r/baseball • u/SouthernDerpfornia California Angels • Dec 08 '17
Last Call Official /r/Baseball Mock 2018 Hall of Fame Voting
Hello, /r/baseball!
The last couple of years, I have done a Hall of Fame ballot for /r/baseball via google forms. The results from last year are visible here.
As usual, there will be two ballots:
A standard ballot where you are only allowed to vote for up to 10 players, just like the real life ballot
A ballot with no 10 player restriction
Important Note: On both of these ballots there is an option to make your ballot blank. Submitting a blank ballot is effectively voting against every player. If you select the blank ballot option and 1 or more players, I will throw your ballot out.
Here are the ballots:
Standard Ballot
No Limit Ballot
Resources:
Real life ballots be collected by @NotMrTibbs
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Dec 08 '17
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u/climb_the_shit_rope New York Yankees Dec 08 '17
He should get in eventually. The ballot is just so clogged for the next few years.
But if you don't think Wagner should be in then you never watched him pitch, or even winked at his stats. The guy was flat out dominate
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u/camly75 Cincinnati Reds • New Hampshire… Dec 08 '17
I wasn't on board at first, but when you look at his stats he's a no brainer. I feel the same way about Mussina.
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u/UnionJacket New York Yankees Dec 09 '17
God I just looked at his stats and I'm amazed. He had one season that wasn't ridiculously good and it was a full decade before he retired. His stats look like he could've just kept on pitching for another decade.
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u/elfassigaming New York Mets Dec 11 '17
Throwing in some shameless self promo: https://musingsofabaseballaddict.com/2017/12/06/the-case-for-the-hall-billy-wagner/
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u/tommyjohnpauljones Chicago Cubs Dec 10 '17
Wagner is better than Hoffman. There is no argument otherwise.
Hoffman can be in, too, but not at the expense of Wagner.
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u/WerhmatsWormhat Baltimore Orioles Dec 10 '17
What if I think neither should be in?
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u/tommyjohnpauljones Chicago Cubs Dec 10 '17
you're still wrong, but less wrong than someone who would pick Hoffman but not Wagner
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u/Constant_Gardner11 New York Yankees • MVPoster Dec 08 '17
I'm only voting for Eli Manning, don't hate.
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u/FatalFungus Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 08 '17
Looks like he was benched from the ballot.
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u/ajwhite98 New York Yankees Dec 08 '17
but only for this year though
next year he'll be back on the ballot
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u/PKMKII New York Mets Dec 09 '17
And the year after that he'll sell you an authentic, filled out ballot. No really, it's genuine, he swears it.
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u/phl_fc Baltimore Orioles Dec 08 '17
The Hall of Very Good.
Fite me
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u/Constant_Gardner11 New York Yankees • MVPoster Dec 08 '17
NFL Hall of Fame is nowhere near as rigorous as baseball's. He's in.
50,625 yards (7th all-time)
334 touchdowns (7th all-time)
4,319 completed passes (6th all-time)
210 starts (9th all-time)
2x Super Bowl champion
2x Super Bowl MVP
4x Pro Bowl22
u/phl_fc Baltimore Orioles Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
If we go by counting stats every active QB who plays more than 10 years in the game today should be in. Offenses are just so much better with the current rules that you need to compare a player to their peers to get a sense of how good they were. 4 pro bowls in a 14 season career isn't elite compared to his peers. His greatest asset really is just that he stayed healthy, he's an above-average QB that simply played for a long time.
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u/tommyjohnpauljones Chicago Cubs Dec 10 '17
HOF Eligible QBs with 2+ Super Bowl wins:
Bart Starr (HOF), Bob Griese (HOF), Terry Bradshaw (HOF), Roger Staubach (HOF), Joe Montana (HOF), Troy Aikman (HOF), John Elway (HOF), Jim Plunkett (not HOF)
Peyton Manning is a stone cold lock for HOF induction when eligible. Tom Brady is more of a lock than Peyton Manning. Ben Roethlisberger should also be a lock.
So, basically Eli is Jim Plunkett, or he's in the Hall of Fame.
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u/QuackFan Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 11 '17
What about elite Joe Flacco?
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u/tommyjohnpauljones Chicago Cubs Dec 11 '17
Only one SB berth and win for him so far. Dilfer was their QB in 2000.
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u/navin__johnson San Diego Padres Dec 10 '17
You're right. I just looked up Drew Brees stats and he currently has 8,000 more passing yards and 60+ more TDs than Dan Marino. Drew Brees is pretty great, but when Marino played he was considered the pentulimate passer of his time.
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u/sleeper_54 St. Louis Cardinals Dec 11 '17 edited Dec 11 '17
"pentulimate" . . . uhmmm ...penultimate . . . I do not think it means what you think it does.
