r/UlsterRugby • u/themutliangrybear • 2d ago
Let's Get Chatting When will it click for Ulster?
Obviously we can't really know.
Ulster cannot be building a game on only playing for 60 minutes, and I know no coach in a month of Sundays would ever set a team up like that, every single coach wants a full 80min performance where you attack and defend well.
I'm just frustrated that it seems so far this season that Ulster lack focus until pressure is built up to a point were it's impossible to come back from. I'll say that the Glasgow performance wasn't a 80 minute performance but they did seem actually focused on the task at hand in they game so there is that.
But that game against Munster was a hard watch, it really highlighted that Ulster don't have a leader or a player that can change momentum, Ulster really seem to compound mistakes with penalties, a top 8 URC side cannot have that. It seems that the whole team has to have that light bulb moment of "oh shit we can actually get something here", there isn't an individual who can arrest the game back into ulsters control. The team moves as a wave all together in one direction wether that's in good moments or bad.
I would also say that I'm not 100% sure I like ulsters defensive setup, I understand the idea of having as many men in the line as possible but I think that Ulster actually do have the forwards and Big Stu who can disrupt a ruck and knock a team out of their flow, they just don't seem primed or ready to do that?
Overall I feel like Ulster just need to click, something to trigger them to be hungry in defense. The parts are there for a great solid wee team that will give anyone a game on their day I rate these players pretty high I just want to see Ulster actually take a fucking lead and build on it and cut the stupid shit.
To caveat it all, Edinburgh seem a much better side than last year (still a fucking dreadful performance though) Glasgow performance was great and to actually come away disappointed that they didn't win says a lot, and Munster are also riding a bit of a positive wave so could say we caught them at a bad time. 3 games is hard to really make a judgement, after 5 seems a bit more fair but considering the next fixtures I'm not sure if the judgement will change.
I saw some comments about coaching after the Munster game. Do any of you think it's just something missing or a deeper issue with coaching?
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u/Little_Ad_9313 SUFTUM 2d ago
The worse thing is up next in the League we have the Bulls, Stormers & Cardiff away ... maybe Cardiff but think in a world cup year we will be lucky too come away with 2 points in the South Africa tour.
Cardiff is a 3G pitch so maybe we wont get stuck in the mud like last season when we played in Wales but again if we aren't on form that is a arm wrestle on who wins....
All of which means we could go 6 games in the league out of 16 without a win ...
Not to be Negative like ... but kinda the barrell we are staring down.
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u/greatsword_enjoyer 2d ago
Well, the ref better be bloody better than last year away at cardiff (which was challenge cup), I know we sent a 2nd string that time but to get cheated out of a win by a try in the 1st half scored through a hilariously forward pass pissed me off.
Tbf, literally all the games against welsh opposition last year the ref was out to get us in tandem with us being pish.
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u/Little_Ad_9313 SUFTUM 2d ago
I honestly felt like a WRU Conspiracy some of the reffing of the Welsh games ...
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u/TheNightmareChild 2d ago
I assumed they were trying to prop up the unions so that the WRU wouldn't cut one of them
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u/bloggs1690 2d ago
If Murphy selects Irish players for the challenge cup and then decides to rest them for the SA tour matches then that is on him, and him alone and he must face the consequences if missed points mean Ulster don’t finish in the top 8 again.
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u/Little_Ad_9313 SUFTUM 2d ago
Honestly, Zebre we could see a full bore team as he desperately needs a win ... as for South Africa he has to go full bore ... as I don't think theres too many who would have proved worthy for Irish Selection ...maybe McCloskey gets rested and Balacoune ... but no IRFU obligation too
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u/bloggs1690 2d ago
Anyone in the Irish squad will have to miss games.
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u/Little_Ad_9313 SUFTUM 2d ago
Considering alot of the Irish contigent was rested in the 1st 2 games ... and overall handling didnt look great would have thought they would bennefit from a few more reps ...
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u/ehwaht 2d ago
Who gives a fuck about the Challenge Cup, we could put out the kids and likely still get a home play off.
Murphy's selections continually backfire, the whole second half of the season showed that last year where he threw away Champions Cup rugby via the league. This season we've done the same, Donnell over Sheridan/Irvine, Moloney over anyone, Bello rested for Munster, McCann on the bench for Munster etc.
The guy isn't good enough as a head coach.
