r/atari8bit • u/Patient-Concert-5935 • 6d ago
800xl with keyboard coming!
https://youtu.be/u3qY3MU7Niw?is=QLxxWYw1vXXz7PqmTake my money!
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u/react-dnb 6d ago
This looks cool but man I wish it was the 130xe. That is what I had growing up.
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u/raymate 6d ago
Still got my 130XE the styling š
I started with 600XL but no longer have it. So this 800XL Im sorta interested in.
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u/react-dnb 6d ago
I loved that thing. I learned so much on it. Still remember dialing into a local BBS and posting my first comment in a message board. Hogging the phone lines all night downloading games. Figuring out how to put a bunch of games on one disk and creating a menu to select which game. Copying BASIC programs out of magazines and then completely changing them around. lol. Fun times.
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u/raymate 6d ago
You basically described my childhood š
I had two (still have) 1050 floppy drives both moded with happy chips. Cassette deck, 1020 plotter and graphics tablets. And better not forget the Atari roller ball for missile command.
Lol forgot all about BBS i didnt get to that status until I went to Mac few years latter after my Atari ST. On the Mac i got my first 28.8k modem (cant forget that .8 lol)
Fun times. I become a BASIC expert as did we all. The Atari ST never grabbed me like the 8-bit did just used that for the odd game and midi
Nowadays I tinker with Raspberry Pis and Python.
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u/react-dnb 6d ago
oh yea I had the cassette deck but man was that thing SLOOOOOOOW. ha ha. And the plotter! I dont know why I was so facinated by the plotter. Watching those little pens draw was amazing.
And yea, local BBSs. I started on a 300 baud modem and before we sold the Atari (we already had a 486 by then) I had a 56k modem on that thing that was blazing fast for the times!
I once tried writing a game in BASIC which was so easy compared to today since the pixels were basically 1:1! I had plotter paper on my wall mapping out the board. I think I got to 3 rooms before I put it away. Just a little stick figure type thing but I got the collision detection down and everything. Was a lot of fun learning.2
u/raymate 6d ago edited 6d ago
I love the plotter. I made a basic program it would take a high res image mode 8 which you could
Load an image and plot that to the 1020. It actually got featured in New Atari User as a type in program for people to use. Need to find the issue as my memory is a bit fuzzy now.Edit. Found issue. It was featured in āNew Atari User - Issue 47ā
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u/Ag0nizer 6d ago edited 6d ago
What are it's spec? I couldn't find anything on the web site. Like, how much memory is installed, what cpu/asic chips are in there, compatibility. Looks promising, anyway. Looking forward to it. Also looking forward to https://revive-machines.com/ and would like to know if this has been canceled.
Edit: Typo
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u/Admirable-Chemical77 6d ago
A functional sip port would have been nice some of us still have disk drives
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u/samspock 6d ago
And an expansion bus so I can use my ICD MIO. Got some old files on a hard drive I would like to recover.
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u/GodGangstersGuineas 10h ago
I would LOVE a 1450XLD with functional ports and USB capabilities. Alas
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u/PolloCool 6d ago
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u/John_from_ne_il 6d ago
They are showing slightly different details than Atari.com - looks like 3 USB ports on the right, originally the joystick ports. NOTHING about original joystick, SIO or PBI.
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u/mcpierceaim 6d ago
I wish Atari would see the opportunity Peri Fractic gave to the Commodore community and would put out a fully compatible FPGA machine in an authentic feeling case. Iād kill for that.
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u/snikle 6d ago
I have wanted to revisit Star Raiders in an authentic 1983 way for agesā¦ anybody know what Star Raiders II is, exactly?
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u/Tiasmo-Bertjayd 6d ago
The official Star Raiders II was actually a new game based on the movie āThe Last Starfighterā. Some of the key differences from Star Raiders include:
- Flight is scrolling over a 2-D star field rather than through simulated 3-D space
- Instead of a grid of sectors on a galactic map, you travel between the planets of two star systems
- Refuel / repair is managed by flying into the sun rather than docking at a star base
- Enemy ships come at you in pre-determined waves rather than a random assortment
The author of the original Star Raiders had been working on a true sequel, but Atari was undergoing downsizing before it could be released and it remained buried for a while until 2015 when the development documentation and unfinished code was posted to the Internet Archive.
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u/phlod 6d ago
Refuel / repair is managed by flying into the sun rather than docking at a star base
Not true. You still dock at star bases to repair and refuel.
What you might be thinking of is that you can travel to a star, and if you're very fast, use it to refuel and hyperspace out before you blow up. But it certainly doesn't repair your ship!
It's for if you end up low on fuel and too far from a base to make it. I played the game a lot when I was a kid and only had to do it like twice.