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u/gamedemon24 New York Yankees • Daytona Tortugas Dec 10 '17
Jeez, I don't follow football closely, but I'm stunned he has all time ranks that high up.
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Dec 08 '17
r/baseball gonna give Bonds 105% of its vote
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u/SouthernDerpfornia California Angels Dec 08 '17
He has not gotten in on any of the standard ballots before. In fact, last year he and Clemens doing better than IRL but not getting elected resulted in /r/baseball electing only Bagwell, where as the BBWAA elected Bagwell, Pudge, and Rainers
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Dec 08 '17
It’s not like his numbers are otherworldly or anything.
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Dec 08 '17
I mean nobody disagrees that they are. This is just a comment on r/baseball's stance regarding steroid users, right or wrong.
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Dec 08 '17
Because honestly it is IMO and obviously the opinions of others on this sub that it’s faulty logic to make an example out of Bonds and “the steroid era” but still vote in players from the era, including a couple who were accused just like he was.
As well as the argument that the HoF is already filled with a variety of cheaters why choose now to take a moral high ground?
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Dec 08 '17
Well, I'm not looking for an argument and the original comment wasn't supposed to be anything more than a joke but I'll answer your question from my perspective.
People ask why now? There are already terrible people, cheaters and racists in the HOF. Well, imo you don't make another mistake just because you made mistakes in the past. I'd also be fine with removing people from the hall for one reason or another. I was never around to choose to take a moral high ground when others were voted in but I am now. I think the HOF should be about more than just stats and performance. It's an honor that we should only bestow upon the best players AND representatives/ambassadors of the game. I respect that people disagree with me, however.
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u/radiomuse162 New York Mets Dec 12 '17
He’s got to get in before Stanton hits 75+ in the ALE this coming season
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u/MrKnee93 Anaheim Angels Dec 08 '17
Nearly submitted a blank ballot in protest of no Adam Kennedy option.
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u/Metsareawesome5 New York Mets Dec 08 '17
I voted for Carlos Lee on my no limit ballot AMA
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Dec 08 '17
He's definitely in the top 5 for Lee Hall of Fame of the 2000's decade.
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u/Metsareawesome5 New York Mets Dec 08 '17
I know in terms of WAR he wasn't that great but I like the guy too much
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Dec 08 '17
I was always a big Derrek Lee fan. He had that amazing 2005 season but couldn't replicate it.
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Dec 10 '17
He broke his wrist in a collision at first with Rafael Furcal and wasn't the same for two years, in 2009 he regained his power stroke and hit 39 dongs.
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Dec 08 '17 edited Aug 28 '18
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u/Metsareawesome5 New York Mets Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
Vlad, Hoffman, Chipper, Kent, Edgar, McGriff, Rolen, Thome, Walker
Edit: I looove Vizquel, I just couldn't do it though
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u/3pointonefour15 San Diego Padres Dec 10 '17
I did the exact same, but with Vizquel.
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u/jacksonattack Minnesota Twins Dec 11 '17
My man.
Vizquel is probably gonna end up being one of the most hotly debated players in terms of his worthiness.
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u/Arthur___Dent Seattle Mariners Dec 11 '17
Mussina?
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u/Metsareawesome5 New York Mets Dec 11 '17
Shoot, I meant to vote for Mussina and I actually might have over McGriff but just forgotten
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u/AKAWOLFIE Dec 11 '17
I did this exact ballot but with Bonds and Clemens over Rolen and Walker. #SteroidsAreForWinners
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u/soccerperson Seattle Mariners Dec 08 '17
I voted only Moyer and Edgar to make an example of the voting process because the MLB didn't punish steroid users!
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u/SouthernDerpfornia California Angels Dec 08 '17
If you made a mistake, you can ping me in this thread and I can remove your bad ballot
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u/CydoniaKnight Los Angeles Angels • Sell Dec 08 '17
Is it too late to change my ballot to induct Shohei Ohtani?
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u/Metsareawesome5 New York Mets Dec 08 '17
How long will this be up for?
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u/SouthernDerpfornia California Angels Dec 08 '17
Last year I did it for about a week, so at least that
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u/paganhobbit New York Yankees Dec 10 '17
Can you delete my standard ballot, please? Apparently I’m an idiot.
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u/AnalAttackProbe Minnesota Twins Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
Probe's official ballot:
Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Trevor Hoffman, Andruw Jones, Chipper Jones, Edgar Martinez, Johan Santana, Jim Thome, Omar Vizquel, Larry Walker
The older I get the less I care about steroids. Fight me.
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Dec 08 '17
Santana over Mussina is unacc(notices flair)... oh.
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u/AnalAttackProbe Minnesota Twins Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
If Sandy Koufax deserves to be in the HOF, so does Johan Santana.
