it's a feeling of "god damn how unlucky/fucked up am i" after meeting a version of you that's cis instead and/or it's a feeling of trans imposter syndrome from there being a cis version of you
Well...yes. we know that from twin studies. That's part of it, but doesnt make any of it any less valid.
Also, considering that in some iterations of the multiverse, Spider(wo)man is directly born to Aunt May & Uncle Ben, one of those external factors is also genetics.
The twin studies actually showed the more genetically similar you are, the more likely you are to both be transgender aka identical twins, if one was trans, there was a 20% chance that both were trans, vs much lower rates in fraternal twins.
Environment includes changes in the womb, individual genetic changes during gestation, too.
Can't tell if this bad faith reframing is coming from a transphobe trying to dismiss trans existence or a pro-trans person trying to criticize the concept
My money's on the former, unfortunately. Someone who is pro-trans shouldn't be criticizing this concept, because to do so wouls be to lean into truscum ideology and invalidates the existence of enbies, as it denies gender as social construct.
well no, probably not, twin studies show that most things related to sexuality and gender are not (entirely) genetic. But we also haven't found any link between the environment wherin or way people are raised and their sexuality or gender. So probably it's a lot more complicated than that. There might be some third mechanism somewhere in between nature and nurture that we just don't know about yet. Or not, experts don't know yet.
Sure, the same way it prevented people from being gay, or being left handed, or being heretics. We know that from conversion camps. If you torture someone enough, either physically, mentally, or emotionally, they will repress even the most basic parts of themselves in order to survive. That's inarguable.
It is also morally reprehensible.
It's never been a matter of could. We've known that to be possible for literal centuries. Hell, that's the entire plot of 1984. The problem is when you start deciding what is and what isnt acceptable, instead of letting people decide for themselves what is or isnt acceptable for themselves, you run down dark roads real fast.
No? There is a universe where peter parker is a pig. Different universe spiderpeople are just different from each other in whatever way the writer feels like.
Weird that you are just operating under the assumption that gender dysphoria is entirely the result of negative experiences.
Even beyond that, your logic is ass-backwards.
Gender dysphoria causes hurt because of societal pressure causing those suffering from it to repress themselves and not pursue avenues of self-expression that would make them happy.
Any society that values personal freedom should be entirely ambivalent towards people seeking to explore their gender identity, the fact much of our society isn't is a massive, hypocritical flaw.
Attempting to "prevent" transgender people from existing would be impossible in any free society, anyway.
You would have to essentially hammer it into kids' brains at a young age, enforcing traditional gender norms through harsh behavioral training.
Telling them "this isn't for you," and punishing them if they expressed curiosity towards things that you didn't want them to.
That sounds a lot like indoctrination to me.
That's what the comment you replied to was trying to say. You can't do that kind of stuff without betraying the idea of personal freedom and self-expression that are fundamental to modern society.
External factors/society "makes people trans" the same way society and external factors "make" more neurodivergent people. Trans people always existed. Being exposed to the concept helps some people understand themselves better. You cant make someone trans the same way you cant make a trans person cis
But I mean...That's bound to happen, though. It's a multiverse, there are cis and trans Spideys, different ethnical backgrounds, different nationalities, different orientations, is it really worth getting bummed about?
This is Petra's first encounter with the multiverse. She doesn't know about Spider-Pig and all that, she just knows that there's a Peter Parker who looks just like she did before she transitioned, but doesn't have any of the gender issues that she's struggling with.
There's another comic that comes before this one that makes it clearer.
No, it's just a fan comic. The artist who made this one has made at least two others about this specific scene with Petra meeting a multiverse version of herself, though.
Petra is a female spider man who shows up in a tv show. Fans recently have started projecting the trans identity on her because they would it would be funny if jj wanted to call them a man but didn't want to be homophobic and how much he would struggle with it.
None of this is real official Spider-Man universe stuff
For the comment that got deleted this is your actual Petra Parker, who isn't trans and who has that projected on them by the fans who have created their own version of her
I mean TECHNICALLY in a multiverse, no version of peter/petra is "created" by fans. Every version of them are probably a thing in one of the infinite number of universes
It's not technically in anything. Fan characters are not in the cannon universe. Instead of making their own character they made a all ready existing character trans because they thought it be funny if jj wanted to still call them spiderman but couldn't because it wouldn't be acceptable and thought him struggling would be funny
I mean i get the irony but that's like saying "oh god" in front of a man who had to live in religious childhood hell. Sure, ironic in the worst moment possible, but it's still just an expression at the end of the day...
