r/WonderWoman • u/SHAD0W-W0LF-114 • 1d ago
I have read this subreddit's rules Discussed why Trinity is a failed concept that needs to be retconned out. Also discussed why DC should stop giving Wonder Woman kids, she doesnt need them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0yODhdyLXE12
u/Maleficent-Tie6098 22h ago
In all the excerpts I’ve seen of her, Trinity is more of a Super Sons character than a WW character. And I’ll never say something like that “Diana doesnt work as a mom” because I’ve been proven wrong about that kind of thing before. Lizzie just needs to be better included into Diana’s stories.
Jon Kent works because it shows us a version of Superman’s upbringing where he actually had a super powered parent to help him with his powers and to pass on his lost heritage
Damian Wayne works because it shows Batman’s humanity as he tries to help this demon assassin be given the chance to have life, and to highlight that there’s more to being Batman than having elite training or a bloodline connection
I can’t really tell you what new perspective Lizzie offers to Wonder Woman’s life beyond her love for Steve Trevor, so until they do more to fix that… yeah I’d consider her a failed character
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u/Charles12_13 19h ago
As a Lizzie fan, I can’t agree more that Trinity lacking connections to her own mother is like the most glaring issue about the character and needs to be solved ASAP.
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u/brucebananaray 16h ago edited 16h ago
To be honest, has any Wonder Girls have real connections or have any meaning to Daina.
What Donna was a mistake by the writer because he thought that teen Daina was a different character. Donna is mostly a Titans character less of Wonder Woman character. Which is a bit funny because she is the young sister Daina. You would assume there be a lot of stories of Daina taking care nd training her in their young years. Majority of her important stories are tied with Titans.
Cassie started as Wonder Woman character, but swifted more to be a character for Young Justice and Teen Titans like Donna. Her major developments is with those teams. They barely do anything with her in Wonder Woman stories. Just like Donna, she is reliant if there is a new Young Justice and Titans books. Compared to other sidekicks like Tim, Bart, and Connor that are far more integrated in their lore.
You have Yara. She was created by 5G and supposed to be newest protégé of Diana. Yet, they barely interact and never given an actual reason why would Diana trained her. Hell, solo series is barely connected to Diana. You could give her a different title than Wonder Woman and her solo series will still played out the same. Hell, there has been other characters that taken the mantle of Wonder Woman and never been a Wonder Girl like Artemis.
Yara major storyline in Wonder Woman was under Tom King and that's it. Now like other Wonder Girls that she is tied to Titans.
Trinity was going to happen, regredless of King, with a different wrtier or editoral to give Diana a child due to Batman and Superman has one. Trinity just take the tradition of other Wonder Girls to fit with other male sidekicks.
All the Robins are important to Batman and have major stories like Death in Family, Dark Victory, Batman & Son, Lonely Place of Dying, etc.
Also, all the Kid Flshes, Speedys, Aqualad, Superboys, etc. have far more stronger connections with their mentors and importantance to their respective mythos
Wonder Girls aren't important at all to Wonder Woman. Majority of Daina popular and respective runs don't have any of Wonder Girls. It shows on how little Wonder Girls aren't integrated well in Wonder Woman mythos.
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u/Lady_Gray_169 11h ago
Yeah, it's an interesting throughline for the title. Diana's just never seemed to fully mesh with having a sidekick for some reason. Which honestly is kind of weird, because with how much sisterhood is a theme for her character, you'd think having her play a big sister role would be pretty natural. But no, they've never really managed to make a Wonder Girl fit, despite loads of other characters getting sidekicks that stick with them conceptually. I wonder why.
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u/Greedy_Switch_6991 1h ago
Gonna have to push back a bit on the Yara spiel. Yara's solo led directly to the Trial of the Amazons event, and Yara had a major role in Conrad & Cloonan's final arch right before Tom King's run.
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 3h ago edited 3h ago
While I agree with your points there are opportunities going forward, post-Tom King, on the perspective She brings to the mythos.