Koufax got in based on a "peak period" of dominance in a career cut short by injury. Santana's case is exactly the same and their numbers are pretty comparable. Koufax's career FIP- is a 75, Santana's is an 81. Koufax's career ERA- is a 75, Santana's is a 74. Over the best 5 year stretches of their careers Santana's ERA- was a 64, compared to Koufax's 60.2...
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u/harriswill Athletics Dec 08 '17
Wow we were close:
- Barry Bonds
- Roger Clemens
- Vladimir Guerrero
- Trevor Hoffman
- Andruw Jones
- Chipper Jones
- Edgar Martinez
- Johan Santana
- Curt Schilling
- Jim Thome
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u/Thromnomnomok Seattle Mariners Dec 09 '17
Schilling over Mussina?
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u/MurrayTheMelloHorn San Francisco Giants Dec 09 '17
Very much yes.
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u/UncleOscar420 Jackie Robinson Dec 09 '17
Schilling’s one of the best big game pitchers ever. Won a WS MVP with RJ in 2001. Obviously the bloody sock in 2004. 11-2 with a 2.23 in the postseason. It’s so silly to me he lost votes because of his recent comments. I don’t like him as a person but he’s 100% a HOF to me (I have Mussina in too but Schilling should’ve already made it)
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u/Tyrion_Bannedister Athletics Dec 09 '17
I'd have this same list but I'd swap Andruw Jones for Mussina
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u/Dragonborn2046 New York Yankees Dec 08 '17
Wagner was better than Hoffman.
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u/AnalAttackProbe Minnesota Twins Dec 08 '17
Honus? Yeah but he's already in the Hall and not a pitcher.
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u/masacer Atlanta Braves Dec 08 '17
Limited: Chipper, Thome, Hoffman, Guerrero, Moose, Edgar, Andruw, Johan, Rolen, Wagner
Strategy: Get the first 4 in, clear space for others below. Give Moose and Edgar momentum for next year (especially Edgar who will be on his final ballot next year). Keep the last 4 on the ballot. I think all (except maaaaybe Johan) are Hall of Famers, and there’s a decent chance all get axed. I want them on
Extended: Add Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Manny, Walker, Sheff, McGriff, Kent, Omar, Sosa.
Holy crap that’s 20 names, which is the most I think I’ve ever theoretically voted for. Some of those (the last 4 on the list, plus Johan) are borderline for me, but today I’m feeling generous
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u/Dos_Pesos Chicago Cubs Dec 08 '17
It's always interesting to see how hard it is to have a player inducted via this ballot. Ken Griffey Jr was the only one last year right?
Nvm he was 2 years ago. Whew time flies.
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u/Higgnkfe Atlanta Braves Dec 08 '17
- Vladimir Guerrero
- Trevor Hoffman
- Andruw Jones
- Chipper Jones
- Larry Walker
- Fred McGriff
- Mike Mussina
- Curt Schilling
- Billy Wagner
- Jim Thome
My 10 man. I wouldn't vote for players associated with/accused of taking steroids.
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u/RotatableSignpost World Baseball Classic Dec 10 '17
Sosa was never a confirmed steroid user
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u/Higgnkfe Atlanta Braves Dec 10 '17
Wasn't he named having tested positive in 2003?
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u/RotatableSignpost World Baseball Classic Dec 10 '17 edited Dec 10 '17
He was named in an NYT article which cited anonymous sources. He was not in any official investigation (e.g. Mitchell Report) or other scandals that have come out (e.g. Biogenesis). David Ortiz for example was also mentioned in that same NYT article but not anywhere else - most people consider him clean.
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u/NotAYuropean San Francisco Giants Dec 08 '17
Barry. Bonds.
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u/Mazzocchi Forget about you long enough to forget why I needed to... Dec 09 '17
Here's another hit:
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u/the_fuzzy_stoner New York Mets Dec 08 '17
I think he makes it this year. Something tells me enough people are over it and he's just the best player on the ballot by A LOT
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Dec 08 '17
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u/MostMirror Chicago Cubs Dec 08 '17
Barry Bonds was a Hall of Famer before steroids. And nobody is drugging themselves up in today’s game, so I’m not sure what you are talking about.
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u/Acidline303 Cleveland Guardians Dec 11 '17
That's what makes it almost worse. Before he sat in that all-star dugout creaming his pants at McGwire's moonshots, he was already well on a path to being the greatest 5-tool player in baseball history. Yes, even better than his godfather. He could have stayed that course, retired when his body gave out naturally at 37, and walked in a unanimous first ballot HOFer.
But he absolutely had to be remembered for home runs.
