(Hated)changing somenthing to be more "progressive" ends up being a bad thing

[u/Morr4Seiya]

Now to be clear,i am not one of these "anti-woke" losers that complain some people exist,and i am also not the type to complain about changing somenthing in a new version or adaptation,however there are cases where it did ended up being a bad idea.

-In the anime of Cowboy Bebop there is the character Gren,despite being short lived the character is very memorable specially thanks to his tragic story.Basically his story was that he was a soldier from the titan war who was a great friend with Vicious(the main bad guy)after the war he was emprisioned thanks to Vicious who testified against him and he was forced to take a experimental drug that caused him hormonal problems,giving him a feminine appearence and even breasts.

In the Netflix live action,for some reasons they decided Gren was going to be non-binary,which wouldn't be a problem(some people believe he was gay in the anime)if it wasn't for the fact that they also removed all the nuances and complexities that made the character memorable and interesting,instead of a tragic war veteran that was betrayed and had his body changed against his will,Gren is just kinda there.

-The original Rugrats cartoon had the couple Betty and Howard,Betty was a big and masculine woman while Howard was a smaller and nervous man,it was a genuine interesting relationship that stood out from the other couples who were the standard straight couple.

In the new series however they replaced Howard with a woman named Trish,two things,first off why?What was the problem with having a woman being the stronger in a straight relationship?Second why does Hollywood seem to think that every tomboy or masculine woman is a lesbian?

Overall not the worst thing but it is jarring that they had a gender reverse roled that was progressive and decided that wasn't enough.

-Oh man,this one pisses me off the most so i am gonna have to break it down

So back in the late 80s and 90s there was this anime called Saint Seiya also knows as Knights of the zodiac,it tells the story of knights who fight for the Goddess Athena to protect earth,being divided in the golden,silver and bronze knights,the anime was a huge hit in latin america and Europe and while it floped in the US it still has a loyal fanbase.

Being a fan myself i can't recommend it enough,now granted the story does have a fair share of flaws,and that's because the author was honestly just making stuff up as he went along(also a lot of side characters are poorly used or even forgotten about)still it is a great story you should check out

But then a couple of years back Netflix got the rights and decided to a 3D reboot,in this reboot they decided to make the story more "american" to try to bring more american viewers,now i could go on and on a big rant about how that was a bad idea and the execution was so terrible that it made me want to strangle someone but this post is about one specific change.

So Saint Seiya has five main characters,those are Pegasus Seiya,Dragon Shiryu,Cygnus Hyoga,Phoenix Ikki and finally Andromeda Shun.

While the other four characters were the standard masculine and brute male characters who were always ready to throw punches,Shun was smaller,more sensitive and even feminine looking,a pacifist who didn't liked fighting,but don't mistake that for weakness because Shun was loyal to his friends and was extremely powerful.

Then Netflix decided to change Shun into a girl named Shaun.

So wait,you have a male character who goes against every male stereotype and you turn him into just another generic female character?

When asked about it,the showrunner Eugene Son said he made that change because there was no girl in the group and having a all boys group wouldn't be acceptable nowadays

First off that's not true because Athena was also part of the main cast,yeah she wasn't the fighting type but she still helped quite a lot in the story even saving the knights on several occasions,second if you wanted to add a girl to the main group why not use Marin or Shaina?Hell,if you were going to change the story anyway why not turn Seiya sister into a knight?

Thankfully this monstrosity was cancelled(so much for trying to bring more fans)

[u/Sagara-]

Shun is extremely painful because an important point about him is that he's -not- a manly man, but he's still incredibly capable and powerful, and that his "feminine" softness is not a weakness, but a moral strength of his.

Basically, turning Shun into a women is saying "if you're not manly enough, you're not a real man, actually."

Seriously, if they wanted to genderbent Saint in the main 5, Hyoga was the easy choice.. and if they wanted to bring their big boy pants on, they could have chosen -Ikki-, because -damn-, there's a lot that femIkki could unpack regarding a woman's station among warriors, from her training, to Esmeralda, to the female Saint mask edict, to her relation with her brother...

[u/ConcreteExist → u/Sagara-]

Seems like it would have been more interesting to gender-flip one of the more brutish characters.

[u/the_ghost_of_bob_ros → u/Sagara-]

Reminds me of how some people try to say that sam and frodo are gay, because they are not traditionally masculine (not physically strong/ express emotions) they put them in the traditionally gay box

[u/Iseedeadnames → u/Sagara-]

Aaah, shit, the lesbian Esmeralda story! That would have been something. And the association fire/strong woman is a trope that works quite well overall.

I'd still have picked Hyoga tho, it's definitely a better fit. It still doesn't solve the issue of "female saints need to wear masks", which can't be dropped without also dropping the mystery about Seiya's sister identity.

[u/SoniCanvasPost → u/Sagara-]

Also to note that in Saint Seiya universe, the chosen female Saints wears a mask as a reminder that they leave their past identities behind since being a Saint is a "male only invite" and the Saintias who are not wearing their mask would never leave the Sanctuary as they are exclusively Athena's servants(secretaries, kinda) that served both the Pope and Athena herself.

The female saints are almost like an allegory to being transgender(but being Asian means not everyone has the privilege to afford full transition) and anyone who finds out the "face" behind that mask needs to be killed at all cost.

[u/Iseedeadnames → u/SoniCanvasPost]

needs to be killed at all cost.

\coughs**

[u/SoniCanvasPost → u/Iseedeadnames]

That, or they can be trusted enough to be with the other person who wouldn't snitch about their face therefore must be devoted to them at all cost.

This was the type of dilemma Seiya had with Marin when he thought Marin was his missing sister.

[u/NiteHawk1138 → u/Sagara-]

I love the idea of a femme Ikki because of the frame of Ikki pulling the mask up and his hatred being felt. Being female and pulling the mask down with the intent to kill hits so hard for me.

Also having a big feral sister to protect small brother is visually fun.

I’ve never considered swapping Hyoga, and am curious how that would work.