r/WarDogs • u/EpikJustice • 22d ago
Discussion & Feedback Anyone noticed more hate speech / political extremism compared to other milsim games?
Look - I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, and I'm not trying to police people's opinions/politics.
I know this is a milsim-inspired game, and so the player base is going to lean towards people interested in the military, war, guns & the history of those things - and that might lean towards a more politically conservative crowd - and there's nothing wrong with that. I've been a big fan of the milsim genre most of my gaming life, and have spent plenty of time in ArmA, Squad, Post-Scriptum, Hell Let Loose, Rising Storm: Vietnam, etc.
One thing I've noticed since WarDogs launched is a fairly high prevalence of stuff like clan tags, player names, or in-game chat that is either hinting at, or straight up, related to hate speech or political extremism. I've seen a pretty wide array of explicitly offensive clan tags, player names, or in-game speech. Clan tags like [RAPE], [NGR], etc. I also see a lot of references to online alt-right / hate subcultures - for example, clan tags like [GOY], [CHUD], [MEN], [CUCK], [WHITE], etc. Also, just generally politics-related stuff that isn't necessarily hateful/offensive, but sometimes at least purposefully controversial - [TRUMP], [KIRK], [IDF], [FJB], etc.
Also - it's an online game, I'm not surprise to see lots of dumb shit in the in-game chat - but I see a fair share of slurs & "edgy" stuff flying around in the text chat. Some games just have edgelords going back & forth the whole match instead of playing the game.
I'm also not talking about silly in-game roleplaying - I think stuff like players in a Vietnam game saying stuff like "GI go home!" or referring to helicopters as "skydragon", etc. is all just relatively harmless fun that often adds to the experience.
I'm used to some amount of all of this in other milsims - but the volume of such things seems perhaps higher than I'm used to. I'm sure that some of it is also due to the massive influx of players the game has seen - most milsims I've played have much smaller communities that trend towards older gamers. The game has probably attracted a lot of players that would normally stick to CoD/Battlefield, or are very young, etc.
I can ignore all this stuff - it's a relatively minor impact on my enjoyment of the game... but I do think that what is/isn't allowed/enforced by the game moderation has an impact on the overall vibe of the community. Just as an anecdote... I once joined a popular private WoW server before WoW Classic was a thing, hoping to relive some of my childhood memories of the game. In terms of performance, lack of P2W, player population, etc. - it was a well-run WoW server - but there was pretty much 0 moderation. The global chat was just absolutely filled with completely vile shit - like just as bad, if not worse, than the kind of banter I'd see on /b/ as a teenager. I tried to ignore that - but I noticed that even beyond the offensive shit in the global chat, the server was just filled with unfun assholes that made it a miserable experience to play - so I stopped playing pretty quickly. Not a big surprise for a private WoW server - and maybe it'd have been filled with a bunch of unfun people even without the hate speech - but I do think that allowing extremist speech/messaging to run amok unmoderated does scare away whatever chance you have of attracting "normal" people to your community, leaving you with a bunch of anti-social, miserable, generally unfun people to play with.
Just curious if any other milsim veterans have noticed a difference in the community/speech we've seen thus far in WarDogs vs other milsim/milsim-inspired games, or if I'm just noticing it more than usual for some reason?
I know that the devs may not have expected or been prepared for this volume of players, and moderation is a hard problem to solve and it can be tricky to find the right balance, and I don't expect any changes overnight - but personally, I'd like to see a bit more moderation around clan tags/player names/text chat/voice chat/etc., to foster a fun, cooperative & at least not overly off-putting community.
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u/RAGE_QUEEFER 22d ago
Its exactly the same as other milsim games with an adult player base. Imo If you cant consume the content without a safe space you can allways turn on streamer mode to hide the bad words and mute all so you dont hear any.
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u/Guilty-Guarantee-212 22d ago
ofc only logical option gets downvoted on reddit hahahaha i swear this platform is being memed to death for many reasons
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u/Thecoldflame 21d ago
i take it you do not belong to a stigmatised minority group?
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u/RAGE_QUEEFER 21d ago
Could you name a group that isn't stigmatized? I am a middle aged black male. I am in the most racist minority group on the planet. Have you heard our music? Do you know any black people? We love the N word its our favorite word. Do you know what we call the Chinese man that lives a few doors down or owns the food joint on the corner? Do you know what 90% of us calls the white mailman that drops our mail off every morning? What I do see if young always young non minority mostly white kids allways talking about somebody else being racist etc etc etc. In turn doing the most to keep true racism alive and thriving in America. Words are words there nothing more than sounds. When you're people have experienced actual racism and its cost them there lives. A dumb ass kids saying some dumb ass words is comedy not racism or any other title young white kids wanna give it. Is that an Efficient enough answer for you @Thecoldflame ?
