Kitasan Black has become successful enough as a sire that future Kitasan stud posts, which mostly devolve into sex jokes, will be removed as spam. (Basically: the joke is being "retired" until further notice.)
Nah He was retired to stud in 2024. So basically his first foals were born in 2025 and they will start running as 2 year olds in 2027.
And well, this is still not really representative since for example Kitasan 2 year olds from 1st crop were not that impressive. So more or less 2028 is the real year when we will have some idea about how good Equinox foals are.
Lowkey already is if you consider the family relationships at all (which you shouldn’t for the purposes of shipping since they mostly aren’t related in universe)
Not really?
He was pretty good but mostly was top-1-2 because of insane quantity of mares, quality wise he was a step behind Kitasan.
His last crop seems to be the best one he had but some of his crops are like 1,2 AEI type of stuff.
He definitely would be near the top but probably not really the best, something like let's say Drefong.
I feel like 4th or fifth after Ramonu. She did still get 4 G1's and even though she never won anything past her Classic year, she did still place against strong competition like Romantic Warrior and Rebel's Romance
Well, it's a subproduct of how it's calculated.
Leading sire == in this year his foals won the most money.
In his first crops Kitasan had from 55 to like 90 foals, Duramente started with 200+ foals in his very first crop.
Ofc he would be ahead of Kitasan by just sheer number of them. And this is the reason why Kitasan wasn't leading sire yet more or less. His big crops where he covered some 170-250 mares are only now start running, current 3 year old one is the first one where he covered 170 mares, Duramente always covered from 170 to 300 mares.
And not only did Kitasan get less mares, he got lower quality mares on average. If you had a mare and wanted a Deep Impact-like pedigree for the sire side, you just sent your mare to Kizuna if you could afford him. If you couldn't afford Kizuna, there were a million other budget Deep Impactlings.
The fact that horses like Equinox, Sol Oriens, and Croix du Nord could emerge from this process is a feat of its own.
Although another side of Equinox is that Japan is now wondering if King Halo was underrated as a Broodmare Sire while he was alive.
3rd place should go to Kizuna. Epi progeny kinda have better results in G1 races this year so far but Kizuna progeny are so good in anything that isn’t G1 race.
Eh, Epi is not there.
Current top-3 are Kizuna, Lord Kanaloa and Kitasan Black. Epi produces really great 2 years/3 years, but epitimer usually hits really fucking hard.
No. What made Sunday Silence exceptional and so valuable was his ability to be a sire of sires. Getting first and second at Tenno sho spring is great accomplishment but few sire have done it like Mill George (89' Inari One and Mr.Cyclennon) and Real Shadai (95' Rice Shower and Stage Champ). They were great sires but they were no Sunday Silence. All 18 horses in Japanese Derby be your direct grandson, like what Sunday Silence accomplished in 2011, is the level need to be achieved to be comparable to Sunday Silence.
I think what needs to be considered is that Silence wasn't just a good sire, he was also much needed genetic diversity in the Japanese gene pool. I don't think that any horse can compare to what he did because it isn't "necessary" anymore. Depending on how his first generations go, American Pharoah could be something similar.
The thing about sunday silence is not the diversity of genetic if so there should be hundred of brian time and tony bin or real shadai sireline running around today, it's the ability to make great horse and also sires which allot of them lack compare to sunday offspring are proven sires and reliable even his first crops compare to brian time and tony bin first crops, compare him to other local stock they all fell off after 1 generation unlike them SS Had SIRED like fuji kiseki, deep impact, gold allure, stay gold, heart's cry, daiwa major, special week dance in the dark, agnes tachyon, manhattan cafe, black tide, hat trick, and more. Compare it to other import this one is miles ahead than them and they had early start compare to him.
Are you talking about Sunday Silence or his kids? It's true Sunday Silence's kids (including Deep Impact) were merely very good in AEI/CPI but Sunday Silence was god like in that department as well. It was not the quality of mares that made him an excellent sire.
Sure but it helps having quality mares makes the chance for quality foals higher. My point is that they got that opportunity but that wasn't really available to many other stallions. Like look at the one's from Tony Bin, Opera House and Brian Time.