We're already on the back foot for the top 8, we've had 2 home games, one against Edinburgh who on paper on last season's form should be the second weakest side we play at home and another against a greatly weakened Munster team. 8 points over three games gives us 48 points over the season which is not enough to qualify for the top 8, add in that we still have to go to South Africa, play Leinster and Connacht twice, go away to Munster etc. We need to get shot of him so the season can be rescued as he is simply not the man to do it and a big win against Zebre will paper over the cracks for many and pressure cools and when are sitting on 10 points after 6 games people finally start to ask questions and it's too late.
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u/Little_Ad_9313 SUFTUM 2d ago edited 2d ago
Few things here, when I was talking about Zebre, I wasn't referring to what I would do but if we loose there it's basically our season ended and the rot is set in hence why I think he might go full bore.
On the Backline Selections Izzy, Timoney and Augustus looked serious on paper and Izzy at 6 was likely an IRFU mandate.
Although i agree McCann is our best player or atleast only player who stands up ...
I would argue Augustus and Izzy misfiring isn't on the coachs the players have to have a certain level of responsibility for there performances ... you could argue its the coaches job to motivate a player but in the case of Izzy you have Irelands starting Lock/6 opposite you go out and show you deserve his place should have been motivation enough.
Donnell over Sheridan/Hopes Baffles me tbh, Irvines Injured and also more of a tighthead lock ... but I can understand it may have been seen as a change too many with the Irish contigent coming back in.
As for not good enough to be head coach, the Jurys still out at the end of the day we have increased our Irish Involvement drastically and ultimately all the IRFU care about is Player development for the national team ... which he is doing ...
Think the biggest thing is getting our young props coming through and as much exposure to Dermody as possible would want to see Boyd and McClean follow McAllisters footprints ... as for McAllister switching sides not a fan of it ... but assuming thats Dermodys call as that is his department.
Was said elsewhere Murphy is a bit more of a Leo figure in terms of being a rugby director ... so maybe we need a bit of a shuffle in postions ... with defined roles.
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u/LowAnimator8770 2d ago
Agree, I said myself after the Edinburgh game if we win a league before Cardiff in December I’d be shocked.
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u/Ghibby58 2d ago
Great post! I think we have shown that when it clicks we can be great, but we still cannot put together an 80 minute performance and recently just find ourselves so deep in the hole that even getting a draw out of it is an insanely good result. I have massive concerns about our physicality on the ground and I think that could also be showing in how passive we have been in scrums as well.
I still believe in the lads and when we have a full strength team I can see us putting in great performances, I just hope that those performances are across the full 80 minutes.
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u/themutliangrybear 2d ago
Yeah I still believe in them too, last season's good performances didn't feel like a flash in the pan, it's more Ulster need the luck in keeping the bodies fighting.
Weird thing about scrums is I thought they actually went well first two games, not sure wtf happened the first half against Munster cause Munster absolutely do not have a good scrum
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u/greatsword_enjoyer 2d ago
Munster absolutely do have a good scrum. Since acquiring MVDM and Brookes, they competed very well with Glasgow and the Bulls at scrum time, i think they even won a few scrum penalties against the latter which is seriously impressive. On current evidence, they have one of the more dominant scrums in the league.
Having said that, I do agree that our scrum is improved. Against Edinburgh and Glasgow, we were mostly solid and if that had been last year's scrum we would have fared far worse. Bello has to be prioritised for the big games, and I imagine our first choice front row will be TOT, Stewart, and Bello.
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u/Little_Ad_9313 SUFTUM 2d ago
Kieran Brooks has really added to Munsters Scrum and Jack Aungier plus Van Der Merwe at hooker.
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u/greatsword_enjoyer 2d ago edited 2d ago
3 games is not a large sample size, but it appears that if we aren't the team that scores first we quickly compile errors trying to force it and just end up conceding more. It would be easy to just then say "score first then", especially considering we've started the last few games with 0 intensity.
Idk whether it's our warm up not doing enough or there not being a coach there to give them a proper ribbing and light a fire under their arse, but a change is needed rn.
A point which probably could be made is that we have still yet to see an actual full 1st choice team from us due to both injuries/availability, in which we would have some of our key motivators.
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u/themutliangrybear 2d ago
Yeah I really like the look of Benson, I think he has made a very good impression. But Hume loves a tackle and he probably is the organiser of defence so I can't wait for him to come back, he has the attitude you want, definitely drives players on
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u/greatsword_enjoyer 2d ago
Hume is essential, our defence always looks worse without him and he's also often good for a turnover or 2. Benson I very much want to see get a start at 10, hopefully against Zebre this weekend as we've already seen his attack and distribution is great, he takes the ball to the line, and he's probably the most physical ten on the island along with Crowley and Frawley.