Petra is a female version of Spider Man that has recently had a surge of online popularity with the fan idea that she is transgender. This comic is about the idea of Petra meeting a cis Peter and how that situation may have uncomfortable for both of them.
Not quite.
This Petra is a separate character who happens to share a name with the Canon Petra (Female equivalent name for Peter and all)
Canon Petra comes from a universe where EVERYONE is gender-swapped, while THIS Petra comes from a universe where the main difference is that she's trans
I am very well aware of the Petra Parker phenomenon. I am criticizing the comic on its terms. They just don't feel like the same person at all - and speaking from experience, estrogen doesn't do THAT much in the personality department.
I think she’s just acting like that because of the dysphoria caused by seeing her pre-transition self and feeling like she doesn’t fit in with the rest of the spider people because she’s trans and they aren’t.
She doesn't fit in because she isn't a nervous dork who cracks jokes to ease tension and build up confidence. I understand your interpretation of it, but it really just doesn't feel like any kind of variation of the same character - only, some new shmuck.
She's literally a variant of Peter Parker with a (mostly) similar upbringing. The only difference between them is that she's trans, the fact that she's this different is just… meh.
The difference isn't just estrogen you see, gender dysphoria is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
You're not seeing the same person with one chemical difference, you're seeing the same person but one of them has had way more serious existential shit to cope with in life.
Being trans isn't more or less a struggle than any of Peter's other struggles. But Petra has also had all the same struggles Peter had plus one more. That's why it's more. Because it's literally everything else plus one more.
*Edit: Meant to reply to the person you're replying to. I agree with you.
Being trans is "way more serious" than constantly risking your life in do-or-die situations? I get if it speaks to something more visceral to the reader, but I feel fit to question that statement in a vacuum.
Besides, not everyone with the condition gets quite so...deflated, as alot of Petra characterizations.
Petra's transness isn't replacing Peter's struggles, she's hypothetically experiencing Peter's struggles plus her own additional ones. More as in quantity. That's what I meant.
No, being trans isn't inherently more serious than constantly risking your life in do-or-die situations. My point was that if Petra is otherwise going through everything Peter goes through, while also dealing with gender dysphoria and being trans, then Petra is dealing with more overall than Peter is. You can't really compare “being trans” to “being a superhero” when the comparison is supposed to be between two people who are already both superheroes.
I guess so. Just still feels like a stranger - or, more like that girl from Worm showed up in the costume. Whichever. You responded elsewhere but I doubt we're going to come to any consensus on this. Do what you gotta do.
My reading is that this is a trans petra who is meeting her first multiversal self, and it's a cis peter who has met other cis petras.
I think it's a mix of dysphoria from seeing a cis male version of her, and a sort of isolating feeling of. Okay so even the literal alternate universe you isn't someone you can share that experience with.
I've been seeing a lot of angsty comics like this one, and they're all terribly and distressingly fucking miserable. Sometimes it seems as though Peter ought to feel ashamed for not transitioning.
I just figure there's so much less that changes if an alternate is trans, than if they're a different race. Different race means different parents, different background, possibly the history of the entire world is different to facilitate a version of you whose ancestry is from the other side of the planet.
Being trans means a tiny difference in genetic expression or hormones.
I mean... is it? I think that seeing a trans version of me would make me have to do a little backtracking and do the whole 'what gender am i' thing over again. Seeing a version of me that has a different color wouldn't surprise me as much since I do have relatives with darker skin, it could just be a matter of the genetic dice being different across universes.
Wait, how exactly did you take my other comment as?
I just figure there's so much less that changes if an alternate is trans, than if they're a different race. Different race means different parents, different background, possibly the history of the entire world is different to facilitate a version of you whose ancestry is from the other side of the planet.
Oh, I get it. If you think of it like that, it does seem a lot more surprising.
I guess for me it wouldn't really need to change much, maybe? I live in a pretty diverse country already, so at most, if I do see an alternative version of me that's a different skin color, I think I would have thought that the only thing of different would be like... I dunno, a different great-/grandparent or genetics.