They had their share of good mares lol. Well, not from Opera House since TM Opera O owner had some problems with Shadai but do you really think that let's say Narita Brian didn't have his chances? Or let's say Jungle Pocket? Or others? Latter got placed in Shadai for almost 10 years and got fed all the good quality mares - and he was a decent sire, but nothing too outstanding. And it was more or less the best sire from Tony Bin. In general Nasrullah sire line isn't doing too hot in modern era and is mostly alive thru Pulpit->Tapit, everything else died out while he was the first big sire from Nearco.
Compared to Tony Bin / Brian's Time Sunday Silence genes somehow did pass better and it was the case even before Deep Impact more or less.
Tony Bin is a Shadai horse, why would anyone think he didn't get the top mares? His CPI is 1.99, that is higher than Northern Taste (1.81). Brian's Time (1.56) is about same with Real Shadai (1.54), while Opera House (1.04) is higher than Soccer Boy (0.91). Their AEI/CPI is about 1.2 which is excellent but that is lower than Deep Impact (1.50) and Stay Gold (1.34). Sunday Silence crush them all with ridiculous AEI/CPI of 2.31, though.
There was no one sire line dominating Japan when Sunday Silence was brought along for need of genetic diversity to be a consideration. If anything, need for genetic diversity is needed right now more than ever.
Isn't necessary???? My guy genetic diversity is needed more than ever since local Japanese breeders and even semi-large ones went too crazy with Sunday Man and his offspring making the inbreeding problem much much worse than it's ever been before. American Pharoah also isn't the only imported stallion, Ayadar (Frankel colt), Hukum (Sea the Stars colt), Westover (Frankel colt), Palace Malice (Curlin colt), Honor Code (AP Indy colt) just to name a few.
theres a reason why Japan are America's biggest buyers when the Fasig-Tipton sale comes, they need it, and with America still diverse genetic makeup compared to Japan and Europe they buy a lot of horses there to breed to the dominant lines there ( SS and Galileo )
On the Japanese side, all this could have been prevented had local breeders actually implemented bloodline theory and breeding theory instead of foolishly believing that just by breeding with SS or one of his colts their mares would give birth to powerful offspring. This same mentality killed most of Japans dam lines as well with only few like Dyna Carl and Kyoei March surviving.
Hope they learn this time, I also blame the Shadai boss somewhat for this, not the Yoshidas and their other farms managed by the other brothers like Northern Farms just specifically Teruya with his comments on long distance and endurance sires, of which Kitasan is if you look at his pedigree, and dirt horses. Every year he gets proven wrong btw.
I mean,Kitasan Black himself is SS line,that mean he is Sunday Silence sire line next page,not an entire thing new,it is far harder for a horse to achieve what Sunday Silence did,they literally has to breed Sunday Silence blood with Sunday Silence blood or ship mare from Europe, which the next successful sire if happen will also be Sunday Silence line😅
Kitasan nowadays is mating A LOT with european mares. Like 80% of 2025 foals of his are from european mares.
Probably because he has not much Northern Dancer blood in him, only Northern Taste being his great great granddad from dam line, so no inbreeding and in general the most proficient way of doing in in Japan is Sunday Silence sireline + Nothern Dancer damsire line.
Well, if you look at his 3 G1 winning progeny, yes, Equinox is from King Halo, but Sol Oriens in from Skia (french mare) and Croix Du Nord is from Rising Cross (GB mare). And Shadai imports a ton of mares for this exact reason (not for Kitasan in particular but to make all this SS + ND pairings).
What is really unfortunate for horse breeding in Japan was Mr. Prospector's sire line struggling to catch on in Japan. King Kamehameha did eventually breakthrough but early death for El Condor Pasa and End Sweep and whole War Emblem's saga was a major blow for Japan. If El Condor Pasa and End Sweep didn't die young and War Emblem wasn't a weirdo, Japanese thoroughbred landscape would have been very different and a lot more healthier.
If the Mejiros are the legitimate noblemen class family, and the Golds are the criminal underworld mafia family (Fenomeno notwithstanding), what does that make the Kitalings?