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u/megacky 2d ago
Our two biggest issues are lineout and scrum. We don't have the biggest lads in the world, or the strongest, but we do have very very skillful hands across most of the team and exceptionally pacy runners. Bobby, Jacob, Lowry are all seriously rapid and Timoney up front is no slouch.
In order to bring those players into the game, we need a solid platform up front, which we just don't have at the minute. The reason we are getting wins, is because teams tire, they make mistakes, and we get loose scrappy ball turn overs and then make breaks. Last year, we really struggled for 5+ phase play, but first or second phase was lethal.
Our actual line defense was very good. Made a decent chunk of the tackles and kept them fairly side to side. The problem was we didn't contest the rucks, so we just had to wait for them to drop it or kick it. They didn't go anywhere, but equally, we didn't force them to do anything with it. When we did get it, it was either a lineout or scrum, which weren't guaranteed to be our ball on either. Same thing in the Edinburgh game (McKee's kicking and King's aerial game were fucked here)
I don't think our front 5 are that good in all honesty. Some good individuals, but as a whole, not good. EoS has been stealing a living for years, and to be fair to him, the past couple of games he was pretty good, but he was back to his characteristic deck chair against Munster. ToT moving across is indicative of that. We just don't have high calibre props. Tom Stewart is an excellent player, but his throwing is dodgy at times. I don't even think he's throwing it that squint, but his technique makes it look like he is, which doesn't help. Second row don't have huge bulk compared to a lot of other teams. We need a 135+kg lock in there and our lads are maybe 120.
Back row is another odd one. Lots of very good players, but outside of Timoney, none are real jackal threats. McCann maybe the exception. Been comfortably our best player this season so far.
If we had a semblance of a scrum, Munster get virtually nothing out of that game. And us defending for 50 minutes is fine as long as they don't get trys, especially as we have seen that we can score completely out of the blue. We're like France from 10 years ago. Madly talented, but a little bit bat shit. Sometimes we are sublime and other times, we are Yohann Huget
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u/Little_Ad_9313 SUFTUM 2d ago
... Think you hit the Nail on the Head ... I want to see Callum Reid & Jacob Boyd actually claim a jersey .. otherwise thats them being released I would feel.
Also wonder will Blake McClean get a run out worked well with McAllister to get minutes into young legs albeit McAllister played consistantly for Hinch at a higher level then McClean at Inst
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u/moltentom 2d ago
This. Something else that’s been plaguing us is the inevitable croc role or leading with the shoulder in the ruck type of incident that inevitably leads to us playing with 14 and shipping a try or two
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u/ILoveKebabs15 2d ago
I really hope it clicks for the rest of the season we have been doing poor even in preseason you could see the cracks but we just let it off as it was only preseason but now it’s coming into the league which is a problem I just hope we wise up our defence wasn’t good at all against Munster and whenever we did have the ball we let it go too many times and our ruck speed wasn’t at all good the breakdown needs a lot of work but of course you can see shimmers of great attack and defence and I just hope we can go back to winning ways
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u/Correct_Ad_2104 2d ago
2 things we need. Hume back fit as he is our one proper defensive general in the backs (hope Jude can grow into it) And I think if we had a proper total and utter bastard in the pack, not stupid penalty machine, but nails everything and everyone as hard as he can every fucking time, makes a mess of opposition rucks, and clears out our own like a rocket. I sat we give that role to Sheridan and tell him to empty himself for the first 50 then he gets a rest
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u/silverstu- 2d ago
Sheridan definitely is your guy for the hard bastard role. He is so abrasive and stubborn.
Thinking about the Glasgow game we had a few abrasive guys in the back row which may have helped - Bryn Ward, McKillop and McNabney . I thought initially against Glasgow we didn’t have that . Izzy is an amazing athlete but he needs paired with a couple of tough ball carriers to let him play his best game . (Might be wrong btw) McNabney coming on in the second half helped a lot against Munster as well as ToT and McAllister. Walker looks lively too.
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u/terenuregary 1d ago
There's been a lot of laziness and bad decision making by some of the players. Zak still thinks he can run down the touchline and not get bundled into touch. Flannery running a huge arc into a number of Glasgow defenders and then gets turned over (even though we had a numerical player advantage). And to that point of getting turned over, how many times did Munster turn us over the other night? It was farcical and incredibly frustrating from a supporters POV. Pre season showed some green shoots of recovery but unfortunately when the real games came around we resorted back to type again.
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u/itscalledravenhill SUFTUM 2d ago
Its well proven so far when it will click. 55min mark when down by 20 points