But if I see a trans version of me that lived seemingly the exact same life and had the exact same enviroment/parents as me, I would have put more thought on it besides just 'eh, genetics'.
idk, i think when people think about alternative versions of spiderman, they're not picturing people with similar lineages and whatever to Spiderman 616, they're thinking about people who went through similar events to him and have a similar set of skills, personality, etc.
like, if i were to "Enter the Cemented-Lightbulb-verse," as it were, id expect to see all sorts of versions of myself from different countries and continents, genders, ethnicities, and so on, but we'd still be united by the "canon events" in our lives. i would be very surprised to find one that is cis, however, because transness is a major part of my life that's directly impacted many of my "canon events" in ways that would be immensely difficult to reconcile with a cis identity. it's true that being POC or from another country can massively influence your upbringing, but i know plenty of people from countries or ethnicities that aren't my own that nevertheless have similar upbringings, life experiences, opinions and outlooks, life problems and goals, etc. to me. i don't know any that are cis. even if they had the same exact family and financial situation as me, i think it would be very difficult for me to see a cis version of myself as still "me," so learning that most multiversal versions of "me" aren't trans would be a pretty big culture shock. it would mean a lot of my base assumptions of what my "essential elements" are would be incorrect.
“The genetic dice” you’d have to be born to entirely different people. This would make you an entirely different person. Meanwhile, you’ve said you already looked into the gender thing. Same here, and to avoid putting words in your mouth I’ll use myself: if I am already the type of person to do that introspection, how much has to change in my dna/environment/whatever to have that swing a different way? Probably not much. Certainly my parents wouldn’t need to change.
If you are born to a white and a black parent but look completely like one of them, you would not be surprised to see that in another reality 'you' looking mixed or like the other parent
Is it really? I'm brown and trans but if I was cis I'd 100% not be surprised that there are ppl who aren't my race BC most ppl aren't? And like in the grand scheme of things there are way more ppl who aren't a given race than who aren't cis
I just figure there's so much less that changes if an alternate is trans, than if they're a different race. Different race means different parents, different background, possibly the history of the entire world is different to facilitate a version of you whose ancestry is from the other side of the planet.
same but in the spiderman context because if alternate spidermen(you) were different races or even species, it's kinda easier to take in because you'd conclude that the alternate spidermen aren't really alternates of you, but rather "spiderman" is a mantle that someone takes up in their world
an actually alternate YOU is probably a different thing to take in
Genuinely. Like, I know I don't struggle with gender. But like, if every single multiverse version of me was Adolf Hitler. Doesn't change what I am, lmao. Those guys can choke on dicks, for all I care, they ain't me.
Exactly I'm not sure how your alt version of you not being you would cause you any grief. Literally doesn't matter to you people have different up bringings. Up here complaining about this instead of being on the ground saving people dose someone uncle ben have to die?
A common experience for trans people is a version of imposter syndrome/self doubt. Seeing an alternate version of yourself that is happy as cis just reinforces that feeling.
It wouldn't. I don't see how knowing there is a straight version of me is any different from knowing there is a dinosaur version of me. I'd be much more surprised knowing alternate reality versions of me exist in the first place.
I think it's not about finding out there's a dinosaur version of you, but every single version of you in the entire MULTIVERSE is a dinosaur, you're the only one who's human.
that's not really a good metaphor though? In Petra/Peter's case, as far as the story is concerned, the only difference between them is one transitioned and the other didn't. Literally just one difference between them. They're both still human, still the same upbringing and supposedly the same personality.
And, as I said in a difference comment here, nowhere in this comic does it say Petra is the ONLY trans spidey. Just that Peter isn't. There could be millions of spideys out there Petra could connect with about their experiences.
Yeah mb it's not mentioned anywhere that she's the only trans person. I just thought that she's the only trans spidey created by artists so from our perspective, is the only one in their multiverse. She's just sad cuz a literal alternate version of herself showed up and even he can't relate to her struggle.
No she's upset she isn't special or the first one.
She doesn't say this she asks that he has nor reaction to her being a lady spider and spider man replies sure at first but you're like the 40th spider person i met. Then somehow it transitions into you disrespected me and should stop talking lol.
Imagine wanting to be accepted for who you are and not being able to accept others for who they are
How is THAT where you take this? No concept of “wow finally somebody I can share how fucking weird my life is with-oh wait”
No concept of Petra looking at some bizarro parallel reality of herself from when she was in IMMENSE emotional pain all the time but they’re just chill about it? Nope can’t imagine that’d be odd at all for anybody must just be narcissism
What you're describing is narcissism. She is literally projecting her trauma onto another person expecting them to just accept it. Why should Peter have to feel guilt over being who he is? Isn't that hypocritical of Petra?
Taken from a clinic's website explaining the disorder:
"Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance. They need and seek too much attention and want people to admire them. People with this disorder may lack the ability to understand or care about the feelings of others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence, they are not sure of their self-worth and are easily upset by the slightest criticism."