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u/A_few_prawns_short Yomiuri Giants Dec 12 '17
Inner circle Hall of Famers' bodies don't give out that early. Bonds would have played into his 40s regardless. Weird that you think both that Bonds wouldn't have made it past 37 and that he was better than Mays, who led the league in OBP at 40.
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u/Acidline303 Cleveland Guardians Dec 12 '17 edited Dec 12 '17
Don't be so damn literal. I said 37 because thats a good indicator of when most players sharp decline is well in effect. Maybe he'd have played productive baseball to 42, maybe he'd have shattered his ankle at the age of 35 sliding into second because he was still fast enough to steal a bunch of bases.
He certainly wouldnt have been padding an extra 170+ home runs after that mark without some "scientifically assisted recovery"
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u/A_few_prawns_short Yomiuri Giants Dec 12 '17
OK. I have seen some people actually say he wouldn't have played into his 40s wthout PEDs.
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Dec 09 '17
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u/MostMirror Chicago Cubs Dec 09 '17
Players have always used drugs to get an unfair advantage. Amphetamines were rampant back in the old days. Why should we only punish the steroid era?
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Dec 09 '17
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u/MostMirror Chicago Cubs Dec 09 '17
So when players were illegally taking amphetamines they were not trying to get an edge? Comparing amphetamines to Tylenol is laughable.
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Dec 09 '17
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u/MostMirror Chicago Cubs Dec 09 '17
That is correct. They don't. But does that mean guys on greenies get a pass but juicers don't?
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Dec 10 '17
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u/MostMirror Chicago Cubs Dec 10 '17
Why is that? In the baseball world, they were both illegally used to get an edge.
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u/Tyrion_Bannedister Athletics Dec 09 '17
Hall of Fame is a museum for the greatest of the sport. That museum is diminished by playing moral police.
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Dec 09 '17
This is how I feel. I had no strong feelings on Bonds but after going back and really taking a hard look at his stats the dude was a hall of fame caliber player before the steroid era.
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Dec 09 '17
One thing I think many people forget when discussing Bonds is his domestic violence history: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Sun-Bonds-Tells-Court-Barry-Beat-Her-Often-3018220.php
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u/jlatto Texas Rangers Dec 09 '17
Eh, there are woman abusers in the hall. Im fucking tired of having this argument. I hate that one day Bonds and Clemens may be in the hall of fame. But at some point I'm like I don't care anymore. If they get voted in I'll have no grudge. I'm just exhausted At least in like 5-10 years we'll be passed all this shit.
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u/Hugo_Hackenbush Colorado Rockies • Minnesota Twins Dec 09 '17
I can't make you all vote for Larry Walker, but I can tell you you're out of your goddamn mind if you don't think he's a Hall of Famer.
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u/Keith_Jackson_Fumble San Francisco Giants Dec 10 '17 edited Dec 10 '17
The entire issue of Walker's candidacy surrounds the effect of his home environs. In Coors Field, throughout his entire career, he amassed a line of .381/.462/.710 in 2501 plate appearances (some of those came as a visiting player). Like most players, he didn't hit as well on the road, except the drop off from Coors was much more pronounced. He was every bit of a Hall of Famer at home, and still a very good player on the road. But his career slash line of .313/.400/.565 would become .289/.373./.522 in neutral run environments . Still very good, mind you and he did steal more than 200 bases. And by all measures a very good defensive outfielder. The entire issue surrounds the question had Walker played his entire career in Montreal, St. Louis, San Francisco or Los Angeles, would he still be in the HoF conversation?
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u/Hugo_Hackenbush Colorado Rockies • Minnesota Twins Dec 10 '17
Player A: .272/.355/.505, 35.7 HR per 162 games, 28.8 2B/162, 10.5 SB/162
Player B: .278/.370/.498, 27.1 HR/162, 32.8 2B/162, 17.6 SB/162
A is Ken Griffey Jr.'s career road numbers. B is Walker on the road. And the numbers get even better if you just look at non-Coors because Larry Walker played only 30% of his career games at Coors Field/Mile High Stadium.
His career OPS+ of 141 is better than Griffey's. Walker played nearly 700 fewer career games, but if you scale their career WARs to per 162 games, Walker has Griffey beat 5.9 to 5.07.
Defensively his range and glove were arguably the best among his peers in RF. Unfortunately the metrics Fangraphs uses only go back far enough to catch the very end of his career, yet even at the end he still had a stronger arm than Vlad Guerrero.
The top 15 right fielders of all time by JAWS: HOF, HOF, HOF, HOF, HOF, HOF, HOF, HOF, HOF, Walker, HOF, HOF, Shoeless Joe, HOF, Dwight Evans.
Walker is not only a clear cut Hall of Famer, adding him would actually raise the level of what would be an average HOF player.