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u/LongjumpingTeach8501 17d ago
Not gonna comment on your post as I don’t got time to read that but hilarious name
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u/tiddeeznutz 11d ago
Somebody forgot to log out of their “I can’t see race” account before trying to post from their “What’s up, fellow kids” black account, I see.
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u/EpikJustice 22d ago
I've been on the internet long enough that I'm used to sharing it with morons. Doesn't mean I don't notice them smearing their shit all over the wall and stinking up the place.
FWIW, it's always funny seeing "safe space" comments in response to people who don't want to deal with morons in a public space. People keeping their opinions to themselves like adults and actually focusing on playing the game isn't a "safe space". A "safe space" is where you get to be the main character and make everyone listen to whatever oh-so-important shit you have to say when they're just trying to play a game, without any consequences.
To put it another way - if I go into a movie theater and start yelling my head off, I'm rightly getting kicked out of there so everyone can continue to enjoy the movie in peace. On the other hand, let's say a teacher has a class of special needs 4chan users who can't keep their mouths shut or sit in their seats and haven't taken a shower or changed their underwear in over a month, and they really wanna see the new Minecraft movie - so the teacher reaches out to the movie theater manager and arranges a private screening of the movie for these intellectually disabled children. They get to watch their movie and yell and scream and slobber to their heart's content, without getting kicked out or punished. That's a safe space. Skid Row is a safe space for drug users. No person not addicted to drugs wants to spend time there.
We all have to share public spaces with each other - whether that's a physical space in the real world, or a virtual space in a video game. That doesn't mean we should or have to let everyone do whatever they want. Public spaces have rules/norms so that the public can enjoy them in peace. Getting rid of or not enforcing those rules/norms is how a public space goes to shit.
So right now, with minimal/inadequate moderation or consequences for what people display or communicate in the game, we have a "safe space" for dumbasses. Moderating shit that 99.5% of adults without an intellectual disability have no interest in seeing while they're trying to enjoy the 3 hours they have between work & sleep, is just... good for the game.
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u/RAGE_QUEEFER 21d ago
A game server isn't a public place as a privatized entity owns it and if there breaking rules surely that owner will handle it. In the mean time or if you cant handle the rules or if it hurts your feelings then there's protections in place "safe space" that allow you to get away from those things. Just use them and dont stress
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u/EpikJustice 21d ago
A movie theater is also a "privatized entity" where a bunch of strangers sit in a room together.
I really didn't think I had to explain the concept of a place (physical or virtual) where strangers congregate in close proximity such that what they do can be seen or heard by others. I'd call that a "public space", you can call it whatever you want. I guess the term "shared space" is more appropriate? Can you accept that term?
I could wear ear plugs or close my eyes in a movie theater if the people in front of me took off their clothes and started licking each other and moaning. Or they could just not do that and we could all treat each other with respect.
Yeah, good to call out that the game has mute functions and streamer mode. I prefer the game without using those, but that doesn't mean I forfeit my right to make suggestions or even complain. That's what discussion posts on the game's subreddit are for.
And yes, the devs can set whatever rules they want. It's their game. Maybe they decide we're only allowed to speak in Chinese. My suggestion is that they moderate speech promoting hate or violence. You can suggest that every sentence has to start with a slur.
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u/RAGE_QUEEFER 21d ago
Theres rules against that in a movie theater. Theres no rules against it in this game server. Your essentially campaigning here to make rules that suit your needs. Because you have been taught to feel passionate about these things ot seems. When they already have a mute button to give you a safe space from the mean people. Also there's private servers or maybe coming soon not sure. Where you can make the rule set however you want and have a larger safe space for like minded individuals to congregate.
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u/Beetlelarva25 4d ago
Pretty sure it's against TOS on most multiplayer games and you can be banned for it, so yes, it is "against the rules".
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u/LeavingSoonBye209 17d ago
Blah blah blah, ultimately what you're asking for is a crackdown and censorship. If you don't like it just mute all VC and be done with it.
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u/DysAlanS 22d ago
Yeah, I notice that, but with steams lack of moderation for names, and the game not having filters. I just mute and report. If it bothers me too much I just go to a different server. Alternatively I think turning on streamer mode will change everyone's name to something less troublesome.
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u/kuburas 21d ago
Which region are you playing on? Im yet to notice anyone say anything heinous on EU servers honestly. I've seen a handful of people get pretty toxic but nothing racist or political, just calling people names for killing them/losing.
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u/ValuableLobster8193 21d ago
yep and sadly all it is a mirror of the current landscape we find ourselves in.
We, the west, kinda said never again after the 1940s, but this type of politics is rearing its head again.