The middle class blue collar family whose dad is a retired pro?
It's because Kitasan himself came from rather humble backgrounds and was purchased for a pretty cheap price.
That + his running style (never doing anything flashy, but just trying to outsustain his opponents and continue running) meant that he was seen as a "working man's horse". It's why Kitasan is always seem helping people at the market street in season 3.
Kitasan was seen as symbolizing endurance and hard work to overcome ones poor background.
Kitasan was bought for peanuts and had absolutely 0 hype behind him for more than half of his career.
His ability as a sire also was questionable because of his whatever pedigree.
Equinox also was coming from what, unproven at that time Kitasan Black + some random daughter of King Halo, so not something really royal.
Kitasan was bought only because his owner really likes him, said the horse resembles his owner and he was bought extremely dirt cheap compared to his rival Satono Diamond. That meme image of Kitasan saying she's broke and don't any money is somewhat true, no one had any expectations for him because his bloodline at that time was meh and no one predicted what could have happened the next decade that followed and yet here we are, he is now the one of the richest horse with breeders paying any amount just to roll for a legendary foal.
Well until there appears another Kita-san owned horse that would even be tried as a sire it's pretty easy to call Black "the" Kitasan.
Especially since his sire Black Tide is still active and has a lot of kids, there can be a lot of misunderstanding otherwise.
Satono Diamond is an active sire though. Just got transferred from Shadai to a lesser farm and covers some like 30-50 mares/year. He is not that successful but definitely wasn't gelded.
Also I haven't seen anything about Cheval Grand being gelded either, it's just this sub memes.
oh also fun fact, as of news released from JRA, this pixel difference record only happen in one other instance. . . the Autumn Tenno sho between Vodka and Scarlet.
We are watching this cinema moment in history reappear before our very eyes
Kita shall stay Silent in his stable this Sunday, contemplating the life choices that led him to being dried like a raisin in retirement. A Deep Impact in both racing and sire history, and a proof of the Black Tide that is his power.
An Easy Goer cannot fathom it let alone have their retirement surely Affirmed when your progeny is too good. It is like munching some Seabiscuits in the Pacific while on raft then suddenly getting stung by a Man O’ War. Truly something went against what you asked for in the Wishing Well that you see God’s Halo by the time you retire from stud. By the way, my Secretariat just wrote this Sham of a stupid paragraph.
Kitasan will be a prune by the time he retires as stud, they may never retire him as stud and will be helping him when he is having a hard time to umapyoi.
One thing that Kitasan has going for him is that out of the breeding season he likes to run which obviously reduces probability of heart problems. If anything routine of mating in spring and running in autumn is probably the healthiest way to approach this type of job.
He breeds with less than 10 mares / year though. This is like your 70 year old grandpa still being able to get off some once/month - he wouldn't complain about it most likely.
The Stay Gold Clan is not very desirable right now because of the temperament problems, and because there are other better alternatives with less inbreeding
Now we wait for Takarazuka Kinen and if CdN enters and wins it's umapyover for Kitasan. First ever Spring Triple Crown champion would make both CdN and Kitasan legends.
So sad Basse Terre finished 11th in Satsuki Sho.. Got to witness it live but it was sad. I got funny looks at the race hyping for an underdog as a gaijin but I felt absolutely humiliated after the performance 😭
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Fun fact - compared to Equinox May of his 4yo season Croix du Nord made more money, won more G1s, ran on longer distance, scored a classic race and if he beats Takarazuka he will score a spring triple crown while Equinox scored double winter twice.
This dude might outclass Equinox and even win Arc this or next year.
Though for now my main concern is Victoria Mile where Kamunyak will run - Kamunyak is the last elite kiddo of Black Tide and while she's not Kitasan's full sister they both are grandchildren of Sakura Bakushin O meaning that Kamunyak might actually become pretty much a female Kitasan.
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u/masterfail real uma enjoyer fr May 03 '26
Kitasan Black has become successful enough as a sire that future Kitasan stud posts, which mostly devolve into sex jokes, will be removed as spam. (Basically: the joke is being "retired" until further notice.)