough divorce this past year as well. I even made sure I took the brunt of the costs (no indexation on my money that I put in, I moved house, she took over the loan and the fixed energy contracts), all of which is easy 25k.
Even then, after the divorce, she's trying to fleece me for 500 Euro's. I just gave it to her just to get rid of her.
Afterwards, she's still finding things to 'discuss' about, it's never enough with these people.
Just lawyer the fuck up so you're not the doing the communication and somebody in a good state of mind will actually defend your rights.
I 100% feel you, you're not willing to put up a fight anymore, not after all you've been through, but please my dude, save yourself the future headaches and get help
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u/amiexpress 2d ago
sent her boss to do it
And you agreed to this? Mate you got screwed, and not in a good way.
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u/wafelenbak87 2d ago
So she is getting all the benefits of the work that has been done (since she is staying in the house), but you're also paying for it? I mean, if the work on the house increases its value and you didnt pay your share then I get that you are not getting extra money for that. But this sounds like youre paying for her renovations?
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u/petit_cochon 2d ago
He was getting all the benefits of the work she paid for and now he isn't going to get cash from the value they brought. That's entirely fair.
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u/Wishmaster90 West-Vlaanderen 2d ago
You can use that 35K as leverage for income proof and get a 1 year contract maybe?
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u/gunfirinmaniac 2d ago
Get a lawyer. I bet you can get over 100-150k
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u/StellaArtois3000 2d ago
...which he'll need to pay off his half of the mortgage outstanding. Everyone in this thread is acting like there's only the value of the house to be split, but there's very likely to be a significant mortgage that OP owns 50% of, too. First years count for very little principal in regular mortgages so this debt will be significant, still.
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u/gunfirinmaniac 2d ago
AKSHUALLY
it really depends on the year he bought it…. Could be that they paid off like 90% of the loan or the house increased in value (like almost all houses).
https://giphy.com/gifs/bmLlSndzhqWgWb3vXW
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u/issy_haatin 2d ago
50/50, but she made me sign an updated acknowledgment of debt after every work done in the house.
She works with a notary, so yeah, I've been fleeced a bit.
Mate she was just making sure you weren't fleecing her. If she did all the investments of course she wanted to make sure everything was on the up and up
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u/Nichke7 15h ago
View from someone that rents out. The risk groups of lower income on % is just not worth. On average to many risk profiles of not paying or vandalism to the property. Of course not saying all are bad but in the end its all a numbers game
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u/Baka_Jaba 15h ago
Of course, I'd probably do the same in your shoes.. 30 people (or more) asking to rent your place, sort by income and voilà .
It just sucks to be at the bottom of the sheet all the time, and encourage to produce fake payment slips just to get a place to live.
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u/Nichke7 7h ago
Its not the income its the risk profile. Be carefull with fake statements 😉
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u/kappykas 22m ago
How do you define a risk profile? Explain your reasoning what makes you think someone is a risk or not
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u/Quaiche 2d ago
How long have you been on sick leave? That might be the thing worrying the landlords.
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u/Baka_Jaba 2d ago
It's been three years now. They're supposed to move me from the justice department to anywhere else, but that takes an awful lot of time.
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u/Sm3llconfident 2d ago
Just wondering what you're on sick leave for? No judging, I'm on it for 2 years. (serious back problems and depression)
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u/Baka_Jaba 2d ago
Burnout with suicidal ideations.
Put one worker who cares with dozens who don't, it's a recipe for disaster.
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u/-Captain-Iglo- 2d ago
Asside from this topic, know that even though things are probably really tough now with the breakup and additional stress for housing on top of your burnout. Things will get better!
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u/Mental-Peak8626 1d ago
What’s keeping you from taking another job elsewhere? How is not working a solution for burnout (in a specific job situation). I’m gonna sound a bit judgemental, but we are the architects of our own lives. You need to realize you’re in control ans able to make changes.