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u/Keith_Jackson_Fumble San Francisco Giants Dec 12 '17 edited Dec 12 '17
I think the Griffey comparison isn't apples-to-apples. If we just take the years their careers overlapped, Griffey averaged 40+ HRs per 162 games. But he suffered some terrible injuries along the way and several years came nowhere close to 150 games. But all that is unimportant. Personally, I support Walker's candidacy. He wasn't a purely home run hitter. He was a great all-around player. Baseball could use more of those. Watching slow guys hit home runs is dull. Give me a few more guys who can draw walks, steal bases, stretch singles into doubles and doubles into triples. Who can play the outfield and track down a long fly ball or keep a runner from considering rounding third on a sharp single. Walker checks many of the boxes. It isn't his fault he played during an era where offense became wholly out-of-whack, where steroids elevated the play of so many of his contemporaries. Walker was a great player.
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u/Hugo_Hackenbush Colorado Rockies • Minnesota Twins Dec 12 '17
Walker had a lot of injury plagued years too, though. He got to 150 games only once in his career (the MVP year) and had five seasons of 120 or less, including three where he didn't even play in 90. That's part of the reason he wasn't able to amass the counting stats people look for.
It's also led to some speculation that playing in Denver may negatively affect a player's durability in some way. We don't have any solid evidence that it does and if so why, but the anecdotal evidence is the history of injuries to Walker, Helton, Tulo and CarGo.
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u/Keith_Jackson_Fumble San Francisco Giants Dec 12 '17
Yeah, Walker was hurt a lot. But watching a hurt Walker was still better than watching Dante Bichette roam the outfield later in his carer. That guy could hit but couldn't field much.
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u/CanadianFalcon Toronto Blue Jays Dec 12 '17
WAR is context-neutral. By WAR, Walker was a better player than Man-Ram.
Here's a list of career bWAR leaders not in the Hall of Fame, excluding "suspected" steroid users and players who have not yet been eligible for a Hall of Fame vote:
1) Mike Mussina, 83.0
2) Curt Schilling, 79.9
3) Jim McCormick, 75.8 (played from 1878-1887)
4) Bill Dahlen, 75.2 (played from 1891-1911)
5) Lou Whitaker, 74.9
6) Larry Walker, 72.6See that list? That list is the who's who of people who should be in the Hall of Fame. You know who else is right by Walker on this list? Thome, at 72.9, and Jeter at 71.8. People below Walker? Trammell, 70.4; Raines, 69.1; Edgar, 68.3, among many other Hall of Famers and should-be Hall of Famers.
I'm not saying that WAR should be the end-all and be-all of Hall of Fame voting. But if people are going to ignore Walker's stats because they think his stats are inflated, then why wouldn't people use a tool that deliberately un-inflates his stats? Because by that tool, Walker is one of the biggest Hall of Fame snubs alive.
People have over-corrected Walker's stats, and have lowered them too far. It's easy to extrapolate Walker's road splits and say that's how he'd have hit had he played anywhere else, but that ignores the fact that most players have better home splits than road splits, due to familiarity with their home park and fan support. That also ignores the fact that the NL West was famous for its pitcher parks, like San Diego and San Francisco, which would have artificially lowered his road splits.
People also mostly ignore his excellent defense. Walker should be in for sure.
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u/Keith_Jackson_Fumble San Francisco Giants Dec 12 '17 edited Dec 12 '17
I am glad there is recognition of the value of Lou Whitaker. He and Trammel both are deserving of enshrinement. Trammel finally got the call, albeit belated. I have no objection to Walker's induction. Rather, my only question was whether or not his contribution was made all the greater by playing in a ballpark and era of extreme offense. I grew up during an era when few players laid claim to the 30-home threshold. Now, it seems commonplace.. The gaudy offensive stats of many players makes the achievements of past players seem less impressive. And it is only getting worse. Ballparks feel smaller than ever, and this past season was at times, like watching some beer softball league with everyone swinging for the fences. Strikeout, Strikeout, walk, Home Run, strikeout. But that's a subject for another day. You have my vote.
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Dec 08 '17
I accidentally voted blank:^(
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u/SouthernDerpfornia California Angels Dec 08 '17
Vote again and I will remove the first one
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Dec 08 '17
Thank you! :)
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u/Metsareawesome5 New York Mets Dec 08 '17
Whom did you vote for mr emo?
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Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
My top picks where Jim Thome, Trevor Hoffman, and Chipper Jones, I voted for more but those are the ones who I think have the best chance this year :)
Who did you vote for mr Mets?
Edit: I also voted for Johan
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Dec 08 '17
Chipper, Thome, Bonds, Clemens, Ramirez, Hoffman, Wagner, Mussina, Edgar, Walker
Was hard not voting for Vlad but that’s the backlog kicking in.