Namely, a new idealism among the Amazons, with a new life. The same way baby Diana brought to the island when Hippolyta made her out of clay. Maybe being the first baby on Themyscira, not born from the well of souls, but being born half out of man, offers more to the reconciliation of Amazons to Patriarch’s world.
There’s also the matriarch legacy. Just as we saw Hippolyta train Diana in Amazon ideals in the past, now we can see Diana do that in the present. As Hippoyta has now ascended to godhood, it’s Diana now in the teacher/adult role.
And I know the “Hippolyta as the golden age Wonder Woman,” is an idea that’s unpopular around here. But it’s more or less used in DCcomics current continuity.
So play in to that.Hippolyta as the past (crone), Diana as the present (mother), and Lizzie as the future (maiden). The whole 3 faces of the triple goddess. Representing a woman’s life cycle in pagan mythology.
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u/Effective_Cook6978 22h ago
May not be popular…but…let’s hold off on retcons again. Give the next writer a chance before we start tossing things out the window.
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u/LoveIsVolcano 17h ago
I feel like retconning her out would just restart the cycle of Wonder Woman's world getting soft reboots every time a new writer steps on board. So I say keep her and see what they can do to integrate her into the cast.
Admittedly, I've dropped the book in the mean time but I feel like it would be easy to sideline her from the narrative, outside of the occasional appearance. I mean, she's a baby. She's not gonna do much. Just have her be raised on Themyscira away from danger and say that Diana is there when she can be.
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u/Lady_Gray_169 10h ago
I agree. Retconning her would be a mistake that just feeds into what I personally consider the biggest issue with Wonder Woman stories writ large.
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u/Charles12_13 1d ago
Honestly I love her comics so she can stick around, but in a Moon Girl style as a comic aimed specifically at young kids and DC will sell those like crazy
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u/ProfessorWright 23h ago
Honestly yeah, I think she has great market potential for a younger audience
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u/Artistic-Turn2612 18h ago
She's only been around for 3 years, give her at least 5 before we call for her execution.
I'd at least like to see how another writer handles her character.
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u/ThatManSean14 1d ago
I disagree and unless King himself is the one to do it at the end of Wonder War, I don’t think they’re going to retcon her out. Just have to hope the next writer either does better with her or that they make Steve do the tradwife thing and he’s the one who stays home to raise her off-panel.
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u/Charles12_13 23h ago
Well said. Tho Diana could find another partner (maybe a woman who knows) as Steve is currently dead (and in current canon he kinda needs to be dead for Lizzie to even exist), but Lizzie is in dire need of more connections to her mother’s cast
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u/ThatManSean14 23h ago
I agree about Lizzie needing more connection to her mother’s cast. I was just saying if the new writer doesn’t want to write her, they have options beyond retconning her existence. And I’d love for Diana to have another partner (particularly a woman) but I’m pretty sure Steve is alive again. At least, I think he is in the Wonder War future stuff and that’s going to carry over to him just returning to the present. Again, maybe King writes out Lizzie himself but I doubt that because I think he created the character for his daughter, so she might just keep existing, paradoxes be damned.
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u/Charles12_13 19h ago
Yeah he’s alive in the future but that won’t be true for a while (damn you, complicated timelines!), like at least until Lizzie is 20 as of current canon
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u/ThatManSean14 19h ago
I think they just bring future Steve back to the past and Lizzie just exists as a paradox. Like with how much the run has become about King glazing Steve Trevor, after their reunion in the last issue, I sadly can’t see him keeping Diana and Steve separate again…
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u/Charles12_13 19h ago
Let’s hope his run ends in the future and the next writer can just get back to the present and actually do stuff that matters
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u/mr_mxyzptlk21 21h ago
No thank you.
Her solo outings and dueteragonist lead in the new books are good.
I have a whole theory on why heroes are getting kids nowadays, and I think it's a natural growth, and one that isn't often addressed in comics enough.
Irrational hate to an author based on what they may or may not have done IRL is no reason to toss out good ideas they've come up with because you have a grudge.
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u/Rogthgar 1d ago
I'd agree with the headline... IF WW could start treating and featuring Cassie and Donna to the same degree Batman and Superman feature their offspring/protege's.