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u/Quaiche 1d ago
Ouch, that doesn't surprise me that nobody wants to rent to you.
Your profile isn't very good and in the current budget cutting mindset of governments, you appear like a quite huge risk and future liability because kicking out a tenant who doesn't pay rent takes forever and it's a terrible process with a lot of lost money.
You're not in a very enviable situation, good luck.
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u/pixie14 1d ago edited 1d ago
Some municipalities are preferring to pay fines for not having enough social housing, rather than build social housing. I work in OCMW and can tell you the housing crisis is going to become worse before it gets better. My colleague who specialises in housing has to keep telling people that there's not much we can do. I think in five or ten years, homelessness will become a reality for many more people.
I do wonder about the long term: since most of our population is pretty old, housing should eventually become less of an issue? What about twenty or thirty years?
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u/Fun_Boot7771 2d ago
I think you need to settle for a room first, then a place for yourself. I looked several times and have given upÂ
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u/Bisc-Off 2d ago
This really sucks, man. Hope you find a solution soon.
Have you checked co-housing? Sharing rent may be more viable right now.
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u/Kevkillerke 2d ago
The 3x the rent salary is fucking frustrating as a single person with no kids. I have barely expenses besides hobbies and food and those don't cost €1800 ffs. I feel you OP, I had to look for a appartement recently as well. Try other platforms like Facebook or via other people.
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u/Isotheis Hainaut 2d ago
Seeing the nextdoor apartment being rented for 1200€ per month, I always wonder...
- What kind of person earns 3600€ netto? It has to be netto, too, right?
- What do you even do with 2400€ per month in an apartment?
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u/Kevkillerke 2d ago
They look at income of everyone living there. So of it's a couple they have to earn €1800 each. I lived in 2 apartments rented via a real estate agent and for the first one I pretended I was going to cohouse with a friend (that friend went with me to see the apartment), the second time I just faked my income.
I was wondering why I was never getting any invitations to see an apartment, and Heylen just told me I was filtered out in most cases because the number I gave in as income was too low...
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u/BlinkNuWillMissMe 2d ago
Hi, hello, that sounds like me. I don't want to buy and I'm not having kids. That's why I rent for 1200.Â
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u/Isotheis Hainaut 2d ago
A couple in a 1-bedroom apartment? I guess people no longer have kids nowadays, that explains it...
I'm just amazed an apartment in basically the same location as mine, 50% larger, is double the price. All that because it got a fancy coat of wallpaper and shiny tiles.
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u/Kevkillerke 2d ago
Well, not everyone wants kids. That's correct.
And people just pay the high rent because there's nothing else available. Maybe you already had your apartment before rent exploded? Or big apartments are in high demand in your area or something. Could be many things, but asking to have triple the income of what the rent costs for people without kids is just absurd.
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u/Isotheis Hainaut 2d ago
It's what I'm hearing when I come home, the dude is straight up expecting "one-third two-thirds".
I think he's just delusional personally. Somehow, he'll never rent this even in the middle of the housing crisis. It's the worst deal in town and he makes it hard too lol. Dunno if it's typical of people buying and renovating apartments to be like that...
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u/Hour-Initiative-5087 2d ago
When do you expect to be able to resume work? It would surely increase your chances if you get back into it.
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u/Baka_Jaba 2d ago
No clues, all I know is that I'm not going back into the justice department.
Still waiting on Medex/Empreva processes.
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u/guest6O2 2d ago edited 2d ago
Having to earn 3 times the rent amount is such a stupid rule. I don't have a huge salary but I have a lot of meal vouchers, a lot of money on a fuel card per month and a company car. Also food is free at the cafeteria of my job so I basically never spend a dime in food. And yet none of that is taken into account when I'm looking to rent a place. I hate the renting system in Belgium. In France at least you can have something decent for 500€... Here you can't have anything. Even a kot is 700€ per month.