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u/dog_cow 6d ago
Can you please elaborate on?: Flight is scrolling over a 2-D star field rather than through simulated 3-D space
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u/Tiasmo-Bertjayd 4d ago
In the original Star Raiders, the star field is made up by a fixed number of stars each of which has X, Y, and Z coordinates relative to your ship. When you move the joystick left or right it rotates their Y coordinates, moving up or down rotates their Z coordinates, and flying forward shifts their X coordinates; enemy ships likewise are tracked by XYZ coordinates. When stars / objects are plotted, the program does a 2-D projection of their 3-D position onto the screen plane.
In Star Raiders II the stars are tracked similarly when youāre in outer space, but when flying over a planet or star the behavior of the joystick up and down control is changed to moving the ship forward or back, effectively removing one dimension from your freedom of movement. In addition the rendering of the background starscape over a planet is simple 2-D scrolling, and the planet surface is the same 2-D scrolling but reversed in the Y direction. In both cases the position of enemy ships is mainly in a 2-D plane, with the fly fightersā distance simulated by changing their sprite size but destroyers and command ships are always at a fixed distance away.
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u/raymate 6d ago
Itās more appealing to me than the last one.
Just wish it has proper joystick ports
The main pull is keyboard, it runs basic and cart slot.
I started with 600XL so this recreation I do like. Need to wait for reviews. Itās also going to be expensive in CAD. If it had FPGA I would pre order. But I donāt think it does. So we shall see.
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u/Star-Detonator 6d ago
Rest assured, this will not be FPGA-based.
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u/CornStrategy 6d ago
I wonder what ever happened to the RM 800XL, the FPGA-based recreation of the 800XL. Atari had sent a cease-and-desist letter to the Polish developer a few years ago. I'd thought that Atari would perhaps work with the developer to finish the product under the Atari name.
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u/LakeSun 6d ago
All the new retro computers I've seen are FPGA based.
Even the new Amiga, they're not re producing the GTIA and POKEY chips.
Also, for the cart slot to be able to handle 800 and 5200 carts, seems like it's got to have some different FPGA solutions.
?
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u/dog_cow 6d ago
If youāre referring to The A1200, thatās not FPGA based.Ā
The way I understand how the software emulation machines work is they see the cartridge and dump the data on local storage before execution. Not read it 1:1.Ā
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u/LakeSun 6d ago
Ok, The THEA1200 is an ARM chip running emulation, so it can emulate a number of configurations. There's no Motorola 68020 inside.
So, the Atari XL could also be doing the same thing.
But, it's also possible to do the whole Atari 800 hardware layout on an FPGA chip. But, maybe that's not as flexible actually. I wonder if they copied the Altirra emulator, which seems to be the most heavily worked on.
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u/dog_cow 6d ago
I'd say the main reason neither the A1200 or the 800XL are using FPGA is because of it's high cost. I don't think it's because ARM works better.
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u/LakeSun 6d ago
The THEA1200 web site...
Inside, THEA1200 uses ARM hardware running Linux. Emulation handles the Amiga side. The video points to a modified Amiberry build, with past support noted from Cloanto and the Amiga Forever team.
So, there is an ARM chip, running Linux, with this AmiBerry Library to do the emulation?
Interesting.
So, if Retro did the design, they probably also went with an ARM/Linux, then Emulation.
Which might mean we can speed up Atari Logo!
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u/LakeSun 6d ago edited 6d ago
To confuse matters more, the Commodore eu site says it is running on an FPGA package.
So, they're wrong.
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u/dog_cow 6d ago
Can you help meĀ understand what Commodore has to do with The A1200?
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u/LakeSun 5d ago
Look up the THEA1200.
The A1200 is a "modern" Amiga Retro new game and computer system. Commodore owned the Amiga brand. I think there has been a clearing up of rights now.
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u/Star-Detonator 6d ago
I am very curious if the brushed metal trim will actually be brushed metal, or if it will be silver plastic instead. I'm betting it will be plastic.
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u/pdx74 5d ago
Just got back from the Portland Retro Game Expo, where they have a demo unit on display. Got to mess with it for just a minute or two. The keyboard felt pretty nice to me, and I was told the joystick was reengineered to minimize some of the issues people had with the one bundled with the 400 Mini. Build quality seemed on point. I'm very tempted.
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u/logicalvue 6d ago
Says it has BASIC-built in, but can it load disk images and boot into DOS to function as an actual 8-bit? Otherwise, having that fancy keyboard seems like a waste.
Pre-order price is $220.
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u/Tiasmo-Bertjayd 6d ago
From the web site: āLoad your own games and software from USB flash drives with cartridge, disk and cassette image support.ā
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u/Samhain_69 6d ago edited 5d ago
Ouch! Costs more than the A1200? That's a bit disappointing.
I couldn't resist getting a the400 mini, so getting this would amount to gaining an authentic keyboard, cartridge slot and apparently improved joystick.