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u/Forward_Being_9475 23h ago
I don’t feel like there is a need for Trinity.
I would find an alternate future comic with Trinity part of a new Titans type team could have potential.
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u/sacredknight327 1d ago
I think with the success of the Absolute verse and knowing that's going nowhere anytime soon, the idea of kids is just going to become more prominent in the Prime Earth line, as opposed to less. It's why, despite not being very successful, that I lean toward Trinity sticking around. I don't say that with supreme confidence, but again, just where I'm leaning. There's another place now for younger, unfettered incarnations of these characters. So moving more forward into the arena of family and the like is something I wouldn't be surprised to see more of.
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u/Sea_Awareness8751 23h ago
I personally like trinity. She’s a breathe of fresh air and I like her team up with Damian and Jon.
Her adventures with Jason Todd is one of my favorite DC stories. It was a good fan service.
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u/Important-Cry4782 21h ago
Trinity was a good idea but Tom King made it the mother of all poor executions.
Which is standard for him.
Then again, Wonder Woman suffers A LOT in both comics AND Animated series
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u/Charles12_13 19h ago
I think the idea was well executed in some aspects (e.g. Lizzie’s solo stuff) but absolutely terrible in others (e.g. most of the stuff in Diana’s book). I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets relegated to a more goofy sphere of the DC universe for the time being
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u/AymanMarzuqi 22h ago
I am personally in the camp of thinking its ok for Diana to have a kid but to make it more interesting, she should have a son instead of a daughter. That could lead to some more interesting dynamic between WW and her child. Because her entire core identity is deeply related to the ideals and virtues of womanhood. Not to mention, she grew up in a society without any men. So putting her in a position where she has to raise a future man from her own blood makes for more interesting drama and character exploration
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u/Charles12_13 19h ago
I feel like that concept wouldn’t be interesting for that long, vs what Lizzie can bring to the table by being both an Amazon, growing up partly on Themiscyra and considering the other amazons her sisters, while also growing up really close to Jon and Damian and considering them her brothers. One of Trinity’s current glaring issues is how she’s currently disconnected from the rest of Wonder Woman’s mythos, and I feel like this would be even worse if you give Diana a child she can’t even bring to Themiscyra, making the child unable to see most of his extended family
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u/TubezTheOne 19h ago
In my opinion, Diana shouldn't be a mom. She is more the cool aunt figure than a mom figure. Hell the fact that we didn't get a story way sooner of Wonder Woman babysitting Jon & Damian while Bruce and Clark were on a double date is criminal imo.
Trinity never felt like she even belonged in WW's orbit. She was just an excuse for Tom King to write more Batman & super sons. He didn't even want to write for Wonder Woman & the longer it went on, it showed.
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u/Deviknyte 1d ago
Nah. She's a great addition. I wish they hadn't aged Jonathan up so the young Trinity were close in age.
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u/King871 1d ago
Im fine with the idea of Trinity I just wish she was an actual character. There are many super hero kids who are defined by their relationship with their parents but have their own personality and traits, usually an aspect of their parents but distilled and amplified. But I couldn't name anything about Trinity.
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u/CelestianSnackresant 23h ago
Really? Did you read her mini-series?
Aside from basic superhero kid stuff (headstrong, struggles with her weighty legacy) she's also curious, a daydreamer, and doesn't do well with hard decisions.
There's also a lurking sense of power there—the triple lassoes thing.
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u/ProfessorWright 23h ago
I think that she was supposed to get much more page time and development before Kings run got shortened due to his DCU commitments. As it stands we were kinda just shoved into the Wonder War without getting to know about Trinity. I only really care for her because Diana and Steve care for her, and I care about them.
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u/AdvantageAwayNow 21h ago
Yes the Bat-boys are well planned and have their own identities. Can’t say the same for any of the Kryptonians though.
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u/Charles12_13 23h ago
She has a tiny bit going with her many insecurities and daddy issues. As a toddler, she’s… well, she’s a 4 y-o behaving like a 4 y-o and that’s what I find super entertaining and what, from what I’ve read on the subreddit, young kids also like
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 3h ago
She’s a 4 year old daddy’s girl is the problem. She doesn’t act like a girl raised by an Amazon.