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u/adappergentlefolk 2d ago
stronger renter rights and a strict planning system that puts other concerns above building housing logically leads to this in every country on the planet. a ton of american cities managed to have rents fall for multiple years recently because they made it easy for evil developers to build
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/Highandfast 1d ago
But the developers's business is selling those homes, isn't it? Apart from a monopoly situation, a larger volume of real estate drives prices down. The supply and demand mechanism is real.
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u/0x53r3n17y 1d ago
That depends entirely on who can and will buy houses. Yes, there's demand, yes there's volume. But that means next to nothing if a shrinking group can afford to buy.
Analogous example: chips.
Plenty of demand. There's volume. Where do those chips end up? Not with end consumers. Niche market where you can see how this plays out: gaming computers. Those become unaffordable, and Nvidia tests the waters with gaming via a streaming service, making gamers, effectively, tenants who don't own their hardware.
You do not want that to happen to housing. That's how you get tenaments, apartments blocks and all the social and economic problems that come with those.
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u/Highandfast 1d ago
But chips is exactly the supply and demand scenario at play. There's not enough chips for everyone, so the price skyrockets. So if you don't want that to happen, is it smart to make it so there's not enough homes for everyone?
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u/0x53r3n17y 1d ago
Do you really believe that real estate developers will build plenty of cheap houses and sell them directly to 20/30 something's who need "starter" housing?
Gentrification? Artificial scarcity?
Plenty of urban centers already see this. Old houses are purchased, razed instead of renovated, then a fancy apartment block with 8 or so units is put down. Each unit is sold at a price that far exceeds the worth of the old house. It's bought by people who can afford to do so as "opbrengsteigendom" who then rent it to out. Rinse, repeat.
Is that smart? If you have wealth, yes. If you care about a healthy society: definitely not. This is exactly what breeds resentment and social problems in the long run.
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u/adappergentlefolk 2d ago edited 2d ago
sorry but this is just delusional analysis. pensions are low. lmao. it isn’t possible to engage with you guys if you cannot face the facts - we are not a unique snowflake, many surrounding countries have the same issues including bad planning systems and catastrophically high pensions with economies that can no longer sustain them. france will go bankrupt if they continue with this, for example. and I guess you are arguing that somehow, our developers are more powerful than developers in say denver?
seriously listen to yourself - why do you think home ownership has become more expensive? do you know what supply and demand is?
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u/vleesbrood 12h ago
If you think you can pay a certain number every month for sure, then just fake your payslips, nobody will ever check
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u/Isotheis Hainaut 2d ago
A lot of landlords are delusional like that, but that's not all of them. You just got to try a lot... a lot of places. I mean, I guess a lot of them simply can't fathom managing such a small amount of money, even though many people's existences show it's perfectly doable... Though not all people are good at budget... For my case, not having/wanting to have a car does a lot. But it's unfathomable for most Walloons.
I've visited more than 60 places before being accepted into this one. And that was while in a hurry, given I was being evicted in 3 months due to the housing no longer being inhabitable. I was days away from homelessness.
Yeah, I've also asked cities for social housing. I do qualify, after all. 15 to 20 years waiting list, or "none available" depending where I asked.
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u/Verzuchter 2d ago
Vooruit is too busy faking management company numbers to do something like this, which should actually matter.Â
Twice the rent should be an enforceable law right now, because even banks are moving towards 40% wage paymentsÂ
And then hopefully we can tackle building costs by stripping away the ginormous amount of red tape to convert a fucking farm in a big town into apartments and small houses. It seems government just doesn’t like redevelopment, at least here…
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u/Spikooo 2d ago
1500 a month? How long you have been on sick leave for champ? I mean its healthy to have 3-6months of expenses in an a emergency fund in general so yeah its very common and not crazy for the landlord to expect this. Who knows what you might be doing to the place after given the keys shits expensive now to repair.
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u/BlinkNuWillMissMe 2d ago
Why so condenscending? You have no idea what they have and yet you feel you can criticise and demean. You're the kampeon here...