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u/LordLonghaft 22d ago
More players = more shitter players. There's a lot of people playing right now. When they leave, many of the rats will leave with them.
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u/Zeverai_ 22d ago
“relatively minor impact on my game”
>types out full Sweet Baby INC dissertation<
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u/EpikJustice 22d ago
Sweet Baby INC
Is this some loser gamergate lore? lmao
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21d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/EpikJustice 21d ago
But you're obviously fine sharing your own political views in mean ways.
No, I think everyone should keep their politics to their self in a video game that isn't about those politics - the same way people wearing political shirts at a non-political event just look like doofuses. I guess if you made a video game where people duke it out over politics, you can go wild there.
A discussion post on a forum about a topic is an appropriate place to... discuss the topic that was brought up. You can give me all the opinions you want related to the topic of this post here, or you can go make your own post about whatever you want to discuss, and then people can reply to that. I may disagree with you, or even judge you,- but it's totally fine to give your opinions on the topic at hand.
FWIW, I suppose I didn't make this totally clear in my OP - I don't think that vaguely political stuff, like the [TRUMP] or [IDF] or [OBAMA] tags, should be banned/disallowed. I may laugh at the people with them and even complain about them, but they're mostly harmless. Limiting things like that is something that's better left as a social norm, rather than an official rule. However, I'd like to see things that are either explicitly, or are referencing, hate/violence, or extremist groups that promote hate/violence, be disallowed. I don't think that's too much to ask.
You are most likely the one being annoyingly political in games.
I can't speak for others, but personally, I don't say shit in games. I just play the game. I rarely use voice or text chat, except for game related purposes (like calling out a target or w/e). Again, that doesn't mean I don't notice others pushing their shit. I don't know what the "left-leaning" equivalent to calling someone the N-word or F-word is, but I personally haven't seen anyone do that in WarDogs. Oh, I did see someone get killed and then in proximity voice chat they were like "YOU HAVE NO CLASS! NO CLASS!" - does that count as left-leaning hate speech? I guess it's kinda pretentious. I also haven't noticed any left-leaning clan tags or player names in the game - I guess I'll keep an eye out for them and let you know if I see any.
in mean ways.
if anyone made this type of thread about that stuff you would probably say super insulting things about them
It's kinda off-topic, but just to address my "meanness"... Yeah, I guess I don't really beat around the bush anymore about how I feel about things I think are dumb/bad. I used to try to be gentle and win over "the other side". Unfortunately, over the last 10 years or so, I've come to the conclusion that that doesn't work. The alt-right extremist ideologies that have grown over the last 2 decades thrive on "polite discussion" and being given "equal opportunity". Ridiculing these ideologies isn't meant to sway the people already taken hold of by them - it's just to shut down any chance they have to push their agenda & maybe show how silly they are to people who might be vulnerable to them. IMO, the best way to fight mass organized ignorance from taking hold is through laughter & ridicule. All that's neither here nor there, though...
And if people had trans flags in their names
Sorry, but just one thing we're going to have to disagree on... I don't think physically being something qualifies as politics... like some people have black hair, some people have blonde hair. Some guys like girls, some guys like guys. Sometimes a guy is born with a penis, sometimes it's more complicated than that. Some people are born in the United States, others are born in China.
Someone with a username like "BigGayMike" isn't any different than someone with a username "SexyGinger". "TransTony" isn't different then "ProudTexan". And showing pride for the things that we intrinsically are isn't political. There's nothing inherently political or offensive about being gay or trans - it's just... the way someone is.
Like, IDK how to get this across... "I don't think women should be able to vote" is not equivalent to "I'm not ashamed of who I am".
I think a better comparison of a "left-leaning" equivalent would be something like being pro-life/pro-abortion-rights, or pro-gun control, or pro-billionaire tax, or pro-universal healthcare, or pro-affirmative action, or pro-employee ownership, etc. Whether I agree or disagree, keep that shit to yourself outside of places where it's relevant.
Hate/bigotry/prejudice/misogyny, etc. != politics; it's just hate. Who you are as a person != politics, nor does being proud/not ashamed of who you are.
But that's just, like, my opinion, man. Feel free to disagree.
Anyways, the main reason I made the original post is on the very tiny off chance the devs see posts like this and go "Oh yeah, maybe we should give some priority/resources to enhancing in-game community moderation".
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u/ValuableLobster8193 21d ago
These people think trans people and LGBT people are inherently political. They have been moulded to think that so any discussion on thier existence is just a "political debate" and there fore fine with it being eradicated.
Its like trying to turn the fact we go around the sun into something that can be debated even with settled science
Its why the right label it the LGBT ideology or Trans or Gender ideology
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u/Dozer242 22d ago
Yes