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u/VRomero32 New York Yankees Dec 09 '17
Will Voters ever forgive Pedro Cerrano for the whole Jobu scandal?
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u/VStarffin Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 08 '17
I'm generally a small hall guy. My ballot is:
- Vladimir Guererro
- Chipper Jones
- Edgar Martinez
- Mike Mussina
- Jim Thome
That be it.
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u/jfoster15 Colorado Rockies Dec 08 '17
Why Vlad over Larry if you're a small hall guy? Larry was better.
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u/Hugo_Hackenbush Colorado Rockies • Minnesota Twins Dec 09 '17
Voting for Vlad but not Walker is indefensible when Walker was better in nearly every way.
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/if-you-vote-for-vlad-you-have-to-vote-for-walker/
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u/Sheepies123 New York Mets • Miami Marlins Dec 08 '17
If you’re a small hall guy i completely understand this ballot, my one thing is though if you say Mussina you have to say Schilling too imo.
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u/VStarffin Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 08 '17
I wouldn't vote for Schilling because he's a garbage human and I am one of the (admittedly few) people who think that should be taken into account.
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u/RightBack2 Baltimore Orioles Dec 08 '17
You're voting for the baseball HOF not governor.
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u/VStarffin Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 08 '17
I'd rather vote for a piece of shit for Governor than the HOF.
The HOF is literally a meaningless honor. It has no practical impact. It's an award purely to put someone on a pedastal. I'm not going to voluntarily do that for a garbage person.
A governor can at least make good policy choices even if he's an asshole.
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u/Arthur___Dent Seattle Mariners Dec 11 '17
The guidelines for HoF allow for people to take a person's character into account.
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u/Sheepies123 New York Mets • Miami Marlins Dec 08 '17
That’s fair I guess. I don’t think Schilling is as bad as some people say he is. He does a lot of charity work and a few objectionable political views is not enough to take away from he great career.
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u/LEGOslayer Houston Astros Dec 09 '17
Bonds:
With Selig in I have no qualms about the steroid era guys getting in, however those who did not(or were not suspected to) juice should get priority. Barry is one of the greatest players of all time. There are a lot of people whose only knowledge of baseball is his name.
Clemens:
Basically the same argument for Bonds but as a pitcher. He is simply one of the greatest ever.
Vlad:
The last Expos great is someone who Sabermetrics doesn't tell the entire story of. Bobby Abreu put up slightly more WAR in his career compared to Vlad, and no one is pushing for his induction. Watching Vlad play was something else. His laser beam throws from right and ability to hit basically any baseball thrown at him were something to marvel at.
Hoffman:
The second greatest reliever by counting stats, being a reliable closer for 15 years is Hall-worthy all on its own. On top of that he was the face of the Padres for an entire decade after Tony Gwynn retired. 14th all time in ERA+ and 601 saves underscores a career of late inning dominance and reliability.
Chipper:
One of the greatest third basemen to ever play the game. Played with the Braves for 19 seasons. Not much more needs to be said. He was a surefire first ballot before he even decided to retire.
Edgar:
The Mariners broke team protocol by retiring his number before he had even been inducted, showing just how beloved and valuable he was to the team. The wikipedia article for the DH position has his picture on it and the award for the best DH each year bears his name. He was a better player than David Ortiz who is a likely first ballot inductee. That he hasn't already made it in just clogs the ballot further and hampers the already soggy reputation of the BBWAA.
Mussina:
Bad timing is probably the only reason he's not already in the Hall. Sandwiching his tenure as a Yankee between WS teams and spending his entire career in the toughest division during the most hitter friendly era while staying clean make his traditional numbers look less impressive. However 83 WAR and a reputation for being one of the very best should put him in eventually.
Schilling:
Threatening journalist lives is not a smart way to go about advocating your HOF candidacy. However 80 WAR, multiple rings and a famous moment in a historical World Series should overcome his big stupid mouth.
Thome:
One of the scariest bats in an era of scary bats and clean as a whistle in an era of steroids, the only reason he wouldn't make it in on his first year of eligibility would be due to playing for 5 different teams for the latter half of his career or dominating in a quiet fashion. Also known for being one of the nicest players in the game, Thome is a no-brainer.
Larry:
The first face of the Rockies, and still arguably its best player, Larry is yet another example of someone on this list who should have been inducted years ago. WRC+ and OPS+ are both park adjusted stats and Larry is beyond excellent in both.