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u/SandEnvironmental484 2d ago
I feel you, had the same with my car. I paid every month, without delay but when it came time to renew, I could not due to this stupid rule.
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u/Tasty-Register-7442 1d ago
Why don't you propose to pay upfront a longer period with the proceeds from your house sale?
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u/Large-Examination650 1d ago
You’ll have to work harder; you aren’t earning enough money. Get another job—a side job.
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u/Whiteorchid1993 1d ago
It’s indeed impossible, it’s crazy that the rent prices are so f****ng high
I’ve got a lot of luck last year, when I was searching for a home.. I’m one of the few lucky ones who got an affordable rent to pay €750 euro for a one person house with 2 bedrooms and a little terrace and it is not old house, they renovated it 15 years ago..
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u/MEOWConfidence 1d ago
What is going on with Belgium? How can someone who afforded to buy a house end up without a home and others saving and saving not being able to buy a house and is forced to rent??
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u/silent_dominant 1d ago
Consider Cohousing.
Its not great but it might help you out at least temporarilyÂ
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u/OmiOmega Flanders 11h ago
If you aren't already you should put yourself on the social housing list.
And maybe look at cohousing, this market isn't suited for singles renting sadly.
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u/VloekenenVentileren 2d ago
Going back to work isn't an option?
I'm shocked at the low amount of money you receive. I save almost double what you earn per month, and I'm not even doing all that great and I'm single. Having a partner is such an advantage.
Seems like you are bound to be renting either some kinda shack (and even then it's going to be difficult to find something) or you'll need to do house-sharing.
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u/CowPlaysDirty 2d ago
I’m sorry but if you’re by yourself and able to save 3k per month then you shouldn’t even be commenting on this thread. I don’t want to be impolite but you’re miles off his situation.
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u/Tasty_Chapter6459 2d ago
Agreed, and saying "not even doing all that great" is just bashing the other guy needlessly.
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u/VloekenenVentileren 2d ago
For the record, I'm shocked that such a low amount of benefits is considered liveable by our goverment!
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u/Boris7939 2d ago
How fucking disconnected from reality do you need to be to think you're not doing all that great when you're able to save €3k a month?!
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u/VloekenenVentileren 2d ago
To be fair, I've only been making that for the last year after a promotion and I'm still getting used to it. And I don't feel like I could do really weird or expensive things. I rent a small appartment and my car is second hand. (hence being able to save a lot of money)
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u/Aquilax420 2d ago
You're not doing all that great? If your net income is already high enough to be saving €3000, you are already in the top 15% to 20% of earners in Belgium. You definitely need to realize how privileged you are
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u/VloekenenVentileren 2d ago
that's why I'm shocked. I'm not even feeling all that great and I'm shocked anyone is meant to survive on 1300 euros a month.
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u/Aquilax420 2d ago
The fact that you said that you're not doing all that great is the issue. It might be just because of the way you worded it.
If you feel like you're not able to do the things you'd like while earning that much, especially if you have to pay rent and maintain a car, is worth looking into. Unless there's something specific that you're saving for, there's no real need to be saving that much if it makes you feel like you're unable to enjoy life.
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u/semtexxxx Belgium 2d ago
You need specific financial counseling. Contact OCMW or similar, they can point you in the right direction. Try to als multiple ppl there, increases your chances of actually getting help.
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u/No_Box498 2d ago
Ocmw will fill in your income up to leefloon, but your assets can make this difficult for the time being
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u/Mental-Peak8626 1d ago
Unless you have a contract,you get 50% of the value increase of the house. Apart from that, there is no point having a victim mentality. Surely there is something you can do to increase your income.
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u/ResponsibleCut6604 2d ago
Either you take a 1 year contract and pay 12 months of rent in once
Or you look for co housing
But normal renting 1000 a month with 1500 income, no landlord is going to accept that