Still tempting, but not quite "take my money" for me...
EDIT: I think I understand the price now. There is a cartridge slot and the capability to pull the ROM into memory to run it - the A1200 didn't need that since there is no cartridge slot. Also, they actually splurged for a mechanical keyboard, which isn't cheap. So even though an emulated 8-bit Atari seems much less advanced than an emulated Amiga, there are valid reasons that it's more expensive. Kind of wish the A1200 had a mechanical keyboard though, that system really deserves it.
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u/Plinth_857 6d ago
Getting a better joystick would be almost enough for me. I have 3 old working CX-40ās and a Hyperkin that I would have loved to use with the Atari 400 mini, but Iām too dumb to figure out.
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u/Todd6060 6d ago edited 6d ago
Many have said the joystick that came with THE400 Mini is terrible and this one appears to be the same except a different color
Edit: Looks like the Retro Games website says the joystick has been "refined" so hopefully they fixed the issues
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u/Admirable-Chemical77 6d ago
Joystick won't need all the additional functions with a functioning keyboard
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u/Todd6060 6d ago
The main problem is that it registers corners when you press straight left or right on the stick. Retro Games' response was don't press so hard, but that's not a real solution for most people. Second problem is some users accidentally press the extra buttons. The second problem could possibly be mitigated by un-mapping the extra buttons and using the keyboard instead like you said. But they need to modify the hardware to fix the first problem.
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u/Samhain_69 6d ago
I got the400mini expecting and prepared to disassemble the joystick and add a small, adhesive silicone bumper to fix the first issue, as I read about on the internet. I was somewhat pleasantly surprised that it least for me, the first problem was rare and tolerable.
The second problem, however, was a big issue. Any game I really got into and played with intensity, I ended up hitting an unintended button and messing up the game. If I wanted to spend significant time playing, I would indeed have to find a solution - likely mapping the buttons I hit accidentally to do nothing. It would be less convenient to use, but better than messing up every game when it gets really intense.
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u/Admirable-Chemical77 6d ago
Hopefully we can use old2600 joysticks
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u/Samhain_69 6d ago
Not easily, as there are no old 2600 joystick ports. You would need some kind of home-made USB adapter for old 2600 joysticks. Not sure if those already exist or not.
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u/droid_mike 6d ago
Yeah, I'm going to probably wait for the price to come down... Which it likely will will, has that so it happens to all the Atari products eventually, but this is still pretty cool. Has my original hardware ages, it's nice to have options that will last through time. I'm guessing it's an emulator, on like the Commodore 64 ultimate which is an fpga hardware clone.
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u/Altruistic-Fox4625 6d ago
I would definitely buy an Atari 8-bit FPGA clone but not something like this.
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u/achilles_cat 6d ago
You'll want to follow the RM 800XL project then (if that ever gets released.)
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u/LakeSun 6d ago
They got cease-and-Desist'd by Atari
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u/achilles_cat 6d ago
I thought they just had to change the name, is the entire project dead now?
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u/LakeSun 6d ago
Hopefully, you're right.
But, they've been dragging this thing on for years.
Maybe it was too technical for them.
Lots of debugging if you add features.
???
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u/achilles_cat 6d ago
Yeah I'm more worried about that, that they bit off more than they can chew, but what they demoed earlier this year on their fb page looked pretty good.
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u/Hungry_Equipment_658 6d ago
There are two other projects on the horizon (other than RM 800XL)! One is Project Tonnere, now to be called MegaXE, the successor to the awesome EclaireXL by foft on AA. The other is Atari-XT, by Spaced Cowboy on AA.
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u/Shot-Needleworker-65 6d ago
They show Crime Busters in the promotional materials. Does that mean it has lightgun support? I kind of doubt it.
Also having the centipede on there without trackball support is a crime. A CRIME I SAY.
(pre-ordered anyways)
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u/CrystalInTheforest 6d ago
This looks cool AF. I hope it has an SIO port for original accessories and modern mods.
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u/Mobile-Ad-494 6d ago
Could this be a 1 on 1 replacement for my 800xl and fujinet or or would this be more like a software based emulator with a cart interface but lacking basic where one can peek and poke at will?
I'm assuming sio is out of the question.
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u/Practical-Promise-44 6d ago
No, it's emulation. Probably the same as used on THE400 mini, which is awful. But with a cart dumper like the 2600+
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u/Shot-Needleworker-65 6d ago
What is wrong with The400 emulation? I haven't messed with it but I thought A8 emulation was very mature at this point.
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u/Practical-Promise-44 6d ago
It laggy, the gui sucks, you can't add games directly to the carousel, the joystick is terrible....... I really wanted to live it but it's just not good enough for me.
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u/Karma_1969 6d ago
You're conflating the interface with the emulation. The interface has ups and downs. The emulation is near flawless.