Those I would have voted for if the ballot wasn't so clogged
Andruw - Amazing defensive CF
Kent - Probably Hall of Very Good but was a top 2B in his day
McGriff - In a steroid-free era his stats would stick out a lot more
Manny - Should be in the Hall with Bonds and Clemens but needs to wait his turn due to roids
Rolen - Aside from Beltre and Chipper, hes the best 3B not in the Hall by JAWS
Johan - The Koufax argument minus rings. He was one of the best ever for a sustained period long enough to know it wasn't a fluke.
Sheffield - Like Kent, probably better as a Hall of Very Good, but only barely so.
Sosa - Baseball may not have made it to where it is now without him and McGwire. That alone should be enough. The BBWAA sure didn't mind cashing the checks all the articles on the 98 home run race brought em.
Vizquel - 45 WAR in 24 seasons isn't great, but like Vlad, he was awesome to watch play.
Wagner - I'm glad reading around that it's not just the homer in me that wants to see him in the Hall. He was absolutely lights out in his heyday and I always knew as a kid the Astros were going to win once he came out.
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u/Sheepies123 New York Mets • Miami Marlins Dec 08 '17
For me:
Regular - Bonds, Clemens, Guerrero, Hoffman, Chipper, Edgar Martinez, Mussina, Schilling, Thome, Walker
Unlimited - +Santana, Wagner, Manny
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u/Clemenx00 New York Mets Dec 08 '17
Bonds, Clemens, Edgar, Vlad, Waker, Chipper, Schilling, Moose, Thome, Rolen.
I went HAM on the no limit ballot after realizing that I don't care that much aobut the hof.
Omar, Andruw, Kent, Mcgriff, Sammy, Manny, Hoffman, Johan, Sheff.
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u/omgimbrian San Francisco Giants Dec 08 '17
Bonds, Clemens, Guerrero, Hoffman, C. Jones, Martinez, Mussina, Schilling, Thome, Wagner
I see the Steroid Era as just that: purely an era. Baseball has all sorts of things that changed the game over periods of time, and that was one of those times. I do hold it against those who were actually suspended when baseball decided to enforce rules against PED's, hence no Manny.
I feel like everyone is pretty self-explanatory with Wagner being the only exception. I just can't put Hoffman on the ballot without Wagner. Wagner was so much more dominant of a force than Hoffman, and while the former didn't have the saves numbers or the longevity of the latter, but he still had a relatively long career and was one of the scariest relievers in baseball in that time.
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u/100MPHFastball Dec 09 '17
10 man ballot:
- Barry Bonds
- Roger Clemens
- Vladimir Guerrero
- Chipper Jones
- Edgar Martinez
- Mike Mussina
- Scott Rolen
- Curt Schilling
- Jim Thome
- Larry Walker
Next Two In:
- Fred McGriff
- Billy Wagner
Worth Discussion, But The Ballot Is So Stacked:
- Trevor Hoffman
- Andruw Jones
- Johan Santana
- Manny Ramirez
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u/wikipediareader Philadelphia Phillies Dec 09 '17
I can't vote for Moyer and Schilling five times each?
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Dec 09 '17
My 10: Bonds, Clemens, Vladi, Chipper Jones, Edgar Martinez, Schilling, Sosa, Sheffield, Thome, and Walker.
Threw in Hoffman, Huff, Kent, Matsui, Mussina, Manny, Santana, Rolan, Andruw Jones in the unlimited
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Dec 11 '17
When will results be posted?
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u/CanadianFalcon Toronto Blue Jays Dec 12 '17
I guess I'll publicize my ballot.
Mussina, Schilling, Vlad, Edgar, and Walker as the "first-ballot no-doubters." (I don't understand why any of those five was not a first ballot.)
Chipper Jones and Thome as the real first ballot peoples.
Hoffman to get him off the ballot, since he had 74% last year and the ballot needs unclogging.
Johan Santana. He doesn't have it on longevity, and therefore he wouldn't have it on WAR or JAWS either, but I figure his peak was good enough that I'll induct him on peak alone. I doubt he'll make it to 5%, so this is my token appreciation of his talent.
I don't remember who I voted for in 10th. It didn't make sense to vote for one steroid guy and not the others, so I went with the 10th-best non-steroid guy. I think I went with Rolen, but I probably considered Andruw Jones. In an unlimited ballot I'd have voted both in.
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u/thekidfromyesterday Atlanta Braves Dec 12 '17
I voted for Vlad, Hoffman, Andruw, Chipper, Edgar, Mussina, Rolen, Thome, Wagner, Walker
I was very conflicted with PED users. I previously was adamant against them being in the hall however, my stance has softened. I ultimately voted for guys who I believe were steroid free.
I left out Kent by a hair.
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Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
I did some research on some guys I was less familiar with. I'll have to admit Larry Walker surprised me, I used to be annoyed at people complaining that he's not in, but after really reviewing him I'd have to say they're right. Also, don't crucify me but I didn't vote for Edgar. Pretty similar to Walker offensively but Walker was actually a good defender even when he was older and was a plus baserunner. I think that makes up for the edge Edgar had over him with the bat.