Alright, since you’ve managed to open Google since you’ve started this conversation, what diagnostic criteria does she meet? Surely if you’re experienced enough to diagnose this woman on the back of a 4-panel comic you must have a robust understanding of how doing that actually works
The point of the comic isn't that Peter should feel bad for being who he is. It's just that Petra is tragically alone in her experiences, even in the company of alternate versions of herself, and that's unfortunate for her.
I don't see how that distinction is relevant here? She's not sitting with the whole spiderverse. Just Peter.
She expected to be able to relate to Peter about her experiences with dysphoria, because he's an alternate version of herself, and was sad to realize she couldn't. That's the comic. How does any of that frame Peter as guilty of anything, or make her a narcisssist?
Right, but this is the FIRST TIME Petra’s interacted with the Spiderverse in this comic, and we know from the first of these comics that she and Pete look exactly alike
Is it narcissistic for her to see Pete’s suit, have her Spidey-Sense go off, and intuit that he has similar powers to her? Why is it suddenly a personality disorder for her to know he’s like her and wonder if he shares other parts of her core identity?
"I mean there is literally a version of you and me that's just a bunch of spiders... And a werewolf, also A GIANT spider... Also do you know we have a t-Rex version of us running around? Let's see what else, multiple arms, clones, Zombie, Ghost spider, Cosmic entity, Comic Pig, Monkey... Honestly at this point seeing a Version of me that's a woman doesn't even enter the surprise scale....do you think there is a Panda spider somewhere out there?"
Nerd glasses on: that's because the hyphen in Spider-man was to avoid getting sued due to similarities to "Superman," while the period at the end of "T." in "T. rex" is to denote the acronym for Tyrannosaurus or similar family, so yeah it would be Spider-Rex.
I guess we can assume the Rex is part of a proper noun and thus can be capitalized.
Quite a few girls around here, but do you have a mech?
I got to say, I get what the conflict/issue is supposed to be. But I think an alternate Trans Version of most other heroes (other than Wade) could purely logically transport it better.
Spider-(Wo)man variants and by extension Petra Parker must be kept in a near constant state of not being happy, lest editorial must step in to force One More Day 2: Electric Boogaloo
Why are trans people constantly depicted as depressive, insecure, and annoying? I find that stereotype offensive. We have Jax from The Digital Circus, a spidertrans telling Peter to shut up, Taash from Dragon Age, and the Crystal Gems from Steven Universe constantly breaking down and having mental breakdowns. Trans people should act empowered because they are supposedly free from gender norms, which would imply that they are ahead in the game of life, but they act like victims all the time. Why is that? Do you guys know any actually iconic, cool trans characters that I could look up to in media?
When I look up to Goku or Batman, I don't want them to be like me. I want them to be awesome and idealistic, and I wish there were a trans character like that. Do you know any? I'm seriously struggling to come up with one. Is Angel from Hazbin Hotel trans or non binary? Because I think he's cool.
Jesus of Nazareth, Otis from Back at the Barnyard, Margaret from Regular Show, Darth Vader, Osama Bin Ladin from South Park, Buggs Bunny, The Joker from The Dark Knight, Jack Sparrow, and Steve from Minecraft.
Serious answer: Kiara from JJK, Nocturne from BG3, Gwen Stacy from the spiderverse, and Bridget from Guilt Gear to name the ones I've actually seen in media I've personally watched or played.
same thing they're doing to Petra. She comes from a gender swapped reality where every character is the opposite gender, but somehow she's trans. There's no logic.
you didn't rephrase this, you just added words in-between, but i'll answer it anyway. the reason is because EVERY OTHER DEPICTION OTHER THAN THOSE is either written by a cis person and is horribly stereotyped or is written to be a perfect uwu baby to not offend Le Real Cis People. trans people are so fucking bored of that and want imperfect representation like any other normal human. walter white is imperfect, and people praise the character for his writing and acting, deservedly. the fact is that trans people DO experience dysphoria and discomfort and anger and they want to use those emotions on SOMETHING and that manifests from creatives as a character. people WANT to see themselves in characters and DONT want another perfectly-nice-and-not-perceivable-as-affecting-the-status-quo character written by a cis person who doesn't want trans people to be visible or speaking about their issues.
I remember hearing a line about this somewhere, I think it was something like, "you know you'll have achieved equality when you are allowed to be mediocre."
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u/Depresso_Expresso069 Sep 02 '26
im confused at what this is trying to say