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u/Practical-Promise-44 6d ago
The l. a. g. Is real
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u/Karma_1969 6d ago
During gameplay? I don't notice any lag. To note, I don't use their joystick, I use an 8BitDo Pro plugged in via USB. No lag for me.
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u/Practical-Promise-44 6d ago
Yes, in game. My TV is in game mode. I compared it by playing the same game on my Sophia 2 modded 600xl and MiSTer FPGA. The lag is real. I'm pleased you don't notice the problem, but unfortunately I do. Like I said I'm an Atari fan, I own over 30 Atari consoles and computers but for me the 400mini just sucks.
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u/Karma_1969 6d ago
I don't doubt that you experience lag, but I don't, and my point is that something else is causing your lag, The400 itself isn't causing that. You blamed "the emulation"; that's not the issue with your setup.
And if you own all those Ataris, why do you care about The400 anyway? I'm an Atari fan too, why else would I be in this sub? OG Atarian since 1979, and I still have my original consoles and computers, hooked up even. I know how these games feel and have direct comparisons, and The400 replicates the experience perfectly.
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u/Practical-Promise-44 5d ago
Ok, well we'll have to just agree to disagree. And why do you care about the 400 with all those consoles. If I'm using the same TV on the same settings with the same HDMI connection and I only see and feel lag on the 400 the only difference is the console.
Keep enjoying yours, mine gathers dust . But I'm out at this point
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u/Shot-Needleworker-65 6d ago
Everyone has different tolerances for input lag. I'm middle of the road on it. The lag on TheC64 didn't bother me (at least, that I remember) so I'm not too worried about it here personally.
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u/Sir_Rolin_xbox 3d ago
Preordered! Been waiting for the RM version but not sure what's going on with it. Eventually getting both
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u/kurisu_1974 2d ago
Can't wait! The A400 felt a bit undercooked in comparison with my TheC64 Maxi and TheSpectrum and Atari 8-bit is my second favourite 8-bit system after MSX.
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u/Lente_ui 2d ago
Ok. Stupid question :
Does anybody know if this has an SIO port?
I know it has a couple of USB-A ports for flash storage and/or joysticks.
I know it has an HDMI port for A/V
But the SIO port isn't listed in the specs. Which leeds me to doubt that there is one.
Also it would need an emulated or replicated POKEY chip.
I still have the old 130XE in the closet. And the old 1050 drive. And the old Seikosha printer. I haven't touched them in years.
And a box of floppies. With things like River Raid, Alley Cat, Mercenary. And Turbo Basic XL 1.4 with DOS 2.5
And some cartridges, like Star Raiders, but also 6502 Assembler.
I've probably forgotten most of what I used to know. But Frank Ostrowski's Turbo Basic XL was a serious upgrade over Atari Basic.
All I'm saying is, it would be nice if the old 1050 could work with the new 800XL.
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u/Todd6060 2d ago
It won't have a SIO port, but you can load disk images, cartridge dumps, and XEX files on a USB stick. All of your games and software can easily be found online to download.
Pokey will be emulated.
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u/Lente_ui 2d ago
Ok.
But in my opinion, this is a missed chance.
If they can succesfully emulate a POKEY chip, then they can connect an SIO port.1
u/Todd6060 2d ago
The emulator (Coleen) already emulates Pokey so there's no extra cost for that. SIO would be an extra cost for hardware and also an extra cost to make the emulator work with SIO.
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u/Lente_ui 2d ago
Do you mean to say that POKEY is only partially emulated?
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u/Todd6060 2d ago
I don't know what you mean by partially emulated. Every Atari 8-bit computer and 5200 emulator emulates the Pokey, just like it emulates the 6502 processor, RAM, and other chips. These emulators are designed to run on modern computers, smart phones, etc.--none of which have SIO ports.
Some of these emulators have been around for 20+ years. They didn't build a new emulator for THE800XL; they're using an emulator that already existed.
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u/Lente_ui 1d ago
Well, if POKEY is fully implemented, then so is SIO.
All it needs is available pins to hook up to.I get that an extra port is extra cost and that they've chosen not to add it.
But if POKEY is completely functional, then adding an SIO port should be possible as a mod.
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u/matt_hendersonn 6d ago
Seems cool and all, but I won't hold my breath. We've seen this kinda thing in the past that went no where (Coleco Chameleon, anyone?) This feels like an opportunistic grab after the recent success of the newly revamped Commodore.
Would be cool; the 800 xl still remains one of the most attractive computers, in my opinion.
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u/SaintLewisMusic73 6d ago
Oh, this is definitely being released
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u/matt_hendersonn 6d ago
I must've been looking at another site earlier, I see the pre-order price now.
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u/VirusKooky1452 3d ago
What a joke... Man... This company... Selling the same machine as the 400 mini for double the price... Lol
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u/Speedstar_86 6d ago
Take all my money!!