EDIT:
My full ballot:
Bonds
Clemens
Chipper
Mussina
Rolen
Schilling
Thome
Walker
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u/Modders14 Chicago White Sox Dec 09 '17
Voters might be a little iffy on Walker because his stats got a massive boost from getting to play in the pre-humidor Coors Field.
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u/Hugo_Hackenbush Colorado Rockies • Minnesota Twins Dec 10 '17
He played only 30% of his career games in Denver. And his road numbers are very comparable to Griffey's road numbers.
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u/Thrust-bot California Angels Dec 08 '17
Edgar, Mussina, Bonds, Clemens, Vlad, Hoffman, Wagner, Schilling, Chipper and Thome, in no order, for me
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u/crabcakesandfootball New York Yankees Dec 08 '17
Same but replace the closers with Walker and Manny.
I'm not sure how one could vote for Vlad but not Walker.
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u/the_fuzzy_stoner New York Mets Dec 08 '17
Manny should never get in. Got caught cheating well afyer it was legal.
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u/Mazzocchi Forget about you long enough to forget why I needed to... Dec 09 '17
Here's mr mazz's steaming hot take of a ballot:
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Trevor Hoffman
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Billy Wagner
I know I'm obviously biased, but this is a solid ballot
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u/shakeweight69 Houston Astros Dec 09 '17
This ballot is basically the natty virgin vs the roided chad
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u/Mispelling Walgreens Dec 08 '17
My 10-person ballot: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mike Mussina, Manny Ramirez, Curt Schilling, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, Billy Wagner.
Yes, I'm the dick that is preventing people from getting in unanimously, but I had to leave some people off in order to get some other people votes (particularly those nearing the end of their ballot runs/in danger of falling off). I am counting on you fellow voters to get some of the more obvious ones in.
Heckle away.
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Dec 08 '17
I think that's the best reason not to vote for those guys. Who gives a shit if it's unanimous?
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u/rockiesfan4ever Dinger Dec 09 '17
If you're trying to vote for people who are near the end of their ballot why not vote for Walker?
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Dec 08 '17
[deleted]
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u/VStarffin Los Angeles Dodgers Dec 08 '17
Actually supposed to put in your Social Securtity number and main credit card. It then runs through a hash to determine your Reddit username. Totally secure.
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u/_86_ Boston Red Sox • Sickos Dec 08 '17
Clemens, Bonds, Rolen, Schilling, Guerrero, Walker, Chipper, Martinez, Mussina, Thome
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u/whatsthehappenstance Minnesota Twins Dec 08 '17
Boy did I get excited when I saw AUBREY HUFF on the ballot.
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u/Ryuuken1789 New York Mets Dec 08 '17
My standard ballot: Bonds, Guerrero, Mussina, Schilling, Walker, Edgar, Clemens, Chipper, Rolen, Thome
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u/SpaceCityAg Houston Astros Dec 09 '17
I hate steroids but I loved Clemens as an Astro and if I vote for him I have to vote for Bonds as well.
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u/Troutmaggedon Los Angeles Angels Dec 09 '17
I kept Barroid and Clemens out because of foods but voted in Manny because Manny was so damn entertaining. Fade my ballot fam.
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u/ben1204 New York Yankees Dec 09 '17
Billy Wagner and Trevor Hoffman in. I am a patron of the relievers.
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Dec 10 '17
I feel sort of self conscious about my limited ballot but here it is:
Bonds, Clemens, Hoffman, A. Jones, C. Jones, Martinez, Mussina, Rolen, Thome, Walker.
Not sure why I voted for Andruw Jones, really. Kind of hot take, especially over Wagner. Mussina over Schilling because I can't rationalize picking Schilling, even though Schilling is probably a better pitcher. Everything else seems pretty straight forward.
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u/Hold_my_Dirk Cleveland Guardians Dec 11 '17
I want a veterans committee mock so I can vote in Kenny
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u/royleekx Arizona Diamondbacks Dec 12 '17
Did Jorge Posada fall off the ballot? Or did I somehow miss his name?
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u/Hurtya Houston Astros Jan 17 '18
gah I missed this somehow :(
[I had assumed it would be during the r/baseball "hall of fame discussions" time period of the offseason schedule.]
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u/H1N1777 Los Angeles Angels Dec 09 '17
Probably unpopular opinion but Pete Rose should be in the hall.
Not excusing what he did whatsoever but he’s certainly in the top 4 greatest hitters ever with Williams, Gwynn and Bonds.
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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '17
If I submit a blank ballot, will the mods publicly shame me?