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u/Charles12_13 3h ago
She’s 4. She’s a kid doing kid stuff, give her a break. I don’t think the amazons would train her from childhood like the Spartans. Plus, Diana raised her in Man’s world as well, so she in part behaves like a normal kid
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 3h ago
But that’s the rub, isn’t it?
She acts like any normal 4 year old girl. Not one acting like she’s been raised by Wonder Woman.
She acts like Diana gave her to a middle age couple in America to be raised, until she returns to her at 4 and tells her she’s her real mother.Now if her past was like Jon Kent’s, where Clark and Lois raised him during his earliest years as a secret, without telling them their secret, I could buy it.
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u/Charles12_13 3h ago
I don’t think kids so young would act that differently if they’re raised in any loving and caring environment, regardless of culture. I mean, how much differently would you write her to show that her mother is Wonder Woman? I think a child full of life, happiness and childish innocence does fit with Diana (plus kid characters actually acting like kids are rare in themselves, more often than not they act too mature for their age, almost like mini adults)
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u/Big-Personality-4063 1d ago
get trinity out but bring in Hippolytus for that good tragedy and drama
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u/Whole_Dimension5345 1d ago
The tragedy is that he is a sexist prick.
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u/Big-Personality-4063 1d ago
yes thats why its tragedy he is in fact not superman nor perfect
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u/Whole_Dimension5345 1d ago
So he’d be a villain like Hercules.
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u/Big-Personality-4063 1d ago
child molester vs kid who made a mistake and said something sexist after his stepmom tried to groom him 😭 coughing baby vs nuclear bomb
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u/Whole_Dimension5345 23h ago
For one, Phaedra didn’t groom Hippolytus. She was cursed to fall in love with him immediately, there was no grooming involved. Second, Hippolytus was sexist before Phaedra ever fell in love with him. To him all women were deceitful whores and were truly evil. Third, he didn’t make any mistake, other than cursing and insulting a goddess and all her followers. The thing that literally never ends well for anyone. So if you ask me, he kind of had it coming.
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u/Big-Personality-4063 21h ago
dont really have evidence for him ALWAYS being sexist that kinda specific and you know hat i mean
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u/Embarrassed_Sale_293 1d ago
Technically neither did Batman but here we are. Trinity is just not well written but Diana having a child with Steve Trevor can work if it done well
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u/MiserableOne6189 22h ago
If anything, it wouldn't be that hard for the next writer to brush Trinity under the rug. Because King tied Trinity so much to Alternate Timeline stuff that a writer can make a solid justification that it happened in another universe. (Which is a step up from 'It was all a dream' like that one time.)
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u/LopsidedUniversity30 3h ago
Diana has the baby. So the baby will at least stay on paradise island. The time traveling 4 year old Lizzie, Pre-teen Lizzie and older teen Lizzie are the problems on what to do with them post-Tom King.
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u/MiserableOne6189 1h ago
Staying on Paradise Island is pretty much a good way to have the baby Trinity out of the picture. Pretty much one of the common ways a comic writer has a child character be 'Put on a Bus'. Just having the character be somewhere else.
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u/nuclear_bone 23h ago
There are two major problems with Trinity that aren't there with Jon and Damian.
First of all, Wonder Woman gets only one mainline book unlike Batman and Superman. So if some fans don't like Daminan or Jon, and just want to read solo adventures of their favorite superhero, they have the option for that every month in other books.
Wonder Woman fans don't have that luxury. If they don't vibe with Trinity, there isn't anything else they will be getting.
Another issue is Trinity's concept is heavily connected to Damian and Jon. At this moment, she has interacted way more with Batfamily than with Wonder Woman's world. She was created primarily to be the sister to Super Sons who just happens to be Wonder Woman's daughter.
So it gives an excuse to future writers to treat Wonder Woman book as a stealth Super Sons (or Batfamily) book. Like Tom King himself is guilty of. Given how DC writers treat Wonder Woman, there is a legitimate concern that Trinity can be a means to sideline Diana in her own book to favor male superheroes.